Dinosaurs: Made In China

The bible is no tale of fae. It is historical record, albeit spotty at times. Likewise with the thousands of other mentions of Giants throughout world history and the direct evidence gathered by many cultures.

Ah yes, and you'd rather us believe in dragons I suppose.

The tracks you are referring to likely belong to the ancient race of giants or the behemoth.

The bible is no tale of fae.

Likewise with the thousands of other mentions of Giants throughout world history and the direct evidence gathered by many cultures.

Quote from: John Davis on March 25, 2020, 01:34:46 PM

Ah yes, and you'd rather us believe in dragons I suppose.

The tracks you are referring to likely belong to the ancient race of giants or the behemoth.

So you agree the tracksways were not made in China?

As professor Jack Horner is a personal friend, it would be lovely to get him to post on the forums or do an interview with us regarding dinosaurs. Wild romps with younger women aside, he is a very interesting person.

Silly?!

I am amongst the greatest living scientists of our age.

What is this a high school creative writing class?!

I suggest you learn the basics before you intend to talk of adult matters -- the time is up.

Quote from: John Davis on April 03, 2020, 02:03:36 AM

Silly?!

I am amongst the greatest living scientists of our age.

It's very easy to claim that. It's much harder to back it up if it's not true.

Can you provide something other than your own claim? Published scholarly papers? Prestigious awards?

A google search for John Davis scientist turned up no one that seemed likely to be you. Is that your real name? A google search for Richard Feynman scientist, on the other hand, had page after page after page of hits, as expected. That's hardly exhaustive research, but it would seem like at least something would turn up if you were truly one of "the greatest living scientists of our age". I remain unimpressed by your boast, for the moment at least.

BLACKOUT - John Eric Davis (Flat Earth Society)
A flatist for over ten years, John has been interviewed by several news sources including the BBC and Paste Magazine. His interviews have been featured on Bad Astronomer, Fox News, Radio, Print, and more. He’s a software engineer, a computer scientist, and enjoys epistemology and mathematics.

Flat Earthers: Dumb, Crazy or Just Free Thinking?
For centuries, a spherical Earth has been a scientifically accepted fact. Pythagoras first proposed a round Earth around 500 b.c. and since, most physicists, astronomers and philosophers have only expanded on this model.

Yet about 2500 years later, there are still many who believe Pythagoras was actually wrong. The Earth is undeniably flat, they argue, and the spherical model has been an attempt to mislead and take advantage of the general populace.

“If anything, the typical Flat Earther is somebody that wants to account for their beliefs through evidence and really take responsibility for them,” said John Eric Davis, secretary of the Flat Earth Society. “This is good as we’ve seen far too often the consequences of the opposite.”
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“Our diversity acts as a strength,” said Davis. “With it, we get to see lots of different angles of the larger argument. We have atheists, the very religious, engineers, scientists, and conspiracy theorists all engaged in discussion about a number of flat models – and some staunch-minded roundists trying their best to prove us wrong.”

Behind the Flat Earth community is Samuel Rowbotham, an English writer, who reintroduced Flat Earth-ism on a large scale in the 1830s with a 16-page pamphlet called Zetetic Astronomy. This was expanded into Zetetic Astronomy: Earth Not a Globe, a 430-page book with models and sketches of experiments to test the planet’s curve. He argued his book would take a more scientific approach though he also ventured that the round earth ideology was an attempt to replace and undermine religion in society.
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“It’s definitely true we are brushed off as ‘dumb’ or  anti-intellectual, but when you look into a lot of the literature there are some very interesting arguments even for non-believers,” said Davis. “I’m a computer scientist myself and a mathematician. Some of our other members are engineers, pilots, and other trained professionals. I imagine we are fairly even with the populace as a whole as far as our intelligence goes.”

Well, Google harder ! Look what I found:

Quote from: rabinoz on April 03, 2020, 06:50:34 PM

Well, Google harder ! Look what I found:

Very good! I didn't see anything in those about how great a scientist he was, though. There are these gems from that second link you found, however:

“I imagine we are fairly even with the populace as a whole as far as our intelligence goes” – Davis

"And while it’s unclear if the group is growing, Davis points to the number of celebrity and high-profile believers as proof that the Society isn’t going anywhere."

"Not going anywhere" is an obvious description of the notion that the earth is flat. It's been stalled as little more than an interesting relic from the long-bygone era when people couldn't travel very far in a lifetime, for thousands of years.

Dinosaur footprints have often been discovered in mines and railway tunnels, but they are rarely found in natural caverns. The tracks were a chance discovery by one of the authors on a caving expedition in 2015. It’s a wonder they were ever found, as they can be reached only by way of a labyrinth of tight, frequently flooded crawl spaces 100 metres in length.

Three trackways are preserved on the roof of the Castelbouc cave 500 m under the surface of the Causse Méjean plateau, southern France. The tracks are Bathonian in age (ca. 168–166 Ma), a crucial but still poorly known time interval in sauropod evolution. The three trackways yield sauropod tracks that are up to 1.25 m long and are therefore amongst the largest known dinosaur footprints worldwide.

Silly?!

I am amongst the greatest living scientists of our age. Your tongue should be stayed, young one. I never said all of them are made in China. By per happenstance per haps. Though in actuality - only a bit. I laid out where the others come from. It is but before your eyes to see. You should spend a bit of time reading the thread young one.

Like many of? If Mr. Davis's? Many of? As many of? In the same vein?

What is this a high school creative writing class?!

I suggest you learn the basics before you intend to talk of adult matters -- the time is up. We are learned men and we have little time for this sophomoric bullshit.

That certainly lends credence to Brother James previous ideas around dinosaurs as well as his experimental validation of them.

What does John make of the famous American Bone Wars or Great Dinosaur Rush?  This started back in the 1870s the main protagonists being Edward Drinker Cope and Othniel Charles Marsh. Most of the dinosaurs they discovered were from bone beds in Colorado, Nebraska, and Wyoming. Between them, they discovered over 136 new species of dinosaur. That's according to the recorded history of the time. The problem here is that John Davis would have you believe that all these early paleontologists ordered their fossils from China then had squads of Chinese laborers encase them in stone so that they could then be dug up!
I can't believe for one moment why someone would choose not to believe in something for which there is so much evidence. If he actually cared he could visit
https://ashfall.unl.edu     for himself and see with his own eyes.
Which would clear this topic up? Or does John honestly think that this museum ordered its fossil beds from China and then had them installed in secrecy? I've heard some ludicrous things in my time but this one almost takes the biscuit.

It might surprise many to know some of the history of dinosaurs.

The Beginnings of the Myth
Gideon Mantell claimed his wife Mary Ann discovered some unusual teeth - clearly not ready to accept the blame of his own forgery. Once he gained fame for this, he then took credit in 1851. Claiming them to be of a giant crocodile. Mantell also unearthed a largely incomplete skeleton, and rightfully concluded that the teeth did not belong to it. The plant eating teeth were dismissed as fish teeth or teeth of a rhinoceros by experts of the time.

He quickly changed his story after hearing of a 'larger than life' (literally) tale by a Richard Owen. The charismatic creationist Sir Richard Owen in 1842 invented the dinosaur, in a two hour captivating speech. Using fragments of bones from here and there he heaped fiction upon fiction to support his imaginative view of what were essentially dragons for a new age. Having had his imagination taken away by Owen he quickly pasted these two finds together. 

This was used by Hayden when he found some random large bones in the Missouri River in 1854. These were largely just teeth again.  How is it that Sir Owen described dinosaurs before their proper discovery in 1854? Until then all we knew about was a large crocodile and some fish teeth. It sounds like somebody found some teeth and wanted to get some fame out of it so made his discoveries fit the imaginative tales of a master story teller.

The First Dinosaur Hoax
The supposed first discovery of a dinosaur was by William Parker Foulke in 1858. Having heard of a fellow named Hopkins pulling bones out of a pit and putting them on display at his house, envious, he went and pulled out the first nearly complete skeleton of a dinosaur. Hopkins discovered his large bones in 1838. There is no evidence that these bones belonged to any type of large lizard.

As it turns out, the skull of Foulke was shown to be faked, and it was made using an iguana skull as reference. They replaced it with, I know you can't guess this - a duck bill. This was then shown to also be fake. Later it was shown that his impossible posture was also faked. However, the damage was done, and the American people captivated with the dinosaur myth, adding it dogmatically into their scientific religion, never to be questioned again.

The War of the Hoaxers
IN the late 1870s began the great Dinosaur rush. led by Cope and Marsh they quickly fell to greed and became mortal enemies. Using spies, armed thugs, and theft, they spent much of their time fighting each other to gain fame for their fanciful inventions highlighting the despicable mark of the scientist - "anything goes." They simply were not able to share the spotlight, it seems. These two are responsible for the largest majority of dinosaur findings of the time by FAR. They single handedly found as many bones as possible and tied them together in any way possible in one of sciences greatest pissing contests, ignoring logic and error that would only be discovered years later. Known as the 'bone wars' these two people are responsible more than anybody else for all the ridiculously fake dinosaurs we see continuing in the tradition of planting bones in locations and grafting together unrelated species to make their Frankenstein lizards.

The Second Dinosaur Rush
The second rush occurred in Canada, Alberta to be specific. Having dug up all the animal bones they could from the Missouri river they turned their attention to the well known bone harvest ground of the Red Deer River. In 1910 this area become the main collecting area for bones. Again we have another fight for fame this time between Barnum Brown and Sternberg.

This begs the question. Why is it that no Native Americans discovered any of these bones? Why are there no discoveries by any culture or any mention of these dinosaurs before 1842?! The area was very often inhabited by many native tribes. But beyond this, there are no mentions of dinosaurs at all before 1800s in any country or any culture. They are clearly very common to find during this time, so much so that Richard Owen pulled them out of a random pit. Additionally, no artifacts were reported from indigenous people - lending credence to the idea that they were transporting bones from other areas and planting them to further their fame.

Are we supposed to believe there were no quarries before the 1800s? Or that we as a species collectively ignored the giant bones lying around everywhere, especially near water where we are known to prefer to build cities? No, this is patently ridiculous.


Today: Most Museum Dinosaurs are Hoaxes
Paleontologists find a tooth and construct an entire body around it. They find a rock? Its a dinosaur egg. Not much has changed.

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Quote from: FalseProphet on May 13, 2016, 08:07:03 AM

1. The mesozoic mass extinction event seems to have killed all animal life down to a certain size.

2. Underwater life is very much effected by overwater incidents

3. Most of the energy mammals acquire goes to the mantainance of warm-bloodedness and the larger and more complicated brain.

4. Fossils do not generate easily.

5. Only creationist idiots mention dinosaur fossils and C14 dating in the same sentence.

6. 98% is pretty complete.

1. Evidence does not show this!
2. Yes, but not ALL underwater life is effected by overwater incidents. And affected is a long jump from extinction.
3. Dinosaurs are supposedly warm blooded. http://www.livescience.com/51162-dinosaurs-warm-blooded-growth-rates.html This also ties in with their attempts to show evolution true by their creation of bird dinosaurs.
4. This is propaganda by the oil and gasoline industries.
5. So no response? What of dinosaur bones, if my imprecision is to supposedly show falsehood?
6. Not when its stitched together and created out of planted evidence.

I believe in whatever the evidence points towards.

The evidence does not point to anything about paleontology being able to give his honest content without forged results. More than that, it gives us contradictory, wild tales. I'd imagine the Bible is more accurate in its predictions overall than the study of paleontology.

The whole profession was birthed in lies. Think if you told your wife that the first thing you said to her was a lie? And since then it has been one forgery after another, one lie after another; and it still hasn't stopped today.

Would you ever expect her to believe you again? And then if you spent years and years lying again about the same thing?

How can anybody be expected to trust paleontology, the deadbeat husband of knowledge?

Do I believe in Dinosaurs? I don't tend to believe in things until they have been shown to me and done is in a true way, a justifiable way, a consistent way, and an accurate way. It has done none of these things time and again and time again.

On the other hand, we have bushels of evidence in Dinofaux being a largely made up enterprise.

I'm not saying that believing in Dinosaurs makes you likened to a a wife in an abusive relationship. The facts are saying that. The honeymoon is over, and you just don't want to admit the truth. If you choose to continue to live in your dream world of dragons, I'll support that decision and you. But we are all worried about you guys.

Dragons.

Really?

Please. We don't like to see you put yourself in an abusive knowledge relationship with paleontology. He's a bad guy.

Where did I assert the bible had anything relevant to say about the bone wars? I said it was more accurate in its predictions in general compared to paleontology.

I'm not seeing a lot of facts. "Its possible"

Richard Owen, as Thomas Huxley and others point out, was a creationist who did not perform "good science." He was against Darwin's evolution, and was a mean spirited  spiteful vile man willing to go to any lengths to be proven right, facts aside - at least so say his contemporaries.

It's nice you managed to find the Encyclopedia Britannica intro on him though. It is only recently that folks have gone back to rewrite supposed "historical fact" and paint him an undeserved better light giving that they stole some of blatant falsehoods to support their little dragon fancy.

It would be nice if you could supply facts before demanding them, but hey I'm not holding my breath.