NASA teams should have grown plants on the Moon by 2015. OMG! ROTFL!!!

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Ladies and Gentlemen,

I've just found the following... hmm... material by clicking on the link (http://www.extremetech.com/extreme/171975-nasa-teams-with-google-to-grow-plants-on-the-moon-by-2015-to-create-habitable-environment) so kindly provided by Heiwa on his page (http://heiwaco.com/moontravel.htm). It made my day. Things like that do have a tendency to disappear from the Net, so I am placing it here. Does anyone know how much did it cost and what was the outcome of these brave attempts? Where are the images? The deadline has already passed...

Here is the precious article. I only made the font bold in some extraordinarily juicy places. Enjoy:

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NASA teams with Google to grow plants on the moon by 2015 to create habitable environment

By James Plafke on December 3, 2013 at 12:54 pm

Everyone dreams about what living on some distant celestial body would be like. The human race has only ever stepped foot on our moon, though, and it’s not a habitable environment. However, NASA is looking to change that, starting with growing plants on the lunar surface.

While we’re not even remotely close to having sci-fi domed habitable zones on anything but Earth, growing plants is a vital step toward sustainability in a new environment. Aside from the obvious life support that vegetation would provide — air, food, and water — it would also provide another integral aspect to a habitable lunar environment. Plants react to aspects of a harsh environment similarly to humans, as their genetic material can be damaged by radiation. A relatively safe way to test long-term lunar exposure is to send some plants up there and monitor their health. NASA likens this to being like sending a canary into a coal mine. Rather than making the trip and dropping the plants off itself, NASA plans to use commercial spaceflight as the vehicle by which the plants will be sent up to the moon.

Obviously, the plants can’t be embedded into the lunar surface then left alone, so NASA is constructing a small, lightweight (a little over two pounds), self-sustaining habitat for the vegetation. The habitat will be delivered to the moon via the Moon Express, a lunar lander that’s part of the Google Lunar X Prize, a competition to create a robotic spacecraft that can fly to and land on the moon.

Once the lander arrives on the moon, water will be added to basil, turnip, and Arabidopsis (a small flowering plant) seeds kept in the habitat, then monitored for five to 10 days and compared to controls back on Earth. NASA will also monitor the actual habitat itself, looking toward its scalability since a two-pound habitat won’t support human life. Currently, the chamber can support 10 basil seeds, 10 turnip seeds, and around 100 Arabidopsis seeds. It also holds the bit of water that initiates the germination process, and uses the natural sunlight that reaches the moon to support the plant life.

In order to study the quality of the plant growth and movement, the habitat will take images and beam them back home.

If NASA doesn’t run into any unexpected bumps, its long-term plans include attempting to grow a more diverse crop of plants, longer growth periods, and reproduction experiments. The longer the experiments, the more we’ll learn about the long-term effects of a lunar environment on Earth plants. Growing turnips on the moon in a man-made pod won’t directly lead to Luna Park, but its an important step toward a long-term stay on the lunar surface.



---------------------------------------------

P.S. Just a few things. According to RET, the temperature on the Moon varies from minus 153 C (minus 243 F) to 107 C (225 F) or so. And there's vacuum there, so water would evaporize in a few seconds (at daytime). Or the plants would almost instantly freeze at night (which, by the way, lasts 13.5 our days), even if the "lander" was hermetically sealed. And the radiation is so high (at daytime) that a human being, as well as most of the higher plant species would be killed in a few days... What do they smoke, just curious... I like the picture, though. It's so realistic...
 ;D ;D ;D
"It is not necessary that hypotheses should be true, or even probable; it is sufficient that they lead to results of calculation which agree with calculation".
Copernicus

*

TheBigYun

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 Before posting on this forum, you should always refer to the forums hero "Papa Legba".
You are wasting your time posting anything unless you get his prior approval which sounds like this:
Pip Pip
Jings Help Me Boab
Small Fart
Take That You Bounder
The Lawn Needs Be Cut
Jesus Never Died - He was Just Cross
Everyone who does not agree with him is a child molester.
He claims Hillary gave him a blow job - and this is true,
His arguments and logic are the worst that I have ever encountered….. It is so bad that a sort of grandeur creeps into it. It drags itself out of the dark abysm of pish and crawls inanely up the topmost pinnacle of posh. It is rumble and bumble. It is flap and doo.

To commemorate that article about NASA growing Arabidopsis, basil and turnip on the Moon, I have just changed my avatar to a nice picture of Arabidopsis thaliana PCR gel that I did and run myself. Thank you, dear NASA! That was one of the funniest things I've ever met on the Net.
 ;D
« Last Edit: May 08, 2016, 01:20:26 PM by Humble_Scientist »
"It is not necessary that hypotheses should be true, or even probable; it is sufficient that they lead to results of calculation which agree with calculation".
Copernicus

*

Bom Tishop

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Anyone whom asks me to refer to anything from heiwa for "proof" is automatically disqualified as an expert witness, all evidence is expunged from the court, and case is dismissed with prejudice.

Anyone who is referring to heiwa because they feel he has any sort of intelligence, truthfulness, or general sanity IS automatically qualified to be seen by a mental health professional IMMEDIATELY.

If you are gonna hitch your wagon to someone humble.....make sure it's a star and not a frog. Honestly I feel I just insulted the frog...
Quote from: Bom Tishop
LordDave is quite alright even for a bleeding heart liberal. Godspeed good sir

Anyone whom asks me to refer to anything from heiwa for "proof" is automatically disqualified as an expert witness, all evidence is expunged from the court, and case is dismissed with prejudice.

Anyone who is referring to heiwa because they feel he has any sort of intelligence, truthfulness, or general sanity IS automatically qualified to be seen by a mental health professional IMMEDIATELY.

If you are gonna hitch your wagon to someone humble.....make sure it's a star and not a frog. Honestly I feel I just insulted the frog...

 :P

Dear Babyhighspeed,

Well, if even mentioning Heiwa makes you feel so uncomfortable, please feel free to read the "pure" article, by clicking on the following link:

http://www.extremetech.com/extreme/171975-nasa-teams-with-google-to-grow-plants-on-the-moon-by-2015-to-create-habitable-environment

It's so funny! Just relax and enjoy the weekend.

By the way, I've just remembered watching some beauty contest a while ago, and that Miss Texas was so beautiful. Such a perfect balance between Celtic and Anglo-Saxon races, with a possible tint of Spanish blood. Ice and flame... You must be happy to live there with such girls, a glance at whom can make you feel better.
 8)
"It is not necessary that hypotheses should be true, or even probable; it is sufficient that they lead to results of calculation which agree with calculation".
Copernicus

*

sokarul

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Seems like a really neat idea. I wonder what happened to it.
ANNIHILATOR OF  SHIFTER

It's no slur if it's fact.

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Bom Tishop

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I don't quite see what the problem with the tech listed is? It is feasible, though the article seems more like a PR stunt than reality.

As for Texas women....well there are many gorgeous women here, looks have never been a problem. It's what's inside is the issue here. A moral compass so off I am surprised they can navigate whatsoever. No care for anything or anyone but their own needs. Gold diggers...and only care about keeping up with the ladies next to them. Narcissism at its finest example. Though this is a generalization, and there is always exceptions to the rules. However, this generalization easily applies to the high populous unfortunately.

There is a reason the wise and successful males here have very little interest in Texas women (or even American women) in general. It's a mess and they are only getting worse.
Quote from: Bom Tishop
LordDave is quite alright even for a bleeding heart liberal. Godspeed good sir

*

rabinoz

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Anyone whom asks me to refer to anything from heiwa for "proof" is automatically disqualified as an expert witness, all evidence is expunged from the court, and case is dismissed with prejudice.

Anyone who is referring to heiwa because they feel he has any sort of intelligence, truthfulness, or general sanity IS automatically qualified to be seen by a mental health professional IMMEDIATELY.

If you are gonna hitch your wagon to someone humble.....make sure it's a star and not a frog. Honestly I feel I just insulted the frog...

 :P

Dear Babyhighspeed,

Well, if even mentioning Heiwa makes you feel so uncomfortable, please feel free to read the "pure" article, by clicking on the following link:

http://www.extremetech.com/extreme/171975-nasa-teams-with-google-to-grow-plants-on-the-moon-by-2015-to-create-habitable-environment

It's so funny! Just relax and enjoy the weekend.

By the way, I've just remembered watching some beauty contest a while ago, and that Miss Texas was so beautiful. Such a perfect balance between Celtic and Anglo-Saxon races, with a possible tint of Spanish blood. Ice and flame... You must be happy to live there with such girls, a glance at whom can make you feel better.
 8)

I see you are still doing these remote psychoanalyses! Do you still do it for free or do we have to put in a Medical Insurance claim for it?

I don't quite see what the problem with the tech listed is? It is feasible, though the article seems more like a PR stunt than reality.

Well, it is "a small, lightweight (a little over two pounds), self-sustaining habitat for the vegetation." The article does not say if it is hermetically closed, and does not mention any means of thermoregulation. So, according to RET, NASA were going to grow the plants from seeds at minus 153 C (minus 243 F), or at 107 C (225 F), or both, possibly in vacuum, at high radiation levels.

Have you ever tried germinating basil seeds in a hissing pressure cooker? In a freezer? The sprouts must be yummy... I suspected those NASA guys might be weird, but that degree of ... hmmm... weirdness, to put it very mildly, - is totally beyond my comprehension.
 ;D

Seems like a really neat idea. I wonder what happened to it.

Me too. Pictures! Pictures! NASA must have already reached the Moon and produce the pictures of yummy basil grown at minus 243 F and plus 225 F. Where are they?
 ;D ;D ;D
"It is not necessary that hypotheses should be true, or even probable; it is sufficient that they lead to results of calculation which agree with calculation".
Copernicus

Anyone whom asks me to refer to anything from heiwa for "proof" is automatically disqualified as an expert witness, all evidence is expunged from the court, and case is dismissed with prejudice.

Anyone who is referring to heiwa because they feel he has any sort of intelligence, truthfulness, or general sanity IS automatically qualified to be seen by a mental health professional IMMEDIATELY.

If you are gonna hitch your wagon to someone humble.....make sure it's a star and not a frog. Honestly I feel I just insulted the frog...

 :P

Dear Babyhighspeed,

Well, if even mentioning Heiwa makes you feel so uncomfortable, please feel free to read the "pure" article, by clicking on the following link:

http://www.extremetech.com/extreme/171975-nasa-teams-with-google-to-grow-plants-on-the-moon-by-2015-to-create-habitable-environment

It's so funny! Just relax and enjoy the weekend.

By the way, I've just remembered watching some beauty contest a while ago, and that Miss Texas was so beautiful. Such a perfect balance between Celtic and Anglo-Saxon races, with a possible tint of Spanish blood. Ice and flame... You must be happy to live there with such girls, a glance at whom can make you feel better.
 8)

I see you are still doing these remote psychoanalyses! Do you still do it for free or do we have to put in a Medical Insurance claim for it?

"Remote psychoanalyses"? What do you mean, dear Rabinoz?
  8)
"It is not necessary that hypotheses should be true, or even probable; it is sufficient that they lead to results of calculation which agree with calculation".
Copernicus

*

rabinoz

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Anyone whom asks me to refer to anything from heiwa for "proof" is automatically disqualified as an expert witness, all evidence is expunged from the court, and case is dismissed with prejudice.

Anyone who is referring to heiwa because they feel he has any sort of intelligence, truthfulness, or general sanity IS automatically qualified to be seen by a mental health professional IMMEDIATELY.

If you are gonna hitch your wagon to someone humble.....make sure it's a star and not a frog. Honestly I feel I just insulted the frog...

 :P

Dear Babyhighspeed,

Well, if even mentioning Heiwa makes you feel so uncomfortable, please feel free to read the "pure" article, by clicking on the following link:

http://www.extremetech.com/extreme/171975-nasa-teams-with-google-to-grow-plants-on-the-moon-by-2015-to-create-habitable-environment

It's so funny! Just relax and enjoy the weekend.

By the way, I've just remembered watching some beauty contest a while ago, and that Miss Texas was so beautiful. Such a perfect balance between Celtic and Anglo-Saxon races, with a possible tint of Spanish blood. Ice and flame... You must be happy to live there with such girls, a glance at whom can make you feel better.
 8)

I see you are still doing these remote psychoanalyses! Do you still do it for free or do we have to put in a Medical Insurance claim for it?

"Remote psychoanalyses"? What do you mean, dear Rabinoz?
  8)

Just little bits like: "Well, if even mentioning Heiwa makes you feel so uncomfortable, please feel free to read the "pure" article, by clicking on the following link: " and
"You must be happy to live there with such girls, a glance at whom can make you feel better. "

Not quite the in depth analyses we used to get!




*

Bom Tishop

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Oh wow!! I did not know I was being analyzed!! I figured he was being facetious and condescending .  Guess that is why assumptions are a no no. Maybe I will learn something new about myself, or why I have problems in the noodle.
Quote from: Bom Tishop
LordDave is quite alright even for a bleeding heart liberal. Godspeed good sir

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Heiwa

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Here is more nonsense - http://www.nasa.gov/sites/default/files/atoms/files/journey-to-mars-next-steps-20151008_508.pdf

Quote
NASA is leading our nation and our world on a journey to Mars. Like the Apollo Program, we embark on this journey for all humanity. Unlike Apollo, we will be going to stay. This is a historic pioneering endeavor. A journey made possible by a sustained effort of science and exploration missions beyond low Earth orbit with successively more capable technologies and partnerships. ...
Quote
Mars is an achievable goal. We have spent more than four decades on the journey to Mars, with wildly successful robotic explorers. The first human steps have been taken through science and technology research aboard the International Space Station (ISS) and in laboratories here on Earth. We are taking the next steps by developing the Space Launch System (SLS) and the Orion crewed spacecraft, demonstrating new operations to reduce logistics, and preparing for human missions into cislunar space, such as exploring a captured asteroid. ...
Quote
The journey to Mars passes through three thresholds, each with increasing challenges as humans move farther from Earth. NASA and our partners are managing these challenges by developing and demonstrating capabilities in incremental steps.
Earth Reliant exploration is focused on research aboard the ISS. ...
In the Proving Ground, NASA will learn to conduct complex operations in a deep space environment that allows crews to return to Earth in a matter of days [sic]. ... Solar electric propulsion (SEP) uses energy from the sun to accelerate ionized propellant to very high speeds. Compared to chemical propulsion, electric propulsion provides very low levels of thrust; however, it is incredibly efficient and can provide thrust continuously for months or years, allowing more mass to be transported with far less propellant. ...
Earth Independent activities build on what we learn on ISS and in cislunar space to enable human missions to the Mars vicinity, including the Martian moons, and eventually the Martian surface. ... We are already in orbit around and on the surface of Mars with a fleet of robotic science explorers.
Blablabla.

Anyone whom asks me to refer to anything from heiwa for "proof" is automatically disqualified as an expert witness, all evidence is expunged from the court, and case is dismissed with prejudice.

Anyone who is referring to heiwa because they feel he has any sort of intelligence, truthfulness, or general sanity IS automatically qualified to be seen by a mental health professional IMMEDIATELY.

If you are gonna hitch your wagon to someone humble.....make sure it's a star and not a frog. Honestly I feel I just insulted the frog...

 :P

Dear Babyhighspeed,

Well, if even mentioning Heiwa makes you feel so uncomfortable, please feel free to read the "pure" article, by clicking on the following link:

http://www.extremetech.com/extreme/171975-nasa-teams-with-google-to-grow-plants-on-the-moon-by-2015-to-create-habitable-environment

It's so funny! Just relax and enjoy the weekend.

By the way, I've just remembered watching some beauty contest a while ago, and that Miss Texas was so beautiful. Such a perfect balance between Celtic and Anglo-Saxon races, with a possible tint of Spanish blood. Ice and flame... You must be happy to live there with such girls, a glance at whom can make you feel better.
 8)

I see you are still doing these remote psychoanalyses! Do you still do it for free or do we have to put in a Medical Insurance claim for it?

"Remote psychoanalyses"? What do you mean, dear Rabinoz?
  8)

Just little bits like: "Well, if even mentioning Heiwa makes you feel so uncomfortable, please feel free to read the "pure" article, by clicking on the following link: " and
"You must be happy to live there with such girls, a glance at whom can make you feel better. "

Not quite the in depth analyses we used to get!

 ;)

Rabinoz, I so sincerely wish you saw that Texas girl... I bet even the judges' ties erected the very moment she stepped on the podium. OMG. Very young. Extremely beautiful. What was absolutely fantastic - she obviously did not know herself how beautiful she is, and that was totally killing. Ya know that happens, though very rarely. Even the manner she was turning her head - you know, with that raised chin and her lashes just a bit-bit closed - would lay you right on the spot. What a treasure, her emanations of beauty, health and happiness could be felt through many thousand miles and through the TV screen. I've never seen her after that, - probably, somebody married her very soon.
 :P
"It is not necessary that hypotheses should be true, or even probable; it is sufficient that they lead to results of calculation which agree with calculation".
Copernicus

Not quite the in depth analyses we used to get!
:P
All right, you've told me into this... Let's make a quick look at your phrase:
"I see you are still doing these remote psychoanalyses! Do you still do it for free or do we have to put in a Medical Insurance claim for it?"

Enjoy:

You wrote that in a fairly big room at the ground floor. On the right side from you and your comp (and a bit behind you), you had a big window - I mean, that hybrid of window and doors that slides aside. Not much grass was seen, but it was green, recently cut. The sky was blue, though there were no rays of direct sunlight coming into the room. To the left of you, there was some dark expensive furniture and some kind of mess - I would not describe it. There was a smaller window at a distance, in front of you. You were sitting, in front of your computer, in a gray chair, wearing a white T-shirt with some dark writing or picture in the middle of your back, and light-coloured slippers on your feet...
 ;D ;D ;D
"It is not necessary that hypotheses should be true, or even probable; it is sufficient that they lead to results of calculation which agree with calculation".
Copernicus

Here is more nonsense - http://www.nasa.gov/sites/default/files/atoms/files/journey-to-mars-next-steps-20151008_508.pdf

Quote
NASA is leading our nation and our world on a journey to Mars. Like the Apollo Program, we embark on this journey for all humanity. Unlike Apollo, we will be going to stay. This is a historic pioneering endeavor. A journey made possible by a sustained effort of science and exploration missions beyond low Earth orbit with successively more capable technologies and partnerships. ...
Quote
Mars is an achievable goal. We have spent more than four decades on the journey to Mars, with wildly successful robotic explorers. The first human steps have been taken through science and technology research aboard the International Space Station (ISS) and in laboratories here on Earth. We are taking the next steps by developing the Space Launch System (SLS) and the Orion crewed spacecraft, demonstrating new operations to reduce logistics, and preparing for human missions into cislunar space, such as exploring a captured asteroid. ...
Quote
The journey to Mars passes through three thresholds, each with increasing challenges as humans move farther from Earth. NASA and our partners are managing these challenges by developing and demonstrating capabilities in incremental steps.
Earth Reliant exploration is focused on research aboard the ISS. ...
In the Proving Ground, NASA will learn to conduct complex operations in a deep space environment that allows crews to return to Earth in a matter of days [sic]. ... Solar electric propulsion (SEP) uses energy from the sun to accelerate ionized propellant to very high speeds. Compared to chemical propulsion, electric propulsion provides very low levels of thrust; however, it is incredibly efficient and can provide thrust continuously for months or years, allowing more mass to be transported with far less propellant. ...
Earth Independent activities build on what we learn on ISS and in cislunar space to enable human missions to the Mars vicinity, including the Martian moons, and eventually the Martian surface. ... We are already in orbit around and on the surface of Mars with a fleet of robotic science explorers.
Blablabla.

Dear Heiwa, thanks for the link. I digged a bit and found that:

Silberberg et al. (1985) have suggested that a compacted layer of lunar regolith at least 2 meters thick should be placed over permanent habitats. With shielding of this thickness, the colonists' yearly exposure could be held to 5 rem per year if they spent no more than 20 percent of each Earth month on the surface. In order to provide an overall level of protection of no more than 5 rem per year even in the event of an extreme solar flare, such as occurred in February 1956, the depth of shielding would have to be doubled.

The source is NASA: http://www.nss.org/settlement/nasa/spaceresvol4/human.html

So, they kind of knew (in RE terms) that any permanent settlement on the Moon would require 4 meters (13 feet) of lunar soil above the heads of the colonists, but were going to grow basil on the surface of the Moon... So far, I could draw at least two conclusions from that:

(1) The participants of the lunar basil project were probably laughing all the way to their bank machines;

(2) American taxpayers must be very nice and very gullible folks. I like them and feel sorry for them.
 8)
« Last Edit: May 09, 2016, 05:23:38 PM by Humble_Scientist »
"It is not necessary that hypotheses should be true, or even probable; it is sufficient that they lead to results of calculation which agree with calculation".
Copernicus

As for Texas women....well there are many gorgeous women here, looks have never been a problem. It's what's inside is the issue here. A moral compass so off I am surprised they can navigate whatsoever. No care for anything or anyone but their own needs. Gold diggers...and only care about keeping up with the ladies next to them. Narcissism at its finest example. Though this is a generalization, and there is always exceptions to the rules. However, this generalization easily applies to the high populous unfortunately.

There is a reason the wise and successful males here have very little interest in Texas women (or even American women) in general. It's a mess and they are only getting worse.

You are perfectly right, yet I feel sorry for the beauties. The real reason of that mess is those synthetic female hormones that (in North America) have been injected into cattle since 1950s, to make the meet more tender. Now the girls here have their breasts and periods at 8-9 y.o. and, later, breast cancer at 40 or so. Their behaviour changed, too, due to the action of the hormones. And the males have all kinds of certain symptoms etc. Yep, you're right, it's gonna be only worse.

I've got quite a few stories like that. For example, drinking water in North America since 1970s (if I'm not mistaken) is being treated with aluminium salts, despite they knew perfectly well, since 1960s, that aluminium is linked to Alzheimer, kidney failure and so on. Now they are raising money for treating Alzheimer. Or BHA and BHT, synthetic anti-oxidants, are still being added to the food and food packaging (read the labels on cereals at any supermarket), despite they knew very well, at least 30 years ago, that those are carcinogens. Or tartrazine, yet another carcinogen (food colour), which is added to our food, especially food for children - 'cause the kids like bright colours... Etc. etc. etc.
« Last Edit: May 09, 2016, 05:11:11 PM by Humble_Scientist »
"It is not necessary that hypotheses should be true, or even probable; it is sufficient that they lead to results of calculation which agree with calculation".
Copernicus

*

Bom Tishop

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  • Official friend boy of the FES!!
As for Texas women....well there are many gorgeous women here, looks have never been a problem. It's what's inside is the issue here. A moral compass so off I am surprised they can navigate whatsoever. No care for anything or anyone but their own needs. Gold diggers...and only care about keeping up with the ladies next to them. Narcissism at its finest example. Though this is a generalization, and there is always exceptions to the rules. However, this generalization easily applies to the high populous unfortunately.

There is a reason the wise and successful males here have very little interest in Texas women (or even American women) in general. It's a mess and they are only getting worse.

You are perfectly right, yet I feel sorry for the beauties. The real reason of that mess is those synthetic female hormones that (in North America) have been injected into cattle since 1950s, to make the meet more tender. Now the girls here have their breasts and periods at 8-9 y.o. and, later, breast cancer at 40 or so. Their behaviour changed, too, due to the action of the hormones. And the males have all kinds of certain symptoms etc. Yep, you're right, it's gonna be only worse.

I've got quite a few stories like that. For example, drinking water in North America since 1970s (if I'm not mistaken) is being treated with aluminium salts, despite they knew perfectly well, since 1960s, that aluminium is linked to Alzheimer, kidney failure and so on. Now they are raising money for treating Alzheimer. Or BHA and BHT, synthetic anti-oxidants, are still being added to the food and food packaging (read the labels on cereals at any supermarket), despite they knew very well, at least 30 years ago, that those are carcinogens. Or tartrazine, yet another carcinogen (food colour), which is added to our food, especially food for children - 'cause the kids like bright colours... Etc. etc. etc.

I certainly agree with you here. 7 years ago I spent a year running a study I funded from my business. Tested water of many various sources from tap to reverse osmosis and anywhere in between. Studied many different meats, cheese, fruits, vegetables, processed foods ect. The results were deplorable.

Since that time I pay 9 dollars a pound from a fairly local farm for my chicken and occasional pork. It's very expensive and a pain, but they all but pet the animals lol. The water i drink is an unfortunate 2 dollars a liter, but oh well I know what's in it and where it comes from.

Also don't get me started on modern methods of producing poultry, pork and beef. I was going to dedicate a year to that as well. Only took 3 weeks till I was done, especially the poultry and pork. How any human can do that to another living creature is beyond me. I do know not all counties are as bad as the States in this department.

Only time I eat out is for client meetings and even then I just pick at my food for appearances.

Avacados though... They are a beast. There was no difference in organic or standard. All the toxins were always flushed to the skin of the avacado. Only difference was some were a little different in their nutrient amounts depending on where they came from.

Also everyone!!! Take magnesium supplements....this is the one common mineral missing in every food tested, even the ones that was suppose to be a good source of it. Our soils are beat to hell. Even drinking artisan water with magnesium in it, there isn't enough.

As for women, I can give them some leeway for hormone imbalances, however I can't say that is all. I am more prone to pin it on a lack of moral compass and extreme narcissism. Remember the new America is the land of instant gratification. Not only that, everyone has a complex of self entitlement that is completely undeserved.

Very frightening
Quote from: Bom Tishop
LordDave is quite alright even for a bleeding heart liberal. Godspeed good sir