What now?

I have been reading and reading and researching about FE for a while. I looked at it one day for fun. Then I started doing the 'math'. Nothing was adding up for a globe. I am a Christian and I know that every time someone tries to debunk the Bible, they always find out it is true! The FE model fits the Bible. I would not even consider FE if it did not. But it matches perfectly!
There has to be a group that has not accepted the globe. I mean a group of influential believers in Christ, an underground if you will, from centuries ago that has continued to keep the truth alive. This globe thing is only 500 years old!
What can we do with this information we have? How do we inform without all the crap people are posting. I mean, the earth being flat or a globe won't affect me having to pay my bills every month, but it is the secret science/religion of nasa that gets me.
I know there is great science out there, I mean there are great things that we use, and being done everyday. But they follow the scientific rules!
Nasa does not!
I just worry about my children and my future generations, and what this will mean to them and how long this lie can continue...and all the other lies that will have to be told to do so. ie aliens...?
So, what now? What do we do with this information?
This information has personally really made me look at everything differently. This may be the awakening that many cultures spoke/speak about. I don't know. Did the greed of man screw something up at the North pole to cause our climate changes???
Just look for yourself. Remember, we only know what we have been told...it doesn't make it true!
Meanwhile, I'm gonna look for the underground!

I have been reading and reading and researching about FE for a while. I looked at it one day for fun. Then I started doing the 'math'. Nothing was adding up for a globe. I am a Christian and I know that every time someone tries to debunk the Bible, they always find out it is true! The FE model fits the Bible. I would not even consider FE if it did not. But it matches perfectly!
There has to be a group that has not accepted the globe. I mean a group of influential believers in Christ, an underground if you will, from centuries ago that has continued to keep the truth alive. This globe thing is only 500 years old!
What can we do with this information we have? How do we inform without all the crap people are posting. I mean, the earth being flat or a globe won't affect me having to pay my bills every month, but it is the secret science/religion of nasa that gets me.
I know there is great science out there, I mean there are great things that we use, and being done everyday. But they follow the scientific rules!
Nasa does not!
I just worry about my children and my future generations, and what this will mean to them and how long this lie can continue...and all the other lies that will have to be told to do so. ie aliens...?
So, what now? What do we do with this information?
This information has personally really made me look at everything differently. This may be the awakening that many cultures spoke/speak about. I don't know. Did the greed of man screw something up at the North pole to cause our climate changes???
Just look for yourself. Remember, we only know what we have been told...it doesn't make it true!
Meanwhile, I'm gonna look for the underground!

Everything adds up for the globe.  Everything.  If something isn't adding up, you haven't done enough research.  NASA is not hiding anything; in fact it is one of the more transparent government agencies.  And most of the people they employ are private contractors, which means that they couldn't maintain a conspiracy if they tried.  NASA represents our best and brightest, and shows the levels we can reach if we work together and set our minds to the task.  Your children have nothing to fear.  Let them be inspired, and encourage them to ask questions.  Don't be afraid to ask questions yourself, either.  If you truly have a genuine question, I would be happy to help find an answer. 

Even if the Bible was meant to serve as a valid scientific text, it's certainly not saying the earth is flat.  The most you can get from it concerning the shape of the earth are a few vague scriptures that have been bent to support either side.  Don't misuse the Bible like that.  Instead, choose to believe the observations that we make today. 

Really? Nothing adds up for the globe! The thing is, WE are not making the observations, nasa is... I confirm what 'I' see! I am using the Bible as the truth. The scriptures are not vague, but very precise. The conspiracy exists mainly because of the departmentalization of nasa. Only those at the top know the truth. Contractors only do a specific part of a job. They only know what they need to. I will not trust a bunch of freemasons. My grandfather was a mason. I grew up hearing and seeing many strange things. I loved him, but I did not want to be a part of it. Most if not all of the 'astronauts' were/are freemasons. I do the research! Air Force and Navy active and veteran, have come, and are coming forward, with information concerning lack of curve on water, and that all communications are land based, as well as other things they have observed. I definitely think more research should be done. By me...and you.

Really? Nothing adds up for the globe! The thing is, WE are not making the observations, nasa is... I confirm what 'I' see! I am using the Bible as the truth. The scriptures are not vague, but very precise. The conspiracy exists mainly because of the departmentalization of nasa. Only those at the top know the truth. Contractors only do a specific part of a job. They only know what they need to. I will not trust a bunch of freemasons. My grandfather was a mason. I grew up hearing and seeing many strange things. I loved him, but I did not want to be a part of it. Most if not all of the 'astronauts' were/are freemasons. I do the research! Air Force and Navy active and veteran, have come, and are coming forward, with information concerning lack of curve on water, and that all communications are land based, as well as other things they have observed. I definitely think more research should be done. By me...and you.

But it's not just being done by NASA.  There are plenty of other people and organizations that do astronomy as well, including amateurs.  You can get Stellarium and see for yourself. 
The Flat Earth Society has thus far failed to give a well-thought-out explanation for tides and satellites that is consistent with basic observations.  Why do satellites follow what appear to be ellipses?  If we can see other planets and moons also following Kepler orbits around their parent bodies, why do should our satellites function by a completely different mechanism?  No good answers, just "non-Euclidean space" or "aether currents."  Why does the moon always face the earth, as with many other moons in the solar system with their parents?  Why are there two high tides each day?  No good answers from flat earthers, but we know that these effects are due to gravity gradients, which cause the differential tidal force. 
There's no concrete evidence that all the astronauts were freemasons.  However, a lot of them were eagle scouts, that much we know. 
There's plenty of evidence that the surface of the ocean is curved.  This was known since ancient times.  But arguing about that is pointless now that we have satellites to look at. 

Really? Nothing adds up for the globe! The thing is, WE are not making the observations, nasa is... I confirm what 'I' see! I am using the Bible as the truth. The scriptures are not vague, but very precise. The conspiracy exists mainly because of the departmentalization of nasa. Only those at the top know the truth. Contractors only do a specific part of a job. They only know what they need to. I will not trust a bunch of freemasons. My grandfather was a mason. I grew up hearing and seeing many strange things. I loved him, but I did not want to be a part of it. Most if not all of the 'astronauts' were/are freemasons. I do the research! Air Force and Navy active and veteran, have come, and are coming forward, with information concerning lack of curve on water, and that all communications are land based, as well as other things they have observed. I definitely think more research should be done. By me...and you.

My friend I believe your heart is in the right place, and you are certainly granted the free will to believe what you want. However, do not let the Bible be an influencing factor in your choice. Although I consider Yahweh/Yehushua the ultimate truth, there is nothing super definitive in the Bible about the shape of the earth.

I could not begin to describe how much time I have spent studying the original Hebrew/Greek text. (Especially Hebrew, the most frustrating ass backwards sound it out language). I have studied the text speaking of the planets shape. Sure there is some mention of pillars , and the world unshakable ect. However, it is used in the context of metaphors such as Yahweh speaks. The world is immoveable under Yahweh, that was an add on to what was said a chapter above. If I said I was going to knock your lights out..or I am going to rock that person's world...these are metaphors, not literal. Honestly, the only time an actual shape was mentions was in Job, said the world was a sphere held up by nothing.

If Yehushua said the world is flat, and gave an exact description out of His mouth. I would  unquestionably believe the world is flat and it's all a lie. Yet he didn't, so he obviously did not find it important. Remember, it says in the Bible it should be used for study, learning and correction. Also it's whole point was to show the end revelation of our salvation, not to be worshipped. Worshiping the Bible is no different than worshiping a statue of Baal while Moses is on a mountain receiving instruction from Yahweh Himself. The final revelation is we get to have a direct relationship with Yahweh again thanks to His sons sacrifice. Don't forget that.

I do agree though the content in the Bible does defend itself. Excluding all the stuff in the past that was a "lie" according to secular studies, that ended up being true once discovered. Just recently Sodom and Gomorrah was found, and go figure scientist are trying to explain why they have ash residue "underground volcanic disturbance" was last I heard. Even just a month ago they found pottery that dated some 5,000 hears ago...in a dialect they did not know. Go figure it is turning out to be the original form of Hebrew, which was another "lie" and debunking mechanism for critics. As I always tell people, believe in the content if you want about a higher power, however, good luck shooting it down for historical accuracy.

So my friend you don't have to twist things to defend the Bible , it surely handles it's own, the truth always will. It is written by humans with portions of it directly instructed by Yahweh, remember that. Also remember it was designed to tell an entire story, simple to understand, and set a moral code simple to understand, and show a sacrifice of love simple to understand, and to show what we need to do...simple to understand. It was not designed to cherry pick a verse here or there and build an entire background on that verse. Even John, Paul and Timothy warned against doing that.

Oh and apologizing for the somewhat off subject rant. As blue moon said, leaving all science out of it. The conspiracy covers too much ground, involving too many governments, private sectors, nationalities, countries ect. That was my first question here actually, considering at one point I supplied some of those private sector parts until the government funded monopoly squashed the private sectors. I have really been attempting to give this theory a shot out of respect as I do all ideals. I just can't push past that to even get into the science.

Really? Nothing adds up for the globe! The thing is, WE are not making the observations, nasa is... I confirm what 'I' see! I am using the Bible as the truth. The scriptures are not vague, but very precise. The conspiracy exists mainly because of the departmentalization of nasa. Only those at the top know the truth. Contractors only do a specific part of a job. They only know what they need to. I will not trust a bunch of freemasons. My grandfather was a mason. I grew up hearing and seeing many strange things. I loved him, but I did not want to be a part of it. Most if not all of the 'astronauts' were/are freemasons. I do the research! Air Force and Navy active and veteran, have come, and are coming forward, with information concerning lack of curve on water, and that all communications are land based, as well as other things they have observed. I definitely think more research should be done. By me...and you.

artfx1, I agree with you. I have a dislike for all secret societies. I'm quite aware that NASA was heave with Freemasons during the Apollo missions. The Freemasons will take a secret to the grave, thinking they are doing the right thing. I was in the Navy and worked on missile launching systems and worked hand in hand with the fire control technicians. I know the radar could see surface ships out to at least 25 miles which should be impossible where our radar was situated on the ship. Everyone is looking for a curvature of the earth and they can't see one. Tell me this, what would it look like if we could in fact see the curvature of the earth? Wouldn't we see oceans running over the curved earth like we see when we pour water over a curved ball? We never see that no matter how high up we go.

Satan and his minions are taking over the earth. 

I have been reading and reading and researching about FE for a while. I looked at it one day for fun. Then I started doing the 'math'. Nothing was adding up for a globe. I am a Christian and I know that every time someone tries to debunk the Bible, they always find out it is true! The FE model fits the Bible. I would not even consider FE if it did not. But it matches perfectly!

I find it fascinating. 

The problem the Bible (and the Koran) pose for the globalists is that high-powered telescopes and high-flying aeroplanes did not exist a few thousand years ago.  The obvious question is begged "Who was able to see the TRUE form of the earth at the time the ancient texts were written??"

Somebody had to tell lowly mankind the truth before technology existed.  This is why the satanists are so hell-bent to hide the true form of the earth.  The true form of the earth proves divine revelation. 

Everyone is looking for a curvature of the earth and they can't see one. Tell me this, what would it look like if we could in fact see the curvature of the earth?

Depends in what way you're trying to see it.  I can see it curving away from me and objects sinking behind the horizon.

Wouldn't we see oceans running over the curved earth like we see when we pour water over a curved ball?

I see you're still having trouble with that concept.  If the ball is in a weightless (zero-g) environment, and yet pulls matter toward it's surface, then where is the water going 'run off' to?

Quote from: Yendor on April 18, 2016, 09:15:11 AM

Everyone is looking for a curvature of the earth and they can't see one. Tell me this, what would it look like if we could in fact see the curvature of the earth?

Depends in what way you're trying to see it.  I can see it curving away from me and objects sinking behind the horizon.

That is just wishful thinking. You don't see objects sink behind the horizon on the ocean. I've tried it and when a ship goes out of sight observing with the naked eye, when magnification is introduced the entire ship comes back in view.

Wouldn't we see oceans running over the curved earth like we see when we pour water over a curved ball?

I see you're still having trouble with that concept.  If the ball is in a weightless (zero-g) environment, and yet pulls matter toward it's surface, then where is the water going 'run off' to?

You say this powerful gravity pulls objects down, in this case giant mass of ocean waters, towards the earth's center and yet mighty gravity can't keep a simple bag filled with hot air from flying away. If you took a mile long water level and stretched it out over a frozen river, I bet you would not see 8" of slope from end to end.

 

That is just wishful thinking. You don't see objects sink behind the horizon on the ocean. I've tried it and when a ship goes out of sight observing with the naked eye, when magnification is introduced the entire ship comes back in view.

I've posted pictures in the past of objects 'sinking' behind the horizon.  If an object is visibly 'sunken' behind the horizon (not in front of, or on, the horizon and just too small for the eye's/camera's resolution), then it will not rise back up to full view with increased magnification.  Only physically moving closer or increasing one's height will bring the hidden part back into view. 

You say this powerful gravity pulls objects down, in this case giant mass of ocean waters, towards the earth's center and yet mighty gravity can't keep a simple bag filled with hot air from flying away.

Buoyancy

If you took a mile long water level and stretched it out over a frozen river, I bet you would not see 8" of slope from end to end.

Rivers tend to flow downhill, but over a frozen lake, you would be correct.  The water in the level would be 'level' and at the same height at both ends.  That's how it works on the curved surface of a globe.

I have been reading and reading and researching about FE for a while. I looked at it one day for fun. Then I started doing the 'math'. Nothing was adding up for a globe. I am a Christian and I know that every time someone tries to debunk the Bible, they always find out it is true! The FE model fits the Bible. I would not even consider FE if it did not. But it matches perfectly!
There has to be a group that has not accepted the globe. I mean a group of influential believers in Christ, an underground if you will, from centuries ago that has continued to keep the truth alive. This globe thing is only 500 years old!
What can we do with this information we have? How do we inform without all the crap people are posting. I mean, the earth being flat or a globe won't affect me having to pay my bills every month, but it is the secret science/religion of nasa that gets me.
I know there is great science out there, I mean there are great things that we use, and being done everyday. But they follow the scientific rules!
Nasa does not!
I just worry about my children and my future generations, and what this will mean to them and how long this lie can continue...and all the other lies that will have to be told to do so. ie aliens...?
So, what now? What do we do with this information?
This information has personally really made me look at everything differently. This may be the awakening that many cultures spoke/speak about. I don't know. Did the greed of man screw something up at the North pole to cause our climate changes???
Just look for yourself. Remember, we only know what we have been told...it doesn't make it true!
Meanwhile, I'm gonna look for the underground!

What do we do with this information?

I've been fighting the good fight for years now, but the end has been so far out of sight, I could never hope to guess what the endgame would be. I still feel its far off, but I'm open to ideas.

Quote from: Yendor on April 18, 2016, 10:48:16 AM

That is just wishful thinking. You don't see objects sink behind the horizon on the ocean. I've tried it and when a ship goes out of sight observing with the naked eye, when magnification is introduced the entire ship comes back in view.

I've posted pictures in the past of objects 'sinking' behind the horizon.  If an object is visibly 'sunken' behind the horizon (not in front of, or on, the horizon and just too small for the eye's/camera's resolution), then it will not rise back up to full view with increased magnification.  Only physically moving closer or increasing one's height will bring the hidden part back into view. 

Quote

You say this powerful gravity pulls objects down, in this case giant mass of ocean waters, towards the earth's center and yet mighty gravity can't keep a simple bag filled with hot air from flying away.

Buoyancy

Quote

If you took a mile long water level and stretched it out over a frozen river, I bet you would not see 8" of slope from end to end.

Rivers tend to flow downhill, but over a frozen lake, you would be correct.  The water in the level would be 'level' and at the same height at both ends.  That's how it works on the curved surface of a globe.

I know there is no sense arguing with you over this, that is why I conducted my own experiments. I've watched ships go completely out of sight on the horizon and I can use binoculars to bring the entire ship in full view again. I honestly believe it will work this way until the atmosphere will no longer allows it. If I could only see the super structure of the ship with binoculars, then I would agree with you. You should try it yourself. 

If the earth curves 8"per mile square, then frozen or not frozen rivers, salt flats and deserts should not be flat. You know they are, you just won't allow yourself to believe it.

I know there is no sense arguing with you over this, that is why I conducted my own experiments. I've watched ships go completely out of sight on the horizon and I can use binoculars to bring the entire ship in full view again. I honestly believe it will work this way until the atmosphere will no longer allows it.

You "believe" it? What evidence is strong enough to make you believe, but not strong enough to make you know?

Well, in any case, can you tell me what happens in the following video, made by flat earthers?
" class="bbc_link" target="_blank" rel="noopener noreferrer">

No need to listen to it, or even watch most of it. Just look at a few shots of the ship over the course of the video and tell me what you see.

If the earth curves 8"per mile square, then frozen or not frozen rivers, salt flats and deserts should not be flat. You know they are, you just won't allow yourself to believe it.

Why should they not be flat? They could be flat, concave or convex, depending on how they were formed. On small scales, the individual structure of the terrain is much more significant than the shape of the entire earth.

Quote from: Yendor on April 18, 2016, 12:39:22 PM

I know there is no sense arguing with you over this, that is why I conducted my own experiments. I've watched ships go completely out of sight on the horizon and I can use binoculars to bring the entire ship in full view again. I honestly believe it will work this way until the atmosphere will no longer allows it.

You "believe" it? What evidence is strong enough to make you believe, but not strong enough to make you know?

Well, in any case, can you tell me what happens in the following video, made by flat earthers?
" class="bbc_link" target="_blank" rel="noopener noreferrer">

No need to listen to it, or even watch most of it. Just look at a few shots of the ship over the course of the video and tell me what you see.

Quote from: Yendor on April 18, 2016, 12:39:22 PM

If the earth curves 8"per mile square, then frozen or not frozen rivers, salt flats and deserts should not be flat. You know they are, you just won't allow yourself to believe it.

Why should they not be flat? They could be flat, concave or convex, depending on how they were formed. On small scales, the individual structure of the terrain is much more significant than the shape of the entire earth.

I've seen the video a few times before. It shows the ship going out of sight and coming back in view with magnification. You can also see the mirage of the ship because of refracted sunlight.

None of us truly knows the shape of the earth because I'm sure none on here has been up high enough to see the real shape of the earth. We can only go by what we are told and believe.

Quote from: Ecthelion on April 18, 2016, 12:56:59 PM

Quote from: Yendor on April 18, 2016, 12:39:22 PM

I know there is no sense arguing with you over this, that is why I conducted my own experiments. I've watched ships go completely out of sight on the horizon and I can use binoculars to bring the entire ship in full view again. I honestly believe it will work this way until the atmosphere will no longer allows it.

You "believe" it? What evidence is strong enough to make you believe, but not strong enough to make you know?

Well, in any case, can you tell me what happens in the following video, made by flat earthers?
" class="bbc_link" target="_blank" rel="noopener noreferrer">

No need to listen to it, or even watch most of it. Just look at a few shots of the ship over the course of the video and tell me what you see.

Quote from: Yendor on April 18, 2016, 12:39:22 PM

If the earth curves 8"per mile square, then frozen or not frozen rivers, salt flats and deserts should not be flat. You know they are, you just won't allow yourself to believe it.

Why should they not be flat? They could be flat, concave or convex, depending on how they were formed. On small scales, the individual structure of the terrain is much more significant than the shape of the entire earth.

I've seen the video a few times before. It shows the ship going out of sight and coming back in view with magnification. You can also see the mirage of the ship because of refracted sunlight.

None of us truly knows the shape of the earth because I'm sure none on here has been up high enough to see the real shape of the earth. We can only go by what we are told and believe.

Not true.  We have enough information from here on the ground to deduce the earth's shape. 

You all seem to keep ignoring that, right at this very moment, there is a MOTHERFUCKING SATELLITE whizzing above your head at several miles a second, and nobody is stopping you from tracking it.  And you know what we use to track satellites?  KEPLER ELEMENTS.  That's right, satellites follow ELLIPTICAL ORBITS, and all the elements we need describe CONIC SECTIONS.  You know what else follows Kepler orbits?  Every moon and planet in the solar system, including our own.  You will never, ever be able to describe satellite motion or planetary motion as well as we can.  Game over.  You lost a long time ago. 

I know there is no sense arguing with you over this, that is why I conducted my own experiments. I've watched ships go completely out of sight on the horizon and I can use binoculars to bring the entire ship in full view again. I honestly believe it will work this way until the atmosphere will no longer allows it. If I could only see the super structure of the ship with binoculars, then I would agree with you. You should try it yourself.

If the whole thing was visible with binoculars, then it wasn't visibly 'sunken' to begin with.  It either wasn't beyond the horizon, or it was and superior mirage/refraction was still allowing visibility beyond the curvature.  I've photographed land that was 'sunken' compared to pictures taken from higher up.  Between 1x and 60x, it did not rise up.  Doing so would require the objective lens of whatever you are using to somehow 'get' different light than what is reaching your eye.  This is why there are no videos of something visibly 'sunken' rising up with increasing magnification.

If the earth curves 8"per mile square, then frozen or not frozen rivers, salt flats and deserts should not be flat. You know they are, you just won't allow yourself to believe it.

"Flat" as in zero elevation change? 

Quote from: Yendor on April 18, 2016, 12:39:22 PM

I know there is no sense arguing with you over this, that is why I conducted my own experiments. I've watched ships go completely out of sight on the horizon and I can use binoculars to bring the entire ship in full view again. I honestly believe it will work this way until the atmosphere will no longer allows it. If I could only see the super structure of the ship with binoculars, then I would agree with you. You should try it yourself.

If the whole thing was visible with binoculars, then it wasn't visibly 'sunken' to begin with.  It either wasn't beyond the horizon, or it was and superior mirage/refraction was still allowing visibility beyond the curvature.  I've photographed land that was 'sunken' compared to pictures taken from higher up.  Between 1x and 60x, it did not rise up.  Doing so would require the objective lens of whatever you are using to somehow 'get' different light than what is reaching your eye.  This is why there are no videos of something visibly 'sunken' rising up with increasing magnification.

Quote

If the earth curves 8"per mile square, then frozen or not frozen rivers, salt flats and deserts should not be flat. You know they are, you just won't allow yourself to believe it.

"Flat" as in zero elevation change?

I think the flat earthers are confused about the horizon and this "sinking ship" thing. It may be true that you can "restore" a ship to view if it is ON the horizon but you can't "restore" a ship that has passed OVER or BEYOND the horizon no matter how powerful the telescope. Also look up the definition of the horizon on the flat earth wiki.

I know . I have observed this myself......I can just guess a flat earth reply......"I don't believe this unless I observed it myself. And if you say you've observed it yourself, you're a liar ! "

I've seen the video a few times before. It shows the ship going out of sight and coming back in view with magnification. You can also see the mirage of the ship because of refracted sunlight.

But why does it change color and shape? In the beginning it's a huge red ship. In the end it's just a white box, looking pretty much like the ship's superstructure.

None of us truly knows the shape of the earth because I'm sure none on here has been up high enough to see the real shape of the earth. We can only go by what we are told and believe.

That's not how knowledge works. Humanity would still be living in dirt huts and dying of influenza if everyone thought that way.

I have been reading and reading and researching about FE for a while. I looked at it one day for fun. Then I started doing the 'math'. Nothing was adding up for a globe. I am a Christian and I know that every time someone tries to debunk the Bible, they always find out it is true! The FE model fits the Bible. I would not even consider FE if it did not. But it matches perfectly!

I am a flat Earth theorist, but my friend you are mixing smells and sounds, fruit trees and waterfalls.
Faith deals with things "unseen and hoped for" whilst science deals in empirical and observed data. What did Christ tell St. Thomas when he need "physical proof".

Science can no more prove, or disprove my faith in God than faith can prove, or disprove, the existence of the sun in a scientific way.
That is not to say science does not inform my faith or faith does not inform science- but rather asking science to prove something that requires faith is akin to asking "what color is the smell of a lime?".

This is a trap that both scientist and people of faith fall into. I laugh when a scientific atheist (such as Hawkins) says "Through Science I have proven GOD does NOT exist" . I could just as easily say "through FAITH I have proven Science does not exists".

Both statements are equally meaningless.

Quote from: artfx1 on April 18, 2016, 07:52:07 AM

Really? Nothing adds up for the globe! The thing is, WE are not making the observations, nasa is... I confirm what 'I' see! I am using the Bible as the truth. The scriptures are not vague, but very precise. The conspiracy exists mainly because of the departmentalization of nasa. Only those at the top know the truth. Contractors only do a specific part of a job. They only know what they need to. I will not trust a bunch of freemasons. My grandfather was a mason. I grew up hearing and seeing many strange things. I loved him, but I did not want to be a part of it. Most if not all of the 'astronauts' were/are freemasons. I do the research! Air Force and Navy active and veteran, have come, and are coming forward, with information concerning lack of curve on water, and that all communications are land based, as well as other things they have observed. I definitely think more research should be done. By me...and you.

But it's not just being done by NASA.  There are plenty of other people and organizations that do astronomy as well, including amateurs.  You can get Stellarium and see for yourself. 
The Flat Earth Society has thus far failed to give a well-thought-out explanation for tides and satellites that is consistent with basic observations.  Why do satellites follow what appear to be ellipses?  If we can see other planets and moons also following Kepler orbits around their parent bodies, why do should our satellites function by a completely different mechanism?  No good answers, just "non-Euclidean space" or "aether currents."  Why does the moon always face the earth, as with many other moons in the solar system with their parents?  Why are there two high tides each day?  No good answers from flat earthers, but we know that these effects are due to gravity gradients, which cause the differential tidal force. 
There's no concrete evidence that all the astronauts were freemasons.  However, a lot of them were eagle scouts, that much we know. 
There's plenty of evidence that the surface of the ocean is curved.  This was known since ancient times.  But arguing about that is pointless now that we have satellites to look at.

This simply because you are not willing to abandon, for however a short a period. you presuppositions of a round earth. We have offered many proofs and empirical data.

Quote from: Blue_Moon on April 18, 2016, 08:14:15 AM

Quote from: artfx1 on April 18, 2016, 07:52:07 AM

Really? Nothing adds up for the globe! The thing is, WE are not making the observations, nasa is... I confirm what 'I' see! I am using the Bible as the truth. The scriptures are not vague, but very precise. The conspiracy exists mainly because of the departmentalization of nasa. Only those at the top know the truth. Contractors only do a specific part of a job. They only know what they need to. I will not trust a bunch of freemasons. My grandfather was a mason. I grew up hearing and seeing many strange things. I loved him, but I did not want to be a part of it. Most if not all of the 'astronauts' were/are freemasons. I do the research! Air Force and Navy active and veteran, have come, and are coming forward, with information concerning lack of curve on water, and that all communications are land based, as well as other things they have observed. I definitely think more research should be done. By me...and you.

But it's not just being done by NASA.  There are plenty of other people and organizations that do astronomy as well, including amateurs.  You can get Stellarium and see for yourself. 
The Flat Earth Society has thus far failed to give a well-thought-out explanation for tides and satellites that is consistent with basic observations.  Why do satellites follow what appear to be ellipses?  If we can see other planets and moons also following Kepler orbits around their parent bodies, why do should our satellites function by a completely different mechanism?  No good answers, just "non-Euclidean space" or "aether currents."  Why does the moon always face the earth, as with many other moons in the solar system with their parents?  Why are there two high tides each day?  No good answers from flat earthers, but we know that these effects are due to gravity gradients, which cause the differential tidal force. 
There's no concrete evidence that all the astronauts were freemasons.  However, a lot of them were eagle scouts, that much we know. 
There's plenty of evidence that the surface of the ocean is curved.  This was known since ancient times.  But arguing about that is pointless now that we have satellites to look at.

This simply because you are not willing to abandon, for however a short a period. you presuppositions of a round earth. We have offered many proofs and empirical data.

I've given FES a fair chance, and it has zero valid evidence.  The arguments always dissolve into yelling about the horizon, because you are afraid of the massive amounts of evidence above and below you. 

There's plenty of evidence that the surface of the ocean is curved.  This was known since ancient times.  But arguing about that is pointless now that we have satellites to look at.
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Can you please elaborate on all the evidence supporting a curvature of the oceans surface? 

Quote from: artfx1 on April 18, 2016, 07:52:07 AM

Really? Nothing adds up for the globe! The thing is, WE are not making the observations, nasa is... I confirm what 'I' see! I am using the Bible as the truth. The scriptures are not vague, but very precise. The conspiracy exists mainly because of the departmentalization of nasa. Only those at the top know the truth. Contractors only do a specific part of a job. They only know what they need to. I will not trust a bunch of freemasons. My grandfather was a mason. I grew up hearing and seeing many strange things. I loved him, but I did not want to be a part of it. Most if not all of the 'astronauts' were/are freemasons. I do the research! Air Force and Navy active and veteran, have come, and are coming forward, with information concerning lack of curve on water, and that all communications are land based, as well as other things they have observed. I definitely think more research should be done. By me...and you.

artfx1, I agree with you. I have a dislike for all secret societies. I'm quite aware that NASA was heave with Freemasons during the Apollo missions. The Freemasons will take a secret to the grave, thinking they are doing the right thing. I was in the Navy and worked on missile launching systems and worked hand in hand with the fire control technicians. I know the radar could see surface ships out to at least 25 miles which should be impossible where our radar was situated on the ship. Everyone is looking for a curvature of the earth and they can't see one. Tell me this, what would it look like if we could in fact see the curvature of the earth? Wouldn't we see oceans running over the curved earth like we see when we pour water over a curved ball? We never see that no matter how high up we go.

The shape of the earth has been known for roughly 2,300 years (not 500).

You claim " I know the radar could see surface ships out to at least 25 miles which should be impossible where our radar was situated on the ship". One thing you should note is the with the usual lapse rate the effective daimeter of the earth for radio and radar signal is increased by a factor of about 4/3.
I would agree if you were in little boat with the radar maybe 15' up, but presumably:

• You were in something around the size of a destroyer,
• The height of the radome would be at least 90' above the water-line,
• The height of the target would be at least 60',
• So the radar range would be roughly the range for the 90' (radome height) plua the range for the 60' target, for which I get 10.9 + 13.4 = 24.3 miles

Since I don't know the ship, that's not far off - but I can assure the US Navy knows that the earth is really a Globe!

This is a trap that both scientist and people of faith fall into. I laugh when a scientific atheist (such as Hawkins) says "Through Science I have proven GOD does NOT exist" . I could just as easily say "through FAITH I have proven Science does not exists".

Both statements are equally meaningless.

True. But there is a third category.

In the world of speculation, the scientist is the cartographer of the land. He has the tools and the methods to make the most accurate maps of all there is to be found. But he may not venture forth to the sea, not even look at it, or he may become lost in it. All his tools become useless once he leaves the land of the empirical, and the winds may blow him wherever.

The philosopher, then, is both more free and more circumscribed than the former. He may walk the land and sail the seas, to measure for the scientist the size and boundaries of his domain. But while he sees the land, he must leave the making of maps to the scientist. And he, too, must not venture out of sight of the land. For without the firm foundation of possible experience, he will loose all his way and become lost at sea, unable to return.

Only the theologian dares venture forth out onto the open seas of speculation, without support or instruments, to let faith steer his boat. But while he is, in doing so, the freeest of them all, he also abandons all hope of ever knowing a map of his surroundings. He can only hope that he has chosen the right course, never once knowing that this is so. Neither the scientist nor the philosopher can tell him whether he is right or wrong, and he cannot help them improve their maps.

Well, in any case, can you tell me what happens in the following video, made by flat earthers?
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No need to listen to it, or even watch most of it. Just look at a few shots of the ship over the course of the video and tell me what you see.

That's obvious! But I've never seen a hovercraft that big!

Yes, the only cases I have seen ships reappearing by magnification  is where they have disappeared simply due to distance and have never actually been "over the horizon".

Honestly, the only time an actual shape was mentions was in Job, said the world was a sphere held up by nothing.

In the book Job, the earth is indeed described as "held up by nothing", but not as a sphere. "Held up by nothing" does not indicate a sphere. Anaximander also described the earth as "held up by nothing", yet he believed it was flat.

Other biblical books clearly indicate that the earth is resting on pillars, as was commonly thought in ancient near est. The biblical books were written at various times by authors who had different concepts. Most of them wouldn't even have dreamed about that there writings would once be regarded as holy texts.

Quote from: Babyhighspeed on April 18, 2016, 08:33:53 AM

Honestly, the only time an actual shape was mentions was in Job, said the world was a sphere held up by nothing.

In the book Job, the earth is indeed described as "held up by nothing", but not as a sphere. "Held up by nothing" does not indicate a sphere. Anaximander also described the earth as "held up by nothing", yet he believed it was flat.

Other biblical books clearly indicate that the earth is resting on pillars, as was commonly thought in ancient near est. The biblical books were written at various times by authors who had different concepts. Most of them wouldn't even have dreamed about that there writings would once be regarded as holy texts.

Perhaps I should not have summed it up so quickly. Yes it says earth is held up by nothing, then a few sentences down it speaks of the circle of the earth. As I have stated before, I study the Bible in the original Hebrew to attempt to clear confusion up. However Hebrew is a very irritating language. The " word" for circle here is חוג, which can honestly mean circle, sphere or round.

I have stated before it is obvious Yahweh did not find it important for use to know the shape of the earth. Yehushua re stated so many things from the old testament that was "important", He never said anything about the shape of the earth nor offered any new info in that area.

Also, speaking of pillars, the foundation of the earth, ect ect. If you read it with just the chapter, and especially the entire book. You can tell this style of speaking was used in a metaphorical sense.

I of course want to find out what our world is like that we exist in. However, the Bible is not my motivator in such, nor would it effect my view of the Bible flat, round or triangle.

It seems obvious to me most REers on here live in an academia world and simply deny or won't allow themselves any thought of real life experiences that contradicts what they were taught or what they teach. I too fell into this trap for many years. However, I began to separate fact from fiction and realize that there could possibly be another side to the story. I'm not on here to push an agenda, when I say that I've experienced something I have no reason to lie about it. I didn't tell you the story about my days in the Navy because I was trying to fool you. If anyone on here was in the Navy or know someone who was in the Navy and stationed on a destroyer like myself and worked with fire control radar know if I'm telling the truth or not. Anyone can standing on a beach and looking out over the ocean and see ships go out of sight and grab a pair of binoculars and see the ship come back in view. I've experienced these things and many more. So, I'm not lying I'm just saying what I've experienced. If you don't believe me so be it. There is no need to be so combative about it.

It seems obvious to me most REers on here live in an academia world and simply deny or won't allow themselves any thought of real life experiences that contradicts what they were taught or what they teach. I too fell into this trap for many years. However, I began to separate fact from fiction and realize that there could possibly be another side to the story. I'm not on here to push an agenda, when I say that I've experienced something I have no reason to lie about it. I didn't tell you the story about my days in the Navy because I was trying to fool you. If anyone on here was in the Navy or know someone who was in the Navy and stationed on a destroyer like myself and worked with fire control radar know if I'm telling the truth or not. Anyone can standing on a beach and looking out over the ocean and see ships go out of sight and grab a pair of binoculars and see the ship come back in view. I've experienced these things and many more. So, I'm not lying I'm just saying what I've experienced. If you don't believe me so be it. There is no need to be so combative about it.

Guess what?  Anyone with a pair of binoculars can track the satellites that are flying above the earth right now.  And as long as you believe in a flat earth, you will never be able to describe their motions to the extent that we can.  We can describe and predict effectively anything that orbits the earth, sun, Jupiter, or anything else in the solar system with just six Kepler elements.  The best you can do is make vague statements like "that's how non-euclidean space above the earth is shaped" or "aether currents move them around like that."  And not only do those statements completely lack mathematical or observational support, but they still can't explain all the different types of orbits.  Satellites are absolute, definitive proof that the earth is round and gravity exists, and no amount of bitching about the horizon or dark matter will ever change that.