Help for FEers - dual Earth model

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Jadyyn

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Help for FEers - dual Earth model
« on: April 13, 2016, 09:48:41 AM »
Simply put, the sky and heavens DO NOT WORK with ANY FE model where everyone lives on one side of it. Period.

Rotation, Axis, 2 Points

First, Geometry 101.

Any rotating body has an Axis of Rotation - a line between 2 points ("North Pole" (NP) and "South Pole" (SP)). I will use 3 examples.

1) A sphere. Take a ball and rotate it on your finger. On top you will see a SINGLE point - NP. On the bottom (your finger), you have a SINGLE point - SP. At its widest, you have its equator.

2) A disk/plane. Take a dish and rotate it on your finger or stick. On top you will see a SINGLE point - NP. On the bottom (your finger), you have a SINGLE point - SP. At its widest, you have its equator.

3) Disk flip. Take a coin and flip it. On one edge you will have a SINGLE point - NP. On the opposite edge you will have a SINGLE point - SP. At its widest, you will have its equator.

"Motion is Relative"

Second, if you take those shapes and make THEM stationary, the sky/heavens (you) will appear to rotate around an observer on the surface. The Axis of Rotation REMAINS THE SAME (NP - SP). 2 new SINGLE points appear in the sky/heavens. The "North Celestial Pole" (NCP) above the NP. The "South Celestial Pole" (SCP) above the SP. The Celestial Equator (CE) will be above the object's equator.

What works and doesn't work

1) Sphere. This WORKS. Above a SINGLE point NP, you have a SINGLE point NCP (center of northern star trails ~Polaris). Above a SINGLE point SP, you have a SINGLE point SCP (center of southern star trails ~Sigma Octantis). The CE is above the equator.

2) Disk/Plane. This DOES NOT WORK. Above a SINGLE point NP, you have a SINGLE point NCP (center of northern star trails ~Polaris) - good... But, the SCP is above the true SP, BELOW the NP, UNDERNEATH the Earth. This CAN NOT be seen from above the disk/plane. The CE is NOT between the NP and Antarctica but is the EDGE of the disk beyond Antarctica. There is no place on Earth that is a SINGLE point that the SCP can be above.

3) Disk flip. This DOES NOT WORK. Above a SINGLE point NP, you have a SINGLE point NCP (center of northern star trails ~Polaris). Above a SINGLE point SP, you have a SINGLE point SCP (center of southern star trails ~Sigma Octantis). The CE is above the equator... BUT... the sky/heavens/Sun/Moon etc. would only appear for 12 hrs EVERYWHERE on Earth then disappear for 12 hrs EVERYWHERE on Earth. Also, the land masses on the surface are wrong.

Conclusion

A disk/plane with people living on just one side does not work. The sky/heavens are all wrong. You ABSOLUTELY MUST have a SINGLE point SP on the Earth (with its corresponding SCP in the sky). Therefore, FEers (The FE Society), must get rid of this type of model.

Therefore, the FE MUST have people/land masses/etc. on BOTH sides - a dual Earth model. At least JRowe is going "in the right direction".

Furthermore, discussions of UA, sunsets/sunrises, travel distances, etc. are worthless when the basic model is demonstrably wrong. What is the point of debating "how many angels can dance on the head of a pin" when there is no "pin"?
« Last Edit: April 13, 2016, 09:51:50 AM by Jadyyn »
“If you can't dazzle them with brilliance, baffle them with bullshit.” W.C. Fields.
"The amount of energy necessary to refute bullshit is an order of magnitude bigger than to produce it."
"What can be asserted without evidence can be dismissed without evidence."

Re: Help for FEers - dual Earth model
« Reply #1 on: May 19, 2016, 06:46:27 PM »
I'm so glad you linked that. So the dual earth theory thinks that the moon roates and those bring its phases? Do you have a telescope? Really your own eyes will show that the dark spots on the moon never rotate. Nor do the crater. Ive given impericle evidence that the earth is round And disproved the ones that belong in a good fantasy book
« Last Edit: May 19, 2016, 07:56:18 PM by Floyds123 »

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Luke 22:35-38

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Re: Help for FEers - dual Earth model
« Reply #2 on: May 19, 2016, 06:54:27 PM »
How DARE you try to call up JRoeskepic from hell! He's cursed!
The Bible doesn't support a flat earth.

Scripture, facts, science, stats, and logic is how I argue.

Re: Help for FEers - dual Earth model
« Reply #3 on: May 19, 2016, 08:03:37 PM »
Once again you say the old FE maps are wrong but dual model is the right one..mind you those phases on the moon have a nice curve on them, I will once again reitterate they believe the moon rotates..show me this. Because I can show you it doesn't by taking a photo of it everyday for a month and you will see the dark spots are and always have been in the same location relative to earth. Tital lock. Cause the moon orbits earth our gravity keeps the moon from rotating.
« Last Edit: May 19, 2016, 08:19:11 PM by Floyds123 »

Re: Help for FEers - dual Earth model
« Reply #4 on: May 20, 2016, 06:09:19 AM »
Once again you say the old FE maps are wrong but dual model is the right one..

Equatorial telescopes. On a Dual Earth people near the equator still wouldn't be able to see the stars of the other hemisphere. Also, the same edge distortions exist, just to a lesser extent.
Quote
mind you those phases on the moon have a nice curve on them, I will once again reitterate they believe the moon rotates..show me this. Because I can show you it doesn't by taking a photo of it everyday for a month and you will see the dark spots are and always have been in the same location relative to earth. Tital lock.
Yes, the moon has the same rotation period as its revolution period, because of tidal locking.
Quote
Cause the moon orbits earth our gravity keeps the moon from rotating.
You used tidal locking to claim the moon can't rotate, and have absolutely no idea what tidal locking is.
Quote from: en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tidal_locking
Tidal locking (also called gravitational locking or captured rotation) occurs when the gravitational gradient makes one hemisphere of a revolving astronomical body constantly face the partner body. This effect is known as synchronous rotation. A tidally locked body takes just as long to rotate around its own axis as it does to revolve around its partner.

If you're going to try to disprove something, do please have a clue what you're talking about.
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Wow, great non-response
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Your first mistake was to presume there would be an academic debate anywhere on this forum.

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Jadyyn

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Re: Help for FEers - dual Earth model
« Reply #5 on: May 20, 2016, 09:13:30 AM »
Once again you say the old FE maps are wrong but dual model is the right one..mind you those phases on the moon have a nice curve on them, I will once again reitterate they believe the moon rotates..show me this. Because I can show you it doesn't by taking a photo of it everyday for a month and you will see the dark spots are and always have been in the same location relative to earth. Tital lock. Cause the moon orbits earth our gravity keeps the moon from rotating.
Um, if you check my threads/posts over the past several months, the dual Earth concept doesn't work either. It DOES have a S.Pole and a S. Celestial Pole - a step in the right direction. That is what I mean by at least the FE model must START with people living on both sides (dual Earth) to even be considered viable. No S.Celestial Pole - no FE model. Period.

Then come the various and sundry problems associated with it. How does the Sun and Moon work? How do you travel from one side to the other? How does "gravity" work (can't use UA)? How do seismic waves work (S-waves can't travel through liquid. On a FE, you would have lava underneath everywhere basically blocking S-waves from reaching the other side. We record them on the opposite side of the Earth. How? Also, the opposite side of the Earth wouldn't be right - the closer to the equator the more not the opposite side of the Earth it would be.)? ... and so on ...

JRowe's model has Aether that does EVERYTHING ("gravity", "teleporting" people from one side to the other, making the sky look right). Of course it can not be demonstrated to exist or perform these functions. Like current FE models, the model doesn't know where anything is on it (you, cities, planes, etc.) so can not demonstrate or produce any evidence. His Sun, Moon and planets are INSIDE the Earth somewhere. He doesn't know where. Somehow eclipses happen and Moon phases occur correctly. Lots of hand-waving and ad hoc contradictory explanations. It doesn't work either.

On a spherical Earth, people on the equator are "horizontal" (if you have the N.Pole up and S.Pole down). They stand perpendicular to the surface of the sphere. One HUGE problem is that on a FE, people are "vertical" everywhere even near the equator. This causes MASSIVE problems when viewing the sky/heavens.

What people will find is that the closer any FE model is to a heliocentric spherical model, the more it answers questions that the spherical model answers naturally. FE models need to mimic spherical model properties - something I find really funny. Why go to all the trouble and imaginative explanations on a FE when a spherical model answers them naturally? This is why a dual FE > single FE (at least from a S.Celestial Pole perspective).
« Last Edit: May 20, 2016, 09:38:22 AM by Jadyyn »
“If you can't dazzle them with brilliance, baffle them with bullshit.” W.C. Fields.
"The amount of energy necessary to refute bullshit is an order of magnitude bigger than to produce it."
"What can be asserted without evidence can be dismissed without evidence."