Give me your top ten proofs for a globe earth

  • 86 Replies
  • 8718 Views
*

wise

  • Professor
  • Flat Earth Scientist
  • 20570
  • To Us Everywhere Flat Earth
Give me your top ten proofs for a globe earth
« on: April 13, 2016, 12:27:19 AM »
Simple. List ten reasons we know that the earth is globe.

Ken said that: "attack me if you dare i will crush you"  :D
Ignore list: boydster, Bullwinkle, Crouton, DuckDodgers, Hamzah, JackBlack, jdaniel0319, Junker, Jura-Glenlivet II, magellanclavichord, Mundin, NotSoSkeptical, rabinoz

*

Blue_Moon

  • 846
  • Defender of NASA
Re: Give me your top ten proofs for a globe earth
« Reply #1 on: April 13, 2016, 01:50:18 AM »
Simple. List ten reasons we know that the earth is globe.

Ken said that: "attack me if you dare i will crush you"  :D

Fine, I'll bite.  Here are some of mine off the top of my head. 

Satellites
You can observe them yourself, following Kepler orbits.  You can define their paths with parameters that describe ellipses.  The same can be said about moons' orbits around planets (including Earth) and about Earth's orbit around the Sun. 
Each satellite's orbit is carefully chosen for the task at hand.  The ISS is in an orbit that makes it easier to reach from both Cape Canaveral and Baikonur Cosmodrome.  Iridium satellites follow polar orbits and provide phone coverage to the entire surface of the earth.  GPS satellites follow semi-synchronous, carefully spaced orbits that keep at least 6 visible at a time from anywhere on earth.  Molniya satellites follow semi-synchronous, highly eccentric, orbits that allow them to provide extended communications service over higher latitudes.  Geosynchronous and geostationary satellites offer continuous coverage over a specific part of the earth, especially for lower latitudes.  There are other types as well, and none of them can be explained on a flat earth, either with aether currents or non-euclidean space. 

Tides
We have two high and low ocean tides each lunar day.  We know that they are caused by the gravity gradients of the moon and the sun.  We know that this effect is why the moon always faces the earth, and many moons in the solar system face their parent bodies.  We know that tides cannot be caused by atmospheric pressure, because the atmospheric tides follow the solar day more strongly than the lunar day due to UV heating. 


Seismology
Our seismographs pick up tremors that are happening all over the world.  The paths that the tremors follow can only be described with a spherical earth.  We also observe the existence of P-wave and S-wave shadow zones, which occur between about 104° and 140° from the epicenter for P-waves, and beyond 104° for S-waves.  These are due to refraction from the earth's mantle and core. 


Seismic tomography
This field is a subset of seismology.  It is concerned with using readings from several seismographs over a wide area to study structures in the earth's mantle.  Not exactly huge proof, but the point is we have a very good idea of what's going on beneath our feet. 


Conspiracy implausibility
It's highly implausible to think that NASA could be hiding the shape of the earth.  You seem to think that they take their money, pocket some of it, and do a satanic ritual with the rest to summon their rockets.  This couldn't be further from the truth.  NASA's budget goes mostly to contractors.  Things go wrong which can sometimes be traced back to the contractors.  Now, if NASA was just sending rockets into the ocean as part of a huge act, how would those honest mistakes ever have a chance to happen?  NASA would have to let them all in on the conspiracy and try to indoctrinate them, because they would find out anyway.  And as Benjamin Franklin once said, "two can keep a secret if one of them is dead."  If NASA was keeping secrets, they wouldn't stay secret for long.  And NASA is just one organization among all the other space agencies, aerospace companies, and the entire scientific community. 

There's much more, and I could go on, but I think I'll leave it here for now. 
Aerospace Engineering Student
NASA Enthusiast
Round Earth Advocate
More qualified to speak for NASA than you are to speak against them

Re: Give me your top ten proofs for a globe earth
« Reply #2 on: April 13, 2016, 02:36:39 AM »
Path of the sun measured from various locations and different times of the day.  Simple.

?

Woody

  • 1144
Re: Give me your top ten proofs for a globe earth
« Reply #3 on: April 13, 2016, 02:51:42 AM »
You must have read the below many times:

Ships appearing to rise or sink at the horizon.  Perspective is not the answer since it does not cause things to appear or disappear from the bottom up.

Tides that correlate to the position of the sun and moon.

Eclipses.

Planets in retrograde.

Can observe the ISS.

Sun rises and sets.

Visibility of stars and angle from horizon.

Other planets and their moons are spheres.

Tectonic plates.

Pictures and videos.

Accurate maps and GPS navigation based on a globe.

Celestial navigation works and uses math that assumes the Earth is a sphere.

Satellite TV.

Phases of the moon.

Moon appearing different depending on the observers location in relation to the equator.

2,000 plus years of observations and experiments validating the fact the Earth is a sphereroid.

Engineers designing things that work successfully while assuming the Earth is round.

Ability to make reliable and accurate predictions based on a round Earth model. Such as tides, eclipses, other planets' locations, continental drift, tidal loading, Earth tides, etc.


*

Slemon

  • Flat Earth Researcher
  • 11690
Re: Give me your top ten proofs for a globe earth
« Reply #4 on: April 13, 2016, 02:55:19 AM »
To flesh out what Inquisitive is saying, (because honestly, your posts are often far too short and hasty to be a clear argument), a sixth argument would be that the path of the Sun on the typical FE map would mean the very shape of the Sun would be altering wildly, and that the length of a day in the southern hemisphere should always be shorter as there's more space for it to cover. Plus, when the Sun's further out (the variation in the radius of its orbit being the explanation for seasons), it would by necessity be travelling much faster. We don't observe this.

Argument 7: at both poles, 24 hour Sun and near-24 hour Sun may be observed. That is, the Sun is visible for most of the day, despite the fact if sunlight reached one point on the ice wall for that long, it would need to illuminate nearly all of the world.

Argument 8: the Coriolis force, a force in opposite directions in each hemisphere, is a major part of a lot of things. Most interestingly, from my perspective, is weather prediction: the maths checks out, and taking into account the rotation of the Earth (in a fashion that couldn't easily occur on a FE as there would be no discernible way for the force to reverse directions depending on where you stand) you can quite literally predict the future. The fact we can predict the weather with some degree of success (especially given the equations relied on are so advanced we don't even have proof that there is a solution) based on the predictions of RET would seem to refute FET: how could a lie have successfully  repeatable, measurable, and testable consequences?

I'll let someone else manage 9 and 10. There are a whole wealth of others. Flight times, distances that can't exist on a flat surface, Eratosphenes' experiment giving constant curvature or a wildly varying distance to the Sun, ship on the horizon without and waves high enough to block the ship...

*

wise

  • Professor
  • Flat Earth Scientist
  • 20570
  • To Us Everywhere Flat Earth
Re: Give me your top ten proofs for a globe earth
« Reply #5 on: April 13, 2016, 03:29:12 AM »
Path of the sun measured from various locations and different times of the day.  Simple.

Path of the sun proved that the sun is close about 5.000 miles to earth and didnt prove anyting else.
There are numerous measurements made ​​on this issue and all proves that the world is flat . Just they needed to searched and finded by you.
Ignore list: boydster, Bullwinkle, Crouton, DuckDodgers, Hamzah, JackBlack, jdaniel0319, Junker, Jura-Glenlivet II, magellanclavichord, Mundin, NotSoSkeptical, rabinoz

*

rabinoz

  • 24849
  • Real Earth Believer
Re: Give me your top ten proofs for a globe earth
« Reply #6 on: April 13, 2016, 04:26:48 AM »
Argument 9: The circumference of the earth south of the equator is less than the circumference at the equator and the further south, the smaller the circumference.
I have direct measurements for one latitude in Australia, and values from quite early (1855) but accurate maps for latitudes from 10° south down to about 35° south.

This is not possible on any Flat Earth map (except the DET map). On the usual Flat Earth map even the equator is far larger than the accepted value of a bit over 10,000 km.

?

Jadyyn

  • 1533
Re: Give me your top ten proofs for a globe earth
« Reply #7 on: April 13, 2016, 07:11:24 AM »
The heavens on a spherical Earth are correct - on a disk/plane are wrong.

The S. Celestial Pole (SCP) is not visible on any flat surface, disk or plane. It is underneath the N.Pole UNDER the Earth. It can not be seen above the Earth. On a sphere, it is directly above the S.Pole, a single point on Earth.

The SCP can not be RISING higher and higher as you go farther and farther south of the equator. When you face the SCP, you are facing due south EVERYWHERE on Earth. The stars BELOW the SCP are on the other side of the Earth from you. On a sphere, that is OK. On a disk, you are looking at stars 10,000+ mi BEHIND you.

The farthest north the Sun goes is the Tropic of Cancer (23.5° N). The farthest south the Sun goes is the Tropic of Capricorn (23.5° S). On a sphere, both are the same length. The Sun moves the same speed across the sky. On a disk, the Tropic of Capricorn is almost 2x the length of the Tropic of Cancer. To go around in 24 hrs, the Sun would have to move at 2x the speed in the sky. This does not happen.

Sunrise/sunset on a sphere is simply the Sun going up/down as the Earth spins. On a disk, it has never been explained how on the equinox, although EVERYONE sees the Sun rising/setting due east/west, why this happens when the Sun is 1/4 of the Earth away NE/NW (it gets worse the farther south you go). Does light really bend THAT much over a few thousand miles?

The stars have coordinates, specifically declination (sky). This matches latitude (Earth) EXACTLY. For example, a star at 40° N declination, in 24 hrs, describes the 40° N latitude on Earth. This means (1) at the N.Pole, there is a SINGLE point 90°, (2) at the S.Pole, there is a SINGLE point 90°, (3) declination/latitude circles INCREASE in size going from the N.Pole to the equator, (4) they DECREASE going from the equator to the S.Pole. This demonstrates the Earth is symmetrical and a sphere. It can not happen on a disk/plane.

Equatorially mounted telescopes are aligned to point at the N.Celestial Pole/S.Celestial Pole AND be parallel to the axis of the Earth/sky rotation so 1 motor can track the sky. These correspond to the observer's latitude EXACTLY. On the equator, they are perfectly horizontal (0°). At Denver, CO ("mile high" city 5280 ft above sea-level), they are 40° (how can a telescope point horizontally on the beach near Quito, Ecuador and in Denver point 40° UP and be 1 mi above sea-level, and BOTH point at the NCP?) At the Poles, they are 90°. This has been done for DECADES. The only shape *I* know of that matches these attributes is a sphere. This is a direct proof the Earth is spherical.

The ISS, with pictures of it against the Sun and Moon, can be measured/demonstrated to be 250 mi above the Earth. It is in orbit.

Geosynchronous/geostationary satellites that dish TV companies use can be measured/demonstrated to be ~42,000 km in altitude.
« Last Edit: April 13, 2016, 07:21:43 AM by Jadyyn »
“If you can't dazzle them with brilliance, baffle them with bullshit.” W.C. Fields.
"The amount of energy necessary to refute bullshit is an order of magnitude bigger than to produce it."
"What can be asserted without evidence can be dismissed without evidence."

Re: Give me your top ten proofs for a globe earth
« Reply #8 on: April 13, 2016, 08:34:50 AM »
I'll go with argument 10. Visible horizon recedes with altitude, even when moving away from the horizon.

My first hand example while out walking last weekend. If I stand on Redcar beach looking North West, I can see across the Tees estuary to Hartlepool, possibly a little further depending on how close to the shoreline I am, and how far the tide is in. About 5-6 miles, give or take.

If I move 10 miles inland South East to Lingdale, which is a few hundred feet above sea-level, I can see all the way to Sunderland and the coastline north of the Wear around Whitburn - over 30 miles distant. I can follow the coast along until it disappears under the horizon of the sea.

This is first hand evidence for a Globe Earth, and directly contradicts a Flat Earth.
I made up some completely random sh!te on the Flat Earth Society forum and now I feel completely and utterly EPIC!!!

Re: Give me your top ten proofs for a globe earth
« Reply #9 on: April 13, 2016, 10:36:13 AM »
Path of the sun measured from various locations and different times of the day.  Simple.
Path of the sun proved that the sun is close about 5.000 miles to earth and didnt prove anyting else.
Can you give an example for at least one such "proof"?

Quote
There are numerous measurements made ​​on this issue and all proves that the world is flat . Just they needed to searched and finded by you.
There aren't any. Most (but not all) of such claims (not proofs) I've seen say about 3000 miles, not 5000 miles, but even those vary, and the measurements and techniques I've seen described are wrong, e.g.  Rowbotham's Earth Not a Globe, Section 3, pp.72-74 (pdf file pp.79-81) as well as a hit parade of others in a recent Q&A thread.
"Everyone is entitled to his own opinion, but not to his own facts." - Daniel Patrick Moynihan

*

Luke 22:35-38

  • 3598
  • The earth is a globe, DUH! prove its not
Re: Give me your top ten proofs for a globe earth
« Reply #10 on: April 13, 2016, 12:00:44 PM »
I made the exact same thread awhile ago but its dead. Oh well. It's good to start a fresh.
The Bible doesn't support a flat earth.

Scripture, facts, science, stats, and logic is how I argue.

*

Wildbillnye

  • 4
  • You can't see Polaris in St Johannesburg.
Re: Give me your top ten proofs for a globe earth
« Reply #11 on: April 13, 2016, 01:59:37 PM »
You can't see polaris in st. Johannesburg.
On first day of summer on equator, the sun goes in a perfect east to west arc, would be unobsevable on a flat earth with a sun 5000 miles away traveling in a circle.

Re: Give me your top ten proofs for a globe earth
« Reply #12 on: April 13, 2016, 04:06:45 PM »
From what I've seen so far, Globe Earth has alot of support, and also some problems. Also, Flat Earth has both alot of evidence support, and some problems.
Alot of supposed Globe evidence uses spurious correlations, where they assert a questionable cause-effect relationship which doesn't necessarily support globe earth. but it appears to on first glance.
My question, if globe earth is such a fundamental reality, why can't it be proven more definitively? Especially with all of the tech we are supposed to have... Such a big assertion requires big evidence, and so far the amount of actual support for globe earth falls short of the 'gravity' of the claim.
Yes, burden of proof falls onto globe helio theory. And it's going to take more definitive proof than anything I've seen so far.
Even though flat earth can't be definitely proven yet either, there is atleast too much solid evidence that contradicts globe helio theory, to not question it. Enough to make any realist take a step back and reanalyze.
I am yet undecided but let me say I find it indefensible to fully accept globe theory and simultaneously talk down to people who are really looking for truth instead of unfounded presumptions.

That said, if anybody has any proof that the earth is a globe, I will give it full unbiased consideration.

*

Blue_Moon

  • 846
  • Defender of NASA
Re: Give me your top ten proofs for a globe earth
« Reply #13 on: April 13, 2016, 04:15:58 PM »
From what I've seen so far, Globe Earth has alot of support, and also some problems. Also, Flat Earth has both alot of evidence support, and some problems.
Alot of supposed Globe evidence uses spurious correlations, where they assert a questionable cause-effect relationship which doesn't necessarily support globe earth. but it appears to on first glance.
My question, if globe earth is such a fundamental reality, why can't it be proven more definitively? Especially with all of the tech we are supposed to have... Such a big assertion requires big evidence, and so far the amount of actual support for globe earth falls short of the 'gravity' of the claim.
Yes, burden of proof falls onto globe helio theory. And it's going to take more definitive proof than anything I've seen so far.
Even though flat earth can't be definitely proven yet either, there is atleast too much solid evidence that contradicts globe helio theory, to not question it. Enough to make any realist take a step back and reanalyze.
I am yet undecided but let me say I find it indefensible to fully accept globe theory and simultaneously talk down to people who are really looking for truth instead of unfounded presumptions.

That said, if anybody has any proof that the earth is a globe, I will give it full unbiased consideration.

Try scrolling up and looking at my reply. 
Aerospace Engineering Student
NASA Enthusiast
Round Earth Advocate
More qualified to speak for NASA than you are to speak against them

?

Jadyyn

  • 1533
Re: Give me your top ten proofs for a globe earth
« Reply #14 on: April 13, 2016, 08:22:41 PM »
From what I've seen so far, Globe Earth has alot of support, and also some problems. Also, Flat Earth has both alot of evidence support, and some problems.
Alot of supposed Globe evidence uses spurious correlations, where they assert a questionable cause-effect relationship which doesn't necessarily support globe earth. but it appears to on first glance.
My question, if globe earth is such a fundamental reality, why can't it be proven more definitively? Especially with all of the tech we are supposed to have... Such a big assertion requires big evidence, and so far the amount of actual support for globe earth falls short of the 'gravity' of the claim.
Yes, burden of proof falls onto globe helio theory. And it's going to take more definitive proof than anything I've seen so far.
Even though flat earth can't be definitely proven yet either, there is atleast too much solid evidence that contradicts globe helio theory, to not question it. Enough to make any realist take a step back and reanalyze.
I am yet undecided but let me say I find it indefensible to fully accept globe theory and simultaneously talk down to people who are really looking for truth instead of unfounded presumptions.

That said, if anybody has any proof that the earth is a globe, I will give it full unbiased consideration.
Aligning Equatorially Mounted Telescopes is a DIRECT proof the Earth is spherical. To track the sky with 1 motor, the base of the telescope MUST point at the Celestial Pole (north in the northern hemisphere, south in the southern). It also MUST be parallel with the Earth/sky axis (N.Pole to S.Pole, N.Celestial Pole to S.Celestial Pole). It corresponds EXACTLY to an observer's latitude. There is only ONE shape that does this (and it ain't a flat earth). It is a sphere. See this picture:


Furthermore, this has been done for DECADES even by the biggest telescopes (like the Palomar 200" one). The alignment is typically to minutes (rough alignment) or seconds (fine alignment) of arc - VERY precise. The alignment of 1000's of equatorially mounted telescopes around the world is the Eratosthenes Experiment done everywhere everyday to minutes or seconds of arc. It DEFINITELY, WITHOUT QUESTION, demonstrates the Earth is spherical. A FE CAN NOT do it.

A FE CAN NOT work because to be parallel to the axis of the Earth/sky, the mount would need to be VERTICAL EVERYWHERE on Earth. It isn't. On the equator it is HORIZONTAL. The Poles are the ONLY place on Earth it is VERTICAL. If the telescope is HORIZONTAL at the equator (Quito, Ecuador - beach west of it on the Pacific), this implies the Celestial Pole is like 3' off the ground (the height of the mount)!!! But in Denver, CO (the "mile high" city 5280 ft above sea-level), the telescope must point 40° UP at the Celestial Pole. So... how does the telescope, a mile above sea-level point 40° UP at ~Polaris in Denver when it is 3' above sea-level as view from a beach west of Quito, Ecuador (on a Flat Earth)? BTW, Polaris would also be 3' above the ground as viewed from the beach as well.

The people who have done astronomy can't even fathom how an equatorially mounted telescope could work on a FE... but they DO work on Earth.

Sorry, but as I keep saying, amateur astronomy (visual/photographic) either proves/supports or disproves/falsifies/destroys/annihilates Earth models. It can not be faked.
“If you can't dazzle them with brilliance, baffle them with bullshit.” W.C. Fields.
"The amount of energy necessary to refute bullshit is an order of magnitude bigger than to produce it."
"What can be asserted without evidence can be dismissed without evidence."

*

Poko

  • 216
Re: Give me your top ten proofs for a globe earth
« Reply #15 on: April 14, 2016, 01:00:26 AM »
I'll copy and paste my response to the thread from a few months ago since I never got a proper response.

1. Objects going past the horizon disappear from the bottom up. They don't shrink because they are getting farther away, they are going under the horizon line.
2. The moon and sun set under the horizon. If the Earth were a flat disc, this would mean that they are going underneath the disc.
3. You can change when sunrise and sunset occur simply by changing your altitude. Go to Dubai, watch the sunset, take an elevator to the top of Burj Khalifa, and watch the sunset again.
4. The sun is always up somewhere, meaning that the sun can't be under the disc. This presents a conflict with point 2.
5. The stars visible from the northern hemisphere are different from the stars visible from the southern hemisphere.
6. In the northern hemisphere, the stars appear to revolve around Polaris. In the southern hemisphere, stars appear to revolve around Sigma Octantis. On a flat Earth the stars would all appear to revolve around the same point.
7. Commercial tours to the South Pole are available starting from Punta Arenas, Chile, and Cape Town, South Africa. Start from Chile, have your friend start from South Africa, and you will both arrive at the same place. Bring a compass with you to ensure that your boat goes due south and you aren't being brought to a fake South Pole.
8. The International Space Station is visible from the ground. http://spotthestation.nasa.gov/sightings/ will tell you exactly when and where to look. You can even communicate with the station with a radio if you have the technological know-how.
9. Different points on the Earth have measurably different gravitational acceleration. This is to be expected since the Earth is not a perfect sphere and is spinning.
10. There are unaltered, non-composite photographs of the Earth from space which show its curvature.

You don't have to refute them all, just pick one or two and we can discuss them. Or refute all ten, whatever floats your boat.
"In the fall of 1972 President Nixon announced that the rate of increase of inflation was decreasing. This was the first time a sitting president used the third derivative to advance his case for reelection." - Hugo Rossi

*

wise

  • Professor
  • Flat Earth Scientist
  • 20570
  • To Us Everywhere Flat Earth
Re: Give me your top ten proofs for a globe earth
« Reply #16 on: April 14, 2016, 03:28:31 AM »
Simple. List ten reasons we know that the earth is globe.

Ken said that: "attack me if you dare i will crush you"  :D

Fine, I'll bite.  Here are some of mine off the top of my head. 

Satellites
You can observe them yourself, following Kepler orbits.  You can define their paths with parameters that describe ellipses.  The same can be said about moons' orbits around planets (including Earth) and about Earth's orbit around the Sun. 
Each satellite's orbit is carefully chosen for the task at hand.  The ISS is in an orbit that makes it easier to reach from both Cape Canaveral and Baikonur Cosmodrome.  Iridium satellites follow polar orbits and provide phone coverage to the entire surface of the earth.  GPS satellites follow semi-synchronous, carefully spaced orbits that keep at least 6 visible at a time from anywhere on earth.  Molniya satellites follow semi-synchronous, highly eccentric, orbits that allow them to provide extended communications service over higher latitudes.  Geosynchronous and geostationary satellites offer continuous coverage over a specific part of the earth, especially for lower latitudes.  There are other types as well, and none of them can be explained on a flat earth, either with aether currents or non-euclidean space. 

Tides
We have two high and low ocean tides each lunar day.  We know that they are caused by the gravity gradients of the moon and the sun.  We know that this effect is why the moon always faces the earth, and many moons in the solar system face their parent bodies.  We know that tides cannot be caused by atmospheric pressure, because the atmospheric tides follow the solar day more strongly than the lunar day due to UV heating. 


Seismology
Our seismographs pick up tremors that are happening all over the world.  The paths that the tremors follow can only be described with a spherical earth.  We also observe the existence of P-wave and S-wave shadow zones, which occur between about 104° and 140° from the epicenter for P-waves, and beyond 104° for S-waves.  These are due to refraction from the earth's mantle and core. 


Seismic tomography
This field is a subset of seismology.  It is concerned with using readings from several seismographs over a wide area to study structures in the earth's mantle.  Not exactly huge proof, but the point is we have a very good idea of what's going on beneath our feet. 


Conspiracy implausibility
It's highly implausible to think that NASA could be hiding the shape of the earth.  You seem to think that they take their money, pocket some of it, and do a satanic ritual with the rest to summon their rockets.  This couldn't be further from the truth.  NASA's budget goes mostly to contractors.  Things go wrong which can sometimes be traced back to the contractors.  Now, if NASA was just sending rockets into the ocean as part of a huge act, how would those honest mistakes ever have a chance to happen?  NASA would have to let them all in on the conspiracy and try to indoctrinate them, because they would find out anyway.  And as Benjamin Franklin once said, "two can keep a secret if one of them is dead."  If NASA was keeping secrets, they wouldn't stay secret for long.  And NASA is just one organization among all the other space agencies, aerospace companies, and the entire scientific community. 

There's much more, and I could go on, but I think I'll leave it here for now.

Satellites

The sattelites routes are moves on a basic circle on the flat map. this more understandable than the other .



Your reason of the sattelites are debunked.

Tides

“If the moon lifted up the water, it is evident that near the land, the water would be drawn away and low instead of high tide caused. Again, the velocity and path of the moon are uniform, and it follows that if she exerted any influence on the earth, that influence could only be a uniform influence. But the tides are not uniform. At Port Natal the rise and fall is about 6 feet, while at Beira, about 600 miles up the coast, the rise and fall is 26 feet. This effectually settles the matter that the moon has no influence on the tides. Tides are caused by the gentle and gradual rise and fall of the earth on the bosom of the mighty deep. In inland lakes, there are no tides; which also proves that the moon cannot attract either the earth or water to cause tides. But the fact that the basin of the lake is on the earth which rests on the waters of the deep shows that no tides are possible, as the waters of the lakes together with the earth rise and fall, and thus the tides at the coast are caused; while there are no tides on waters unconnected with the sea.” -Thomas Winship, “Zetetic Cosmogeny” (130-131)

Your reason of the tides are debunked.

According we debunk the first two, not necessary to look the others.

You are out. Give me a time to look to the other unintelligent people except you.


« Last Edit: April 14, 2016, 03:33:23 AM by İntikam »
Ignore list: boydster, Bullwinkle, Crouton, DuckDodgers, Hamzah, JackBlack, jdaniel0319, Junker, Jura-Glenlivet II, magellanclavichord, Mundin, NotSoSkeptical, rabinoz

*

wise

  • Professor
  • Flat Earth Scientist
  • 20570
  • To Us Everywhere Flat Earth
Re: Give me your top ten proofs for a globe earth
« Reply #17 on: April 14, 2016, 04:03:28 AM »
1-
You must have read the below many times:

Ships appearing to rise or sink at the horizon.  Perspective is not the answer since it does not cause things to appear or disappear from the bottom up.

The sink of the horizon is not enought for a sphere shape. Sometimes we see dozens of the miles to continue to see the ship before they disappear from the bottom.

2-
Tides that correlate to the position of the sun and moon.

Tides don't proves anything. It caused by The movement of the earth's crust

3-

Eclipses.

Eclipses shows the earth and the moon always has same size and turning around the earth. If the moon orbit had been exchanged between 384.000 kms and 406.000 kms, it must be so different sizes when the eclipses done. But everytime at the eclipse the moon and the sun is the same size!

This proves the earth is flat.

4-

Planets in retrograde.

There is no planet. They are dead stars.

5-

Can observe the ISS.


ISS is fake. It has about 200-600 kilometres altitude and not out of the atmospher. Atmospher is 10.000 km high. So it is not in the space. It is nothing except a scam.

For see ISS high look to: http://www.satflare.com/isshd/ look at altitude.
For see the properties of the atmospher look to: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Atmosphere_of_Earth

Exosphere: 700 to 10,000 km (440 to 6,200 miles)
Thermosphere: 80 to 700 km (50 to 440 miles)[8]
Mesosphere: 50 to 80 km (31 to 50 miles)
Stratosphere: 12 to 50 km (7 to 31 miles)
Troposphere: 0 to 12 km (0 to 7 miles)[9]

If ISS really there, the astrounats should been cooking because Thermosphere is about The temperature of this layer can rise as high as 1500 °C. Think a little about it.

6-

Sun rises and sets.

at noon the sun is always bigger then it rises. This shows the sun is so close to us.



Sun rising proves the earth is a flat.


7-
Visibility of stars and angle from horizon.

Everytime you see about same stars on the same places. If the world and universe moving anywhere on the space it must be so different places evernight you see. But you see about same shape of the stars. This proves the stars turning around the world. I did not express it beautiful. :)



8-

Other planets and their moons are spheres.


There is no planet and moons except the earth. They are stars so it is normal they have the shape of the rock.


9-
Tectonic plates.

This proves nothing. Sometimes they are flat, sometimes concave and sometime convex. This proves nothing.


10-
Pictures and videos.
Most of them are fake and it was proved that.


Accurate maps and GPS navigation based on a globe.

Celestial navigation works and uses math that assumes the Earth is a sphere.

Satellite TV.

Phases of the moon.

Moon appearing different depending on the observers location in relation to the equator.

2,000 plus years of observations and experiments validating the fact the Earth is a sphereroid.

Engineers designing things that work successfully while assuming the Earth is round.

Ability to make reliable and accurate predictions based on a round Earth model. Such as tides, eclipses, other planets' locations, continental drift, tidal loading, Earth tides, etc.

Out of ten.
« Last Edit: April 14, 2016, 04:49:35 AM by İntikam »
Ignore list: boydster, Bullwinkle, Crouton, DuckDodgers, Hamzah, JackBlack, jdaniel0319, Junker, Jura-Glenlivet II, magellanclavichord, Mundin, NotSoSkeptical, rabinoz

*

wise

  • Professor
  • Flat Earth Scientist
  • 20570
  • To Us Everywhere Flat Earth
Re: Give me your top ten proofs for a globe earth
« Reply #18 on: April 14, 2016, 04:11:21 AM »
To flesh out what Inquisitive is saying, (because honestly, your posts are often far too short and hasty to be a clear argument), a sixth argument would be that the path of the Sun on the typical FE map would mean the very shape of the Sun would be altering wildly, and that the length of a day in the southern hemisphere should always be shorter as there's more space for it to cover. Plus, when the Sun's further out (the variation in the radius of its orbit being the explanation for seasons), it would by necessity be travelling much faster. We don't observe this.

Argument 7: at both poles, 24 hour Sun and near-24 hour Sun may be observed. That is, the Sun is visible for most of the day, despite the fact if sunlight reached one point on the ice wall for that long, it would need to illuminate nearly all of the world.

Argument 8: the Coriolis force, a force in opposite directions in each hemisphere, is a major part of a lot of things. Most interestingly, from my perspective, is weather prediction: the maths checks out, and taking into account the rotation of the Earth (in a fashion that couldn't easily occur on a FE as there would be no discernible way for the force to reverse directions depending on where you stand) you can quite literally predict the future. The fact we can predict the weather with some degree of success (especially given the equations relied on are so advanced we don't even have proof that there is a solution) based on the predictions of RET would seem to refute FET: how could a lie have successfully  repeatable, measurable, and testable consequences?

I'll let someone else manage 9 and 10. There are a whole wealth of others. Flight times, distances that can't exist on a flat surface, Eratosphenes' experiment giving constant curvature or a wildly varying distance to the Sun, ship on the horizon without and waves high enough to block the ship...

I'm sorry Jane, I like you but can't answer a cheap troll. I can't accept it myself. I'm really sorry. I like you, i'm sure you are a good girl like the Devil's daughter. As you see that i'm hanging out with rich trolls.  ;D

Notice: If you change your signature maybe my looking on you can change.
Ignore list: boydster, Bullwinkle, Crouton, DuckDodgers, Hamzah, JackBlack, jdaniel0319, Junker, Jura-Glenlivet II, magellanclavichord, Mundin, NotSoSkeptical, rabinoz

*

wise

  • Professor
  • Flat Earth Scientist
  • 20570
  • To Us Everywhere Flat Earth
Re: Give me your top ten proofs for a globe earth
« Reply #19 on: April 14, 2016, 04:14:26 AM »
I made the exact same thread awhile ago but its dead. Oh well. It's good to start a fresh.

Your thread about the flat earth.Please look to the topic again.  :o
Ignore list: boydster, Bullwinkle, Crouton, DuckDodgers, Hamzah, JackBlack, jdaniel0319, Junker, Jura-Glenlivet II, magellanclavichord, Mundin, NotSoSkeptical, rabinoz

*

wise

  • Professor
  • Flat Earth Scientist
  • 20570
  • To Us Everywhere Flat Earth
Re: Give me your top ten proofs for a globe earth
« Reply #20 on: April 14, 2016, 04:29:15 AM »
The heavens on a spherical Earth are correct - on a disk/plane are wrong.

No it is not correct.

You don't see or show any heavens on the earth to us physically. Just theoretical prediction.  theoretical predictions don't be the conclusive evidences.


The S. Celestial Pole (SCP) is not visible on any flat surface, disk or plane. It is underneath the N.Pole UNDER the Earth. It can not be seen above the Earth. On a sphere, it is directly above the S.Pole, a single point on Earth.

The SCP can not be RISING higher and higher as you go farther and farther south of the equator. When you face the SCP, you are facing due south EVERYWHERE on Earth. The stars BELOW the SCP are on the other side of the Earth from you. On a sphere, that is OK. On a disk, you are looking at stars 10,000+ mi BEHIND you.

The farthest north the Sun goes is the Tropic of Cancer (23.5° N). The farthest south the Sun goes is the Tropic of Capricorn (23.5° S). On a sphere, both are the same length. The Sun moves the same speed across the sky. On a disk, the Tropic of Capricorn is almost 2x the length of the Tropic of Cancer. To go around in 24 hrs, the Sun would have to move at 2x the speed in the sky. This does not happen.

The South Celestial Pole (SCP) does not proven. this is just a modelling that we don't know really is there or not? I don't believe there is. You need  to convince for this theory.



Sunrise/sunset on a sphere is simply the Sun going up/down as the Earth spins. On a disk, it has never been explained how on the equinox, although EVERYONE sees the Sun rising/setting due east/west, why this happens when the Sun is 1/4 of the Earth away NE/NW (it gets worse the farther south you go). Does light really bend THAT much over a few thousand miles?

As all we know that the sun is really close to us. then it is approaching and receding.

" class="bbc_link" target="_blank">

I don't know is this video the true one that i want to show because the dictator Erdoghan forbid us the youtube. God damn him like you. :)


The stars have coordinates, specifically declination (sky). This matches latitude (Earth) EXACTLY. For example, a star at 40° N declination, in 24 hrs, describes the 40° N latitude on Earth. This means (1) at the N.Pole, there is a SINGLE point 90°, (2) at the S.Pole, there is a SINGLE point 90°, (3) declination/latitude circles INCREASE in size going from the N.Pole to the equator, (4) they DECREASE going from the equator to the S.Pole. This demonstrates the Earth is symmetrical and a sphere. It can not happen on a disk/plane.

Equatorially mounted telescopes are aligned to point at the N.Celestial Pole/S.Celestial Pole AND be parallel to the axis of the Earth/sky rotation so 1 motor can track the sky. These correspond to the observer's latitude EXACTLY. On the equator, they are perfectly horizontal (0°). At Denver, CO ("mile high" city 5280 ft above sea-level), they are 40° (how can a telescope point horizontally on the beach near Quito, Ecuador and in Denver point 40° UP and be 1 mi above sea-level, and BOTH point at the NCP?) At the Poles, they are 90°. This has been done for DECADES. The only shape *I* know of that matches these attributes is a sphere. This is a direct proof the Earth is spherical.

The ISS, with pictures of it against the Sun and Moon, can be measured/demonstrated to be 250 mi above the Earth. It is in orbit.

Geosynchronous/geostationary satellites that dish TV companies use can be measured/demonstrated to be ~42,000 km in altitude.

you're told the same thing from different perspectives or i don't understand what you mean.  ;D
Ignore list: boydster, Bullwinkle, Crouton, DuckDodgers, Hamzah, JackBlack, jdaniel0319, Junker, Jura-Glenlivet II, magellanclavichord, Mundin, NotSoSkeptical, rabinoz

*

wise

  • Professor
  • Flat Earth Scientist
  • 20570
  • To Us Everywhere Flat Earth
Re: Give me your top ten proofs for a globe earth
« Reply #21 on: April 14, 2016, 04:30:48 AM »
From what I've seen so far, Globe Earth has alot of support, and also some problems. Also, Flat Earth has both alot of evidence support, and some problems.
Alot of supposed Globe evidence uses spurious correlations, where they assert a questionable cause-effect relationship which doesn't necessarily support globe earth. but it appears to on first glance.
My question, if globe earth is such a fundamental reality, why can't it be proven more definitively? Especially with all of the tech we are supposed to have... Such a big assertion requires big evidence, and so far the amount of actual support for globe earth falls short of the 'gravity' of the claim.
Yes, burden of proof falls onto globe helio theory. And it's going to take more definitive proof than anything I've seen so far.
Even though flat earth can't be definitely proven yet either, there is atleast too much solid evidence that contradicts globe helio theory, to not question it. Enough to make any realist take a step back and reanalyze.
I am yet undecided but let me say I find it indefensible to fully accept globe theory and simultaneously talk down to people who are really looking for truth instead of unfounded presumptions.

That said, if anybody has any proof that the earth is a globe, I will give it full unbiased consideration.
Aligning Equatorially Mounted Telescopes is a DIRECT proof the Earth is spherical. To track the sky with 1 motor, the base of the telescope MUST point at the Celestial Pole (north in the northern hemisphere, south in the southern). It also MUST be parallel with the Earth/sky axis (N.Pole to S.Pole, N.Celestial Pole to S.Celestial Pole). It corresponds EXACTLY to an observer's latitude. There is only ONE shape that does this (and it ain't a flat earth). It is a sphere. See this picture:


Furthermore, this has been done for DECADES even by the biggest telescopes (like the Palomar 200" one). The alignment is typically to minutes (rough alignment) or seconds (fine alignment) of arc - VERY precise. The alignment of 1000's of equatorially mounted telescopes around the world is the Eratosthenes Experiment done everywhere everyday to minutes or seconds of arc. It DEFINITELY, WITHOUT QUESTION, demonstrates the Earth is spherical. A FE CAN NOT do it.

A FE CAN NOT work because to be parallel to the axis of the Earth/sky, the mount would need to be VERTICAL EVERYWHERE on Earth. It isn't. On the equator it is HORIZONTAL. The Poles are the ONLY place on Earth it is VERTICAL. If the telescope is HORIZONTAL at the equator (Quito, Ecuador - beach west of it on the Pacific), this implies the Celestial Pole is like 3' off the ground (the height of the mount)!!! But in Denver, CO (the "mile high" city 5280 ft above sea-level), the telescope must point 40° UP at the Celestial Pole. So... how does the telescope, a mile above sea-level point 40° UP at ~Polaris in Denver when it is 3' above sea-level as view from a beach west of Quito, Ecuador (on a Flat Earth)? BTW, Polaris would also be 3' above the ground as viewed from the beach as well.

The people who have done astronomy can't even fathom how an equatorially mounted telescope could work on a FE... but they DO work on Earth.

Sorry, but as I keep saying, amateur astronomy (visual/photographic) either proves/supports or disproves/falsifies/destroys/annihilates Earth models. It can not be faked.
++

do we have to believe who paints the picture?
Ignore list: boydster, Bullwinkle, Crouton, DuckDodgers, Hamzah, JackBlack, jdaniel0319, Junker, Jura-Glenlivet II, magellanclavichord, Mundin, NotSoSkeptical, rabinoz

*

wise

  • Professor
  • Flat Earth Scientist
  • 20570
  • To Us Everywhere Flat Earth
Re: Give me your top ten proofs for a globe earth
« Reply #22 on: April 14, 2016, 04:45:01 AM »
I'll copy and paste my response to the thread from a few months ago since I never got a proper response.

1. Objects going past the horizon disappear from the bottom up. They don't shrink because they are getting farther away, they are going under the horizon line.
2. The moon and sun set under the horizon. If the Earth were a flat disc, this would mean that they are going underneath the disc.
3. You can change when sunrise and sunset occur simply by changing your altitude. Go to Dubai, watch the sunset, take an elevator to the top of Burj Khalifa, and watch the sunset again.
4. The sun is always up somewhere, meaning that the sun can't be under the disc. This presents a conflict with point 2.
5. The stars visible from the northern hemisphere are different from the stars visible from the southern hemisphere.
6. In the northern hemisphere, the stars appear to revolve around Polaris. In the southern hemisphere, stars appear to revolve around Sigma Octantis. On a flat Earth the stars would all appear to revolve around the same point.
7. Commercial tours to the South Pole are available starting from Punta Arenas, Chile, and Cape Town, South Africa. Start from Chile, have your friend start from South Africa, and you will both arrive at the same place. Bring a compass with you to ensure that your boat goes due south and you aren't being brought to a fake South Pole.
8. The International Space Station is visible from the ground. http://spotthestation.nasa.gov/sightings/ will tell you exactly when and where to look. You can even communicate with the station with a radio if you have the technological know-how.
9. Different points on the Earth have measurably different gravitational acceleration. This is to be expected since the Earth is not a perfect sphere and is spinning.
10. There are unaltered, non-composite photographs of the Earth from space which show its curvature.

You don't have to refute them all, just pick one or two and we can discuss them. Or refute all ten, whatever floats your boat.

Actually your avatar like you as someone's clone but i'll answer your shortly shortly.

1. The measurements proving that disappearing of the ships don't proves the earth is a sphere. don't have sufficient inclination. But maybe the oceans can't be just a bit convex?

2. The mon and the sun never set under the earth. It is just light refraction. Just the sun and the moon far away but you see them as set.

3. Did you try it? You are talking as you try.

4.  This presents a conflict with point 2.

5. Not completely. It has same difference between China and United States.

I don't need to look at the rest. all of these ordinary and simple, like you little thing :)

Ignore list: boydster, Bullwinkle, Crouton, DuckDodgers, Hamzah, JackBlack, jdaniel0319, Junker, Jura-Glenlivet II, magellanclavichord, Mundin, NotSoSkeptical, rabinoz

*

Slemon

  • Flat Earth Researcher
  • 11690
Re: Give me your top ten proofs for a globe earth
« Reply #23 on: April 14, 2016, 04:56:57 AM »
I'm sorry Jane, I like you but can't answer a cheap troll. I can't accept it myself. I'm really sorry. I like you, i'm sure you are a good girl like the Devil's daughter. As you see that i'm hanging out with rich trolls.  ;D

Notice: If you change your signature maybe my looking on you can change.
My sig's about as meaningful as yours.
Well, do say when you feel able to respond.

*

wise

  • Professor
  • Flat Earth Scientist
  • 20570
  • To Us Everywhere Flat Earth
Re: Give me your top ten proofs for a globe earth
« Reply #24 on: April 14, 2016, 05:09:24 AM »
 I didn't see even one "definitive evidence in these. what about you?
Ignore list: boydster, Bullwinkle, Crouton, DuckDodgers, Hamzah, JackBlack, jdaniel0319, Junker, Jura-Glenlivet II, magellanclavichord, Mundin, NotSoSkeptical, rabinoz

*

wise

  • Professor
  • Flat Earth Scientist
  • 20570
  • To Us Everywhere Flat Earth
Re: Give me your top ten proofs for a globe earth
« Reply #25 on: April 14, 2016, 05:13:40 AM »
I'm sorry Jane, I like you but can't answer a cheap troll. I can't accept it myself. I'm really sorry. I like you, i'm sure you are a good girl like the Devil's daughter. As you see that i'm hanging out with rich trolls.  ;D

Notice: If you change your signature maybe my looking on you can change.
My sig's about as meaningful as yours.
Well, do say when you feel able to respond.

Someone claims to hack JRoweSkeptic's password.

Why don't you say it to JRoweSkeptic instead of me? I don't know Lemmiwinks and JRoweSkeptic who they are.
Ignore list: boydster, Bullwinkle, Crouton, DuckDodgers, Hamzah, JackBlack, jdaniel0319, Junker, Jura-Glenlivet II, magellanclavichord, Mundin, NotSoSkeptical, rabinoz

*

wise

  • Professor
  • Flat Earth Scientist
  • 20570
  • To Us Everywhere Flat Earth
Re: Give me your top ten proofs for a globe earth
« Reply #26 on: April 14, 2016, 05:16:38 AM »

I'll let someone else manage 9 and 10. There are a whole wealth of others. Flight times, distances that can't exist on a flat surface, Eratosphenes' experiment giving constant curvature or a wildly varying distance to the Sun, ship on the horizon without and waves high enough to block the ship...

Flight times and distances that can't exist on a the sphere earth. What am i writing since alot of days.

The distances of the America and Asia is wrong about 600 kilometres.

The distances of the Australia and America is wrong about 300 kilometres.

Look at the: http://www.theflatearthsociety.org/forum/index.php?topic=66445.0

and the post is http://www.theflatearthsociety.org/forum/index.php?topic=66445.msg1773121#msg1773121
« Last Edit: April 14, 2016, 05:19:36 AM by İntikam »
Ignore list: boydster, Bullwinkle, Crouton, DuckDodgers, Hamzah, JackBlack, jdaniel0319, Junker, Jura-Glenlivet II, magellanclavichord, Mundin, NotSoSkeptical, rabinoz

?

frenat

  • 3497
Re: Give me your top ten proofs for a globe earth
« Reply #27 on: April 14, 2016, 05:30:40 AM »

3-

Eclipses.

Eclipses shows the earth and the moon always has same size and turning around the earth. If the moon orbit had been exchanged between 384.000 kms and 406.000 kms, it must be so different sizes when the eclipses done. But everytime at the eclipse the moon and the sun is the same size!

This proves the earth is flat.

That is a lie.  They are NOT always the same size.  The majority of eclipses are annular eclipses where the moon is smaller than the sun.


If ISS really there, the astrounats should been cooking because Thermosphere is about The temperature of this layer can rise as high as 1500 °C. Think a little about it.
Please learn the difference between temperature and heat.

6-

Sun rises and sets.

at noon the sun is always bigger then it rises. This shows the sun is so close to us.
also a lie.  the Sun is the same size throughout the day.


7-
Visibility of stars and angle from horizon.

Everytime you see about same stars on the same places. If the world and universe moving anywhere on the space it must be so different places evernight you see. But you see about same shape of the stars. This proves the stars turning around the world. I did not express it beautiful. :)
Thank you for proving you can't comprehend the distances and scales involved.  the stars are distant so they won't change from night to night.  they DO change over extremely long periods of time.



*

wise

  • Professor
  • Flat Earth Scientist
  • 20570
  • To Us Everywhere Flat Earth
Re: Give me your top ten proofs for a globe earth
« Reply #28 on: April 14, 2016, 05:43:35 AM »

3-

Eclipses.

Eclipses shows the earth and the moon always has same size and turning around the earth. If the moon orbit had been exchanged between 384.000 kms and 406.000 kms, it must be so different sizes when the eclipses done. But everytime at the eclipse the moon and the sun is the same size!

This proves the earth is flat.

That is a lie.  They are NOT always the same size.  The majority of eclipses are annular eclipses where the moon is smaller than the sun.


If ISS really there, the astrounats should been cooking because Thermosphere is about The temperature of this layer can rise as high as 1500 °C. Think a little about it.
Please learn the difference between temperature and heat.

6-

Sun rises and sets.

at noon the sun is always bigger then it rises. This shows the sun is so close to us.
also a lie.  the Sun is the same size throughout the day.


7-
Visibility of stars and angle from horizon.

Everytime you see about same stars on the same places. If the world and universe moving anywhere on the space it must be so different places evernight you see. But you see about same shape of the stars. This proves the stars turning around the world. I did not express it beautiful. :)
Thank you for proving you can't comprehend the distances and scales involved.  the stars are distant so they won't change from night to night.  they DO change over extremely long periods of time.

these are not your proofs. i don't care what do you talk about it. write a proof or get out of the way. Look at the topic. the rules were set from the beginning. 

either follow the rules or write yourself and read own. I can't deal with the kids. I'm not a babysitter.
« Last Edit: April 14, 2016, 05:48:54 AM by İntikam »
Ignore list: boydster, Bullwinkle, Crouton, DuckDodgers, Hamzah, JackBlack, jdaniel0319, Junker, Jura-Glenlivet II, magellanclavichord, Mundin, NotSoSkeptical, rabinoz

?

frenat

  • 3497
Re: Give me your top ten proofs for a globe earth
« Reply #29 on: April 14, 2016, 05:48:21 AM »

3-

Eclipses.

Eclipses shows the earth and the moon always has same size and turning around the earth. If the moon orbit had been exchanged between 384.000 kms and 406.000 kms, it must be so different sizes when the eclipses done. But everytime at the eclipse the moon and the sun is the same size!

This proves the earth is flat.

That is a lie.  They are NOT always the same size.  The majority of eclipses are annular eclipses where the moon is smaller than the sun.


If ISS really there, the astrounats should been cooking because Thermosphere is about The temperature of this layer can rise as high as 1500 °C. Think a little about it.
Please learn the difference between temperature and heat.

6-

Sun rises and sets.

at noon the sun is always bigger then it rises. This shows the sun is so close to us.
also a lie.  the Sun is the same size throughout the day.


7-
Visibility of stars and angle from horizon.

Everytime you see about same stars on the same places. If the world and universe moving anywhere on the space it must be so different places evernight you see. But you see about same shape of the stars. This proves the stars turning around the world. I did not express it beautiful. :)
Thank you for proving you can't comprehend the distances and scales involved.  the stars are distant so they won't change from night to night.  they DO change over extremely long periods of time.

these are not your proofs. i don't care what do you talk about it. write a proof or get out of the way. Look at the topic. the rules were set from the beginning. 

either follow the rules or write yourself and read own.

In other words you can't refute what was written.