Why and How

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Xal

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Why and How
« on: April 12, 2016, 12:24:28 AM »
Here's the deal: I'm just your average Joe and would like to know more about Flat Earth Theory. Before I list my questions, I'd like to say that I respect all opinions, and I'd like to keep any discussion civil (no name-calling). Also, I'd like to try to avoid any logical fallacies in arguments. Here are some of the questions I have about FET:

  • Many FET enthusiasts state that photographic evidence of a round Earth has been doctored, and there exists a global conspiracy preventing people from believing that the Earth is flat. My question here: What are the advantages for the parties involved, and what are their motivations to do such a thing. (This is more speculation, but I'd like to hear it nonetheless)
  • Have any scientific papers been written on FET?
  • What is the most convincing scientific experiment I can carry out to support a Flat Earth hypothesis? Make sure it follows the scientific method, i.e. it makes a hypothesis, carries out an experiment, collects data, and draws conclusions from results.
  • What is the most convincing scientific argument that disproves a round Earth hypothesis?

If possible, include relevant diagrams, or tables of empirical data. Also, if your theory does not use conventional physical theories (i.e. modern gravitational theory), what other experiments can we perform to support them?

Thank you for your time everyone.

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Sir Richard

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Re: Why and How
« Reply #1 on: April 12, 2016, 09:45:38 AM »
Here's the deal: I'm just your average Joe and would like to know more about Flat Earth Theory. Before I list my questions, I'd like to say that I respect all opinions, and I'd like to keep any discussion civil (no name-calling). Also, I'd like to try to avoid any logical fallacies in arguments. Here are some of the questions I have about FET:

  • Many FET enthusiasts state that photographic evidence of a round Earth has been doctored, and there exists a global conspiracy preventing people from believing that the Earth is flat. My question here: What are the advantages for the parties involved, and what are their motivations to do such a thing. (This is more speculation, but I'd like to hear it nonetheless)
  • Have any scientific papers been written on FET?
  • What is the most convincing scientific experiment I can carry out to support a Flat Earth hypothesis? Make sure it follows the scientific method, i.e. it makes a hypothesis, carries out an experiment, collects data, and draws conclusions from results.
  • What is the most convincing scientific argument that disproves a round Earth hypothesis?

If possible, include relevant diagrams, or tables of empirical data. Also, if your theory does not use conventional physical theories (i.e. modern gravitational theory), what other experiments can we perform to support them?

Thank you for your time everyone.
This is akin to walking in a Western Civilization Course in college and asking the Professor to explain the Western Civilization, the rise and fall of such in five minutes. You should begin by reading Rowboatham's work, or something similar (available in used facsimiles), reading the WIKI on this site and on others. Do you research on the theory or their variants and then come armed with more succinct questions.  Anyone of your question would take hours and hours to respond to, and, if I may use the term, would require the flat earth Theorists (like yours truly) to "reinvent the wheel" when there are a number of very serviceable wheels available herein.

So study and come to this forum with a more specific question or issue, fact, or posit to debate.

Good luck in your studies.
"Ideas are more powerful than guns. We would not let our enemies have guns, why should we let them have ideas?"  J Stalin

"It is not the people that vote that count it is the people that count the votes" J Stalin

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Slemon

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Re: Why and How
« Reply #2 on: April 13, 2016, 02:41:13 AM »
Many FET enthusiasts state that photographic evidence of a round Earth has been doctored, and there exists a global conspiracy preventing people from believing that the Earth is flat. My question here: What are the advantages for the parties involved, and what are their motivations to do such a thing. (This is more speculation, but I'd like to hear it nonetheless)
The more out-there FEers usually rely on religious reasons: people trying to hide God's word, or imply it's false etc, claiming some holy text says the Earth is flat, and so some nebulous cabal of satanists and such try to convince everyone it's round.
The less bizarre FEers claim that there is no intentional FE/RE conspiracy, there's only a space travel conspiracy. Space agencies couldn't get to space, but for political and financial gain they pretended otherwise, and as they expected to see a RE, that's what their falsified pictures showed.

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Have any scientific papers been written on FET?
I remember seeing one done in theory, on whether an infinite planar Earth would be able to exert gravity, but generally there isn't much on actual FET. To be fair though, that's understandable: what academic publication would you expect to advocate FET?

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What is the most convincing scientific experiment I can carry out to support a Flat Earth hypothesis? Make sure it follows the scientific method, i.e. it makes a hypothesis, carries out an experiment, collects data, and draws conclusions from results.
The Bedford Level Experiment is the most often quoted. The idea is that someone looked in a straight line along a canal, and saw no curvature when it would be expected: however there's little consistency in the results. Some people doing the experiment saw curvature, some did not. Even so, a lot of FEers appeal to this.

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What is the most convincing scientific argument that disproves a round Earth hypothesis?
Most often they argue that there is no curvature, or that gravity cannot exist.
We all know deep in our hearts that Jane is the last face we'll see before we're choked to death!

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Round and Proud

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Re: Why and How
« Reply #3 on: April 13, 2016, 08:55:46 AM »
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Many FET enthusiasts state that photographic evidence of a round Earth has been doctored, and there exists a global conspiracy preventing people from believing that the Earth is flat. My question here: What are the advantages for the parties involved, and what are their motivations to do such a thing. (This is more speculation, but I'd like to hear it nonetheless)

There are no advantages. More to the point such a theory flies in face of human nature  and national interests. Nations fight wars for any and all reasons. A few decades a go, Russia shot down a civilian airliner because it was approaching an island they and Japan lay claim to, yet we are to believe the Space Agencies of both countries remain in lock step with ALL other National AND Private Space Programs in hiding a FE? Seriously, the US and Russia had enough nuclear weapons pointed at each other set back civilization a thousand years, but agreed on this? NOT A CHANCE.
Stupidity cannot be cured with money, or through education, or by legislation. Stupidity is not a sin, the victim can't help being stupid. But stupidity is the only universal capital crime...

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palmerito0

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Re: Why and How
« Reply #4 on: April 13, 2016, 11:16:20 AM »
But the cold war was all a psy-op!
Heiwa on the impossibility of space travel:

There are no toilets up there and sex is also a problem, just to mention a few difficulties.

WHEEEEEEEEEEE

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Round and Proud

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Re: Why and How
« Reply #5 on: April 13, 2016, 02:03:44 PM »
But the cold war was all a psy-op!

Yep, it was all to cover up finding the real Middle Earth and to keep the One Ring safe
Stupidity cannot be cured with money, or through education, or by legislation. Stupidity is not a sin, the victim can't help being stupid. But stupidity is the only universal capital crime...

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Slemon

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Re: Why and How
« Reply #6 on: April 13, 2016, 03:30:38 PM »
But the cold war was all a psy-op!

Yep, it was all to cover up finding the real Middle Earth and to keep the One Ring safe
Don't say things like that, you'll probably end up with a user claiming to be Frodo within the week. This site gets spectacular trolls (we used to have a time traveller).
We all know deep in our hearts that Jane is the last face we'll see before we're choked to death!

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Round and Proud

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Re: Why and How
« Reply #7 on: April 13, 2016, 03:34:52 PM »
But the cold war was all a psy-op!

Yep, it was all to cover up finding the real Middle Earth and to keep the One Ring safe
Don't say things like that, you'll probably end up with a user claiming to be Frodo within the week. This site gets spectacular trolls (we used to have a time traveller).

Seriously? A time traveler? My first book is a tail about a time traveler. I had a guy buy my book and seriously ask if it was a "How to." I did a Blog post on it on my website.
Stupidity cannot be cured with money, or through education, or by legislation. Stupidity is not a sin, the victim can't help being stupid. But stupidity is the only universal capital crime...

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Slemon

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Re: Why and How
« Reply #8 on: April 13, 2016, 03:43:28 PM »
Seriously? A time traveler? My first book is a tail about a time traveler. I had a guy buy my book and seriously ask if it was a "How to." I did a Blog post on it on my website.
Time travel's always a good source for fiction. I think they claimed to be from two separate futures.

http://www.theflatearthsociety.org/forum/index.php?topic=63914

http://www.theflatearthsociety.org/forum/index.php?topic=65370

It was one of the more entertaining users.
We all know deep in our hearts that Jane is the last face we'll see before we're choked to death!

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Round and Proud

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Re: Why and How
« Reply #9 on: April 14, 2016, 04:31:19 AM »
Seriously? A time traveler? My first book is a tail about a time traveler. I had a guy buy my book and seriously ask if it was a "How to." I did a Blog post on it on my website.
Time travel's always a good source for fiction. I think they claimed to be from two separate futures.

http://www.theflatearthsociety.org/forum/index.php?topic=63914

http://www.theflatearthsociety.org/forum/index.php?topic=65370

It was one of the more entertaining users.

In Time's Crossroads, I use John Titor as a message board prank, but not by name as my research indicated that the name is copy righted. I may be wrong about that point. I first heard of him on Coast to Coast AM Radio while driving to work. According to my research, it is claimed John Titor went back to his time more than a decade ago, never to be heard from again.  But it could be him getting board and resurrecting his alter ego again here.
« Last Edit: April 14, 2016, 07:20:10 AM by Round and Proud »
Stupidity cannot be cured with money, or through education, or by legislation. Stupidity is not a sin, the victim can't help being stupid. But stupidity is the only universal capital crime...

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Slemon

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Re: Why and How
« Reply #10 on: April 14, 2016, 04:57:59 AM »
In Time's Crossroads, I use John Titor as a message board prank, but not by name as my research indicated that the name is copy righted. I may be wrong about that point. I first heard of him on Coast to Coast AM Radio while driving to work. According to my research John Titor went back to his time more than a decade ago, never to be heard from again.  But it could be him getting board and resurrecting his alter ego again here.
I doubt it's the same user. The original became part of pop culture, and I vaguely remember someone pointing out his storyline seemed to be adapted more from a show that featured Titor as a character than the original.
We all know deep in our hearts that Jane is the last face we'll see before we're choked to death!

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Round and Proud

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Re: Why and How
« Reply #11 on: April 14, 2016, 07:22:48 AM »
In Time's Crossroads, I use John Titor as a message board prank, but not by name as my research indicated that the name is copy righted. I may be wrong about that point. I first heard of him on Coast to Coast AM Radio while driving to work. According to my research John Titor went back to his time more than a decade ago, never to be heard from again.  But it could be him getting board and resurrecting his alter ego again here.
I doubt it's the same user. The original became part of pop culture, and I vaguely remember someone pointing out his storyline seemed to be adapted more from a show that featured Titor as a character than the original.

So do I. His contradictions were easy to spot and it was beginning to catch up with him. The entire scam was not well thought out, a point that was made in my story. I took a lot of pot shots at people in that first book. ;)
Stupidity cannot be cured with money, or through education, or by legislation. Stupidity is not a sin, the victim can't help being stupid. But stupidity is the only universal capital crime...

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Round and Proud

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Re: Why and How
« Reply #12 on: April 14, 2016, 09:19:29 AM »
This John Titor read Time's Crossroads Too much of his postings are things I looked into in writing the story and some some of his theories about using a time machine are far to close the story line to be coincidence.
« Last Edit: April 14, 2016, 01:17:25 PM by Round and Proud »
Stupidity cannot be cured with money, or through education, or by legislation. Stupidity is not a sin, the victim can't help being stupid. But stupidity is the only universal capital crime...

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Slemon

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Re: Why and How
« Reply #13 on: April 14, 2016, 05:08:21 PM »
This John Titor read Time's Crossroads Too much of his postings are things I looked into in writing the story and some some of his theories about using a time machine are far to close the story line to be coincidence.

It was based on something called Steinsgate, someone pointed out. Time's Crossroads may have taken inspiration from that.
We all know deep in our hearts that Jane is the last face we'll see before we're choked to death!

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Round and Proud

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Re: Why and How
« Reply #14 on: April 15, 2016, 03:26:35 AM »
This John Titor read Time's Crossroads Too much of his postings are things I looked into in writing the story and some some of his theories about using a time machine are far to close the story line to be coincidence.

It was based on something called Steinsgate, someone pointed out. Time's Crossroads may have taken inspiration from that.

Never heard of Steinsgate, and I am the one wrote Time's Crossroads. Then again the research I did had to overlap with others. I also see some elements of David Gerrold's The Man Who Folded Himself in John Titor's posts.  I talked to David Gerrold about Time's Crossroads before I wrote it, as there were many elements that matched and it was conceived as a sequel. David nixed a straight out sequel for legal reasons and though some elements are similar, the story's protagonist, and other main characters and how he travels in time are different.

Our Writer's Group love the open chapter of my new book about a planet that seems flat and kind of is in a way. So now I have more research to do. Juggling 4 books at one time is over my limit.

Anyway, thanks for links, they are fun reads and full of story ideas
Stupidity cannot be cured with money, or through education, or by legislation. Stupidity is not a sin, the victim can't help being stupid. But stupidity is the only universal capital crime...

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Username

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Re: Why and How
« Reply #15 on: April 26, 2016, 10:28:45 AM »
The only reason John Titor showed himself to us was to let us know the Earth was Flat.

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My initial flight was from 2036 to 1975 (61 yrs). I then went from
1975 to 2000 (25 yrs.) Later this year, one of two favorable windows
will open and I will return to my 2036 (35 yrs.) I am here now for
personal reasons. The web page is not mine. I have been speaking online
for about three months and the page is a collection of the various
documents and pictures I have sent to other individuals.
Also, I realize there is no way for anyone to believe me with
absolute certainty so I hope I’m at least entertaining. You may be
interested to know that even in 2036, there are a large number of
people who don’t believe in time travel. Are you sure the world is
round?

Well are you?


To the original question, there have been several journals dedicated to the Flat Earth cause over the years, some more scientific, some less. I'd start by looking for Lady Blount and Universal Zetetic Society (now known as, you guessed it, - The Flat Earth Society.) They are the first I know of to seriously published journals of depth. You can also check our library which contains a few journals here and there. I'm re-cataloguing them now, so I might be able to give you more pointed directions later.
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