Small sun

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Small sun
« on: April 09, 2016, 12:18:29 AM »
Hello,
so, I was reading on how the earth is actually flat, and your explanation for time zones and well, night and day, is that the sun is actually very small, and goes around on a circle, illuminating the right parts of the earth, to allow night and day.
One huge problem with this is that it would mean that the sun is a spotlight, a cylinder spotlight, and doesn't cast light in any other direction, which not only is kinda impossible, but also kinda ridiculous.
Did the explanation change during the years or is this still in effect?

Thanks

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CaptainMagpie

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Re: Small sun
« Reply #1 on: April 09, 2016, 11:31:52 AM »
No change, that is what they are still going with.
fuck off penguin.  I'll take my ban to tell you to go fuck your self.  Ban please.   I am waiting.

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Re: Small sun
« Reply #2 on: April 09, 2016, 12:42:00 PM »
The sun is not a spotlight.  It has been merely postulated that it acts like a spotlight. 

Re: Small sun
« Reply #3 on: April 09, 2016, 01:07:29 PM »
The sun is not a spotlight.  It has been merely postulated that it acts like a spotlight. 

Ok so then how to you explain timezones, or even night and day?
Because I saw another guy that simply said that light fades, proving his point with the red hue that the sky gets during sunset/sunrise.
But that's not entirely true, because that effect of the sunset/sunrise is given due to the curvature of the earth. The sunrays, instead of hitting the earth altogether, they kinda spread themselves over a higher surface. Kinda like when you point a flashlight to the ground with an angle, hope that's clear enough. So the longer wavelenght (red, blue, yabba yabba) have a higher chance of getting seen by the observer, and that's why we have sunrise/sunset.

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CaptainMagpie

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Re: Small sun
« Reply #4 on: April 09, 2016, 03:44:21 PM »
The sun is not a spotlight.  It has been merely postulated that it acts like a spotlight.
So... it looks like a spotlight, and acts like spotlight, but isn't a spotlight... Also, if that is just postulated then what is actual accepted explanation of the sun in FET?
fuck off penguin.  I'll take my ban to tell you to go fuck your self.  Ban please.   I am waiting.

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rabinoz

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Re: Small sun
« Reply #5 on: April 10, 2016, 02:57:11 AM »
The sun is not a spotlight.  It has been merely postulated that it acts like a spotlight.
So... it looks like a spotlight, and acts like spotlight, but isn't a spotlight... Also, if that is just postulated then what is actual accepted explanation of the sun in FET?
And I thought "If it looks like a duck, walks like a duck and quacks like a duck, it is a. . . . . . . ?

I was trying to find answers to this on "the other Flat Earth Society" site.

Here is a bit of a post and reply from Tom Bishop:
The sun shines light from all directions on its surface. It's not a lamp. It's light is limited in its duration across the earth's surface because of the not-perfectly-transparent atmosphere,. . . . . .  . The sun and moon at a level of about 3000 miles above the earth are not within the atmosphere of the earth, and so the light between those two objects is unimpeded.
So, then I look up the Wiki (on the other site):
Quote from: the Wiki
How do you explain day/night cycles and seasons?
Day and night cycles are easily explained on a flat earth. The sun moves in circles around the North Pole. When it is over your head, it's day. When it's not, it's night. The sun acts like a spotlight and shines downward as it moves.
It unequivocally says The sun acts like a spotlight and shines downward as it moves.
"the Wiki, ultimate authority" or "Tom Bishop, Zetetic Council Member"

Well, that did not get far.
Maybe some kind person can sort this out.

 

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Re: Small sun
« Reply #6 on: April 10, 2016, 03:54:10 AM »
The sun is not a spotlight.  It has been merely postulated that it acts like a spotlight. 

Ok so then how to you explain timezones, or even night and day?
Because I saw another guy that simply said that light fades, proving his point with the red hue that the sky gets during sunset/sunrise.
But that's not entirely true, because that effect of the sunset/sunrise is given due to the curvature of the earth. The sunrays, instead of hitting the earth altogether, they kinda spread themselves over a higher surface. Kinda like when you point a flashlight to the ground with an angle, hope that's clear enough. So the longer wavelenght (red, blue, yabba yabba) have a higher chance of getting seen by the observer, and that's why we have sunrise/sunset.

Timezones are easily explained in FET.  The sun moves in a circle around the Earth.  When the sun is as close to being over your head as it is going to get, then it is noon.  Twelve hours later, the sun is half way across the world and it is over someone else's head.  It is midnight for you, but noon for the person on the other side of the world. 

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Re: Small sun
« Reply #7 on: April 10, 2016, 03:57:20 AM »
The sun is not a spotlight.  It has been merely postulated that it acts like a spotlight.
So... it looks like a spotlight, and acts like spotlight, but isn't a spotlight... Also, if that is just postulated then what is actual accepted explanation of the sun in FET?

Yes.  I am sure that many of you roundies look like trolls, act like trolls, but are not actually trolls.  The rest are more than likely trolls, though. 

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Re: Small sun
« Reply #8 on: April 10, 2016, 04:01:33 AM »
The sun is not a spotlight.  It has been merely postulated that it acts like a spotlight.
So... it looks like a spotlight, and acts like spotlight, but isn't a spotlight... Also, if that is just postulated then what is actual accepted explanation of the sun in FET?
And I thought "If it looks like a duck, walks like a duck and quacks like a duck, it is a. . . . . . . ?

I was trying to find answers to this on "the other Flat Earth Society" site.

Here is a bit of a post and reply from Tom Bishop:
The sun shines light from all directions on its surface. It's not a lamp. It's light is limited in its duration across the earth's surface because of the not-perfectly-transparent atmosphere,. . . . . .  . The sun and moon at a level of about 3000 miles above the earth are not within the atmosphere of the earth, and so the light between those two objects is unimpeded.
So, then I look up the Wiki (on the other site):
Quote from: the Wiki
How do you explain day/night cycles and seasons?
Day and night cycles are easily explained on a flat earth. The sun moves in circles around the North Pole. When it is over your head, it's day. When it's not, it's night. The sun acts like a spotlight and shines downward as it moves.
It unequivocally says The sun acts like a spotlight and shines downward as it moves.
"the Wiki, ultimate authority" or "Tom Bishop, Zetetic Council Member"

Well, that did not get far.
Maybe some kind person can sort this out.

 

What part of those two quotes do you think contradict each other? 

Re: Small sun
« Reply #9 on: April 10, 2016, 04:26:42 AM »
The sun is not a spotlight.  It has been merely postulated that it acts like a spotlight. 

Ok so then how to you explain timezones, or even night and day?
Because I saw another guy that simply said that light fades, proving his point with the red hue that the sky gets during sunset/sunrise.
But that's not entirely true, because that effect of the sunset/sunrise is given due to the curvature of the earth. The sunrays, instead of hitting the earth altogether, they kinda spread themselves over a higher surface. Kinda like when you point a flashlight to the ground with an angle, hope that's clear enough. So the longer wavelenght (red, blue, yabba yabba) have a higher chance of getting seen by the observer, and that's why we have sunrise/sunset.

Timezones are easily explained in FET.  The sun moves in a circle around the Earth.  When the sun is as close to being over your head as it is going to get, then it is noon.  Twelve hours later, the sun is half way across the world and it is over someone else's head.  It is midnight for you, but noon for the person on the other side of the world. 

Ok, but then how can you explain the fact that at midnight, we're not able to see the sunlight?
Because light is literally everywhere.
When it's midnight, it's dark not because the sun isn't there anymore, but because we're right in the middle of Earth's shadow. Light does not dissipate as easily as you think.
Just think of other stars. We're able to see them at night. Even better, that light is from stars that most likely aren't there anymore. And they go through the atmosphere, so light is strong enough to survive the journey.
How do you explain that?

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Re: Small sun
« Reply #10 on: April 10, 2016, 04:49:29 AM »
The sun is not a spotlight.  It has been merely postulated that it acts like a spotlight. 

Ok so then how to you explain timezones, or even night and day?
Because I saw another guy that simply said that light fades, proving his point with the red hue that the sky gets during sunset/sunrise.
But that's not entirely true, because that effect of the sunset/sunrise is given due to the curvature of the earth. The sunrays, instead of hitting the earth altogether, they kinda spread themselves over a higher surface. Kinda like when you point a flashlight to the ground with an angle, hope that's clear enough. So the longer wavelenght (red, blue, yabba yabba) have a higher chance of getting seen by the observer, and that's why we have sunrise/sunset.

Timezones are easily explained in FET.  The sun moves in a circle around the Earth.  When the sun is as close to being over your head as it is going to get, then it is noon.  Twelve hours later, the sun is half way across the world and it is over someone else's head.  It is midnight for you, but noon for the person on the other side of the world. 

Ok, but then how can you explain the fact that at midnight, we're not able to see the sunlight?
Because light is literally everywhere.
When it's midnight, it's dark not because the sun isn't there anymore, but because we're right in the middle of Earth's shadow. Light does not dissipate as easily as you think.
Just think of other stars. We're able to see them at night. Even better, that light is from stars that most likely aren't there anymore. And they go through the atmosphere, so light is strong enough to survive the journey.
How do you explain that?


When you look straight up, you are only looking through a few miles of dense atmoplane.  After that distance, the air becomes more and more negligable to the distance one can see.  You can see something thousands of miles away that is directly over your head as if it was just a few miles as seen down a road, although perspective makes it smaller.

When the angle of view decreases, the amount of air that is impeding the light increases logarithmically to the point that when you are looking straight ahead, all of the air between you and the object you are trying to observe is about as dense as it can get (at sea level).  Perspective causes things to tend towards the horizon as they move away from you, causing the viewing angle to become shallower and shallower. 

Re: Small sun
« Reply #11 on: April 10, 2016, 05:17:19 AM »
The sun is not a spotlight.  It has been merely postulated that it acts like a spotlight. 

Ok so then how to you explain timezones, or even night and day?
Because I saw another guy that simply said that light fades, proving his point with the red hue that the sky gets during sunset/sunrise.
But that's not entirely true, because that effect of the sunset/sunrise is given due to the curvature of the earth. The sunrays, instead of hitting the earth altogether, they kinda spread themselves over a higher surface. Kinda like when you point a flashlight to the ground with an angle, hope that's clear enough. So the longer wavelenght (red, blue, yabba yabba) have a higher chance of getting seen by the observer, and that's why we have sunrise/sunset.

Timezones are easily explained in FET.  The sun moves in a circle around the Earth.  When the sun is as close to being over your head as it is going to get, then it is noon.  Twelve hours later, the sun is half way across the world and it is over someone else's head.  It is midnight for you, but noon for the person on the other side of the world. 

Ok, but then how can you explain the fact that at midnight, we're not able to see the sunlight?
Because light is literally everywhere.
When it's midnight, it's dark not because the sun isn't there anymore, but because we're right in the middle of Earth's shadow. Light does not dissipate as easily as you think.
Just think of other stars. We're able to see them at night. Even better, that light is from stars that most likely aren't there anymore. And they go through the atmosphere, so light is strong enough to survive the journey.
How do you explain that?


When you look straight up, you are only looking through a few miles of dense atmoplane.  After that distance, the air becomes more and more negligable to the distance one can see.  You can see something thousands of miles away that is directly over your head as if it was just a few miles as seen down a road, although perspective makes it smaller.

When the angle of view decreases, the amount of air that is impeding the light increases logarithmically to the point that when you are looking straight ahead, all of the air between you and the object you are trying to observe is about as dense as it can get (at sea level).  Perspective causes things to tend towards the horizon as they move away from you, causing the viewing angle to become shallower and shallower. 

Ook, but then how can you explain sunrise? Not the passing of light, but literally the rise of the sun. If the earth isn't round and does not rotate, how can we see the sun rising from the horizon? Especially with atmospheric refraction (effect of seeing astonomical object higher than they really are).
Because based on your explanation, the smaller the angle of view, the denser the air. So logically speaking, we shouldn't be able to see the sun rise, because the air would be too dense to see through.

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Re: Small sun
« Reply #12 on: April 10, 2016, 05:28:04 AM »
The sun is not a spotlight.  It has been merely postulated that it acts like a spotlight. 

Ok so then how to you explain timezones, or even night and day?
Because I saw another guy that simply said that light fades, proving his point with the red hue that the sky gets during sunset/sunrise.
But that's not entirely true, because that effect of the sunset/sunrise is given due to the curvature of the earth. The sunrays, instead of hitting the earth altogether, they kinda spread themselves over a higher surface. Kinda like when you point a flashlight to the ground with an angle, hope that's clear enough. So the longer wavelenght (red, blue, yabba yabba) have a higher chance of getting seen by the observer, and that's why we have sunrise/sunset.

Timezones are easily explained in FET.  The sun moves in a circle around the Earth.  When the sun is as close to being over your head as it is going to get, then it is noon.  Twelve hours later, the sun is half way across the world and it is over someone else's head.  It is midnight for you, but noon for the person on the other side of the world. 

Ok, but then how can you explain the fact that at midnight, we're not able to see the sunlight?
Because light is literally everywhere.
When it's midnight, it's dark not because the sun isn't there anymore, but because we're right in the middle of Earth's shadow. Light does not dissipate as easily as you think.
Just think of other stars. We're able to see them at night. Even better, that light is from stars that most likely aren't there anymore. And they go through the atmosphere, so light is strong enough to survive the journey.
How do you explain that?


When you look straight up, you are only looking through a few miles of dense atmoplane.  After that distance, the air becomes more and more negligable to the distance one can see.  You can see something thousands of miles away that is directly over your head as if it was just a few miles as seen down a road, although perspective makes it smaller.

When the angle of view decreases, the amount of air that is impeding the light increases logarithmically to the point that when you are looking straight ahead, all of the air between you and the object you are trying to observe is about as dense as it can get (at sea level).  Perspective causes things to tend towards the horizon as they move away from you, causing the viewing angle to become shallower and shallower. 

Ook, but then how can you explain sunrise? Not the passing of light, but literally the rise of the sun. If the earth isn't round and does not rotate, how can we see the sun rising from the horizon? Especially with atmospheric refraction (effect of seeing astonomical object higher than they really are).
Because based on your explanation, the smaller the angle of view, the denser the air. So logically speaking, we shouldn't be able to see the sun rise, because the air would be too dense to see through.


Light scattering limits the distance that the sun is viewable.  As the sun crosses the boundary between the visable and nonvisable distance,  it begins to come into view.  At this distance, the perspective causes the sun to appear very close to the horizon.  As the sun is around 32 miles in diameter, the nearest edge comes into view first, and some amount of time later, the farthest edge is visable.  Combined, these effects cause the sun to appear to rise from below the horizon. 

Re: Small sun
« Reply #13 on: April 10, 2016, 05:30:31 AM »
Wouldn't that mean that the sun doesn't act as a spotlight?

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Re: Small sun
« Reply #14 on: April 10, 2016, 05:41:02 AM »
Wouldn't that mean that the sun doesn't act as a spotlight?

The sun only acts like a spot light in the fact that objects directly below it have very little air to impede the propogation of sun light, while things that are far away from being directly below the sun have a lot more dense atmoplane between them and the sun.  At a certain distance, there is simply too much dense air for the light to penetrate and an insuficient amount reaches our eyes for us to perceive the existence of the sun. 

In this sense, if you were looking down from high above the sun, the sun would appear to be casting a circle of light below it onto the Earth. 

Re: Small sun
« Reply #15 on: April 10, 2016, 05:52:25 AM »
Light scattering limits the distance that the sun is viewable.  As the sun crosses the boundary between the visable and nonvisable distance,  it begins to come into view.  At this distance, the perspective causes the sun to appear very close to the horizon.  As the sun is around 32 miles in diameter, the nearest edge comes into view first, and some amount of time later, the farthest edge is visable.  Combined, these effects cause the sun to appear to rise from below the horizon.
What do you mean by "nearest edge"? What shape is the sun? 

Even at 10,000 miles away the sun would still be 17 degrees above the horizon.  Which of course at 32 miles in diameter, would be too tiny to see at at all.  How far is the sun away at sunset and sunrise?

Why does your explanation not describe actual sunsets and sunrises:

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Re: Small sun
« Reply #16 on: April 10, 2016, 06:02:31 AM »
Crabby Jim, I was having a very productive discussion with a curious new member.  I know this drives you people nuts, but I am not going to let you derail the thread.  However, to answer your questions, it has been postulated that atmoplanic lensing causes the sun to appear to remain the same size while continuing to dim in brightness as it appears to sink lower and lower in the sky.  In addition, refraction causes the sun at very shallow angles to appear to be lower in the sky than it actually is.  I know you already know all of this, and you simply can not stand to see a curious person receive answers.  You are simply parroting things that you have heard over the many years that you have been here, but I am moving this to Q&A and I hope the hate crowd dog pack will allow the new guy to ask his questions and receive answers in a civilized manner. 

Re: Small sun
« Reply #17 on: April 10, 2016, 09:49:26 AM »
Thanks dude.
While I appreciate that you've been nice and all, that gif that you have simply drives me mad.
I mean come on.
Totally unrelated topic, you shouldn't drink water. Or breathe. You know who else drank water and breathed?
That's right.
Adolf Hitler.

Also, you mentioned refraction, which is totally correct, but that applies to a round earth.
We have that effect thanks to the roundness of the earth and of the atmosphere. A flat earth would have a squashed atmosphere around itself, but it would be way too flat to allow that effect.

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Re: Small sun
« Reply #18 on: April 10, 2016, 12:01:47 PM »
I would like to add that we see stars at the horizon and their light goes through the same atmosphere as the rising and setting sun.
The Bible doesn't support a flat earth.

Scripture, facts, science, stats, and logic is how I argue.

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CaptainMagpie

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Re: Small sun
« Reply #19 on: April 10, 2016, 01:08:09 PM »
The sun is not a spotlight.  It has been merely postulated that it acts like a spotlight.
So... it looks like a spotlight, and acts like spotlight, but isn't a spotlight... Also, if that is just postulated then what is actual accepted explanation of the sun in FET?

Yes.  I am sure that many of you roundies look like trolls, act like trolls, but are not actually trolls.  The rest are more than likely trolls, though.
That is a funny statement, coming from you...
fuck off penguin.  I'll take my ban to tell you to go fuck your self.  Ban please.   I am waiting.

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rabinoz

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Re: Small sun
« Reply #20 on: April 10, 2016, 11:32:34 PM »

I was trying to find answers to this on "the other Flat Earth Society" site.

Here is a bit of a post and reply from Tom Bishop:
The sun shines light from all directions on its surface. It's not a lamp. It's light is limited in its duration across the earth's surface because of the not-perfectly-transparent atmosphere,. . . . . .  . The sun and moon at a level of about 3000 miles above the earth are not within the atmosphere of the earth, and so the light between those two objects is unimpeded.
So, then I look up the Wiki (on the other site):
Quote from: the Wiki
How do you explain day/night cycles and seasons?
Day and night cycles are easily explained on a flat earth. The sun moves in circles around the North Pole. When it is over your head, it's day. When it's not, it's night. The sun acts like a spotlight and shines downward as it moves.
It unequivocally says The sun acts like a spotlight and shines downward as it moves.
"the Wiki, ultimate authority" or "Tom Bishop, Zetetic Council Member"

Well, that did not get far.
Maybe some kind person can sort this out.

 

What part of those two quotes do you think contradict each other?
Well in my humble opinion
Quote
The sun shines light from all directions on its surface. It's not a lamp. It's light is limited in its duration across the earth's surface because of the not-perfectly-transparent atmosphere,. . . . . .  .
Does seem to contradict
Quote
The sun acts like a spotlight and shines downward as it moves.

But, on further reflection and realising just how twisted a mind one must need to swallow all these Flat Earth postulations, I do realise that to you they probably seem quite consistent.

Just like how "perspective" can make an object that is almost 20° above the horizon seem to actually sink down below it.
Just how the atmoplane can magnify the sun around 4 times, when the dense low altitude air is known to bend light only 0.5° or so.
Yes, anyone who can even suggest some of these outlandish ideas would have no problem with a few contradictory statements.
Mind you no-one has ever answered how we ever can see a full moon if it illuminated from the sun!
I suppose the simple answer is that no-one knows!

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Re: Small sun
« Reply #21 on: April 11, 2016, 02:58:04 AM »
Thanks dude.
While I appreciate that you've been nice and all, that gif that you have simply drives me mad.
I mean come on.
Totally unrelated topic, you shouldn't drink water. Or breathe. You know who else drank water and breathed?
That's right.
Adolf Hitler.

Also, you mentioned refraction, which is totally correct, but that applies to a round earth.
We have that effect thanks to the roundness of the earth and of the atmosphere. A flat earth would have a squashed atmosphere around itself, but it would be way too flat to allow that effect.

Refraction occurs when the density of the medium that light is traveling through changes.  The light does not care about the shape of the Earth.

Re: Small sun
« Reply #22 on: April 11, 2016, 03:56:16 AM »
Thanks dude.
While I appreciate that you've been nice and all, that gif that you have simply drives me mad.
I mean come on.
Totally unrelated topic, you shouldn't drink water. Or breathe. You know who else drank water and breathed?
That's right.
Adolf Hitler.

Also, you mentioned refraction, which is totally correct, but that applies to a round earth.
We have that effect thanks to the roundness of the earth and of the atmosphere. A flat earth would have a squashed atmosphere around itself, but it would be way too flat to allow that effect.

Refraction occurs when the density of the medium that light is traveling through changes.  The light does not care about the shape of the Earth.

Sorry my bad

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Re: Small sun
« Reply #23 on: April 11, 2016, 04:48:22 AM »
Also, my Sig is what is known as satire.  The fact that I have to explain this to you means that either it is over your head, or, the world has lost its funny bone.  Shakespeare is rolling in his grave as we speak. 

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Round and Proud

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Re: Small sun
« Reply #24 on: April 11, 2016, 07:54:54 AM »
Keep in mind 50% of the population can detect a candle at night on a hill 10 miles away. Said candle produces about 5 watts of light or 90 lumens.

The sun is a -27 Magnitude Star and produces 380 Septillion watts, )380 followed by 30 ZEROS) or 6.89x1033 Lumens. It is mathematically impossible for that much light to fade away and appear to sink below a horizon that from any point on a FE is at a MINIMUM of 26.57 degrees above the the plain. Simple geometry and applying the Inverse Square Law.

The Sun produces 7.6X1033 more watts than the Sun.  This means the sun can be seen 8.36X1035 miles further than the candle.

Quote
In addition, refraction causes the sun at very shallow angles to appear to be lower in the sky than it actually is.

No it does not. The refraction math says that light traveling FROM a fast medium, in this case a vacuum, TO a slow medium, in this case air, bends the  light UP.
FE has failed once again to explain how the sun sets or why it is not seen 24/7 on a FE.
« Last Edit: April 12, 2016, 06:33:57 AM by Round and Proud »
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Re: Small sun
« Reply #25 on: April 11, 2016, 09:00:44 AM »
Bending light upwards means that things will appear lower than they actually are.  ::)

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Round and Proud

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Re: Small sun
« Reply #26 on: April 11, 2016, 10:48:42 AM »
Bending light upwards means that things will appear lower than they actually are.  ::)

I used the wrong formula.

The correct formula says that on  a Standard day 15c/59f and 1014mb/29.92 the refraction is 4.038... arc minutes or 0.0673 degrees.

Do you really believe that 26.57 degrees now being 26.50 degrees is going to hide the sun?

http://wise-obs.tau.ac.il/~eran/Wise/Util/Refraction.html

Edited to correct the angles to the right numbers.
« Last Edit: April 12, 2016, 06:39:04 AM by Round and Proud »
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Re: Small sun
« Reply #27 on: April 11, 2016, 11:00:08 AM »
Do you really believe that light never inferially retracts?

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Round and Proud

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Re: Small sun
« Reply #28 on: April 11, 2016, 11:06:46 AM »
Do you really believe that light never inferially retracts?

It would be a lot of help you spelled inferially correct so I know what you are asking.

Stupidity cannot be cured with money, or through education, or by legislation. Stupidity is not a sin, the victim can't help being stupid. But stupidity is the only universal capital crime...

Re: Small sun
« Reply #29 on: April 11, 2016, 11:41:05 AM »
The sun is not a spotlight.  It has been merely postulated that it acts like a spotlight.

A spotlight that shines down toward Earth, and also in the direction of the moon? How does it know to point toward the moon?

You can attempt to answer those questions, or you can give up on the postulation that the Sun acts like a spotlight.

To fall into the belief of a flat Earth is to deny YOUR OWN cognizance.