What would Governments & NASA have to gain by lying?

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Art

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What would Governments & NASA have to gain by lying?
« on: March 27, 2016, 08:02:51 AM »
Hi Guys :)
I’ve heard a reason for the Government and every other authority who could possibly see the Earth
is lying to us as an excuse for a big cash grab concerning space exploration.

I wonder why this is necessary. From when we first started to fly, people would have turned their eyes
to the Moon and stars, and wondered what was out there.
A Government might fund some research and exploration to fly as high as possible to see what we find.

So why is there a conspiracy?
We are the same curious creatures, so if something prevented us from travelling as far as we could,
why wouldn’t we work on that (and tell the people)?
There is certainly military advantage for a Nation to gain as high a view point of Earth as possible,
so there’s still every reason for a Space Race between Nations.
If we were racing to the Moon, and found that we couldn’t, why wouldn’t the competing Nation call out the “winner” as a fraud if the USA was lying.

These questions would all be the same regardless of the people at the top thinking the Earth was flat or round to begin with.


RET:0 - FET:0

Re: What would Governments & NASA have to gain by lying?
« Reply #1 on: March 27, 2016, 08:39:28 AM »
As preposterous as a flat earth concept is, a conspiracy that can be kept hidden is even more convoluted.  My answer is: Absolutely Nothing. There is no clear answer as to why there even is a conspiracy, who benefits, and why "they" would benefit.  People who fall for this stuff are gullible and seeking simple answers while blaming amorphous "illuminati" or "free masons" for this so-called conspiracy.  After spending some time looking into this (purely out of fascination) I truly believe that this is a psy-op being propagated by government agencies to bleed people's energy and discredit legitimate truth movements.  This FE nonsense is deliberately being pushed out to muddy up the waters of real investigation and to divert attention away from real conspiracies.  You could even argue that NASA is participating willingly in this game by dropping tidbits of questionable footage only to be picked up by overzealous conspiracy nuts who aren't wise enough to see they've been had.  Just look at the losers and quasi pseudo investigators that head this community...what a pathetic bunch. 

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Art

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Re: What would Governments & NASA have to gain by lying?
« Reply #2 on: March 27, 2016, 08:50:15 AM »
I read more a conspiracy than I believe when it gets to a deliberate deceit by officials!
There are enough individuals in this World to come up with all sorts of ideas that are legitimate in their own minds :D

My guess is more toward most people claiming to be flat Earth believers are actually not, and that it’s just a fun troll.

But still this particular conspiracy I read a couple of years ago, my information may not be up to date.
It’s a bit of a backbone to the whole thing. We have round images, so a lot of authorities must lie to us for a reason.
« Last Edit: March 27, 2016, 08:52:11 AM by Art »
RET:0 - FET:0

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Round and Proud

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Re: What would Governments & NASA have to gain by lying?
« Reply #3 on: March 27, 2016, 12:56:44 PM »
They don't have ANY reason to lie. In fact if the government know FE is real, there would have been a huge advantage to saying so when the Russians launched Sputnik. It would have discredited the USSR and ended the Cold War right then and there.
Stupidity cannot be cured with money, or through education, or by legislation. Stupidity is not a sin, the victim can't help being stupid. But stupidity is the only universal capital crime...

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Jadyyn

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Re: What would Governments & NASA have to gain by lying?
« Reply #4 on: March 27, 2016, 03:39:55 PM »
Well if governments wanted to keep colonies on the Moon, Mars and other places "hidden"/"a secret", they would want to keep people in two camps. Those that are "patriotic" and believe anything the government says (i.e. we landed on the Moon with Apollo), and those that think it is all fake and a conspiracy (i.e. we never landed there - Hollywood stage stuff and... the FE Society). The truth is probably in the 3rd group "they" don't want people in. This is the group that acknowledges some photos are fake and Apollo has problems (like flying through the Van Allen belts), but that is just to sidetrack what is really going on. We are out in space, probably on the Moon, Mars and beyond, and have been, IMHO since the 1950's. If we totally screw up here on Earth, at least humanity has somewhere else it can be until the Earth is OK again. Just my 2 cents.
“If you can't dazzle them with brilliance, baffle them with bullshit.” W.C. Fields.
"The amount of energy necessary to refute bullshit is an order of magnitude bigger than to produce it."
"What can be asserted without evidence can be dismissed without evidence."

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Blue_Moon

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Re: What would Governments & NASA have to gain by lying?
« Reply #5 on: March 27, 2016, 06:20:57 PM »
Well if governments wanted to keep colonies on the Moon, Mars and other places "hidden"/"a secret", they would want to keep people in two camps. Those that are "patriotic" and believe anything the government says (i.e. we landed on the Moon with Apollo), and those that think it is all fake and a conspiracy (i.e. we never landed there - Hollywood stage stuff and... the FE Society). The truth is probably in the 3rd group "they" don't want people in. This is the group that acknowledges some photos are fake and Apollo has problems (like flying through the Van Allen belts), but that is just to sidetrack what is really going on. We are out in space, probably on the Moon, Mars and beyond, and have been, IMHO since the 1950's. If we totally screw up here on Earth, at least humanity has somewhere else it can be until the Earth is OK again. Just my 2 cents.

There's no way NASA could hide a single launch, let alone the entire secret space program that you allude to.  Not only that, but why would they even want to hide it?  It's completely out of the question. 

Addressing what you said about Van Allen Belts, they weren't a problem.  The Apollo lunar transfer orbit followed an inclined trajectory that minimized exposure to the belts.  This was analyzed mathematically here.

None of the photos from the moon were faked.  They all check out, and so do the landings themselves.  If you want to read more, you can look here
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Son of Orospu

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Re: What would Governments & NASA have to gain by lying?
« Reply #6 on: March 27, 2016, 06:27:23 PM »
Controlling what the population thinks is controlling the population.  Are you people really so brainwashed that you can't understand this? 

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Blue_Moon

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Re: What would Governments & NASA have to gain by lying?
« Reply #7 on: March 27, 2016, 06:39:19 PM »
Controlling what the population thinks is controlling the population.  Are you people really so brainwashed that you can't understand this?
No, we're not the brainwashed ones.  You're the one that has committed yourself so fully to FES that you've abandoned any semblance of rationality, and now you're trying to convince everyone that you know what you're talking about, to no avail.  It really is pitiful to watch. 
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Son of Orospu

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Re: What would Governments & NASA have to gain by lying?
« Reply #8 on: March 27, 2016, 06:42:35 PM »
No, we're not the brainwashed ones. 

Oh, yeah.  That is right.  I am the one who goes to the flat Earth society in order to argue that the Earth is actually round.  ::)

It would sure be nice if one of you ever had an original thought. 

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Deostructor

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Re: What would Governments & NASA have to gain by lying?
« Reply #9 on: March 28, 2016, 04:34:55 AM »
No, we're not the brainwashed ones. 

Oh, yeah.  That is right.  I am the one who goes to the flat Earth society in order to argue that the Earth is actually round.  ::)

It would sure be nice if one of you ever had an original thought.

Original doesn't have to mean right, and in this case it isn't right.
"You still didn't prove that the Earth is flat ya twats!"
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The Earth is round.

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Son of Orospu

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Re: What would Governments & NASA have to gain by lying?
« Reply #10 on: March 28, 2016, 04:42:11 AM »
No, we're not the brainwashed ones. 

Oh, yeah.  That is right.  I am the one who goes to the flat Earth society in order to argue that the Earth is actually round.  ::)

It would sure be nice if one of you ever had an original thought.

Original doesn't have to mean right, and in this case it isn't right.

Being unoriginal also does not mean you are right.  I simply means you are part of the herd.  ::)

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Deostructor

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Re: What would Governments & NASA have to gain by lying?
« Reply #11 on: March 28, 2016, 04:58:07 AM »
No, we're not the brainwashed ones. 

Oh, yeah.  That is right.  I am the one who goes to the flat Earth society in order to argue that the Earth is actually round.  ::)

It would sure be nice if one of you ever had an original thought.

Original doesn't have to mean right, and in this case it isn't right.

Being unoriginal also does not mean you are right.  I simply means you are part of the herd.  ::)

Did I ever say I'm right just because I'm unoriginal? No, I didn't.
I'm right because you still haven't proved that the Earth is flat.
"You still didn't prove that the Earth is flat ya twats!"
-Deostructor (while editing his forum profile)


The Earth is round.

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Son of Orospu

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Re: What would Governments & NASA have to gain by lying?
« Reply #12 on: March 28, 2016, 06:45:54 AM »
No, we're not the brainwashed ones. 

Oh, yeah.  That is right.  I am the one who goes to the flat Earth society in order to argue that the Earth is actually round.  ::)

It would sure be nice if one of you ever had an original thought.

Original doesn't have to mean right, and in this case it isn't right.

Being unoriginal also does not mean you are right.  I simply means you are part of the herd.  ::)

Did I ever say I'm right just because I'm unoriginal? No, I didn't.
I'm right because you still haven't proved that the Earth is flat.

Oh, you are right because you say so?  ::)

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Sir Richard

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Re: What would Governments & NASA have to gain by lying?
« Reply #13 on: March 28, 2016, 07:01:25 AM »
Hi Guys :)
I’ve heard a reason for the Government and every other authority who could possibly see the Earth
is lying to us as an excuse for a big cash grab concerning space exploration.

I wonder why this is necessary. From when we first started to fly, people would have turned their eyes
to the Moon and stars, and wondered what was out there.
A Government might fund some research and exploration to fly as high as possible to see what we find.

So why is there a conspiracy?
We are the same curious creatures, so if something prevented us from travelling as far as we could,
why wouldn’t we work on that (and tell the people)?
There is certainly military advantage for a Nation to gain as high a view point of Earth as possible,
so there’s still every reason for a Space Race between Nations.
If we were racing to the Moon, and found that we couldn’t, why wouldn’t the competing Nation call out the “winner” as a fraud if the USA was lying.

These questions would all be the same regardless of the people at the top thinking the Earth was flat or round to begin with.
As I have posted elsewhere there are two basic conspiracy camps and for sake of argument I refer to them as "high conspiracy" and "low conspiracy". A high conspirator would tell you that the round earth is required by the cabal that is keeping humanity misled about reality so that the elite can continue to stay in power and suppress the masses. This cabal operates as described in George Orwell's 1984.

My view, as a low conspiracist, is different. We can think of this as a conspiracy of dunces with the egos and intellectual investment reinforcing the heliocentric theory. With regards to NASA, and other government agencies, they operate as MI6 (or the NSA in the United States) for the good of the populace. Churchill said it so well "The truth is so precious that it must be surrounded by a bodyguard of lies." MI6 operated without officially existing, or even being acknowledged, for over 90 years through multiple governments and parties of all stripes. Why is does the government protect this secret? The answer is simple: to protect the populace. Why is protection required?  There are two answers. The first answer is a very simple on. The agencies prevent people as well as valuable equipment from falling off the edge. The second answer is that the flat earth mechanism is very delicate. Tampering with the machismo through exploration, or other unauthorized, missions into the celestial sphere could interfere with this delicate mechanism. It is possible that man-made interference could disrupt the flat earth mechanism and end life as we know it. I believe that the climate change we are undergoing is due to alteration or tampering with the movement of key celestial bodies or possible the interference in the rotation of the ethereal whirlpool.
"Ideas are more powerful than guns. We would not let our enemies have guns, why should we let them have ideas?"  J Stalin

"It is not the people that vote that count it is the people that count the votes" J Stalin

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Deostructor

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Re: What would Governments & NASA have to gain by lying?
« Reply #14 on: March 28, 2016, 07:42:47 AM »
No, we're not the brainwashed ones. 

Oh, yeah.  That is right.  I am the one who goes to the flat Earth society in order to argue that the Earth is actually round.  ::)

It would sure be nice if one of you ever had an original thought.

Original doesn't have to mean right, and in this case it isn't right.

Being unoriginal also does not mean you are right.  I simply means you are part of the herd.  ::)

Did I ever say I'm right just because I'm unoriginal? No, I didn't.
I'm right because you still haven't proved that the Earth is flat.

Oh, you are right because you say so?  ::)

I just said I and other RE-ers are right because you don't have any evidence that the Earth is flat, you will be right when you disprove our evidence and present your evidence, which I'm still waiting for. Present us a picture that proves the FE theory.
"You still didn't prove that the Earth is flat ya twats!"
-Deostructor (while editing his forum profile)


The Earth is round.

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Sir Richard

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Re: What would Governments & NASA have to gain by lying?
« Reply #15 on: March 28, 2016, 07:53:21 AM »
No, we're not the brainwashed ones. 

Oh, yeah.  That is right.  I am the one who goes to the flat Earth society in order to argue that the Earth is actually round.  ::)

It would sure be nice if one of you ever had an original thought.

Original doesn't have to mean right, and in this case it isn't right.

Being unoriginal also does not mean you are right.  I simply means you are part of the herd.  ::)

Did I ever say I'm right just because I'm unoriginal? No, I didn't.
I'm right because you still haven't proved that the Earth is flat.

Oh, you are right because you say so?  ::)

I just said I and other RE-ers are right because you don't have any evidence that the Earth is flat, you will be right when you disprove our evidence and present your evidence, which I'm still waiting for. Present us a picture that proves the FE theory.
I presented such proofs  today on another thread dedicated to photographic proofs.
"Ideas are more powerful than guns. We would not let our enemies have guns, why should we let them have ideas?"  J Stalin

"It is not the people that vote that count it is the people that count the votes" J Stalin

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Son of Orospu

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Re: What would Governments & NASA have to gain by lying?
« Reply #16 on: March 28, 2016, 07:54:16 AM »
I just said I and other RE-ers are right because you don't have any evidence that the Earth is flat, you will be right when you disprove our evidence and present your evidence, which I'm still waiting for. Present us a picture that proves the FE theory.

It is impossible to not be right, and then later be right just because a new piece of evidence is presented.  The person was right all along, but you were wrong in your determination that he was not right.  Am I right? 

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Deostructor

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Re: What would Governments & NASA have to gain by lying?
« Reply #17 on: March 28, 2016, 08:12:22 AM »
I just said I and other RE-ers are right because you don't have any evidence that the Earth is flat, you will be right when you disprove our evidence and present your evidence, which I'm still waiting for. Present us a picture that proves the FE theory.

It is impossible to not be right, and then later be right just because a new piece of evidence is presented.  The person was right all along, but you were wrong in your determination that he was not right.  Am I right?

When you're looking form the perspective of someone that knows everything, you are right, but we don't know everything, and it's rational to believe the person with evidence, rather than the opposition without it. So if the opposition disproves original evidence, and finds other evidence to back it's claims, it suddenly becomes rational to believe them.

All of that aside, I would like to see the visual evidence of a flat Earth, if such evidence exists, if you or anyone else doesn't present it it would be rational to believe that the Earth is round.
"You still didn't prove that the Earth is flat ya twats!"
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The Earth is round.

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Son of Orospu

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Re: What would Governments & NASA have to gain by lying?
« Reply #18 on: March 28, 2016, 08:43:02 AM »
I just said I and other RE-ers are right because you don't have any evidence that the Earth is flat, you will be right when you disprove our evidence and present your evidence, which I'm still waiting for. Present us a picture that proves the FE theory.

It is impossible to not be right, and then later be right just because a new piece of evidence is presented.  The person was right all along, but you were wrong in your determination that he was not right.  Am I right?

When you're looking form the perspective of someone that knows everything, you are right, but we don't know everything, and it's rational to believe the person with evidence, rather than the opposition without it. So if the opposition disproves original evidence, and finds other evidence to back it's claims, it suddenly becomes rational to believe them.

All of that aside, I would like to see the visual evidence of a flat Earth, if such evidence exists, if you or anyone else doesn't present it it would be rational to believe that the Earth is round.

In the American legal system, a person should not be convicted of a crime if there is reasonable doubt that the person committed said crime.  I have presented reasonable doubt on many occasions against your RET.  You simply chose to ignore what I say and then proclaim yourself right for lack of evidence against you.  You want to be the judge, jury, and executioner for the flat Earth movement.  Well, I have news for you, not everyone is as closed minded as yourself. 

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Deostructor

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Re: What would Governments & NASA have to gain by lying?
« Reply #19 on: March 28, 2016, 10:39:27 AM »
I just said I and other RE-ers are right because you don't have any evidence that the Earth is flat, you will be right when you disprove our evidence and present your evidence, which I'm still waiting for. Present us a picture that proves the FE theory.

It is impossible to not be right, and then later be right just because a new piece of evidence is presented.  The person was right all along, but you were wrong in your determination that he was not right.  Am I right?

When you're looking form the perspective of someone that knows everything, you are right, but we don't know everything, and it's rational to believe the person with evidence, rather than the opposition without it. So if the opposition disproves original evidence, and finds other evidence to back it's claims, it suddenly becomes rational to believe them.

All of that aside, I would like to see the visual evidence of a flat Earth, if such evidence exists, if you or anyone else doesn't present it it would be rational to believe that the Earth is round.

In the American legal system, a person should not be convicted of a crime if there is reasonable doubt that the person committed said crime.  I have presented reasonable doubt on many occasions against your RET.  You simply chose to ignore what I say and then proclaim yourself right for lack of evidence against you.  You want to be the judge, jury, and executioner for the flat Earth movement.  Well, I have news for you, not everyone is as closed minded as yourself.

I'm new to the forum, and I didn't read much of your previous posts, so please point me towards the reasonable doubt.
"You still didn't prove that the Earth is flat ya twats!"
-Deostructor (while editing his forum profile)


The Earth is round.

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Son of Orospu

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Re: What would Governments & NASA have to gain by lying?
« Reply #20 on: March 28, 2016, 10:56:25 AM »
I'm new to the forum, and I didn't read much of your previous posts, so please point me towards the reasonable doubt.

On which topic, specifically?

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Jadyyn

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Re: What would Governments & NASA have to gain by lying?
« Reply #21 on: March 28, 2016, 12:07:11 PM »
Well if governments wanted to keep colonies on the Moon, Mars and other places "hidden"/"a secret", they would want to keep people in two camps. Those that are "patriotic" and believe anything the government says (i.e. we landed on the Moon with Apollo), and those that think it is all fake and a conspiracy (i.e. we never landed there - Hollywood stage stuff and... the FE Society). The truth is probably in the 3rd group "they" don't want people in. This is the group that acknowledges some photos are fake and Apollo has problems (like flying through the Van Allen belts), but that is just to sidetrack what is really going on. We are out in space, probably on the Moon, Mars and beyond, and have been, IMHO since the 1950's. If we totally screw up here on Earth, at least humanity has somewhere else it can be until the Earth is OK again. Just my 2 cents.

There's no way NASA could hide a single launch, let alone the entire secret space program that you allude to.  Not only that, but why would they even want to hide it?  It's completely out of the question. 

Addressing what you said about Van Allen Belts, they weren't a problem.  The Apollo lunar transfer orbit followed an inclined trajectory that minimized exposure to the belts.  This was analyzed mathematically here.

None of the photos from the moon were faked.  They all check out, and so do the landings themselves.  If you want to read more, you can look here.
A) The launches are not in dispute. After launch, that is the question. Were they just orbiting the Earth?

B) If they flew fast enough through the Van Allen belts it probably would be OK.

C) There are LOTS of photos that were manipulated. Some were real, others not.

Some common ones:

The camera manufacturer can't explain the spotlight effect - there shouldn't be one (the Moon should be lit equally like in the land rover image below):


As the crosshairs are INSIDE the camera, the land rover should not be on top of them (you can Google "Apollo crosshairs" for more images) and no tire tracks:


No tire tracks and notice the dirt inside the wheel hub:


Also several here (BTW, if you are into this stuff, this site is awesome):


(http://www.marsanomalyresearch.com/evidence-reports/2008/152/moon-evidence-4.htm)

There is no doubt some images of Moon landings are manipulated.
« Last Edit: March 28, 2016, 12:23:18 PM by Jadyyn »
“If you can't dazzle them with brilliance, baffle them with bullshit.” W.C. Fields.
"The amount of energy necessary to refute bullshit is an order of magnitude bigger than to produce it."
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frenat

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Re: What would Governments & NASA have to gain by lying?
« Reply #22 on: March 28, 2016, 12:37:35 PM »
Well if governments wanted to keep colonies on the Moon, Mars and other places "hidden"/"a secret", they would want to keep people in two camps. Those that are "patriotic" and believe anything the government says (i.e. we landed on the Moon with Apollo), and those that think it is all fake and a conspiracy (i.e. we never landed there - Hollywood stage stuff and... the FE Society). The truth is probably in the 3rd group "they" don't want people in. This is the group that acknowledges some photos are fake and Apollo has problems (like flying through the Van Allen belts), but that is just to sidetrack what is really going on. We are out in space, probably on the Moon, Mars and beyond, and have been, IMHO since the 1950's. If we totally screw up here on Earth, at least humanity has somewhere else it can be until the Earth is OK again. Just my 2 cents.

There's no way NASA could hide a single launch, let alone the entire secret space program that you allude to.  Not only that, but why would they even want to hide it?  It's completely out of the question. 

Addressing what you said about Van Allen Belts, they weren't a problem.  The Apollo lunar transfer orbit followed an inclined trajectory that minimized exposure to the belts.  This was analyzed mathematically here.

None of the photos from the moon were faked.  They all check out, and so do the landings themselves.  If you want to read more, you can look here.
A) The launches are not in dispute. After launch, that is the question. Were they just orbiting the Earth?
No, they would have been seen and they were seen leaving Earth orbit

B) If they flew fast enough through the Van Allen belts it probably would be OK.
Their trajectory took them around the thickest parts of the belts.

C) There are LOTS of photos that were manipulated. Some were real, others not.

Some common ones:

The camera manufacturer can't explain the spotlight effect - there shouldn't be one (the Moon should be lit equally like in the land rover image below):
Looks like heiligenschein.  that particular picture has also had its light level adjusted which artificially accentuated it.


As the crosshairs are INSIDE the camera, the land rover should not be on top of them (you can Google "Apollo crosshairs" for more images) and no tire tracks:
The land rover is not on top of them.  they only seem to disappear on low res photos and on brightly lit white objects.  They are usually visible on the high res photos
More about that here
http://www.clavius.org/photoret.html
My favorite is the one where it disappears on only the white stripes of the flag, unless you think those were pasted in later?
As for the tire tracks, they were often obscured by the wheels themselves at low speed and by dirt kicked around by the astronauts when they walked around.

No tire tracks and notice the dirt inside the wheel hub:
Same as above.

Also several here (BTW, if you are into this stuff, this site is awesome):


(http://www.marsanomalyresearch.com/evidence-reports/2008/152/moon-evidence-4.htm)
different locations and the hills are NOT the same just similar as you would expect with distant mountains. Shadows are as you'd expect from perspective and terrain.

There is no doubt some images of Moon landings are manipulated.
Not that I've seen.

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Uninvited Guest

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Re: What would Governments & NASA have to gain by lying?
« Reply #23 on: March 28, 2016, 12:51:13 PM »
[...] for a big cash grab concerning space exploration.

Where did you get this from? Sounds funny.
We live in a business world with Institutions trying to grab our attention. Nasa is just one of them, a network that has developed a sci-fi public. It doesn’t mean everything they do is lie. But it means most things are just marketing (eg moon landings). But when you challenge institutions’ knowledge and truth, ‘conspiracy’ is what they call. I’d be careful to label things “conspiracy”, because you’re taking hold of the dominant ideological apparatus.
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Blue_Moon

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Re: What would Governments & NASA have to gain by lying?
« Reply #24 on: March 28, 2016, 01:06:47 PM »
[...] for a big cash grab concerning space exploration.

Where did you get this from? Sounds funny.
We live in a business world with Institutions trying to grab our attention. Nasa is just one of them, a network that has developed a sci-fi public. It doesn’t mean everything they do is lie. But it means most things are just marketing (eg moon landings). But when you challenge institutions’ knowledge and truth, ‘conspiracy’ is what they call. I’d be careful to label things “conspiracy”, because you’re taking hold of the dominant ideological apparatus.
I didn't follow most of what you just said, but I know the moon landings were not just marketing.  They don't mix marketing with engineering. 
They need to keep a public presence to keep the people (and by extension, the congressmen) interested and informed.  The things that they do are absolutely fascinating (and definitely true), so why would they not tell people about it? 
Furthermore, if they weren't doing what they said, there would be thousands of astronomers, amateur and otherwise, that would call their bluff. 
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Re: What would Governments & NASA have to gain by lying?
« Reply #25 on: March 28, 2016, 01:18:24 PM »
Hi Guys :)
I’ve heard a reason for the Government and every other authority who could possibly see the Earth
is lying to us as an excuse for a big cash grab concerning space exploration.

I wonder why this is necessary. From when we first started to fly, people would have turned their eyes
to the Moon and stars, and wondered what was out there.
A Government might fund some research and exploration to fly as high as possible to see what we find.

So why is there a conspiracy?
We are the same curious creatures, so if something prevented us from travelling as far as we could,
why wouldn’t we work on that (and tell the people)?
There is certainly military advantage for a Nation to gain as high a view point of Earth as possible,
so there’s still every reason for a Space Race between Nations.
If we were racing to the Moon, and found that we couldn’t, why wouldn’t the competing Nation call out the “winner” as a fraud if the USA was lying.

These questions would all be the same regardless of the people at the top thinking the Earth was flat or round to begin with.
As I have posted elsewhere there are two basic conspiracy camps and for sake of argument I refer to them as "high conspiracy" and "low conspiracy". A high conspirator would tell you that the round earth is required by the cabal that is keeping humanity misled about reality so that the elite can continue to stay in power and suppress the masses. This cabal operates as described in George Orwell's 1984.

My view, as a low conspiracist, is different. We can think of this as a conspiracy of dunces with the egos and intellectual investment reinforcing the heliocentric theory. With regards to NASA, and other government agencies, they operate as MI6 (or the NSA in the United States) for the good of the populace. Churchill said it so well "The truth is so precious that it must be surrounded by a bodyguard of lies." MI6 operated without officially existing, or even being acknowledged, for over 90 years through multiple governments and parties of all stripes. Why is does the government protect this secret? The answer is simple: to protect the populace. Why is protection required?  There are two answers. The first answer is a very simple on. The agencies prevent people as well as valuable equipment from falling off the edge. The second answer is that the flat earth mechanism is very delicate. Tampering with the machismo through exploration, or other unauthorized, missions into the celestial sphere could interfere with this delicate mechanism. It is possible that man-made interference could disrupt the flat earth mechanism and end life as we know it. I believe that the climate change we are undergoing is due to alteration or tampering with the movement of key celestial bodies or possible the interference in the rotation of the ethereal whirlpool.

A banking "cabal" or a military "cabal" per se, yes it's quite possible. What ISN'T possible is a 500 year conspiracy that spans a huge number of industries, involving 100,000's of individuals, and across every country on this planet.  And you want to tell me that our biggest pariahs wouldn't want to leak this story? There still have not been any credible scientists that have become whistle blowers...and how come no secret documents were never leaked...not by ANYONE, EVER! This is pure insanity.  You cannot compare the "Manhattan Project" which was a secret wartime project to something that is many times orders of magnitude more complex and larger...not to mention the time scale involved here.  Get real.

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Uninvited Guest

  • 213
  • A clone cloned by a smartphone
Re: What would Governments & NASA have to gain by lying?
« Reply #26 on: March 28, 2016, 02:12:17 PM »
[...] for a big cash grab concerning space exploration.

Where did you get this from? Sounds funny.
We live in a business world with Institutions trying to grab our attention. Nasa is just one of them, a network that has developed a sci-fi public. It doesn’t mean everything they do is lie. But it means most things are just marketing (eg moon landings). But when you challenge institutions’ knowledge and truth, ‘conspiracy’ is what they call. I’d be careful to label things “conspiracy”, because you’re taking hold of the dominant ideological apparatus.
I didn't follow most of what you just said, but I know the moon landings were not just marketing.  They don't mix marketing with engineering. 
They need to keep a public presence to keep the people (and by extension, the congressmen) interested and informed.  The things that they do are absolutely fascinating (and definitely true), so why would they not tell people about it? 
Furthermore, if they weren't doing what they said, there would be thousands of astronomers, amateur and otherwise, that would call their bluff.

Why wouldn’t they mix marketing with engineering if they’ve plenty of resources?
Could you cite one among these thousands of astronomers you trust?
The science in her trance will make the sign of cross
And we will light bonfires to appreciate the electric bulb.

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Blue_Moon

  • 846
  • Defender of NASA
Re: What would Governments & NASA have to gain by lying?
« Reply #27 on: March 28, 2016, 02:46:53 PM »
[...] for a big cash grab concerning space exploration.

Where did you get this from? Sounds funny.
We live in a business world with Institutions trying to grab our attention. Nasa is just one of them, a network that has developed a sci-fi public. It doesn’t mean everything they do is lie. But it means most things are just marketing (eg moon landings). But when you challenge institutions’ knowledge and truth, ‘conspiracy’ is what they call. I’d be careful to label things “conspiracy”, because you’re taking hold of the dominant ideological apparatus.
I didn't follow most of what you just said, but I know the moon landings were not just marketing.  They don't mix marketing with engineering. 
They need to keep a public presence to keep the people (and by extension, the congressmen) interested and informed.  The things that they do are absolutely fascinating (and definitely true), so why would they not tell people about it? 
Furthermore, if they weren't doing what they said, there would be thousands of astronomers, amateur and otherwise, that would call their bluff.

Why wouldn’t they mix marketing with engineering if they’ve plenty of resources?
Could you cite one among these thousands of astronomers you trust?
Here you go
They don't have the resources you think they do.  Most of the funds are actually paid to contractors. 
Aerospace Engineering Student
NASA Enthusiast
Round Earth Advocate
More qualified to speak for NASA than you are to speak against them

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Jadyyn

  • 1533
Re: What would Governments & NASA have to gain by lying?
« Reply #28 on: March 28, 2016, 02:54:17 PM »
Well if governments wanted to keep colonies on the Moon, Mars and other places "hidden"/"a secret", they would want to keep people in two camps. Those that are "patriotic" and believe anything the government says (i.e. we landed on the Moon with Apollo), and those that think it is all fake and a conspiracy (i.e. we never landed there - Hollywood stage stuff and... the FE Society). The truth is probably in the 3rd group "they" don't want people in. This is the group that acknowledges some photos are fake and Apollo has problems (like flying through the Van Allen belts), but that is just to sidetrack what is really going on. We are out in space, probably on the Moon, Mars and beyond, and have been, IMHO since the 1950's. If we totally screw up here on Earth, at least humanity has somewhere else it can be until the Earth is OK again. Just my 2 cents.

There's no way NASA could hide a single launch, let alone the entire secret space program that you allude to.  Not only that, but why would they even want to hide it?  It's completely out of the question. 

Addressing what you said about Van Allen Belts, they weren't a problem.  The Apollo lunar transfer orbit followed an inclined trajectory that minimized exposure to the belts.  This was analyzed mathematically here.

None of the photos from the moon were faked.  They all check out, and so do the landings themselves.  If you want to read more, you can look here.
A) The launches are not in dispute. After launch, that is the question. Were they just orbiting the Earth?
No, they would have been seen and they were seen leaving Earth orbit

B) If they flew fast enough through the Van Allen belts it probably would be OK.
Their trajectory took them around the thickest parts of the belts.

C) There are LOTS of photos that were manipulated. Some were real, others not.

Some common ones:

The camera manufacturer can't explain the spotlight effect - there shouldn't be one (the Moon should be lit equally like in the land rover image below):
Looks like heiligenschein.  that particular picture has also had its light level adjusted which artificially accentuated it.


As the crosshairs are INSIDE the camera, the land rover should not be on top of them (you can Google "Apollo crosshairs" for more images) and no tire tracks:
The land rover is not on top of them.  they only seem to disappear on low res photos and on brightly lit white objects.  They are usually visible on the high res photos
More about that here
http://www.clavius.org/photoret.html
My favorite is the one where it disappears on only the white stripes of the flag, unless you think those were pasted in later?
As for the tire tracks, they were often obscured by the wheels themselves at low speed and by dirt kicked around by the astronauts when they walked around.

No tire tracks and notice the dirt inside the wheel hub:
Same as above.

Also several here (BTW, if you are into this stuff, this site is awesome):


(http://www.marsanomalyresearch.com/evidence-reports/2008/152/moon-evidence-4.htm)
different locations and the hills are NOT the same just similar as you would expect with distant mountains. Shadows are as you'd expect from perspective and terrain.

There is no doubt some images of Moon landings are manipulated.
Not that I've seen.
1) Having looked through some other pictures with crosshairs, they do seem to disappear when going across very white/bright surfaces. So the thin black lines can be washed out. OK...

2) That is not heiligenschein. Heilgenschein is around the SHADOW of something when backlit, not around a person. Look at the last pictures of the person taking them toward the left side. THAT is Heilgenschein around his shadow. This is Heilgenschein:


2) The high-res photo doesn't have tracks at all. BTW, that is the rear right wheel, so there should be tracks to the left. The footprints to the right MIGHT cover something up, but not the to the left. Check out that wheel compared to the land rover in the picture above it.

3) The two panoramic shots are the same location. The bottom one is slightly closer than the top one. You should be able to see the same features in both images. Only the background looks the same, including craters and such. Nothing in the foreground (rocks) matches.
“If you can't dazzle them with brilliance, baffle them with bullshit.” W.C. Fields.
"The amount of energy necessary to refute bullshit is an order of magnitude bigger than to produce it."
"What can be asserted without evidence can be dismissed without evidence."

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frenat

  • 3474
Re: What would Governments & NASA have to gain by lying?
« Reply #29 on: March 28, 2016, 03:49:27 PM »

2) That is not heiligenschein. Heilgenschein is around the SHADOW of something when backlit, not around a person. Look at the last pictures of the person taking them toward the left side. THAT is Heilgenschein around his shadow. This is Heilgenschein:
I didn't say it was heiligenschein.  I said it looked like it.  I believe it has a similar cause.  And again that photo has had its light adjusted.  The brightest area of the soil appears to be at a slightly different angle from the soil around it.  It could just be that area reflected more in the direction of the photographer due to a coincidental angle.  What do you think caused it?

3) The high-res photo doesn't have tracks at all. BTW, that is the rear right wheel, so there should be tracks to the left. The footprints to the right MIGHT cover something up, but not the to the left. Check out that wheel compared to the land rover in the picture above it.
Not just footprints but dirt kicked as they were walking around.  AND as previously mentioned, the wheels did not always leave good tracks as they would obscure their own tracks especially at low speeds.  Dirt would get caught in the mesh and redeposited as the wheels slowed.

3) The two panoramic shots are the same location. The bottom one is slightly closer than the top one. You should be able to see the same features in both images. Only the background looks the same, including craters and such. Nothing in the foreground (rocks) matches.
They are not the same location.  The site you linked to even says that.  The pictures themselves state one is the landing site and one is the ALSEP station.  So you should NOT see the same features in both images.  The backgrounds are similar (as they should be) but not exactly the same and of course the foreground doesn't match and it shouldn't.  If you find the second panorama ona site you can zoom in, you can see the lander in the distance right of center
http://www.lpi.usra.edu/resources/apollopanoramas/pans/?pan=JSC2004e52772