Question time with JB: Serious questions for FE supporters

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Question time with JB: Serious questions for FE supporters
« on: March 22, 2016, 04:17:43 PM »
Is there any way some FE supporter(s) could provide me with some simple numbers? I'm talking about an FE model as I have come to realize there are many, which has some firm mathematics at its core? So far, I have obtained a few numbers, that the sun is roughly 3000-5000 miles from the surface of flat earth and that it is somewhere in the range of 32 miles in diameter?  Are there any numbers for the surface area of the flat earth?  Orbital circumferences of sun and moon, the degree of orbital circumference shift over time, anything along these lines? From what I've researched on my own it is quite difficult to collect usable data as I don't understand the difference between differing versions of FE. Of course using number based on RE and combining those with the numbers I have of the FE, do not work out. For example, in the case of the sun being 32 miles in diameter and 3000 miles above the FE, it takes no time to calculate that the "spotlight" or illuminated area of the earth's surface is over 28 million square miles, less than 10% of the estimated RE surface area. In the RE model, the earth's surface should be at least 50% illuminated by the suns light at any given time, meaning somewhere on the magnitude of 0.5×(510.1×10^6) square miles will be illuminated, not including the refraction of light through the atmosphere to parts of the earth not yet directly in line with the sun. Also, how long can a sun only 32 miles in diameter burn before it's fuel is spent? If the earth is a flat disk then do we see the "bottom" of the disk moon? Could there be other life on the "top" side? Is the sun also flat? Just how flat is flat? Is it possible to drill straight through the earth? How do you explain tectonic activity on a flat earth? Where is this elusive dark moon thing that allegedly causes lunar eclipses when the earth and sun are not lined up with it? Is the magnetic north pole on the "bottom" of FE or is it the geographic NP? How did life start on FE and is evolution compatible with this model? I don't expect an answer to every question, but some clarification would be nice.
“Advances are made by answering questions. Discoveries are made by questioning answers.”
-Bernhard Haisch, Astrophysicist

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Son of Orospu

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Re: Question time with JB: Serious questions for FE supporters
« Reply #1 on: March 22, 2016, 04:31:46 PM »
You have the same avatar as 29silhouette.  Perhaps you should consider finding a more original one in order to not confuse our members? 

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Blue_Moon

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Re: Question time with JB: Serious questions for FE supporters
« Reply #2 on: March 22, 2016, 05:26:43 PM »
You have the same avatar as 29silhouette.  Perhaps you should consider finding a more original one in order to not confuse our members?
Wow.  Instead of answering his perfectly valid questions, you bring up his avatar, something better saved for a PM. 
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Re: Question time with JB: Serious questions for FE supporters
« Reply #3 on: March 22, 2016, 05:59:11 PM »
You have the same avatar as 29silhouette.  Perhaps you should consider finding a more original one in order to not confuse our members?

Could you at least address his argument while pointing out his avatar. Btw welcome to the trenches OP.
The Bible doesn't support a flat earth.

Scripture, facts, science, stats, and logic is how I argue.

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Son of Orospu

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Re: Question time with JB: Serious questions for FE supporters
« Reply #4 on: March 22, 2016, 06:18:43 PM »
You have the same avatar as 29silhouette.  Perhaps you should consider finding a more original one in order to not confuse our members?
Wow.  Instead of answering his perfectly valid questions, you bring up his avatar, something better saved for a PM. 
NICE DODGE

What did I dodge?  Seriously, I want to know, because I could find no point in that jumbled up wall of text with 80 question marks.  If you could decipher it and tell me what the point of the post was, I will be happy to address it.  If you think I am going to write a 10,000 word essay in order to address each of these question marks in this mess of a paragraph that changes directions more often than the RET, then I am sorry, you are out of luck. 

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Son of Orospu

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Re: Question time with JB: Serious questions for FE supporters
« Reply #5 on: March 22, 2016, 06:20:04 PM »
You have the same avatar as 29silhouette.  Perhaps you should consider finding a more original one in order to not confuse our members?

Could you at least address his argument while pointing out his avatar. Btw welcome to the trenches OP.

See my post above.  You have been here long enough to know that nobody will bother to answer a spaghetti post like this. 

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Rayzor

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Re: Question time with JB: Serious questions for FE supporters
« Reply #6 on: March 22, 2016, 06:22:54 PM »
You have the same avatar as 29silhouette.  Perhaps you should consider finding a more original one in order to not confuse our members?

That's Ricky from the Trailer Park,   he might have that double wide on the corner?  Maybe he could use bubbles?

http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0290988/


« Last Edit: March 22, 2016, 06:29:17 PM by Rayzor »
Stop gilding the pickle, you demisexual aromantic homoflexible snowflake.

Re: Question time with JB: Serious questions for FE supporters
« Reply #7 on: March 22, 2016, 09:47:57 PM »
You have the same avatar as 29silhouette.  Perhaps you should consider finding a more original one in order to not confuse our members?
Wow.  Instead of answering his perfectly valid questions, you bring up his avatar, something better saved for a PM. 
NICE DODGE

What did I dodge?  Seriously, I want to know, because I could find no point in that jumbled up wall of text with 80 question marks.  If you could decipher it and tell me what the point of the post was, I will be happy to address it.  If you think I am going to write a 10,000 word essay in order to address each of these question marks in this mess of a paragraph that changes directions more often than the RET, then I am sorry, you are out of luck.
It shouldn't be too hard to decipher. I'm asking for simple usable and testable proofs from the FE community that supports the model from those who have any. And yes I jumped all over the fuckin place in that post and the majority went off topic but the aim was to provide examples of proofs that would be desirable. It's titled question time ffs go hard or go home bro. I also said not all questions are awaiting answers, they were just problems that arise in the FE model which I have not obtained an understandable or satisfactory explanation for. I made sure to minimize punctuation in this post so as to not overwhelm you. Again, I'm searching for reasonable evidence that supports the FE side of the debate I'm trying to get a better idea of the FE perspective so I can consider it as fairly as the evidence suggests it should be considered. That evidence is what I am asking for not your childish complaints of my excessive use of particular punctuation marks and poor organization of my thoughts. It was taken into consideration and there's litterally zero fucks given sorry bro.
“Advances are made by answering questions. Discoveries are made by questioning answers.”
-Bernhard Haisch, Astrophysicist

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rabinoz

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Re: Question time with JB: Serious questions for FE supporters
« Reply #8 on: March 22, 2016, 09:55:39 PM »
You have the same avatar as 29silhouette.  Perhaps you should consider finding a more original one in order to not confuse our members?
Good point, some only look at the pictures.

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Slemon

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Re: Question time with JB: Serious questions for FE supporters
« Reply #9 on: March 23, 2016, 04:07:54 AM »
We all know deep in our hearts that Jane is the last face we'll see before we're choked to death!

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Sir Richard

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Re: Question time with JB: Serious questions for FE supporters
« Reply #10 on: March 23, 2016, 01:12:33 PM »
Is there any way some FE supporter(s) could provide me with some simple numbers? I'm talking about an FE model as I have come to realize there are many, which has some firm mathematics at its core? So far, I have obtained a few numbers, that the sun is roughly 3000-5000 miles from the surface of flat earth and that it is somewhere in the range of 32 miles in diameter?  Are there any numbers for the surface area of the flat earth?  Orbital circumferences of sun and moon, the degree of orbital circumference shift over time, anything along these lines? From what I've researched on my own it is quite difficult to collect usable data as I don't understand the difference between differing versions of FE. Of course using number based on RE and combining those with the numbers I have of the FE, do not work out. For example, in the case of the sun being 32 miles in diameter and 3000 miles above the FE, it takes no time to calculate that the "spotlight" or illuminated area of the earth's surface is over 28 million square miles, less than 10% of the estimated RE surface area. In the RE model, the earth's surface should be at least 50% illuminated by the suns light at any given time, meaning somewhere on the magnitude of 0.5×(510.1×10^6) square miles will be illuminated, not including the refraction of light through the atmosphere to parts of the earth not yet directly in line with the sun. Also, how long can a sun only 32 miles in diameter burn before it's fuel is spent? If the earth is a flat disk then do we see the "bottom" of the disk moon? Could there be other life on the "top" side? Is the sun also flat? Just how flat is flat? Is it possible to drill straight through the earth? How do you explain tectonic activity on a flat earth? Where is this elusive dark moon thing that allegedly causes lunar eclipses when the earth and sun are not lined up with it? Is the magnetic north pole on the "bottom" of FE or is it the geographic NP? How did life start on FE and is evolution compatible with this model? I don't expect an answer to every question, but some clarification would be nice.

Although JROA can come off as somewhat brutish (and he can be drollish in his humour I daresay) he does have a point. It would be far better if you would spend a bit of time reading the wiki or some of the works that are posted on the FE Society home page prior to posting a series of questions. Second to that JROA does have the right of it, which is that the unwritten Tenet is to debate one aspect of a theory at a time.
For example- one could pose the question "If the Earth is flat are we looking at the bottom of the earth". Upon reflection that is a poor question because it assumes Flat Earth theorists have coalesced around the belief that all celestial bodies are flat. However a bit of research would show that this is not the case. So better put would be a question such as "Are celestial bodies flat or round, and please provide an explanation of their movements."

With regards to the sun running out of fuel- it is estimated that, based on its size (32 miles in diameter) and the amount helium that is left that the sun has about 924,456 years before it runs out of fuel so you have no worries.

With regards to the moon- luna is a self illuminating sphere. Observation show us that most moving celestial bodies are spheres, as is the sun and most of the moving bodies inhabiting the celestial spheres.

With regards to tectonic theory is is very simple (on a Flat Earth)- Outgoing plates subduct and are recycled at the ice wall.  The edges of the earth keep all the magma inside. On occasion when the magma pressure is to great then we get a fissure or volcanic activity where the plane of the earth is it most weak.

Evolution
With regards to evolution most scientist agree that life spontaneously occurring on life is well nigh statistically impossible. This is not "Creation Scientists" I am speaking of but respected biologists and evolutionists. The models and statistical changes are close to zero for this to occur even given the 4 billion year old earth (a number I dispute).  Just to clarify I am an evolutionist who also believes in a Supreme Being and Creator.

Here is a most interesting link to this http://www.panspermia-theory.com

Mind you I am not a supporter of Pan Spermia I am just pointing out that scientists and statisticians, using current  models, have come to the realization that chances spontaneous occurrence of life on Earth are less than Zero.

As for me I cannot accept the theory that life on earth arrived on the back of a meteor from Mars some 4 billion years ago. This solution begs the question- if it did not arise here, then where did it arise from?

In summary if you think the round earth supplies some convenient answer to how life arrived or the mechanism that move it towards evolution you are mistaken.

You have made a worthy first post. But please learn from it. Please attempt to limit yourself to one aspect of the theory to be questioned or debated.
« Last Edit: March 23, 2016, 01:15:14 PM by Sir Richard »
"Ideas are more powerful than guns. We would not let our enemies have guns, why should we let them have ideas?"  J Stalin

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Re: Question time with JB: Serious questions for FE supporters
« Reply #11 on: March 23, 2016, 01:30:23 PM »
You have the same avatar as 29silhouette.  Perhaps you should consider finding a more original one in order to not confuse our members?
Wow.  Instead of answering his perfectly valid questions, you bring up his avatar, something better saved for a PM. 
NICE DODGE

What did I dodge?  Seriously, I want to know, because I could find no point in that jumbled up wall of text with 80 question marks.  If you could decipher it and tell me what the point of the post was, I will be happy to address it.  If you think I am going to write a 10,000 word essay in order to address each of these question marks in this mess of a paragraph that changes directions more often than the RET, then I am sorry, you are out of luck. 

Let me help you out, jroa. I'll extract one of the questions from his post so you don't get overwhelmed. If you can answer this one, then I'll give you another one. Ready?

What is the surface area of a flat earth?

If that was too much, let me know and I'll ask a simpler one.

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Son of Orospu

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Re: Question time with JB: Serious questions for FE supporters
« Reply #12 on: March 23, 2016, 02:28:51 PM »
Thank you for changing your avatar, Juicyblunts2016.  It will be a lot less confusing for our newer members now.  That is all I was asking for.

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Son of Orospu

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Re: Question time with JB: Serious questions for FE supporters
« Reply #13 on: March 23, 2016, 02:32:00 PM »
You have the same avatar as 29silhouette.  Perhaps you should consider finding a more original one in order to not confuse our members?
Wow.  Instead of answering his perfectly valid questions, you bring up his avatar, something better saved for a PM. 
NICE DODGE

What did I dodge?  Seriously, I want to know, because I could find no point in that jumbled up wall of text with 80 question marks.  If you could decipher it and tell me what the point of the post was, I will be happy to address it.  If you think I am going to write a 10,000 word essay in order to address each of these question marks in this mess of a paragraph that changes directions more often than the RET, then I am sorry, you are out of luck. 

Let me help you out, jroa. I'll extract one of the questions from his post so you don't get overwhelmed. If you can answer this one, then I'll give you another one. Ready?

What is the surface area of a flat earth?

If that was too much, let me know and I'll ask a simpler one.

How should I know?  If I knew the dimensions and shape of the Earth, then it would be easy for me to calculate the surface area.  However, I don't know this data, and I don't remember anyone else ever claiming to know this data.  Do you want for me to make a wild guess? 

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Yendor

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Re: Question time with JB: Serious questions for FE supporters
« Reply #14 on: March 23, 2016, 02:48:01 PM »
You have the same avatar as 29silhouette.  Perhaps you should consider finding a more original one in order to not confuse our members?
Wow.  Instead of answering his perfectly valid questions, you bring up his avatar, something better saved for a PM. 
NICE DODGE

What did I dodge?  Seriously, I want to know, because I could find no point in that jumbled up wall of text with 80 question marks.  If you could decipher it and tell me what the point of the post was, I will be happy to address it.  If you think I am going to write a 10,000 word essay in order to address each of these question marks in this mess of a paragraph that changes directions more often than the RET, then I am sorry, you are out of luck. 

Let me help you out, jroa. I'll extract one of the questions from his post so you don't get overwhelmed. If you can answer this one, then I'll give you another one. Ready?

What is the surface area of a flat earth?

If that was too much, let me know and I'll ask a simpler one.

How should I know?  If I knew the dimensions and shape of the Earth, then it would be easy for me to calculate the surface area.  However, I don't know this data, and I don't remember anyone else ever claiming to know this data.  Do you want for me to make a wild guess?

You mean the SWAG method?
"During times of universal deceit, telling the truth becomes a revolutionary act."
                              George Orwell

Re: Question time with JB: Serious questions for FE supporters
« Reply #15 on: March 23, 2016, 06:11:45 PM »
Is there any way some FE supporter(s) could provide me with some simple numbers? I'm talking about an FE model as I have come to realize there are many, which has some firm mathematics at its core? So far, I have obtained a few numbers, that the sun is roughly 3000-5000 miles from the surface of flat earth and that it is somewhere in the range of 32 miles in diameter?  Are there any numbers for the surface area of the flat earth?  Orbital circumferences of sun and moon, the degree of orbital circumference shift over time, anything along these lines? From what I've researched on my own it is quite difficult to collect usable data as I don't understand the difference between differing versions of FE. Of course using number based on RE and combining those with the numbers I have of the FE, do not work out. For example, in the case of the sun being 32 miles in diameter and 3000 miles above the FE, it takes no time to calculate that the "spotlight" or illuminated area of the earth's surface is over 28 million square miles, less than 10% of the estimated RE surface area. In the RE model, the earth's surface should be at least 50% illuminated by the suns light at any given time, meaning somewhere on the magnitude of 0.5×(510.1×10^6) square miles will be illuminated, not including the refraction of light through the atmosphere to parts of the earth not yet directly in line with the sun. Also, how long can a sun only 32 miles in diameter burn before it's fuel is spent? If the earth is a flat disk then do we see the "bottom" of the disk moon? Could there be other life on the "top" side? Is the sun also flat? Just how flat is flat? Is it possible to drill straight through the earth? How do you explain tectonic activity on a flat earth? Where is this elusive dark moon thing that allegedly causes lunar eclipses when the earth and sun are not lined up with it? Is the magnetic north pole on the "bottom" of FE or is it the geographic NP? How did life start on FE and is evolution compatible with this model? I don't expect an answer to every question, but some clarification would be nice.

Although JROA can come off as somewhat brutish (and he can be drollish in his humour I daresay) he does have a point. It would be far better if you would spend a bit of time reading the wiki or some of the works that are posted on the FE Society home page prior to posting a series of questions. Second to that JROA does have the right of it, which is that the unwritten Tenet is to debate one aspect of a theory at a time.
For example- one could pose the question "If the Earth is flat are we looking at the bottom of the earth". Upon reflection that is a poor question because it assumes Flat Earth theorists have coalesced around the belief that all celestial bodies are flat. However a bit of research would show that this is not the case. So better put would be a question such as "Are celestial bodies flat or round, and please provide an explanation of their movements."

With regards to the sun running out of fuel- it is estimated that, based on its size (32 miles in diameter) and the amount helium that is left that the sun has about 924,456 years before it runs out of fuel so you have no worries.

With regards to the moon- luna is a self illuminating sphere. Observation show us that most moving celestial bodies are spheres, as is the sun and most of the moving bodies inhabiting the celestial spheres.

With regards to tectonic theory is is very simple (on a Flat Earth)- Outgoing plates subduct and are recycled at the ice wall.  The edges of the earth keep all the magma inside. On occasion when the magma pressure is to great then we get a fissure or volcanic activity where the plane of the earth is it most weak.

Evolution
With regards to evolution most scientist agree that life spontaneously occurring on life is well nigh statistically impossible. This is not "Creation Scientists" I am speaking of but respected biologists and evolutionists. The models and statistical changes are close to zero for this to occur even given the 4 billion year old earth (a number I dispute).  Just to clarify I am an evolutionist who also believes in a Supreme Being and Creator.

Here is a most interesting link to this http://www.panspermia-theory.com

Mind you I am not a supporter of Pan Spermia I am just pointing out that scientists and statisticians, using current  models, have come to the realization that chances spontaneous occurrence of life on Earth are less than Zero.

As for me I cannot accept the theory that life on earth arrived on the back of a meteor from Mars some 4 billion years ago. This solution begs the question- if it did not arise here, then where did it arise from?

In summary if you think the round earth supplies some convenient answer to how life arrived or the mechanism that move it towards evolution you are mistaken.

You have made a worthy first post. But please learn from it. Please attempt to limit yourself to one aspect of the theory to be questioned or debated.
Thank you for providing some explanation of the concepts. However, you still failed to fulfill my request to provide me with something concrete and verifiable in an analytical/ statistical/ scientific/ mathematical perspective.  It's okay though, I figured out how I will solve this matter once and for all.
“Advances are made by answering questions. Discoveries are made by questioning answers.”
-Bernhard Haisch, Astrophysicist