A question for Flat Earth Theorists

I was perusing my notes from Simplicus' famous commentary on Aristotle's  "Physica Auscultation" last eve and was struck by this passage whereby Aristotle quotes Achelaus on the subject of the shape of the earth:

"Non ego , quod ad solis aspectum definito tempore sollicite in omni loco . Ex quo potest accipi quod observatio est pronus in terram , ut dicitur. Sed altius a terra concava concavum utiliora ut Sol in medio ponere observari tempora diversa".

My translation:
"The setting of the the sun appears at specific moment of time to do differs depending on the place of the observer . From this it can be understood that the observance of the differences in the sun setting and rising, so that it is said can tbe explained by the earth being not flat but concavity causing these observations of changes in the time sun setting and rising."

Aristotle's following commentary seems to give his support to a concave earth (a plane but tending towards a central concavity).

I am interested in the thinking of Flat Theorist's regarding the earth being concave to some degree.

I'm pretty sure this would make the horizon look very different than it does right now.

I'll have to review that myself, albeit my latin is a bit rusty.

I know Voliva talked about various different maps like this as evidenced by his Zion, IL map.

I just came across a map in a separate thread of the earth as a "square" along the border. It appears as thought there was some concavity toward a perimeter near the equator? At which point the geometry shifts to a convex shape with the central point being the geographic NP. I'm not sure that this fits within the spectrum of potential "flat earth" geometry, but it certainly lies outside the realm of the globe earth.

I'll have to review that myself, albeit my latin is a bit rusty.

I know Voliva talked about various different maps like this as evidenced by his Zion, IL map.

I would be most interested in your thoughts and your own translation. The real issue with these works is that we are reading a commentary written by a Greek on a work by another Greek natural philosopher who in turn, is quoting yet another t great archaic . And I do not even reference the fact that the work referenced was translated into Latin at some point.

My fantasy, if God were given to indulging in such flights, would be to be transported for one week to the Great Library of Alexandria whereby I could study the works we but catch on a glimpse of, in passing referenced in the few complete works we have. To quote St. Paul and apply it to our knowledge of Greek Natural Philosophers:  "We but see through a mirror dimly."

I'm pretty sure this would make the horizon look very different than it does right now.

How so?- I think the difference in appearance would depend on the change in elevation due to the concavity of the earth (the absolute value).

Quote from: John Davis on March 22, 2016, 12:23:01 PM

I'll have to review that myself, albeit my latin is a bit rusty.

I know Voliva talked about various different maps like this as evidenced by his Zion, IL map.

I would be most interested in your thoughts and your own translation. The real issue with these works is that we are reading a commentary written by a Greek on a work by another Greek natural philosopher who in turn, is quoting yet another t great archaic . And I do not even reference the fact that the work referenced was translated into Latin at some point.

I'd love to share when I get the time to study. Its been quite the whirlwind of interviews as well as other administrative functions for the FES lately.

One thing that is of interest is that Aristotle and Plato may be in on the conspiracy, if there is one and if it is ancient. I first noticed this when I looked at Causarum Cognitio (School of Athens.) We see several clues that this may have been the birthplace of the conspiracy. Ignoring its placement in the Vatican which I had the pleasure of seeing, you also note that one hand is flat - like the earth. The other points to the heavens. The topic of discussion? Well they are holding a book on ethics and a treatise on the earth. The ethics of the earth? No no. Much more likely is the ethics of lying about the Earth.

Furthermore you can see others in the room immortalized - some playing with globes, others with their own little hints.

My fantasy, if God were given to indulging in such flights, would be to be transported for one week to the Great Library of Alexandria whereby I could study the works we but catch on a glimpse of, in passing referenced in the few complete works we have. To quote St. Paul and apply it to our knowledge of Greek Natural Philosophers:  "We but see through a mirror dimly."

Indeed. That would be quite the excursion!

Quote from: palmerito0 on March 22, 2016, 12:06:38 PM

I'm pretty sure this would make the horizon look very different than it does right now.

How so?- I think the difference in appearance would depend on the change in elevation due to the concavity of the earth (the absolute value).

Well, things that would normally be below the horizon would be above it due to the curve. This would be especially visible in places closer to supposed edge.

Not only that, this wouldn't work with UA as those out towards the edges would see themselves being pulled sideways.

I just came across a map in a separate thread of the earth as a "square" along the border. It appears as thought there was some concavity toward a perimeter near the equator? At which point the geometry shifts to a convex shape with the central point being the geographic NP. I'm not sure that this fits within the spectrum of potential "flat earth" geometry, but it certainly lies outside the realm of the globe earth.

I read somewhere (and now I shall have to determine the source but I think it was a commentary on the writings of Timaeus) that the Egyptians pictured the earth as being flat and square. The pyramids, it is said, represent earth and the transition to heaven or the celestial sphere at the top. However I cannot recollect where I read this at the moment.

I read somewhere (and now I shall have to determine the source but I think it was a commentary on the writings of Timaeus) that the Egyptians pictured the earth as being flat and square. The pyramids, it is said, represent earth and the transition to heaven or the celestial sphere at the top. However I cannot recollect where I read this at the moment.

No, Ptolemy  (Egyptian)  knew the earth was a sphere, he just placed it at the center, rather than the sun.  Eratosthenes,  the chief librarian at the library in Alexandria, not only knew the earth to be a globe, but measured the radius in a famous experiment.   The fact that the earth was a globe was common knowledge.

It's a pity the library at Alexandria never survived.

There were several egyptian worldviews over the years. One was indeed a flat earth with a dome. I have put a shot of it on my twitter account @johnericdavis

It's a pity the library at Alexandria never survived.

This is indeed a disaster almost without equivalence, since, in the world of academics.

The very odd thing about our knowledge of the Archaics is that most Latin Versions of their works are translations From Arabic, whom, it is theorized, translated them from the original Greek. It is sad how most of the works of the archaics we know only from commentaries on their works, which although we know the names of such, we do not possess the actual works in their entirety.

It would be as if we only knew of Gibbons "Decline and Fall of the Roman Empire" from four or five literary reviews completed 100 years after the publication of this work!

My fantasy, if God were given to indulging in such flights, would be to be transported for one week to the Great Library of Alexandria [/i]."

In my fantasy I would be sent back 25,000 years.

I could sit around the fire and explain eclipses
and tell them where babies come from.



Then they would kill me.
That is not part of the fantasy.   

Quote from: Sir Richard on March 22, 2016, 12:29:32 PM

My fantasy, if God were given to indulging in such flights, would be to be transported for one week to the Great Library of Alexandria [/i]."

In my fantasy I would be sent back 25,000 years.

I could sit around the fire and explain eclipses
and tell them where babies come from.



Then they would kill me.
That is not part of the fantasy.   

Neanderthal or Cro-Magnon?

No, Ptolemy  (Egyptian)  knew the earth was a sphere,

He was Greek, really.  The Ptolemy name is Macedonian and he wrote in Greek and lived under Roman rule - I suppose Greco-Egyptian is the most accurate.

Quote from: Rayzor on March 23, 2016, 06:42:38 AM

No, Ptolemy  (Egyptian)  knew the earth was a sphere,

He was Greek, really.  The Ptolemy name is Macedonian and he wrote in Greek and lived under Roman rule - I suppose Greco-Egyptian is the most accurate.

Born in Alexandria,  Egypt.  So Egyptian by birth,  but I'd settle for Greco-Egyptian.