Can nobody explain satellites?

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Blue_Moon

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Can nobody explain satellites?
« on: March 13, 2016, 11:35:49 AM »
Do FEers have a good explanation for the motions of satellites?  Of course there's a good reason in RE, but satellites are something FE seems to avoid.  If you tried to overlay the paths of satellites onto your FE azimuthal projection, you would have a mess.  Highly elliptical orbits would be especially difficult to explain, with their peaks and troughs.  Has anyone ever tried this?  Keep in mind that you can tell the height of a satellite through parallax. 
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racionador

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Re: Can nobody explain satellites?
« Reply #1 on: March 13, 2016, 11:41:17 AM »
they just dont believe in satellites, its all ""part of conspiracy"".

any radio, gps whatever signal is by some hidden tower system

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Blue_Moon

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Re: Can nobody explain satellites?
« Reply #2 on: March 13, 2016, 11:44:52 AM »
they just dont believe in satellites, its all ""part of conspiracy"".

any radio, gps whatever signal is by some hidden tower system
I'm talking about satellites we can see and trace.  But whatever explanation they come up with should explain the signals we receive. 
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ER22

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Re: Can nobody explain satellites?
« Reply #3 on: March 13, 2016, 01:49:04 PM »
they just dont believe in satellites, its all ""part of conspiracy"".

any radio, gps whatever signal is by some hidden tower system
I'm talking about satellites we can see and trace.  But whatever explanation they come up with should explain the signals we receive.


I agree with rac, the FE crowd insists satellites don't exist. International space station and space travel as well.
As for things you can "see and trace" it's all faked.
But teleportation from one side of the FE to the other is completely acceptable.
Show me a Flat Earth map that works.

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Slemon

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Re: Can nobody explain satellites?
« Reply #4 on: March 13, 2016, 04:16:54 PM »
Manmade satellites are explained as stratellites: in-atmosphere equivalents, balloons or planes etc. Or their existence is denied. Depends on the FEer.
Parallax is trickier to manage under FET: all the other distances are different.
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Sir Richard

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Re: Can nobody explain satellites?
« Reply #5 on: March 13, 2016, 05:14:34 PM »
Satellites exist as do high altitude balloons. So what. They just don't orbit some fictional spinning globe. The sun is also real- just not the way you think it is. Your question is pedantic and probably pejorative. Hard
"Ideas are more powerful than guns. We would not let our enemies have guns, why should we let them have ideas?"  J Stalin

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Re: Can nobody explain satellites?
« Reply #6 on: March 14, 2016, 12:37:17 AM »
Satellites exist as do high altitude balloons. So what. They just don't orbit some fictional spinning globe. The sun is also real- just not the way you think it is. Your question is pedantic and probably pejorative. Hard

Satellites exist as do high altitude balloons. So what. They just don't orbit some fictional spinning globe. The sun is also real- just not the way you think it is. Your question is pedantic and probably pejorative. Hard

Why is his question "pedantic?" Before using words outside of your intellectual capabilities you might want to consult a dictionary, or better yet use terminology to better state your argument.

"Satellites exist as to high altitude balloons" is based on what proof or what working model?  You might want to cite where you pulled this out from? Secondly you might want to explain how this functions on your flat disk.  By the way, you also might want to consult with the rest of your paranoid colleagues since they all seem to claim that satellites DO NOT exist and are all faked.  Of course we cannot take ANYTHING you or your colleague say because it's all easily refuted, not to mention that your theories incoherent.  You spout Latin as if to demonstrate your quasi intellect yet cannot reasonably explain let alone prove any of your theories; well because they are un-provable.  Before you and your FE friends start spouting nonsense you might at least want to codify what exactly you all believe in because each time we get in to debates the replies become ad hoc and random.  Let's face it, none of you really know what you're talking about but in your staunch defense of your FE belief you'll come up with just about any theory no matter how bizarre to defend it.

If you want us to take you seriously, then act seriously.

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Blue_Moon

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Re: Can nobody explain satellites?
« Reply #7 on: March 14, 2016, 08:19:51 AM »
Satellites exist as do high altitude balloons. So what. They just don't orbit some fictional spinning globe. The sun is also real- just not the way you think it is. Your question is pedantic and probably pejorative. Hard
Well, your answer is parsimonious, pretentious, and predictable (since you are so fond of large words that start with P).  Of course you don't address the paths that they take, even though it's right there in the OP. 

How are they able to follow these paths in a manner that exactly follows what we would expect in an orbit?  Don't forget that there are:
  • Polar orbits
  • Molniya orbits
  • Geosynchronous and Geostationary orbits
  • Semi-synchronous orbits
  • Tundra orbits
  • Sun-synchronous polar orbits
among others, and you can see that Jupiter's moons also follow orbits with a simple pair of binoculars. 
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Sir Richard

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Re: Can nobody explain satellites?
« Reply #8 on: March 14, 2016, 01:34:28 PM »
Satellites exist as do high altitude balloons. So what. They just don't orbit some fictional spinning globe. The sun is also real- just not the way you think it is. Your question is pedantic and probably pejorative. Hard

Satellites exist as do high altitude balloons. So what. They just don't orbit some fictional spinning globe. The sun is also real- just not the way you think it is. Your question is pedantic and probably pejorative. Hard

Why is his question "pedantic?" Before using words outside of your intellectual capabilities you might want to consult a dictionary, or better yet use terminology to better state your argument.

"Satellites exist as to high altitude balloons" is based on what proof or what working model?  You might want to cite where you pulled this out from? Secondly you might want to explain how this functions on your flat disk.  By the way, you also might want to consult with the rest of your paranoid colleagues since they all seem to claim that satellites DO NOT exist and are all faked.  Of course we cannot take ANYTHING you or your colleague say because it's all easily refuted, not to mention that your theories incoherent.  You spout Latin as if to demonstrate your quasi intellect yet cannot reasonably explain let alone prove any of your theories; well because they are un-provable.  Before you and your FE friends start spouting nonsense you might at least want to codify what exactly you all believe in because each time we get in to debates the replies become ad hoc and random.  Let's face it, none of you really know what you're talking about but in your staunch defense of your FE belief you'll come up with just about any theory no matter how bizarre to defend it.

If you want us to take you seriously, then act seriously.
I suggest before you begin your ad hominem attacks you might try READING CAREFULLY before replying. My post started with "Satellites exist as DO high altitude balloons" not "to high altitude balloons". Those two statements mean differing things.

The existence of satellites is of no more import to the Flat Earth Theory than the moving of celestial objects.  Once a satellite is launched via a delivery system through the atmosphere it encounters aether, or more precisely the ethereal wind (see Isaac Newton- one of the "rounder's favorites). The aetherial wind moves in a rotational manner (see my post on Coriolis Effect Exists But Not In The Way Rounders Think it Does).

I could start a thread, I suppose that was entitled "Satellites about the earth- But Not The Way Rounders Think They Do"

As the Aether rushes by the earth objects that it intersects with are also pulled along the path taking them around the disc. We also have to remember that the disc (or earth) is also moving upward (along with the aether and the atmosphere) at a constant acceleration of 32/f/s/s. The objects (in this case satellites) that interact with the ethereal wind then travel lower, but along the edge of the Aetheric "whirl pool). The satellites experience the same "eye wash" effect as the sun and the moon- but with light reflected by such and with such low luminosity (compared to those latter two objects) that the "satellite Rise and Setting are not as noticeable.

It seems to me that many "rounders" are a bit touchy - when we explain our theories the posts seem to be extremely emotional and almost paranoid. I certainly can understand that - my own view is that people who explode and enter into name calling are probably beginning to realize the pack of lies about the universe and the construction of such that they have been fed. It is understandable that such a reaction would result in emotional responses like this one. It must be difficult when one finally begins glimpsing the TRUTH through the "veil of lies"
"Ideas are more powerful than guns. We would not let our enemies have guns, why should we let them have ideas?"  J Stalin

"It is not the people that vote that count it is the people that count the votes" J Stalin

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palmerito0

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Re: Can nobody explain satellites?
« Reply #9 on: March 14, 2016, 01:47:07 PM »
I suggest before you begin your ad hominem attacks you might try READING CAREFULLY before replying. My post started with "Satellites exist as DO high altitude balloons" not "to high altitude balloons". Those two statements mean differing things.

The existence of satellites is of no more import to the Flat Earth Theory than the moving of celestial objects.  Once a satellite is launched via a delivery system through the atmosphere it encounters aether, or more precisely the ethereal wind (see Isaac Newton- one of the "rounder's favorites). The aetherial wind moves in a rotational manner (see my post on Coriolis Effect Exists But Not In The Way Rounders Think it Does).

I could start a thread, I suppose that was entitled "Satellites about the earth- But Not The Way Rounders Think They Do"

As the Aether rushes by the earth objects that it intersects with are also pulled along the path taking them around the disc. We also have to remember that the disc (or earth) is also moving upward (along with the aether and the atmosphere) at a constant acceleration of 32/f/s/s. The objects (in this case satellites) that interact with the ethereal wind then travel lower, but along the edge of the Aetheric "whirl pool). The satellites experience the same "eye wash" effect as the sun and the moon- but with light reflected by such and with such low luminosity (compared to those latter two objects) that the "satellite Rise and Setting are not as noticeable.

If you love "parsimonious" theories so much, why do you have to bring in the aether when the satellites could easily be explained as orbiting around the earth and following this equation:
[img=https://upload.wikimedia.org/math/7/8/b/78b2f1b722598fa3642226d81d8478f0.png]

I thought that the upwards acceleration thing had been debunked. After a year, the Earth would surpass the speed of light, and this is not possible.

Finally, what the hell is the "Aetheric whirlpool"? Your theories make no sense right now. Please clarify your ideas.

It seems to me that many "rounders" are a bit touchy - when we explain our theories the posts seem to be extremely emotional and almost paranoid. I certainly can understand that - my own view is that people who explode and enter into name calling are probably beginning to realize the pack of lies about the universe and the construction of such that they have been fed. It is understandable that such a reaction would result in emotional responses like this one. It must be difficult when one finally begins glimpsing the TRUTH through the "veil of lies"

We can seem "touchy" at times because your extreme idiocy surprises us a lot. I think you should see the TRUTH through the "veil of lies" the FE crowd has made. They use bad math, overly complicated theories, and mounds of poorly made videos to "veil" how stupid their theory is.
Heiwa on the impossibility of space travel:

There are no toilets up there and sex is also a problem, just to mention a few difficulties.

WHEEEEEEEEEEE

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Sir Richard

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Re: Can nobody explain satellites?
« Reply #10 on: March 14, 2016, 02:06:44 PM »
I suggest before you begin your ad hominem attacks you might try READING CAREFULLY before replying. My post started with "Satellites exist as DO high altitude balloons" not "to high altitude balloons". Those two statements mean differing things.

The existence of satellites is of no more import to the Flat Earth Theory than the moving of celestial objects.  Once a satellite is launched via a delivery system through the atmosphere it encounters aether, or more precisely the ethereal wind (see Isaac Newton- one of the "rounder's favorites). The aetherial wind moves in a rotational manner (see my post on Coriolis Effect Exists But Not In The Way Rounders Think it Does).

I could start a thread, I suppose that was entitled "Satellites about the earth- But Not The Way Rounders Think They Do"

As the Aether rushes by the earth objects that it intersects with are also pulled along the path taking them around the disc. We also have to remember that the disc (or earth) is also moving upward (along with the aether and the atmosphere) at a constant acceleration of 32/f/s/s. The objects (in this case satellites) that interact with the ethereal wind then travel lower, but along the edge of the Aetheric "whirl pool). The satellites experience the same "eye wash" effect as the sun and the moon- but with light reflected by such and with such low luminosity (compared to those latter two objects) that the "satellite Rise and Setting are not as noticeable.

If you love "parsimonious" theories so much, why do you have to bring in the aether when the satellites could easily be explained as orbiting around the earth and following this equation:
[img=https://upload.wikimedia.org/math/7/8/b/78b2f1b722598fa3642226d81d8478f0.png]

I thought that the upwards acceleration thing had been debunked. After a year, the Earth would surpass the speed of light, and this is not possible.

Finally, what the hell is the "Aetheric whirlpool"? Your theories make no sense right now. Please clarify your ideas.

It seems to me that many "rounders" are a bit touchy - when we explain our theories the posts seem to be extremely emotional and almost paranoid. I certainly can understand that - my own view is that people who explode and enter into name calling are probably beginning to realize the pack of lies about the universe and the construction of such that they have been fed. It is understandable that such a reaction would result in emotional responses like this one. It must be difficult when one finally begins glimpsing the TRUTH through the "veil of lies"

We can seem "touchy" at times because your extreme idiocy surprises us a lot. I think you should see the TRUTH through the "veil of lies" the FE crowd has made. They use bad math, overly complicated theories, and mounds of poorly made videos to "veil" how stupid their theory is.

Really- complicated is the insanely complex theories around planetary motions, etc etc etc.  Newton (yep the believer in "Majick" his spelling btw) pretty much figured out that Aether and the aetheric wind had to exist for celestial body movement to occur.

With regards to aetheric wind and whirlpool are very basic Flat Earth Tenets and can be explored more fully on the resource portion of the Website. I can also recommend some top notch books and sites that provide detailed scientific theories and experiments that conclusive show that the aetheric wind and not some invisible "gravitational attraction" account for much of what we see overhead.
But here is a link- but if you want book titles etc I can provide them.  I would suggest the following
 https://wiki.tfes.org/Aetheric_Whirlpool

Google:  African Lactantius an excellent early natural philosopher
Andrew Dickinson White (founder of Cornell University) also wrote extensively on the subject
Rowbotham also provides insights into idea.


"Ideas are more powerful than guns. We would not let our enemies have guns, why should we let them have ideas?"  J Stalin

"It is not the people that vote that count it is the people that count the votes" J Stalin

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palmerito0

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Re: Can nobody explain satellites?
« Reply #11 on: March 14, 2016, 02:13:31 PM »
Really- complicated is the insanely complex theories around planetary motions, etc etc etc.  Newton (yep the believer in "Majick" his spelling btw) pretty much figured out that Aether and the aetheric wind had to exist for celestial body movement to occur.

With regards to aetheric wind and whirlpool are very basic Flat Earth Tenets and can be explored more fully on the resource portion of the Website. I can also recommend some top notch books and sites that provide detailed scientific theories and experiments that conclusive show that the aetheric wind and not some invisible "gravitational attraction" account for much of what we see overhead.
But here is a link- but if you want book titles etc I can provide them.  I would suggest the following
 https://wiki.tfes.org/Aetheric_Whirlpool

Google:  African Lactantius an excellent early natural philosopher
Andrew Dickinson White (founder of Cornell University) also wrote extensively on the subject
Rowbotham also provides insights into idea.

The wiki page you linked provides basically no information. Please give me some other source.
Heiwa on the impossibility of space travel:

There are no toilets up there and sex is also a problem, just to mention a few difficulties.

WHEEEEEEEEEEE

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Blue_Moon

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Re: Can nobody explain satellites?
« Reply #12 on: March 14, 2016, 02:23:51 PM »
I suggest before you begin your ad hominem attacks you might try READING CAREFULLY before replying. My post started with "Satellites exist as DO high altitude balloons" not "to high altitude balloons". Those two statements mean differing things.

The existence of satellites is of no more import to the Flat Earth Theory than the moving of celestial objects.  Once a satellite is launched via a delivery system through the atmosphere it encounters aether, or more precisely the ethereal wind (see Isaac Newton- one of the "rounder's favorites). The aetherial wind moves in a rotational manner (see my post on Coriolis Effect Exists But Not In The Way Rounders Think it Does).

I could start a thread, I suppose that was entitled "Satellites about the earth- But Not The Way Rounders Think They Do"

As the Aether rushes by the earth objects that it intersects with are also pulled along the path taking them around the disc. We also have to remember that the disc (or earth) is also moving upward (along with the aether and the atmosphere) at a constant acceleration of 32/f/s/s. The objects (in this case satellites) that interact with the ethereal wind then travel lower, but along the edge of the Aetheric "whirl pool). The satellites experience the same "eye wash" effect as the sun and the moon- but with light reflected by such and with such low luminosity (compared to those latter two objects) that the "satellite Rise and Setting are not as noticeable.

It seems to me that many "rounders" are a bit touchy - when we explain our theories the posts seem to be extremely emotional and almost paranoid. I certainly can understand that - my own view is that people who explode and enter into name calling are probably beginning to realize the pack of lies about the universe and the construction of such that they have been fed. It is understandable that such a reaction would result in emotional responses like this one. It must be difficult when one finally begins glimpsing the TRUTH through the "veil of lies"
We "explode" because you have the gall to call our greatest achievements a "veil of lies," insult the integrity and intelligence of the people who accomplish them, and when you're faced with a real challenge to your own theory, you hide behind "aether," "celestial gravitation," and more bullshit.  Your "theory" has no self-consistency at all, and is really nothing more than vain, uninformed speculation. 

Did you not see my list of other satellite orbits?  Take polar orbits for example.  If they were travelling over a flat earth, they would have to teleport to the other end, every single orbit.  Now take Molniya orbits.  They are highly elliptical, semi-synchronous orbits.  They keep the satellite over a given area for a longer period.  Geostationary orbits are motionless over the equator, and geosynchronous orbits follow analemmas relative to the surface.  Each of these orbits is carefully chosen for the purpose at hand, and their altitude and velocity can be verified via parallax.  Do you seriously think that they would rely on some "aetheric whirlpool" bullshit?  Of course not!  Their paths can only be explained by a spherical earth and gravity. 

Furthermore, it is you doing the ad hominem attacks and straw men attacks, specifically on Newton.  Newton had no way to know about the nature of gravity.  We just credit him for the notion of gravity, and the laws of motion.  He's not a god, and we don't care about his personal life or opinions. 

Also, fuck you for calling NASA a "veil of lies," and fuck you in general. 
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Sir Richard

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Re: Can nobody explain satellites?
« Reply #13 on: March 14, 2016, 02:32:44 PM »
I suggest before you begin your ad hominem attacks you might try READING CAREFULLY before replying. My post started with "Satellites exist as DO high altitude balloons" not "to high altitude balloons". Those two statements mean differing things.

The existence of satellites is of no more import to the Flat Earth Theory than the moving of celestial objects.  Once a satellite is launched via a delivery system through the atmosphere it encounters aether, or more precisely the ethereal wind (see Isaac Newton- one of the "rounder's favorites). The aetherial wind moves in a rotational manner (see my post on Coriolis Effect Exists But Not In The Way Rounders Think it Does).

I could start a thread, I suppose that was entitled "Satellites about the earth- But Not The Way Rounders Think They Do"

As the Aether rushes by the earth objects that it intersects with are also pulled along the path taking them around the disc. We also have to remember that the disc (or earth) is also moving upward (along with the aether and the atmosphere) at a constant acceleration of 32/f/s/s. The objects (in this case satellites) that interact with the ethereal wind then travel lower, but along the edge of the Aetheric "whirl pool). The satellites experience the same "eye wash" effect as the sun and the moon- but with light reflected by such and with such low luminosity (compared to those latter two objects) that the "satellite Rise and Setting are not as noticeable.

It seems to me that many "rounders" are a bit touchy - when we explain our theories the posts seem to be extremely emotional and almost paranoid. I certainly can understand that - my own view is that people who explode and enter into name calling are probably beginning to realize the pack of lies about the universe and the construction of such that they have been fed. It is understandable that such a reaction would result in emotional responses like this one. It must be difficult when one finally begins glimpsing the TRUTH through the "veil of lies"
We "explode" because you have the gall to call our greatest achievements a "veil of lies," insult the integrity and intelligence of the people who accomplish them, and when you're faced with a real challenge to your own theory, you hide behind "aether," "celestial gravitation," and more bullshit.  Your "theory" has no self-consistency at all, and is really nothing more than vain, uninformed speculation. 

Did you not see my list of other satellite orbits?  Take polar orbits for example.  If they were travelling over a flat earth, they would have to teleport to the other end, every single orbit.  Now take Molniya orbits.  They are highly elliptical, semi-synchronous orbits.  They keep the satellite over a given area for a longer period.  Geostationary orbits are motionless over the equator, and geosynchronous orbits follow analemmas relative to the surface.  Each of these orbits is carefully chosen for the purpose at hand, and their altitude and velocity can be verified via parallax.  Do you seriously think that they would rely on some "aetheric whirlpool" bullshit?  Of course not!  Their paths can only be explained by a spherical earth and gravity. 

Furthermore, it is you doing the ad hominem attacks and straw men attacks, specifically on Newton.  Newton had no way to know about the nature of gravity.  We just credit him for the notion of gravity, and the laws of motion.  He's not a god, and we don't care about his personal life or opinions. 

Also, fuck you for calling NASA a "veil of lies," and fuck you in general.

As I said earlier- you rounders are are bit touch and emotional. That strikes me as not being scientific.  Lets think this through- YOU are posting on what is clearly a Flat Earth Forum.  I am a FE you are a ROUNDER. I could understand you insulting me and telling me to try a physically impossible sex act if I were posting on, say, A NASA site. But I am not. So I am trying to understand the anger when someone posts something CONTRARY to ROUNDER beliefs on a website DEVOTED to Flat Earth Theories. Yet the ones who explode emotionally and insult people and throw around curse words are the rounders.  Does that strike you as IRONIC and funny - or are you in possession of the qualities, so admired when found in humans, of that of introspection and self awareness?

As I said earlier- I find it "funny" (and I mean "haha" funny and also "strange" funny) that rounders get bent out of shape whilst posting on a flat earth board.  Seriously I would be interested in a thread or a post where a FE theorist called people names and cursed at them (and I am not talking about the innocent jibes but rather calling people "Stupid", Ignorant, or telling the to go F8ck themselves). I am serious - the one who loses his cool and rants is probably on the short end of the logic stick.

As for Newton I think he had the right of it. I think he understood aether and his works have been buried and suppressed.
« Last Edit: March 14, 2016, 02:37:22 PM by Sir Richard »
"Ideas are more powerful than guns. We would not let our enemies have guns, why should we let them have ideas?"  J Stalin

"It is not the people that vote that count it is the people that count the votes" J Stalin

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Sir Richard

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Re: Can nobody explain satellites?
« Reply #14 on: March 14, 2016, 02:38:45 PM »
Really- complicated is the insanely complex theories around planetary motions, etc etc etc.  Newton (yep the believer in "Majick" his spelling btw) pretty much figured out that Aether and the aetheric wind had to exist for celestial body movement to occur.

With regards to aetheric wind and whirlpool are very basic Flat Earth Tenets and can be explored more fully on the resource portion of the Website. I can also recommend some top notch books and sites that provide detailed scientific theories and experiments that conclusive show that the aetheric wind and not some invisible "gravitational attraction" account for much of what we see overhead.
But here is a link- but if you want book titles etc I can provide them.  I would suggest the following
 https://wiki.tfes.org/Aetheric_Whirlpool

Google:  African Lactantius an excellent early natural philosopher
Andrew Dickinson White (founder of Cornell University) also wrote extensively on the subject
Rowbotham also provides insights into idea.

The wiki page you linked provides basically no information. Please give me some other source.
I must go now - it is getting very late. Try googling the names of the authors I listed. When I have time, in the morn, I will provide you with a list of books or sites on the subject.
Good Night! :)
"Ideas are more powerful than guns. We would not let our enemies have guns, why should we let them have ideas?"  J Stalin

"It is not the people that vote that count it is the people that count the votes" J Stalin

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Slemon

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Re: Can nobody explain satellites?
« Reply #15 on: March 14, 2016, 02:49:04 PM »
Really- complicated is the insanely complex theories around planetary motions, etc etc etc.
I'm not sure you understand what 'complex' means. The theories themselves are actually relatively simple: they're derived from just a handful of facts. Those facts are simple, but connections can be spotted and definitions made to develop increasingly advanced equations. Said facts remain the same, however.
If you're interested in a mathematical example, group theory stands out. It's a fun one, and it's little more than a few simple rules made to define what a group is (and, to extend, what a ring is, and what a space is, and what an algebra is) and then a few special cases are pointed out, and you can develop really quite spectacular results: all the way to representation theory (used in quantum theory among so many others), for one example. Complicated? Sure, technically (there's a complete classification of all finite simple groups out there, spanning ten thousand pages), but the basic definitions it arises from are perfectly simple, and everything follows necessarily.
The rules governing, say, binary code are also pretty simple. Off and on: that's it. You can still develop pretty damn complex stuff from it, but that doesn't make computers a fantasy.

Just because you don't understand something doesn't make it false.
We all know deep in our hearts that Jane is the last face we'll see before we're choked to death!

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Blue_Moon

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Re: Can nobody explain satellites?
« Reply #16 on: March 14, 2016, 03:05:52 PM »
I suggest before you begin your ad hominem attacks you might try READING CAREFULLY before replying. My post started with "Satellites exist as DO high altitude balloons" not "to high altitude balloons". Those two statements mean differing things.

The existence of satellites is of no more import to the Flat Earth Theory than the moving of celestial objects.  Once a satellite is launched via a delivery system through the atmosphere it encounters aether, or more precisely the ethereal wind (see Isaac Newton- one of the "rounder's favorites). The aetherial wind moves in a rotational manner (see my post on Coriolis Effect Exists But Not In The Way Rounders Think it Does).

I could start a thread, I suppose that was entitled "Satellites about the earth- But Not The Way Rounders Think They Do"

As the Aether rushes by the earth objects that it intersects with are also pulled along the path taking them around the disc. We also have to remember that the disc (or earth) is also moving upward (along with the aether and the atmosphere) at a constant acceleration of 32/f/s/s. The objects (in this case satellites) that interact with the ethereal wind then travel lower, but along the edge of the Aetheric "whirl pool). The satellites experience the same "eye wash" effect as the sun and the moon- but with light reflected by such and with such low luminosity (compared to those latter two objects) that the "satellite Rise and Setting are not as noticeable.

It seems to me that many "rounders" are a bit touchy - when we explain our theories the posts seem to be extremely emotional and almost paranoid. I certainly can understand that - my own view is that people who explode and enter into name calling are probably beginning to realize the pack of lies about the universe and the construction of such that they have been fed. It is understandable that such a reaction would result in emotional responses like this one. It must be difficult when one finally begins glimpsing the TRUTH through the "veil of lies"
We "explode" because you have the gall to call our greatest achievements a "veil of lies," insult the integrity and intelligence of the people who accomplish them, and when you're faced with a real challenge to your own theory, you hide behind "aether," "celestial gravitation," and more bullshit.  Your "theory" has no self-consistency at all, and is really nothing more than vain, uninformed speculation. 

Did you not see my list of other satellite orbits?  Take polar orbits for example.  If they were travelling over a flat earth, they would have to teleport to the other end, every single orbit.  Now take Molniya orbits.  They are highly elliptical, semi-synchronous orbits.  They keep the satellite over a given area for a longer period.  Geostationary orbits are motionless over the equator, and geosynchronous orbits follow analemmas relative to the surface.  Each of these orbits is carefully chosen for the purpose at hand, and their altitude and velocity can be verified via parallax.  Do you seriously think that they would rely on some "aetheric whirlpool" bullshit?  Of course not!  Their paths can only be explained by a spherical earth and gravity. 

Furthermore, it is you doing the ad hominem attacks and straw men attacks, specifically on Newton.  Newton had no way to know about the nature of gravity.  We just credit him for the notion of gravity, and the laws of motion.  He's not a god, and we don't care about his personal life or opinions. 

Also, fuck you for calling NASA a "veil of lies," and fuck you in general.

As I said earlier- you rounders are are bit touch and emotional. That strikes me as not being scientific.  Lets think this through- YOU are posting on what is clearly a Flat Earth Forum.  I am a FE you are a ROUNDER. I could understand you insulting me and telling me to try a physically impossible sex act if I were posting on, say, A NASA site. But I am not. So I am trying to understand the anger when someone posts something CONTRARY to ROUNDER beliefs on a website DEVOTED to Flat Earth Theories. Yet the ones who explode emotionally and insult people and throw around curse words are the rounders.  Does that strike you as IRONIC and funny - or are you in possession of the qualities, so admired when found in humans, of that of introspection and self awareness?

As I said earlier- I find it "funny" (and I mean "haha" funny and also "strange" funny) that rounders get bent out of shape whilst posting on a flat earth board.  Seriously I would be interested in a thread or a post where a FE theorist called people names and cursed at them (and I am not talking about the innocent jibes but rather calling people "Stupid", Ignorant, or telling the to go F8ck themselves). I am serious - the one who loses his cool and rants is probably on the short end of the logic stick.

As for Newton I think he had the right of it. I think he understood aether and his works have been buried and suppressed.
I find it "funny" (and I mean "punch my screen in frustration" funny) that you completely ignored the core of my argument, the one I had in bold so you wouldn't miss it, and instead proceeded to try to lecture me on my use of language.  Your arguments have no substance, so you avoid mine completely.  Fuck you for that as well. 
Actually, I generally am pretty restrained with my language, but you need to know that I'm not here to play games.  I'm here to stand for NASA, which has done nothing to deserve your insults. 
Aerospace Engineering Student
NASA Enthusiast
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ItsRoundBitch

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Re: Can nobody explain satellites?
« Reply #17 on: March 14, 2016, 09:44:55 PM »
How to Debunk Flat earth in 3 easy steps -
Step 1:Show photos of the True horizon.
Step 2: ????
Step 3: PROFIT!!1!

we would not have a horizon on a flat earth. we would also be able to see Mt Everest from our back yards on a Flat earth but we cant, so, According to FE People - Use your eyes! Unless what you see goes against us
The earth is round Faggot.

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palmerito0

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Re: Can nobody explain satellites?
« Reply #18 on: March 14, 2016, 10:22:28 PM »
How to Debunk Flat earth in 3 easy steps -
Step 1:Show photos of the True horizon.
Step 2: ????
Step 3: PROFIT!!1!

we would not have a horizon on a flat earth. we would also be able to see Mt Everest from our back yards on a Flat earth but we cant, so, According to FE People - Use your eyes! Unless what you see goes against us

No offense, but can you stop trying to hijack threads like this? Please just make another thread if you want to say something totally off-topic like that.
Heiwa on the impossibility of space travel:

There are no toilets up there and sex is also a problem, just to mention a few difficulties.

WHEEEEEEEEEEE

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TigerWidow

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Re: Can nobody explain satellites?
« Reply #19 on: March 15, 2016, 12:16:39 AM »
Satellites exist as do high altitude balloons. So what. They just don't orbit some fictional spinning globe. The sun is also real- just not the way you think it is. Your question is pedantic and probably pejorative. Hard

This reply doesn't really consist of anything and doesn't address the given justifications to the original assertion. You can reduce this reply down to " I agree satellites are real, and I don't believe the Earth is round".

The justifications presented in the original assertion being:

  • If you tried to overlay the paths of satellites onto your FE azimuthal projection, you would have a mess.
  • Highly elliptical orbits would be especially difficult to explain, with their peaks and troughs.

This claim thus far still stands, as it appears the assertion is valid and the response doesn't really mean anything in relation to the substantive content of the OPs claim.
----------
My post started with "Satellites exist as DO high altitude balloons" not "to high altitude balloons". Those two statements mean differing things.
Ok, but this is a "not even wrong" fallacy, the point has no relation to the original claim. The question is to describe how orbital paths would work in the flat earth azimuthal projection, and to explain [given the justifications described] that the observations could only exist on a round Earth. Not whether there is any relation between high altitude balloons and satellites, or that they are the same thing. So this is a pointless misnomer.

Quote
As the Aether rushes by the earth objects that it intersects with are also pulled along the path taking them around the disc.
Can you prove the existence of Aether? This requires some evidence based, observable, substantive grounding. Without this, any claim to it's effects on any physical system are purely speculative and can't be used to substantiate a rebuttal to the original assertion.

Quote
We also have to remember that the disc (or earth) is also moving upward (along with the aether and the atmosphere) at a constant acceleration of 32/f/s/s.
Can you substantiate this claim? Are there any physical measurements of this, or models that describe this that have shown to be reliable in prediction and testability? (I presume this is an hypothesis challenging the General Relativistic notion of gravity?)

Quote
The objects (in this case satellites) that interact with the ethereal wind then travel lower, but along the edge of the Aetheric "whirl pool.
Again this is an unsubstantiated claim that lacks a credibly asserted backing. An extrapolation built upon an assumption. It can't rationally be accepted as substantive content to your attempted explanation. It's an idea based on a completely unproven hypothesis. Unless there are measurements that show Aether as a real substance and there is some line of science I have not come across that observes and maps it's behavior and effect on physical objects.

Quote
The satellites experience the same "eye wash" effect as the sun and the moon- but with light reflected by such and with such low luminosity (compared to those latter two objects) that the "satellite Rise and Setting are not as noticeable.
Read my previous response: re. Aether. Also please explain the eye wash effect and source which evidence this concept is derived from. Without these substantiations, this is another idea based upon nothing substantive.

In respect to Aether and the claims thereof... Argumentum ex culo my friend.

Quote
Newton (yep the believer in "Majick" his spelling btw) pretty much figured out that Aether and the aetheric wind had to exist for celestial body movement to occur.
This is known as one of his hypotheses to describe the why in gravitational attraction. It's an extremely outdated and old hypothesis. Aether has never been proven to exist and the idea becomes redundant in explaining the why behind gravity, as General Relativity explains the why in concrete, observable, predictive and testable terms, to a complete degree of accuracy.
This is an outdated information fallacy. Simply, using outdated and redundant ideas as cause of a rebuttal. Almost a straw man, but not quite.

Quote
With regards to aetheric wind and whirlpool are very basic Flat Earth Tenets and can be explored more fully on the resource portion of the Website. I can also recommend some top notch books and sites that provide detailed scientific theories and experiments that conclusive show that the aetheric wind and not some invisible "gravitational attraction" account for much of what we see overhead.
But here is a link- but if you want book titles etc I can provide them.  I would suggest the following
 https://wiki.tfes.org/Aetheric_Whirlpool
Please link to these books and sites that provide detailed scientific theories and experiments (two very different things mind you) that conclusively (wow) show that aetheric wind accounts for what we see overhead. - A point though. Isn't the idea of aetherial wind indistinguishable from gravitational attraction? - vis, some invisible force acting on things.
The link you posted as source makes several assertions, yet fails to substantiate any of them with any kind of justification. The description is by definition incomplete. In a claim, you must describe the why and how alongside the is before it can be taken as an actual claim. It fails to do this so cannot be rationally taken as a description of anything beyond an [incomplete] idea. There is no substance wherein one can assess the validity of the assertion. As it stands, it can be taken on faith (which should never be done in cases like this), or discarded. I look forward to this scientific material on the conclusive nature of Aether, though.

Quote
As for Newton I think he had the right of it. I think he understood aether and his works have been buried and suppressed.
You're entitled to that opinion. Though you should know that all of Newton's ideas on Aether are publicly available and can be studied readily and found to be inadequate to describe gravitational attraction against General relativity, which does a much better job. We simply don't need the (unprovable) hypothesis any longer. Do you have any evidence of his work being buried and suppressed, or is it an ideological stance as a means to justify your position?

Having gone through this huge derailment excersize consisting of an impressive catalog of fallacious reasoning (I've literally just been going along and nit picking the faults in the argument on a case by case basis - assumptions, presumptions, leaps of faith, conjecture, incomplete arguments, unbacked claims, formal and informal fallacies). We have come nowhere in addressing the central claim of the thread.

Which is this: Given the Earth is Flat. How do you explain the data expressed in satellite orbital paths in reference to an azimuthal projection. where they only seem to make sense in respect to a spherical earth.

How do you explain, given the Earth is Flat, the specific observed nature of the orbital flight paths in respect to:
  • Polar orbits
  • Molniya orbits
  • Geosynchronous and Geostationary orbits
  • Semi-synchronous orbits
  • Tundra orbits
  • Sun-synchronous polar orbits

The request here is to explain how these two seemingly incompatible concepts can co-exist. You must do this without resorting to vague hypotheses or unproven, ad hoc and outdated ideas as you have done this far. I'm not being rude here, this is an honest remark based on what you've actually been saying in attempting to refute (or otherwise sidestep) the original question.

The Op has made an assertion, and substantiated that assertion with reference to observable phenomena. It is now your job to successfully refute this assertion with a rational counter argument that logically stands. So far you have failed. It would be best to begin somewhere mathematical as this is essentially the nature of the claim.
« Last Edit: March 15, 2016, 12:50:40 AM by TigerWidow »

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Sir Richard

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Re: Can nobody explain satellites?
« Reply #20 on: March 15, 2016, 06:27:38 AM »
Really- complicated is the insanely complex theories around planetary motions, etc etc etc.
I

Just because you don't understand something doesn't make it false.
what makes you think I don't understand it. And Just because I understand something does not make it true
"Ideas are more powerful than guns. We would not let our enemies have guns, why should we let them have ideas?"  J Stalin

"It is not the people that vote that count it is the people that count the votes" J Stalin

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Sir Richard

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Re: Can nobody explain satellites?
« Reply #21 on: March 15, 2016, 06:40:37 AM »
Satellites exist as do high altitude balloons. So what. They just don't orbit some fictional spinning globe. The sun is also real- just not the way you think it is. Your question is pedantic and probably pejorative. Hard

This reply doesn't really consist of anything and doesn't address the given justifications to the original assertion. You can reduce this reply down to " I agree satellites are real, and I don't believe the Earth is round".

The justifications presented in the original assertion being:

  • If you tried to overlay the paths of satellites onto your FE azimuthal projection, you would have a mess.
  • Highly elliptical orbits would be especially difficult to explain, with their peaks and troughs.

This claim thus far still stands, as it appears the assertion is valid and the response doesn't really mean anything in relation to the substantive content of the OPs claim.
----------
My post started with "Satellites exist as DO high altitude balloons" not "to high altitude balloons". Those two statements mean differing things.
Ok, but this is a "not even wrong" fallacy, the point has no relation to the original claim. The question is to describe how orbital paths would work in the flat earth azimuthal projection, and to explain [given the justifications described] that the observations could only exist on a round Earth. Not whether there is any relation between high altitude balloons and satellites, or that they are the same thing. So this is a pointless misnomer.

Quote
As the Aether rushes by the earth objects that it intersects with are also pulled along the path taking them around the disc.
Can you prove the existence of Aether? This requires some evidence based, observable, substantive grounding. Without this, any claim to it's effects on any physical system are purely speculative and can't be used to substantiate a rebuttal to the original assertion.

Quote
We also have to remember that the disc (or earth) is also moving upward (along with the aether and the atmosphere) at a constant acceleration of 32/f/s/s.
Can you substantiate this claim? Are there any physical measurements of this, or models that describe this that have shown to be reliable in prediction and testability? (I presume this is an hypothesis challenging the General Relativistic notion of gravity?)

Quote
The objects (in this case satellites) that interact with the ethereal wind then travel lower, but along the edge of the Aetheric "whirl pool.
Again this is an unsubstantiated claim that lacks a credibly asserted backing. An extrapolation built upon an assumption. It can't rationally be accepted as substantive content to your attempted explanation. It's an idea based on a completely unproven hypothesis. Unless there are measurements that show Aether as a real substance and there is some line of science I have not come across that observes and maps it's behavior and effect on physical objects.

Quote
The satellites experience the same "eye wash" effect as the sun and the moon- but with light reflected by such and with such low luminosity (compared to those latter two objects) that the "satellite Rise and Setting are not as noticeable.
Read my previous response: re. Aether. Also please explain the eye wash effect and source which evidence this concept is derived from. Without these substantiations, this is another idea based upon nothing substantive.

In respect to Aether and the claims thereof... Argumentum ex culo my friend.

Quote
Newton (yep the believer in "Majick" his spelling btw) pretty much figured out that Aether and the aetheric wind had to exist for celestial body movement to occur.
This is known as one of his hypotheses to describe the why in gravitational attraction. It's an extremely outdated and old hypothesis. Aether has never been proven to exist and the idea becomes redundant in explaining the why behind gravity, as General Relativity explains the why in concrete, observable, predictive and testable terms, to a complete degree of accuracy.
This is an outdated information fallacy. Simply, using outdated and redundant ideas as cause of a rebuttal. Almost a straw man, but not quite.

Quote
With regards to aetheric wind and whirlpool are very basic Flat Earth Tenets and can be explored more fully on the resource portion of the Website. I can also recommend some top notch books and sites that provide detailed scientific theories and experiments that conclusive show that the aetheric wind and not some invisible "gravitational attraction" account for much of what we see overhead.
But here is a link- but if you want book titles etc I can provide them.  I would suggest the following
 https://wiki.tfes.org/Aetheric_Whirlpool
Please link to these books and sites that provide detailed scientific theories and experiments (two very different things mind you) that conclusively (wow) show that aetheric wind accounts for what we see overhead. - A point though. Isn't the idea of aetherial wind indistinguishable from gravitational attraction? - vis, some invisible force acting on things.
The link you posted as source makes several assertions, yet fails to substantiate any of them with any kind of justification. The description is by definition incomplete. In a claim, you must describe the why and how alongside the is before it can be taken as an actual claim. It fails to do this so cannot be rationally taken as a description of anything beyond an [incomplete] idea. There is no substance wherein one can assess the validity of the assertion. As it stands, it can be taken on faith (which should never be done in cases like this), or discarded. I look forward to this scientific material on the conclusive nature of Aether, though.

Quote
As for Newton I think he had the right of it. I think he understood aether and his works have been buried and suppressed.
You're entitled to that opinion. Though you should know that all of Newton's ideas on Aether are publicly available and can be studied readily and found to be inadequate to describe gravitational attraction against General relativity, which does a much better job. We simply don't need the (unprovable) hypothesis any longer. Do you have any evidence of his work being buried and suppressed, or is it an ideological stance as a means to justify your position?

Having gone through this huge derailment excersize consisting of an impressive catalog of fallacious reasoning (I've literally just been going along and nit picking the faults in the argument on a case by case basis - assumptions, presumptions, leaps of faith, conjecture, incomplete arguments, unbacked claims, formal and informal fallacies). We have come nowhere in addressing the central claim of the thread.

Which is this: Given the Earth is Flat. How do you explain the data expressed in satellite orbital paths in reference to an azimuthal projection. where they only seem to make sense in respect to a spherical earth.

How do you explain, given the Earth is Flat, the specific observed nature of the orbital flight paths in respect to:
  • Polar orbits
  • Molniya orbits
  • Geosynchronous and Geostationary orbits
  • Semi-synchronous orbits
  • Tundra orbits
  • Sun-synchronous polar orbits

The request here is to explain how these two seemingly incompatible concepts can co-exist. You must do this without resorting to vague hypotheses or unproven, ad hoc and outdated ideas as you have done this far. I'm not being rude here, this is an honest remark based on what you've actually been saying in attempting to refute (or otherwise sidestep) the original question.

The Op has made an assertion, and substantiated that assertion with reference to observable phenomena. It is now your job to successfully refute this assertion with a rational counter argument that logically stands. So far you have failed. It would be best to begin somewhere mathematical as this is essentially the nature of the claim.

First I do NOT accept the "so called" non elliptical orbits of these satellites.  They do not exist because they are not possible with regards to the flat earth.  Each of us start with a pre-supposition. When you start with the "earth is a spinning ball" then these orbits can happen. But if the Earth is a flat disc then they are not possible in the flat earth theory. The affect of the aether both moves the Satellites and keep them in their positions.

We can measure the affect of aether on the motion of celestial objects by measuring their interaction in the same way that "rounders" say that they can measure the affect of gravity.  We know how aether works (and the aetherial whirlpool) by observation.

Aether works like a fluid- which light or other objects must pass through. You ask me about aether- I ask you about gravity- what is it.
You will probably respond it is the distortion of space time continuum caused by the mass of (very large) objects.
I ask "What is space time continuum that is being distorted"
Depending on which "theory" a rounder subscribes to the answer might be "it consists of quanta vibrating on a string"
And I ask what causes this quanta to vibrate?

And you might respond "energy"
and I ask what is the source of this energy
And you don't know and I say "it must be majik"


"Ideas are more powerful than guns. We would not let our enemies have guns, why should we let them have ideas?"  J Stalin

"It is not the people that vote that count it is the people that count the votes" J Stalin

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palmerito0

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Re: Can nobody explain satellites?
« Reply #22 on: March 15, 2016, 06:48:42 AM »
We'd like to see your "observations."
Heiwa on the impossibility of space travel:

There are no toilets up there and sex is also a problem, just to mention a few difficulties.

WHEEEEEEEEEEE

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Slemon

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Re: Can nobody explain satellites?
« Reply #23 on: March 15, 2016, 07:24:56 AM »
what makes you think I don't understand it. And Just because I understand something does not make it true
Your whole argument is "It's complicated so it must be false." Sounds like you don't understand much of anything to be quite honest.
We all know deep in our hearts that Jane is the last face we'll see before we're choked to death!

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Sir Richard

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Re: Can nobody explain satellites?
« Reply #24 on: March 15, 2016, 08:40:57 AM »
what makes you think I don't understand it. And Just because I understand something does not make it true
Your whole argument is "It's complicated so it must be false." Sounds like you don't understand much of anything to be quite honest.

Actually you grabbed onto my comment about complexity which was in response to a post that said the FE theory is  to complicated.  That does not imply that I think complicated is wrong- it simply means that both theories have their complexities.
As far as understanding the arguments- believe me I do. I simply look at them from a differing paradigm. The rounders accept a spinning ball thesis which I reject.

As far as Newtonian Physics, Electricity and Magnetism etc I had more than my fill of such whilst gaining my degree. You misconstrue disagreement as not understanding. I do understand which is why I reject such.
"Ideas are more powerful than guns. We would not let our enemies have guns, why should we let them have ideas?"  J Stalin

"It is not the people that vote that count it is the people that count the votes" J Stalin

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Username

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Re: Can nobody explain satellites?
« Reply #25 on: March 15, 2016, 09:54:19 AM »
Satellites travel in a straight line above the flat earth as dictated by Newton's 3 Laws of Motion.
If you can't argue both sidees, youd unerstand neither

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Blue_Moon

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Re: Can nobody explain satellites?
« Reply #26 on: March 15, 2016, 10:08:28 AM »
what makes you think I don't understand it. And Just because I understand something does not make it true
Your whole argument is "It's complicated so it must be false." Sounds like you don't understand much of anything to be quite honest.

Actually you grabbed onto my comment about complexity which was in response to a post that said the FE theory is  to complicated.  That does not imply that I think complicated is wrong- it simply means that both theories have their complexities.
As far as understanding the arguments- believe me I do. I simply look at them from a differing paradigm. The rounders accept a spinning ball thesis which I reject.

As far as Newtonian Physics, Electricity and Magnetism etc I had more than my fill of such whilst gaining my degree. You misconstrue disagreement as not understanding. I do understand which is why I reject such.
You're trying to complicate the concept of gravity by attaching it to quantum mechanics.  Yes, quantum mechanics is complicated.  No, it does not affect the motion of satellites. 
Think of it as an attractive force between mass that increases with the amount of mass and decreases with distance.  Sure, some of the implications are complicated, but the concept is rigorously defined and tested. 
This is not the case with aether.  There are no studies on the currents of aether, no measurements of its strength, no explanation for how it can carry objects like a fluid without tearing them apart.  Instead, it's just a catch all explanation for why things behave like the earth is round, without having to admit that it is. 
Aerospace Engineering Student
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inquisitive

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Re: Can nobody explain satellites?
« Reply #27 on: March 15, 2016, 10:42:01 AM »
Satellites travel in a straight line above the flat earth as dictated by Newton's 3 Laws of Motion.
what happens when they reach the edge?

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Yendor

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Re: Can nobody explain satellites?
« Reply #28 on: March 15, 2016, 10:50:14 AM »
Really- complicated is the insanely complex theories around planetary motions, etc etc etc.
I'm not sure you understand what 'complex' means. The theories themselves are actually relatively simple: they're derived from just a handful of facts. Those facts are simple, but connections can be spotted and definitions made to develop increasingly advanced equations. Said facts remain the same, however.
If you're interested in a mathematical example, group theory stands out. It's a fun one, and it's little more than a few simple rules made to define what a group is (and, to extend, what a ring is, and what a space is, and what an algebra is) and then a few special cases are pointed out, and you can develop really quite spectacular results: all the way to representation theory (used in quantum theory among so many others), for one example. Complicated? Sure, technically (there's a complete classification of all finite simple groups out there, spanning ten thousand pages), but the basic definitions it arises from are perfectly simple, and everything follows necessarily.
The rules governing, say, binary code are also pretty simple. Off and on: that's it. You can still develop pretty damn complex stuff from it, but that doesn't make computers a fantasy.

Just because you don't understand something doesn't make it false.

Jane, Did you find  Karnaugh maps simple? I seem to remember it not so simple. Of course it could have just been me not studying enough.
"During times of universal deceit, telling the truth becomes a revolutionary act."
                              George Orwell

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Username

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Re: Can nobody explain satellites?
« Reply #29 on: March 15, 2016, 10:53:34 AM »
Jane, Did you find  Karnaugh maps simple? I seem to remember it not so simple. Of course it could have just been me not studying enough.
I found them pretty simple.

Satellites travel in a straight line above the flat earth as dictated by Newton's 3 Laws of Motion.
what happens when they reach the edge?
They don't. The earth's surface is a finite closed space in non-euclidean space.
If you can't argue both sidees, youd unerstand neither