Proof that Sir Isaac Newton was co-opted

Here are excerpts from paper buried by the Royal Society
It is true without lying, certain and most true. That which is Below is like that which is Above and that which is Above is like that which is Below to do the miracles of the Only Thing. And as all things have been and arose from One by the mediation of One, so all things have their birth from this One Thing by adaptation. The Sun is its father; the Moon its mother; the Wind hath carried it in its belly; the Earth is its nurse. The father of all perfection in the whole world is here. Its force or power is entire if it be converted into Earth. Separate the Earth from the Fire, the subtle from the gross, sweetly with great industry. It ascends from the Earth to the Heavens and again it descends to the Earth and receives the force of things superior and inferior. By this means you shall have the glory of the whole world and thereby all obscurity shall fly from you. Its force is above all force, for it vanquishes every subtle thing and penetrates every solid thing. So was the world created. From this are and do come admirable adaptations, whereof the process is here in this. Hence am I called Hermes Trismegistus, having the three parts of the philosophy of the whole world. That which I have said of the operation of the Sun is accomplished and ended.  "Translation of the Emerald Tablet"- From Papers stored by the Royal Society deemed to "controversial" to be published

In plain language- Newton REFUTES the heliocentric theory rather showing the "interdependence" of the Sun, Moon and Earth- and speaks of the wind above and below (this being the aether in the celestial sphere and the quintessence of the terrestrial plane. Thus we see that Newton did not originally intend to support the heliocentric model- but rather simply to explain the physics of the terrestrial plane.

Uh, no you missed the point that Newton was translating the Hermes Trismegistus Emerald Tablet.   It wasn't written by Newton but just translated by him.   As for why the Royal Society don't generally publish alchemical works, I leave you to discover for yourself.

That was the most quickly shot down argument I've seen so far on this forum. Nice job Rayzor.

I'd also like to add that Newton's theories are entirely independent from Newton himself.  We could have misunderstood every single word he ever published and it could be discovered that he supported the concave Earth theory, and none of that would influence modern science.  The theory stands apart from the man and it is supported by evidence, not by reverence for Newton.

In plain language- Newton REFUTES the heliocentric theory rather showing the "interdependence" of the Sun, Moon and Earth- and speaks of the wind above and below (this being the aether in the celestial sphere and the quintessence of the terrestrial plane. Thus we see that Newton did not originally intend to support the heliocentric model- but rather simply to explain the physics of the terrestrial plane.

Pretty much the worst proof I have read on this forum so far. It doesn't even have very much wacky flat earth flair, just brief mentions of quintessence and terrestrial planes. And extremely quickly proved wrong.

I would like to point for being buried by the Royal Society it seems rather easy to find and in several places.

Seems if I wanted to hide something I would not let the information be on the internet.

Doing a search I can find books and websites with the information.

The Cabal really seems not too good with keeping information hidden from the general public.

It should not be long before the truth is revealed, or maybe it has been already. 

What Cabal? Can you please explain who we're dealing with? What exactly is the purpose of creating a round-earth conspiracy and how is that germane to this "cabal" controlling the world's population. 

Here are excerpts from paper buried by the Royal Society
It is true without lying, certain and most true. That which is Below is like that which is Above and that which is Above is like that which is Below to do the miracles of the Only Thing. And as all things have been and arose from One by the mediation of One, so all things have their birth from this One Thing by adaptation. The Sun is its father; the Moon its mother; the Wind hath carried it in its belly; the Earth is its nurse. The father of all perfection in the whole world is here. Its force or power is entire if it be converted into Earth. Separate the Earth from the Fire, the subtle from the gross, sweetly with great industry. It ascends from the Earth to the Heavens and again it descends to the Earth and receives the force of things superior and inferior. By this means you shall have the glory of the whole world and thereby all obscurity shall fly from you. Its force is above all force, for it vanquishes every subtle thing and penetrates every solid thing. So was the world created. From this are and do come admirable adaptations, whereof the process is here in this. Hence am I called Hermes Trismegistus, having the three parts of the philosophy of the whole world. That which I have said of the operation of the Sun is accomplished and ended.  "Translation of the Emerald Tablet"- From Papers stored by the Royal Society deemed to "controversial" to be published

In plain language- Newton REFUTES the heliocentric theory rather showing the "interdependence" of the Sun, Moon and Earth- and speaks of the wind above and below (this being the aether in the celestial sphere and the quintessence of the terrestrial plane. Thus we see that Newton did not originally intend to support the heliocentric model- but rather simply to explain the physics of the terrestrial plane.

I do wish you Round Heads would stop ridiculing Sir Richard. You have it all wrong! This is just a preview of the next installment of his next "Sci Fi Fantasy Novel". He is trying to beat the McCaffery family at their own game.

What Cabal? Can you please explain who we're dealing with? What exactly is the purpose of creating a round-earth conspiracy and how is that germane to this "cabal" controlling the world's population.

The cabal that makes billions selling globes to schools.  If people knew the Earth was flat then schools would just have those pull down maps in front of the class and not buy the globes.

Quote from: odvetnik_irsic on March 13, 2016, 12:24:07 AM

What Cabal? Can you please explain who we're dealing with? What exactly is the purpose of creating a round-earth conspiracy and how is that germane to this "cabal" controlling the world's population.

The cabal that makes billions selling globes to schools.  If people knew the Earth was flat then schools would just have those pull down maps in front of the class and not buy the globes.

The Cabal doesn't just sell globes, they are also heavily invested in the entertainment industry. Movies such as Apollo 13, Willow, and How the Grinch Stole Christmas (basically anything Ron Howard directs) all perpetrate the round earth lie and makes the Cabal millions while influencing the minds of our youth at the same time.

Uh, no you missed the point that Newton was translating the Hermes Trismegistus Emerald Tablet.   It wasn't written by Newton but just translated by him.   As for why the Royal Society don't generally publish alchemical works, I leave you to discover for yourself.

He quotes it because he BELIEVES it.  The same reason rounders quote the misguided Copernicus.

I'd also like to add that Newton's theories are entirely independent from Newton himself.  We could have misunderstood every single word he ever published and it could be discovered that he supported the concave Earth theory, and none of that would influence modern science.  The theory stands apart from the man and it is supported by evidence, not by reverence for Newton.

I think Newton was one of the greats. Half of his works have never been published because the Royal Society has not allowed such (only extracts).  His theories- if properly interpreted, and FULLY released, would show that the physical laws he posited in conjunction with others (including his theory of aetheric winds) would conclusively show NEWTON supported the flat earth theory.

Quote from: Rayzor on March 12, 2016, 05:11:22 PM

Uh, no you missed the point that Newton was translating the Hermes Trismegistus Emerald Tablet.   It wasn't written by Newton but just translated by him.   As for why the Royal Society don't generally publish alchemical works, I leave you to discover for yourself.

He quotes it because he BELIEVES it.  The same reason rounders quote the misguided Copernicus.

He translated lots of things, and was heavily involved with the occult and alchemy,  but he never was much interested in publishing his work,  even Principia required a concerted effort by others to get him to finish it and get it published. The Royal Society blew the budget on publishing a book on the History of Fishes,  and almost didn't publish Newton's Principia.

Fat chance some of his more esoteric work on the occult and alchemical, would ever get published,  not to mention he was heavily into biblical numerology.  He famously predicted the world would end not before 2060.

Newton was a rare genius,  at a time when there were no clear boundaries between alchemy and science.

PS.   You might be interested in this project   http://www.newtonproject.sussex.ac.uk/prism.php?id=26

I would like to point for being buried by the Royal Society it seems rather easy to find and in several places.
Seems if I wanted to hide something I would not let the information be on the internet.
Doing a search I can find books and websites with the information.
The Cabal really seems not too good with keeping information hidden from the general public.
It should not be long before the truth is revealed, or maybe it has been already.

Yeah don't put words in peoples mouth.  Sir Richard said they buried it.  There was no allusion towards intention of "hiding" anything.  They just stuck it at the bottom of the book pile is all or in a corner of the library out of place but on the shelf in plain view.  Out of sight out of mind.  Don't be ignorant.

     Uh, no you missed the point that Newton was translating the Hermes Trismegistus Emerald Tablet.   It wasn't written by Newton but just translated by him.   As for why the Royal Society don't generally publish alchemical works, I leave you to discover for yourself.

     Are you even listening to yourself?  It was translated and WRITTEN DOWN by Newton from his OWN UNIQUE perspective as is evident by the numerous other translations by others from their OWN UNIQUE perspective.  It WAS his WORK or else you would have to learn a new language and do it on your own.  Don't be an ignoramus.

Quote from: Woody on March 12, 2016, 08:48:23 PM

I would like to point for being buried by the Royal Society it seems rather easy to find and in several places.
Seems if I wanted to hide something I would not let the information be on the internet.
Doing a search I can find books and websites with the information.
The Cabal really seems not too good with keeping information hidden from the general public.
It should not be long before the truth is revealed, or maybe it has been already.

Yeah don't put words in peoples mouth.  Sir Richard said they buried it.  There was no allusion towards intention of "hiding" anything.  They just stuck it at the bottom of the book pile is all or in a corner of the library out of place but on the shelf in plain view.  Out of sight out of mind.  Don't be ignorant.

Quote from: Rayzor on March 12, 2016, 05:11:22 PM

     Uh, no you missed the point that Newton was translating the Hermes Trismegistus Emerald Tablet.   It wasn't written by Newton but just translated by him.   As for why the Royal Society don't generally publish alchemical works, I leave you to discover for yourself.

     Are you even listening to yourself?  It was translated and WRITTEN DOWN by Newton from his OWN UNIQUE perspective as is evident by the numerous other translations by others from their OWN UNIQUE perspective.  It WAS his WORK or else you would have to learn a new language and do it on your own.  Don't be an ignoramus.

And you know this how exactly?
Why would I have to learn a new language,  how is that relevant?

Quote from: Sir Richard on March 13, 2016, 06:01:52 AM

Quote from: Rayzor on March 12, 2016, 05:11:22 PM

Uh, no you missed the point that Newton was translating the Hermes Trismegistus Emerald Tablet.   It wasn't written by Newton but just translated by him.   As for why the Royal Society don't generally publish alchemical works, I leave you to discover for yourself.

He quotes it because he BELIEVES it.  The same reason rounders quote the misguided Copernicus.

He translated lots of things, and was heavily involved with the occult and alchemy,  but he never was much interested in publishing his work,  even Principia required a concerted effort by others to get him to finish it and get it published. The Royal Society blew the budget on publishing a book on the History of Fishes,  and almost didn't publish Newton's Principia.

Fat chance some of his more esoteric work on the occult and alchemical, would ever get published,  not to mention he was heavily into biblical numerology.  He famously predicted the world would end not before 2060.

Newton was a rare genius,  at a time when there were no clear boundaries between alchemy and science.

PS.   You might be interested in this project   http://www.newtonproject.sussex.ac.uk/prism.php?id=26

Ray,

I don't get it. why do you suppose Newton would write this, I thought he was the one who came up with this notion of gravity, in the letter he said it was absurd:

It is inconceivable that inanimate Matter should, without the Mediation of something else, which is not material, operate upon, and affect other matter without mutual Contact…That Gravity should be innate, inherent and essential to Matter, so that one body may act upon another at a distance thro' a Vacuum, without the Mediation of any thing else, by and through which their Action and Force may be conveyed from one to another, is to me so great an Absurdity that I believe no Man who has in philosophical Matters a competent Faculty of thinking can ever fall into it. Gravity must be caused by an Agent acting constantly according to certain laws; but whether this Agent be material or immaterial, I have left to the Consideration of my readers.

— Isaac Newton, Letters to Bentley, 1692/3

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Action_at_a_distance

Quote from: ZackAttack on March 13, 2016, 06:40:39 AM

Quote from: Woody on March 12, 2016, 08:48:23 PM

I would like to point for being buried by the Royal Society it seems rather easy to find and in several places.
Seems if I wanted to hide something I would not let the information be on the internet.
Doing a search I can find books and websites with the information.
The Cabal really seems not too good with keeping information hidden from the general public.
It should not be long before the truth is revealed, or maybe it has been already.

Yeah don't put words in peoples mouth.  Sir Richard said they buried it.  There was no allusion towards intention of "hiding" anything.  They just stuck it at the bottom of the book pile is all or in a corner of the library out of place but on the shelf in plain view.  Out of sight out of mind.  Don't be ignorant.

Quote from: Rayzor on March 12, 2016, 05:11:22 PM

     Uh, no you missed the point that Newton was translating the Hermes Trismegistus Emerald Tablet.   It wasn't written by Newton but just translated by him.   As for why the Royal Society don't generally publish alchemical works, I leave you to discover for yourself.

     Are you even listening to yourself?  It was translated and WRITTEN DOWN by Newton from his OWN UNIQUE perspective as is evident by the numerous other translations by others from their OWN UNIQUE perspective.  It WAS his WORK or else you would have to learn a new language and do it on your own.  Don't be an ignoramus.

And you know this how exactly?
Why would I have to learn a new language,  how is that relevant?

It's relevant because you are contradicting your self.  It's not Newton's own idea but it is written in his own hand and it was translated (meaning originally written in another language) and THAT was his work.  He saved you from having to translate it yourself.  Easy.

Quote from: Rayzor on March 13, 2016, 07:31:00 AM

Quote from: ZackAttack on March 13, 2016, 06:40:39 AM

Quote from: Woody on March 12, 2016, 08:48:23 PM

I would like to point for being buried by the Royal Society it seems rather easy to find and in several places.
Seems if I wanted to hide something I would not let the information be on the internet.
Doing a search I can find books and websites with the information.
The Cabal really seems not too good with keeping information hidden from the general public.
It should not be long before the truth is revealed, or maybe it has been already.

Yeah don't put words in peoples mouth.  Sir Richard said they buried it.  There was no allusion towards intention of "hiding" anything.  They just stuck it at the bottom of the book pile is all or in a corner of the library out of place but on the shelf in plain view.  Out of sight out of mind.  Don't be ignorant.

Quote from: Rayzor on March 12, 2016, 05:11:22 PM

     Uh, no you missed the point that Newton was translating the Hermes Trismegistus Emerald Tablet.   It wasn't written by Newton but just translated by him.   As for why the Royal Society don't generally publish alchemical works, I leave you to discover for yourself.

     Are you even listening to yourself?  It was translated and WRITTEN DOWN by Newton from his OWN UNIQUE perspective as is evident by the numerous other translations by others from their OWN UNIQUE perspective.  It WAS his WORK or else you would have to learn a new language and do it on your own.  Don't be an ignoramus.

And you know this how exactly?
Why would I have to learn a new language,  how is that relevant?

It's relevant because you are contradicting your self.  It's not Newton's own idea but it is written in his own hand and it was translated (meaning originally written in another language) and THAT was his work.  He saved you from having to translate it yourself.  Easy.

Other translations by many others read the same as Newtons,   the notion that these are Newton's own concepts is absurd,  the Emerald Tablet was a standard alchemical reference over the ages. 

Also what make you think I don't speak Latin?   


Rodney,

I'm sure you asked that same question once before,  and I don't think the answer would have changed,  Newton formulated the equations describing planetary motion, and calculated the orbits of the planets,  the fact that he didn't profess to understand what lay behind the maths doesn't make Newtonian mechanics any less valid.   We still don't  understand gravity,  but that doesn't make it any less real.  Or Newtons equations any less accurate.

Some history http://www.mathpages.com/home/kmath658/kmath658.htm

Newton,  Hooke and Halley all knew the earth was a globe,   Hooke determined the inverse square law of gravity from observations of atmospheric pressure vs altitude.

"In 1684 Dr Halley came to visit him at Cambridge. After they had been some time together, the Dr asked him what he thought the curve would be that would be described by the planets supposing the force of attraction towards the sun to be reciprocal to the square of their distance from it. Sir Isaac replied immediately that it would be an ellipse. The Doctor, struck with joy and amazement, asked him how he knew it. Why, saith he, I have calculated it. Whereupon Dr Halley asked him for his calculation without any farther delay. Sir Isaac looked among his papers but could not find it, but he promised him to renew it and then to send it him…"

As a result of that visit Newton rewrote the whole thing and ended up writing the  Principia. 

Quote from: ZackAttack on March 13, 2016, 08:11:53 AM

Quote from: Rayzor on March 13, 2016, 07:31:00 AM

Quote from: ZackAttack on March 13, 2016, 06:40:39 AM

Quote from: Woody on March 12, 2016, 08:48:23 PM

I would like to point for being buried by the Royal Society it seems rather easy to find and in several places.
Seems if I wanted to hide something I would not let the information be on the internet.
Doing a search I can find books and websites with the information.
The Cabal really seems not too good with keeping information hidden from the general public.
It should not be long before the truth is revealed, or maybe it has been already.

Yeah don't put words in peoples mouth.  Sir Richard said they buried it.  There was no allusion towards intention of "hiding" anything.  They just stuck it at the bottom of the book pile is all or in a corner of the library out of place but on the shelf in plain view.  Out of sight out of mind.  Don't be ignorant.

Quote from: Rayzor on March 12, 2016, 05:11:22 PM

     Uh, no you missed the point that Newton was translating the Hermes Trismegistus Emerald Tablet.   It wasn't written by Newton but just translated by him.   As for why the Royal Society don't generally publish alchemical works, I leave you to discover for yourself.

     Are you even listening to yourself?  It was translated and WRITTEN DOWN by Newton from his OWN UNIQUE perspective as is evident by the numerous other translations by others from their OWN UNIQUE perspective.  It WAS his WORK or else you would have to learn a new language and do it on your own.  Don't be an ignoramus.

And you know this how exactly?
Why would I have to learn a new language,  how is that relevant?

It's relevant because you are contradicting your self.  It's not Newton's own idea but it is written in his own hand and it was translated (meaning originally written in another language) and THAT was his work.  He saved you from having to translate it yourself.  Easy.

Other translations by many others read the same as Newtons,   the notion that these are Newton's own concepts is absurd,  the Emerald Tablet was a standard alchemical reference over the ages. 

Also what make you think I don't speak Latin?   


Rodney,

I'm sure you asked that same question once before,  and I don't think the answer would have changed,  Newton formulated the equations describing planetary motion, and calculated the orbits of the planets,  the fact that he didn't profess to understand what lay behind the maths doesn't make Newtonian mechanics any less valid.   We still don't  understand gravity,  but that doesn't make it any less real.  Or Newtons equations any less accurate.

Some history http://www.mathpages.com/home/kmath658/kmath658.htm

Newton,  Hooke and Halley all knew the earth was a globe,   Hooke determined the inverse square law of gravity from observations of atmospheric pressure vs altitude.

"In 1684 Dr Halley came to visit him at Cambridge. After they had been some time together, the Dr asked him what he thought the curve would be that would be described by the planets supposing the force of attraction towards the sun to be reciprocal to the square of their distance from it. Sir Isaac replied immediately that it would be an ellipse. The Doctor, struck with joy and amazement, asked him how he knew it. Why, saith he, I have calculated it. Whereupon Dr Halley asked him for his calculation without any farther delay. Sir Isaac looked among his papers but could not find it, but he promised him to renew it and then to send it him…"

As a result of that visit Newton rewrote the whole thing and ended up writing the  Principia.

Yes Ray, I am asking the same question as before and is it okay for Newton to change his mind but others can't? Is that what you are saying or I'm I misunderstanding what you are saying. Before that Newton believed in centripetal force and a real and opposite force centrifugal. He believed that nature would not allow a force that didn't have an equal and opposite force. It was very real to him. He didn't mention it in the Principia. Now we are taught centrifugal force is not a real force at all. Was Newton right before or later on?

When has anyone proven that a force exists without an opposite? In an inertial reference frame of course.
Centrifugal force isn't the opposite force of a centrapedial force, an equal and opposite force pair is two opposite forces acting on two objects.
So take the centrapedial force on a car turning around a corner, being looked at by a observer standing at the side of the road. The centrapedial force is the inwards force the road exerts on the car causing it to turn, the opposite force is an outward force the car exerts on the road, this force is ignored since the massive mass of the ground means it causes almost no movement of the road.
The centrifugal force only appears for someone inside the car, because they are in a non inertial reference frame. The centrifugal force has no opposite because the three laws only work in inertia frames of reference, e.g. the person standing at the side of the road.

Quote from: ZackAttack on March 13, 2016, 06:40:39 AM

Quote from: Woody on March 12, 2016, 08:48:23 PM

I would like to point for being buried by the Royal Society it seems rather easy to find and in several places.
Seems if I wanted to hide something I would not let the information be on the internet.
Doing a search I can find books and websites with the information.
The Cabal really seems not too good with keeping information hidden from the general public.
It should not be long before the truth is revealed, or maybe it has been already.

Yeah don't put words in peoples mouth.  Sir Richard said they buried it.  There was no allusion towards intention of "hiding" anything.  They just stuck it at the bottom of the book pile is all or in a corner of the library out of place but on the shelf in plain view.  Out of sight out of mind.  Don't be ignorant.

Quote from: Rayzor on March 12, 2016, 05:11:22 PM

     Uh, no you missed the point that Newton was translating the Hermes Trismegistus Emerald Tablet.   It wasn't written by Newton but just translated by him.   As for why the Royal Society don't generally publish alchemical works, I leave you to discover for yourself.

     Are you even listening to yourself?  It was translated and WRITTEN DOWN by Newton from his OWN UNIQUE perspective as is evident by the numerous other translations by others from their OWN UNIQUE perspective.  It WAS his WORK or else you would have to learn a new language and do it on your own.  Don't be an ignoramus.

And you know this how exactly?
Why would I have to learn a new language,  how is that relevant?

Quia non legistis loqueris. Rogeri Bacon, Sir scripsit, " Qui Latine non possit non esse eruditos. "

Bacon recte probari .

Quote from: Sir Richard on March 13, 2016, 06:01:52 AM

Quote from: Rayzor on March 12, 2016, 05:11:22 PM

Uh, no you missed the point that Newton was translating the Hermes Trismegistus Emerald Tablet.   It wasn't written by Newton but just translated by him.   As for why the Royal Society don't generally publish alchemical works, I leave you to discover for yourself.

He quotes it because he BELIEVES it.  The same reason rounders quote the misguided Copernicus.

He translated lots of things, and was heavily involved with the occult and alchemy,  but he never was much interested in publishing his work,  even Principia required a concerted effort by others to get him to finish it and get it published. The Royal Society blew the budget on publishing a book on the History of Fishes,  and almost didn't publish Newton's Principia.

Fat chance some of his more esoteric work on the occult and alchemical, would ever get published,  not to mention he was heavily into biblical numerology.  He famously predicted the world would end not before 2060.

Newton was a rare genius,  at a time when there were no clear boundaries between alchemy and science.

PS.   You might be interested in this project   http://www.newtonproject.sussex.ac.uk/prism.php?id=26

Funny how the rounders LOVE Newton until the realize that Newton's beliefs and writings clearly contradict their "paradigm."  The Royal Society did NOT publish his work because of its conclusions.

Quote from: Rayzor on March 13, 2016, 08:38:34 AM

Quote from: ZackAttack on March 13, 2016, 08:11:53 AM

Quote from: Rayzor on March 13, 2016, 07:31:00 AM

Quote from: ZackAttack on March 13, 2016, 06:40:39 AM

Quote from: Woody on March 12, 2016, 08:48:23 PM

I would like to point for being buried by the Royal Society it seems rather easy to find and in several places.
Seems if I wanted to hide something I would not let the information be on the internet.
Doing a search I can find books and websites with the information.
The Cabal really seems not too good with keeping information hidden from the general public.
It should not be long before the truth is revealed, or maybe it has been already.

Yeah don't put words in peoples mouth.  Sir Richard said they buried it.  There was no allusion towards intention of "hiding" anything.  They just stuck it at the bottom of the book pile is all or in a corner of the library out of place but on the shelf in plain view.  Out of sight out of mind.  Don't be ignorant.

Quote from: Rayzor on March 12, 2016, 05:11:22 PM

     Uh, no you missed the point that Newton was translating the Hermes Trismegistus Emerald Tablet.   It wasn't written by Newton but just translated by him.   As for why the Royal Society don't generally publish alchemical works, I leave you to discover for yourself.

     Are you even listening to yourself?  It was translated and WRITTEN DOWN by Newton from his OWN UNIQUE perspective as is evident by the numerous other translations by others from their OWN UNIQUE perspective.  It WAS his WORK or else you would have to learn a new language and do it on your own.  Don't be an ignoramus.

And you know this how exactly?
Why would I have to learn a new language,  how is that relevant?

It's relevant because you are contradicting your self.  It's not Newton's own idea but it is written in his own hand and it was translated (meaning originally written in another language) and THAT was his work.  He saved you from having to translate it yourself.  Easy.

Other translations by many others read the same as Newtons,   the notion that these are Newton's own concepts is absurd,  the Emerald Tablet was a standard alchemical reference over the ages. 

Also what make you think I don't speak Latin?   


Rodney,

I'm sure you asked that same question once before,  and I don't think the answer would have changed,  Newton formulated the equations describing planetary motion, and calculated the orbits of the planets,  the fact that he didn't profess to understand what lay behind the maths doesn't make Newtonian mechanics any less valid.   We still don't  understand gravity,  but that doesn't make it any less real.  Or Newtons equations any less accurate.

Some history http://www.mathpages.com/home/kmath658/kmath658.htm

Newton,  Hooke and Halley all knew the earth was a globe,   Hooke determined the inverse square law of gravity from observations of atmospheric pressure vs altitude.

"In 1684 Dr Halley came to visit him at Cambridge. After they had been some time together, the Dr asked him what he thought the curve would be that would be described by the planets supposing the force of attraction towards the sun to be reciprocal to the square of their distance from it. Sir Isaac replied immediately that it would be an ellipse. The Doctor, struck with joy and amazement, asked him how he knew it. Why, saith he, I have calculated it. Whereupon Dr Halley asked him for his calculation without any farther delay. Sir Isaac looked among his papers but could not find it, but he promised him to renew it and then to send it him…"

As a result of that visit Newton rewrote the whole thing and ended up writing the  Principia.

Yes Ray, I am asking the same question as before and is it okay for Newton to change his mind but others can't? Is that what you are saying or I'm I misunderstanding what you are saying. Before that Newton believed in centripetal force and a real and opposite force centrifugal. He believed that nature would not allow a force that didn't have an equal and opposite force. It was very real to him. He didn't mention it in the Principia. Now we are taught centrifugal force is not a real force at all. Was Newton right before or later on?

You are at the heart of the matter. We have one version- or one period of Newton's thinking- but his full thinking or his final edict on physics or planetary motions or even the existence of such. This is my point. The rounders trot out Newton or at least they do until they realize where his studies ultimately led him. They say "oh this and this were great" but we reject "That and that ...we because it does not jive with our thinking" not realizing that Newton was led to differing conclusions that the ones the rounders like.

Quote from: Rayzor on March 13, 2016, 08:38:34 AM

Rodney,

I'm sure you asked that same question once before,  and I don't think the answer would have changed,  Newton formulated the equations describing planetary motion, and calculated the orbits of the planets,  the fact that he didn't profess to understand what lay behind the maths doesn't make Newtonian mechanics any less valid.   We still don't  understand gravity,  but that doesn't make it any less real.  Or Newtons equations any less accurate.

Some history http://www.mathpages.com/home/kmath658/kmath658.htm

Newton,  Hooke and Halley all knew the earth was a globe,   Hooke determined the inverse square law of gravity from observations of atmospheric pressure vs altitude.

"In 1684 Dr Halley came to visit him at Cambridge. After they had been some time together, the Dr asked him what he thought the curve would be that would be described by the planets supposing the force of attraction towards the sun to be reciprocal to the square of their distance from it. Sir Isaac replied immediately that it would be an ellipse. The Doctor, struck with joy and amazement, asked him how he knew it. Why, saith he, I have calculated it. Whereupon Dr Halley asked him for his calculation without any farther delay. Sir Isaac looked among his papers but could not find it, but he promised him to renew it and then to send it him…"

As a result of that visit Newton rewrote the whole thing and ended up writing the  Principia.

Yes Ray, I am asking the same question as before and is it okay for Newton to change his mind but others can't? Is that what you are saying or I'm I misunderstanding what you are saying. Before that Newton believed in centripetal force and a real and opposite force centrifugal. He believed that nature would not allow a force that didn't have an equal and opposite force. It was very real to him. He didn't mention it in the Principia. Now we are taught centrifugal force is not a real force at all. Was Newton right before or later on?

Not sure I can answer,   I wasn't aware he changed his mind,  but everyone should always be open to new evidence that changes their minds.  That's the essence of scientific discovery, we are always learning new things about the universe.   

As far as centripetal/centrifugal force goes,  I find it easier to think in terms of acceleration.   You tie a weight to a piece of string,  and swing it around,  the force you feel is the force you are applying to the string to accelerate the weight radially and make it move in a circle.   The force is applied towards the center of the circle,  (that's centripetal)  and you feel the weight wanting to fly off ( that's centrifugal).

Centripetal is a real force,  centrifugal is not a real force as such.   Confused?    Go back to our discussion on orbital mechanics,  the only force on a satellite in orbit is centripetal ( gravity).

Quote from: Rayzor on March 13, 2016, 06:34:29 AM

Quote from: Sir Richard on March 13, 2016, 06:01:52 AM

Quote from: Rayzor on March 12, 2016, 05:11:22 PM

Uh, no you missed the point that Newton was translating the Hermes Trismegistus Emerald Tablet.   It wasn't written by Newton but just translated by him.   As for why the Royal Society don't generally publish alchemical works, I leave you to discover for yourself.

He quotes it because he BELIEVES it.  The same reason rounders quote the misguided Copernicus.

He translated lots of things, and was heavily involved with the occult and alchemy,  but he never was much interested in publishing his work,  even Principia required a concerted effort by others to get him to finish it and get it published. The Royal Society blew the budget on publishing a book on the History of Fishes,  and almost didn't publish Newton's Principia.

Fat chance some of his more esoteric work on the occult and alchemical, would ever get published,  not to mention he was heavily into biblical numerology.  He famously predicted the world would end not before 2060.

Newton was a rare genius,  at a time when there were no clear boundaries between alchemy and science.

PS.   You might be interested in this project   http://www.newtonproject.sussex.ac.uk/prism.php?id=26

Funny how the rounders LOVE Newton until the realize that Newton's beliefs and writings clearly contradict their "paradigm."  The Royal Society did NOT publish his work because of its conclusions.

No the Royal Society didn't publish it because of it's conclusions,  they just don't usually publish papers on the occult and alchemy,  nor biblical numerology.  Not that they even had the money to do so anyway.

I'm not aware that Newton would have even wanted his work published, he was evidently very secretive about it.

Quote from: Yendor on March 13, 2016, 09:48:54 AM

Quote from: Rayzor on March 13, 2016, 08:38:34 AM

Rodney,

I'm sure you asked that same question once before,  and I don't think the answer would have changed,  Newton formulated the equations describing planetary motion, and calculated the orbits of the planets,  the fact that he didn't profess to understand what lay behind the maths doesn't make Newtonian mechanics any less valid.   We still don't  understand gravity,  but that doesn't make it any less real.  Or Newtons equations any less accurate.

Some history http://www.mathpages.com/home/kmath658/kmath658.htm

Newton,  Hooke and Halley all knew the earth was a globe,   Hooke determined the inverse square law of gravity from observations of atmospheric pressure vs altitude.

"In 1684 Dr Halley came to visit him at Cambridge. After they had been some time together, the Dr asked him what he thought the curve would be that would be described by the planets supposing the force of attraction towards the sun to be reciprocal to the square of their distance from it. Sir Isaac replied immediately that it would be an ellipse. The Doctor, struck with joy and amazement, asked him how he knew it. Why, saith he, I have calculated it. Whereupon Dr Halley asked him for his calculation without any farther delay. Sir Isaac looked among his papers but could not find it, but he promised him to renew it and then to send it him…"

As a result of that visit Newton rewrote the whole thing and ended up writing the  Principia.

Yes Ray, I am asking the same question as before and is it okay for Newton to change his mind but others can't? Is that what you are saying or I'm I misunderstanding what you are saying. Before that Newton believed in centripetal force and a real and opposite force centrifugal. He believed that nature would not allow a force that didn't have an equal and opposite force. It was very real to him. He didn't mention it in the Principia. Now we are taught centrifugal force is not a real force at all. Was Newton right before or later on?

Not sure I can answer,   I wasn't aware he changed his mind,  but everyone should always be open to new evidence that changes their minds.  That's the essence of scientific discovery, we are always learning new things about the universe.   

As far as centripetal/centrifugal force goes,  I find it easier to think in terms of acceleration.   You tie a weight to a piece of string,  and swing it around,  the force you feel is the force you are applying to the string to accelerate the weight radially and make it move in a circle.   The force is applied towards the center of the circle,  (that's centripetal)  and you feel the weight wanting to fly off ( that's centrifugal).

Centripetal is a real force,  centrifugal is not a real force as such.   Confused?    Go back to our discussion on orbital mechanics,  the only force on a satellite in orbit is centripetal ( gravity).

Is the force pulling you outwards towards the string centrifugal, I don't think it is. Centrifugal force is the one felt by an ant standing on the weight, caused by being in an accelerating reference frame. The person swinging the rope is in an inertial reference frame so they don't feel a centrifugal force. The force pulling them outwards towards the mass is just the equal and opposite force to the centrepedial force that pulls the mass,  I don't know if this force has a special name.

Funny how the rounders LOVE Newton until the realize that Newton's beliefs and writings clearly contradict their "paradigm."  The Royal Society did NOT publish his work because of its conclusions.

Newton was a massive arsehole with some bizarre beliefs.  He was also a scientific genius who made amazing discoveries.

The personality is irrelevant, what matter is the science and whether it works.  Newtonian physics is still in text books and used by engineers and scientists ever day because, within certain parameters, it works.    Alchemy doesn't work, so it doesn't get used.

Whether Newton had eggs on a Tuesday or thought Santa Claus was real doesn't matter, at least to scientists anyway.  If Newton had not made those discoveries, someone else would have done.

Funny how the rounders LOVE Newton until the realize that Newton's beliefs and writings clearly contradict their "paradigm." 

That and when they realize his whole universe was held together by magic. And that he was a lying cheating thief whose accomplishments lie not on the shoulders of giants, but because he would actively discredit other scientists to then steal their work later. He was truly an awful human being.

Quote from: Sir Richard on March 13, 2016, 05:05:59 PM

Funny how the rounders LOVE Newton until the realize that Newton's beliefs and writings clearly contradict their "paradigm." 

That and when they realize his whole universe was held together by magic. And that he was a lying cheating thief whose accomplishments lie not on the shoulders of giants, but because he would actively discredit other scientists to then steal their work later. He was truly an awful human being.

He was but I do agree with his views on aether.

Quote from: Sir Richard on March 13, 2016, 05:05:59 PM

Funny how the rounders LOVE Newton until the realize that Newton's beliefs and writings clearly contradict their "paradigm." 

That and when they realize his whole universe was held together by magic. And that he was a lying cheating thief whose accomplishments lie not on the shoulders of giants, but because he would actively discredit other scientists to then steal their work later. He was truly an awful human being.

But as said above, it is no longer the person that really matters, but the theory.