Geodetic Surveyor Straightens Out The Flat Earth Reality

The Geodetic Surveyor Jesse Kozlowski made this video describing just what a Geodetic Surveyor does and how in the end these surveyors have effectively "measured the earth" and shown that it simply cannot be a flat plane. This might seem to contradict the "Hundred Proofs" from TFES Wiki

A hundred proofs the Earth is not a globe
Surveyors' operations in the construction of railroads, tunnels, or canals are conducted without the slightest "allowance" being made for "curvature," although it is taught that this so-called allowance is absolutely necessary! This is a cutting proof that Earth is not a globe.

So it might be worth finding out what a "Geodetic Surveyor" does that is different from the job a "Plane Surveyor: does.
The video is aimed at those looking into the possibility of the Flat Earth, and does dissect some FE videos that have been on Youtube, showing where they are quite mistaken.

His presentation is quite reasoned and quiet, with none of the histrionics we find on many Youtube FE videos.
The results he presents go right back to the earliest days of Geodetic Surveying, way before there was any thought of the current FE movement and conspiracy ideas.

But, I have to warn any viewers that it quite long, though nothing like the marathon sessions needed for some of "The biggest lie" videos.

Great video! Yes, we forgot about the masonic surveyors being part of the grand conspiracy.  All of them over 5 centuries working all over the earth (at least where surveying was being done) of course ONLY to fool the dumb masses that the earth really isn't in reality flat, but a ball. 

In a nutshell, "Spherical Excess!" Case closed...There is no way to counter this argument, and assuming that the earth was indeed flat, spherical excess would not exist, e.g., the earth is indeed spherical in shape. 

Great video. Like really great. 

I mean I've only been around here for about a week, and the sheer volume of information and proof of the earth being round I've seen shared already is colossal. I'm actually astounded that the flat earth idea is actually still around, considering the age of this website. I can't have come about just as all this information is being presented.

These people must be still believing in this madness in the face of all this absolute proof!!

Why on earth else would the FE folk still even be here? It seems completely indisputable to me. I literally cannot get my head round how someone can carry on grasping a belief such to the contrary of this literal onslaught of credible, mathematically and logically sound, absolute substantive evidence that the earth isn't flat.

There must come a point where the know they're wrong, and somehow switch on such heavy denial to stop the sheer cognitive dissonance that must come from that position.

The one observation remains, that people would rather be true to their convictions that correct. Ugh, it must be horrible to know on some level that you're fundamentally wrong about something you defend so deeply. It's not even like religious folk or what have you as the God debate is impossible to prove either way. But the shape of the earth? lol.

I watched part of it but I'm sure it's good.

True; anyone with a rational mind would watch the video and come to one conclusion: the earth is indeed round.  It's astounding that anyone cannot disregard hundreds of years of Geodetic Surveying as fabricated.  Can you imagine the sheer scale of such an assumption?!?  If you can comprehend what he is measuring then it is indisputable.  There is no grey area or room for interpretation.  On the other hand I still feel that a vast majority of FE believers would not accept it as it indeed throws their world view upside down. 

The math is indisputable. Unless, as he said, there is Flat Earth math somewhere...

Good video. And I'm quite fascinated to read about the history of geodesy now.

Anybody know of any good books?

Great video and presented really well.  Did a way better job then I did in the forum when I mentioned surveyors conducting geodetic surveys.

He showed the methodology and it can easily be verified.  I wonder why someone like Tom Bishop does not just spend the couple of hundred dollars it would cost to get the equipment and start doing some surveys of his own.

The Geodetic Surveyor Jesse Kozlowski made this video describing just what a Geodetic Surveyor does and how in the end these surveyors have effectively "measured the earth" and shown that it simply cannot be a flat plane. This might seem to contradict the "Hundred Proofs" from TFES Wiki

Quote from: the Wiki

A hundred proofs the Earth is not a globe
Surveyors' operations in the construction of railroads, tunnels, or canals are conducted without the slightest "allowance" being made for "curvature," although it is taught that this so-called allowance is absolutely necessary! This is a cutting proof that Earth is not a globe.

So it might be worth finding out what a "Geodetic Surveyor" does that is different from the job a "Plane Surveyor: does.
The video is aimed at those looking into the possibility of the Flat Earth, and does dissect some FE videos that have been on Youtube, showing where they are quite mistaken.

His presentation is quite reasoned and quiet, with none of the histrionics we find on many Youtube FE videos.
The results he presents go right back to the earliest days of Geodetic Surveying, way before there was any thought of the current FE movement and conspiracy ideas.

But, I have to warn any viewers that it quite long, though nothing like the marathon sessions needed for some of "The biggest lie" videos.

" class="bbc_link" target="_blank" rel="noopener noreferrer">

I found it quite worth watching, though I could be classed as seriously biased!

He didn't explain how and why curvature formula (8 inch * miles squared) is erroneous-unusable. He is saying over and over again that we are confusing curvature formula with the line of sight. What is that supposed to mean? How can you see something if there is bulge of water between you and the object you are looking at which (the bulge) is higher than the object which you can see but which you shouldn't be able to see if this high bulge of water existed right in the middle - half a way between you and the object which you observe??? So, regardless whether the earth is oblate spheroid or not, this guy is a complete idiot, no doubts about that! He proved only that he is a complete idiot, nothing else!

 

You need to watch again, and take notes.

There's even a diagram showing precisely what they're doing wrong when they apply the formula.

You need to watch again, and take notes.

There's even a diagram showing precisely what they're doing wrong when they apply the formula.

Watch this : " class="bbc_link" target="_blank" rel="noopener noreferrer"> , and take notes!

Does your video show a method that allows me or you or anybody to personally go out in the field, anywhere in the world, and mathematically prove that the earth is flat?

The original video in this thread shows a means for you to personally step outside your house, take measurements just one mile apart, and prove FE incorrect.

Give me a mathematical method of equivalent simplicity proving FE and I will personally go out and make the measurements. I promise. But anything less, I don't care about 

You gonna love this : BUSTED! - 2015 NASA Photo Fakery Revealed : " class="bbc_link" target="_blank" rel="noopener noreferrer">

Please see previous post.

So, regardless whether the earth is oblate spheroid or not, this guy is a complete idiot, no doubts about that! He proved only that he is a complete idiot, nothing else!

Maybe we should have a poll!

[ ] Is cikljamas  a complete idiot, no doubts about that! He proved only that he is a complete idiot, nothing else!
[ ] Is the Geodetic Surveyor a complete idiot, no doubts about that! He proved only that he is a complete idiot, nothing else!

But, I did note that the Geodetic Surveyor was polite and never said that anyone was "a complete idiot".
Does that say something about the type of people we are dealing with?

Quote from: rabinoz on March 07, 2016, 04:16:08 AM

The Geodetic Surveyor Jesse Kozlowski made this video describing just what a Geodetic Surveyor does and how in the end these surveyors have effectively "measured the earth" and shown that it simply cannot be a flat plane. This might seem to contradict the "Hundred Proofs" from TFES Wiki

Quote from: the Wiki

A hundred proofs the Earth is not a globe
Surveyors' operations in the construction of railroads, tunnels, or canals are conducted without the slightest "allowance" being made for "curvature," although it is taught that this so-called allowance is absolutely necessary! This is a cutting proof that Earth is not a globe.

So it might be worth finding out what a "Geodetic Surveyor" does that is different from the job a "Plane Surveyor: does.
The video is aimed at those looking into the possibility of the Flat Earth, and does dissect some FE videos that have been on Youtube, showing where they are quite mistaken.

His presentation is quite reasoned and quiet, with none of the histrionics we find on many Youtube FE videos.
The results he presents go right back to the earliest days of Geodetic Surveying, way before there was any thought of the current FE movement and conspiracy ideas.

But, I have to warn any viewers that it quite long, though nothing like the marathon sessions needed for some of "The biggest lie" videos.

" class="bbc_link" target="_blank" rel="noopener noreferrer">

I found it quite worth watching, though I could be classed as seriously biased!

He didn't explain how and why curvature formula (8 inch * miles squared) is erroneous-unusable. He is saying over and over again that we are confusing curvature formula with the line of sight. What is that supposed to mean?

Yes, he did. I think it's around 18:30 in the video. In short, he means that one mistake is ignoring the height you're observing from, and that can make a huge difference.

How can you see something if there is bulge of water between you and the object you are looking at which (the bulge) is higher than the object which you can see but which you shouldn't be able to see if this high bulge of water existed right in the middle - half a way between you and the object which you observe???

Calm down. If your view of something is obstructed, you can't see it[nb]That's what is meant by "obstructed".[/nb]. If you're looking over the "bulge of water" (or whatever) you can see it. It's pretty simple, really.

So, regardless whether the earth is oblate spheroid or not, this guy is a complete idiot, no doubts about that! He proved only that he is a complete idiot, nothing else!

No, he presented a very clear, calm, competent, and dispassionate explanation. He presented his data, invited you to examine other well-established data, and suggested you collect your own data. You, on the other hand...

So go out, take some measurements, and show everyone how much smarter and more clear-headed you are than all that have gone before. Or, you could make yet another video based on misguided opinions but devoid of facts and meaningful data instead.
 

Quote from: rabinoz on March 07, 2016, 04:16:08 AM

The Geodetic Surveyor Jesse Kozlowski made this video describing just what a Geodetic Surveyor does and how in the end these surveyors have effectively "measured the earth" and shown that it simply cannot be a flat plane. This might seem to contradict the "Hundred Proofs" from TFES Wiki

Quote from: the Wiki

A hundred proofs the Earth is not a globe
Surveyors' operations in the construction of railroads, tunnels, or canals are conducted without the slightest "allowance" being made for "curvature," although it is taught that this so-called allowance is absolutely necessary! This is a cutting proof that Earth is not a globe.

So it might be worth finding out what a "Geodetic Surveyor" does that is different from the job a "Plane Surveyor: does.
The video is aimed at those looking into the possibility of the Flat Earth, and does dissect some FE videos that have been on Youtube, showing where they are quite mistaken.

His presentation is quite reasoned and quiet, with none of the histrionics we find on many Youtube FE videos.
The results he presents go right back to the earliest days of Geodetic Surveying, way before there was any thought of the current FE movement and conspiracy ideas.

But, I have to warn any viewers that it quite long, though nothing like the marathon sessions needed for some of "The biggest lie" videos.

" class="bbc_link" target="_blank" rel="noopener noreferrer">

I found it quite worth watching, though I could be classed as seriously biased!

He didn't explain how and why curvature formula (8 inch * miles squared) is erroneous-unusable. He is saying over and over again that we are confusing curvature formula with the line of sight. What is that supposed to mean? How can you see something if there is bulge of water between you and the object you are looking at which (the bulge) is higher than the object which you can see but which you shouldn't be able to see if this high bulge of water existed right in the middle - half a way between you and the object which you observe??? So, regardless whether the earth is oblate spheroid or not, this guy is a complete idiot, no doubts about that! He proved only that he is a complete idiot, nothing else!

He shows his work in the video when he films his notebook.  He states in the video he did that so the viewer could verify it.

It has been my observation that many FE videos and evidence provided fail to do the calculations correctly, leave out some important data and/or post wrong distances.

I will use the Bishop Experiment as an example used as evidence in the wiki:

1.  The distance is off by 10 miles

2.  It is rather questionable the observer height was 20" above sea level. The location stated where the observer was a rocky shore with a drop off.  I have been in the area and I recall it being at least a 4-5 foot drop off.

I honestly cannot believe how this is even debatable! You need to watch the video again and again.  I have a better idea; why don't YOU get yourself certified as a Geodetic Surveyor and explain how his calculations DO NOT work. Keep in mind that Geodetic Surveying has been conducted for 300 years and has been the basis for mapping our earth over and over again.  You claim these people have all faked their calculations to make the earth appear as a globe...yet these calculations are indisputable?  Do you really claim curvature of the earth is not measurable via Geodetic Surveying?  You clearly do not understand the concepts presented in the video yet you have the nerve to question his calculations.  Why don't you go out and buy your own surveying equipment and learn to use it. Line of sight and "Horizontal" are NOT the same thing.  He explains exactly why the formula presented by FE'ers does not work in this case AND he proved in two cased that curvature exists using his own equipment. 

Sad, sad, sad people...

You are intelligent correct ?
You know TRIG right ??
You know basic curvature x 8 mass ?
Correct ?
So try and disprove a factual mathematical equation on your round earth stance ok ??
= Horizon distance 3 MilesHidden Amount
= 2166.46 Feet'Bulge'
Height = 600.16Working (in feet, unless noted):
Distance d = (Miles*5280), d = 316800
Radius of Earth r = 3959*5280,
r = 20903520 Distance to horizon,
a = sqrt((r+h)*(r+h) - r*r),
a = 15838.001010228532
Distance to horizon (in miles) = a/5280 = 2.9996214034523736
Amount obscured x = sqrt(a*a - 2*a*d + d*d + r*r)-r,
x = 2166.4636212289333
The following is the amount obscured calculated using slightly more complex trig
And assuming the 'distance' is the distance across the surface of the earth
This is more accurate for large distances and heights
But essentially the same for distances under 100 miles
True obscured x = r/cos( d/r - asin(sqrt(h*(2*r+h)) / (r+h) ) ) - r x = 2166.7630795799196 'Bulge'
b = r-sqrt(4*r*r - d*d)/2,
b = 600.1601690091193
Bulge is the amount of rise of the earth's curve from a straight line connecting two points on the surface

This means this video and any others cant exist the Chicago skyline would be in fact 2166 feet below the horizon !

Conclusion no curve ! ****************************************************************************************************


Suppose that the earth is a sphere with a radius of 3,963 miles. If you are at a point P on the earth's surface and move tangent to the surface a distance of 1 mile then you can form a right angled triangle.

-Looking over a distance of 1 mile, we can use the theorem of Pythagoras:

a2 = 3,963^2 + 1^2 = 15,705,370

and when we square root that figure we get a = 3,963.000126 miles

Thus your position is 3,963.000126 - 3,963 = 0.000126 miles above the surface of the earth.

0.000126 miles = 12 in * 5,280 ft * 0.000126 mi = 7.98 inches

Hence after one mile the earth drops approximately 8 inches.

-Ergo, looking across 30 miles the Pythagorean theorem becomes:

a2 = 3963^2 + 30^2 = 15,706,269

and when we square root that figure we get a = 3,963.113549 miles

Thus your position is 3,963.113549 - 3,963 = 0.113549 miles above the surface of the earth

0.113549 miles = 5,280 ft * 0.113549 mi = 599.53872 feet

Hence after 30 miles the earth drops approximately 600 feet.

ON TOP OF THAT (THIS IS GOING TO BLOW YOUR MIND) :



EXACT FORMULA IS HERE :

http://www.zaslike.com/files/7w8b10cxrexp48udmv7w.jpg

A SIMPLIFIED FORMULA  is from spherical geometry: n miles x n miles x 8 inches=6x6x8=288inches = 24 feet.
The drop down has to finally make a full circle and not a slope.
If the circumference of the earth ball on the equator is 24 902 miles,
the 1/4 of that distance from point A to point B is 6 225 miles and 1/4 on the surface of the ball makes a 90 degree angle between point A and point B (through the center of the ball) which means that the drop down from the level of point A to the level of point B equals the radius of the earth=3 963 miles.

That is a HUGE drop down on the distance of just 6 225 miles!!! HUGE. It should be very easily observable but it is NOT! Lol

And finally, the distance to Chicago skyline from which Joshua has taken his picture = 60 miles indeed...watch : http://www.abc57.com/story/28925566/mirage-of-chicago-skyline-seen-from-michigan-shoreli

The curvature of the earth has already been proven time and time again through Geodetic Surveying. Period. This has been proven over and over again by thousands of upon thousands (huge understatement) of surveyors on multiple continents over three centuries. 

In reference to the "Chicago Skyline" which should not be seen; The skyline is a visual aberration and the structures are artificially elongated which is an artifact of the mirage.  Secondly, do your homework.  The distance across the lake is ONLY 35-40 miles, not 60 miles. 60 miles is the distance you would have to drive around the bottom of the lake, so you have been discredited for falsifying facts.  Thirdly you cannot see the pier and the 150ft ferris wheel and many other structures near water level which are hidden from view because of the CURVED earth.  Basically, the photo proves a curvature so thank you.

You are intelligent correct ?

For the purpose of this discussion, let's say yes.

You know TRIG right ??

Yes.

You know basic curvature x 8 mass ?

What??

Correct ?

Let's say two out of three.

So try and disprove a factual mathematical equation on your round earth stance ok ??

< gibberish >

Would you mind re-posting that mess so that the formatting isn't completely scrambled?

This means this video and any others cant exist the Chicago skyline would be in fact 2166 feet below the horizon !

Conclusion no curve ! ****************************************************************************************************

Conclusion: cikljamas doesn't know what he's talking about.

You're down to two out of four now, even ignoring the illegible text. That's a failing grade.

Suppose that the earth is a sphere with a radius of 3,963 miles. If you are at a point P on the earth's surface and move tangent to the surface a distance of 1 mile then you can form a right angled triangle.

-Looking over a distance of 1 mile, we can use the theorem of Pythagoras:

a2 = 3,963^2 + 1^2 = 15,705,370

and when we square root that figure we get a = 3,963.000126 miles

Thus your position is 3,963.000126 - 3,963 = 0.000126 miles above the surface of the earth.

0.000126 miles = 12 in * 5,280 ft * 0.000126 mi = 7.98 inches

Hence after one mile the earth drops approximately 8 inches.

-Ergo, looking across 30 miles the Pythagorean theorem becomes:

a2 = 3963^2 + 30^2 = 15,706,269

and when we square root that figure we get a = 3,963.113549 miles

Thus your position is 3,963.113549 - 3,963 = 0.113549 miles above the surface of the earth

0.113549 miles = 5,280 ft * 0.113549 mi = 599.53872 feet

Hence after 30 miles the earth drops approximately 600 feet.

ON TOP OF THAT (THIS IS GOING TO BLOW YOUR MIND) :

http://i.imgur.com/9U2g34Z.jpg

What's so special about Rowbotham's florid bloviating? That's just a statement in fancy language restating the 8 inches per mile approximation. It seems to have nothing to do with the rather elaborate figure at the top of the image.

EXACT FORMULA IS HERE :

http://www.zaslike.com/files/7w8b10cxrexp48udmv7w.jpg

That formula is exact if you remember two things:
1) The distances are the lengths of the sightlines, not distances measured along the surface of the earth. For small distances this is not a big factor, but after a few hundred miles, it becomes significant.

2) the tilde (~) in the formulas means "approximately equals". Everything to the right of the tilde is an approximation, not exact. Again, only for short distances is this is not significant.

A SIMPLIFIED FORMULA  is from spherical geometry: n miles x n miles x 8 inches=6x6x8=288inches = 24 feet.
The drop down has to finally make a full circle and not a slope.
If the circumference of the earth ball on the equator is 24 902 miles,
the 1/4 of that distance from point A to point B is 6 225 miles and 1/4 on the surface of the ball makes a 90 degree angle between point A and point B (through the center of the ball) which means that the drop down from the level of point A to the level of point B equals the radius of the earth=3 963 miles.

That is a HUGE drop down on the distance of just 6 225 miles!!! HUGE. It should be very easily observable but it is NOT! Lol

It's not visible because most of it is below the horizon. I'm not seeing the point

But you are completely losing touch with what you're talking about. If you're talking about distance measured along the surface, the simplification and the Pythagorean solution are not adequate approximations when you're getting anywhere near one-quarter of the way around the circumference.

The simplified 8 inches times distance in miles squared formula says the "drop" is 4,893 miles for an object at a distance of 6,225 miles, not the 3,963 miles you claim. That formula is just an approximation that gives reasonably close answers only up to a few hundred miles, even when it's applied correctly, which it seldom seems to be.

The actual "drop" 1/4 of the way around the Earth would be, in fact, infinite. Why? Because here you're talking about measuring the distance along the surface, 1/4 of the way around the circumference, not the straight-line distance from the observer to the target.

h (minimum height of an object to see) would have to be

h = R_e ( 1 / cos(d/R_e) - 1)

where R_e is the radius of the Earth, and d is the distance along the surface between observer and target, and assuming that the observer has no height above the surface himself. Also, note that the argument of the cosine function is radians, not degrees; if you want to use degrees, take the cosine of d/R_e * 180° / pi.

Note what happens when the observer and target are one-quarter of the circumference of the Earth (c) apart:

c = 2 * pi * R_e
d = c / 4
d = 2 * pi * R_e / 4 = pi * R_e / 2

so:

cos(d / R_e) = cos(pi * R_e / (2 R_e) = cos (pi / 2)

Converting from radians to degrees, if desired:

pi / 2 * (180° / pi) = 90°.

If you remember from your trig, cosine(pi / 2) = cosine(90°) = 0

Which causes a divide by zero error. Mathematicians don't like saying 1/0 is infinity, but as the distance d approaches 1/4 circumference, the 1/cos(d/R_e) term approaches infinity.

And finally, the distance to Chicago skyline from which Joshua has taken his picture = 60 miles indeed...watch : http://www.abc57.com/story/28925566/mirage-of-chicago-skyline-seen-from-michigan-shoreli

Did you miss the word "mirage" in the link? For mirages, the purely geometric formulas don't apply.

Maybe you should watch the video in the OP again. You seem to have completely missed every point the narrator was making. Pay particular attention to the section about the Geodetic Horizon (around 18 minutes in, I think[nb]This is why I think videos are a clumsy way to convey information. Unless they're accompanied with slides, or at least a transcript, they are difficult to reference.[/nb]).
 

"Crickets chirping..."  Nice neutralization of nonsense.  I swear these people are so disingenuous.  They are so absorbed in their deviant fantasies that they can't even look at the facts.  That Chicago skyline video has already bee explained, not to mention that FE'ers continually misstate that it's 60 miles and not 35 miles across Lake Michigan.  Secondly they omit the fact that the entire shoreline and monuments as high as 150 ft are not viewable.  Completely without scruples...

"Crickets chirping..."  Nice neutralization of nonsense.  I swear these people are so disingenuous.  They are so absorbed in their deviant fantasies that they can't even look at the facts.  That Chicago skyline video has already bee explained, not to mention that FE'ers continually misstate that it's 60 miles and not 35 miles across Lake Michigan.  Secondly they omit the fact that the entire shoreline and monuments as high as 150 ft are not viewable.  Completely without scruples...

You are surprised that crickets are chirping at cikljamas' post? 

The crickets are still chirping waiting for cikljamas to reply.  It seems he has gone back into hibernation, only to eventually start posting again someday and repeat all of his same flawed arguments.

Crickets "still" chirping...

Crickets "still" chirping...

The earth IS a globe!
I have shows numerous times with and without surveyors that the dimentsions of the REAL EARTH will not fit on a PLANE SURFACE!


If you done believe surveys, maps, or GPS, get someone who LIVES close to there to MEASURE the length of a degree and multiply by 360 - TOO HARD. You WILL learn anything by sitting aroud denying everything.

So let's say the distance across lake Michigan is 35 miles.... there still should be over 300 feet of curve..... so why are we seeing almost all of the skyline?

So let's say the distance across lake Michigan is 35 miles.... there still should be over 300 feet of curve..... so why are we seeing almost all of the skyline?

If it's not a mirage, then why does it appear upside down sometimes? And not at all at other times?

Same reason the sun appears to go under the horizon but clouds don't. Magic light.

Ah, yes. Bendy light, by another name, if I'm not mistaken. Even light conspires to make the Earth look round. It's weird how that could happen... I mean, are photons conscious and able to discuss with each other when, where, and by how much they are supposed to bend to keep up the illusion? Maybe NASA, ESA, unaffiliated scientists, and surveyors, and anyone else professing to have evidence that the Earth is round are all just victims of EVIL, MANIPULATIVE, LYING PHOTONS!!!

The boat captain in the video where the mirage was disproven didn't mention it ever being upside down,so it's a Photoshop.

What is the shill response to that video??