W Winckler, Engineer

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W Winckler, Engineer
« on: February 15, 2016, 01:33:06 PM »
Hey there, everyone!

I'm a bit of a newcomer to the Flat Earth Society, and have a question based on some of my research.

I've seen many people quoting "W. Winckler" from the "Earth Review," but all of my internet searches on either come up blank, with only others quoting him or arguing against him. My question is, does he/she really exist? If people could provide links that would be helpful.


Re: W Winckler, Engineer
« Reply #1 on: February 15, 2016, 03:13:45 PM »
Does this engineer say that GR says gravity isn't real. If they do then they're a member here.
« Last Edit: February 16, 2016, 07:20:21 AM by Empirical »

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rabinoz

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Re: W Winckler, Engineer
« Reply #2 on: February 15, 2016, 04:02:33 PM »
Hey there, everyone!

I'm a bit of a newcomer to the Flat Earth Society, and have a question based on some of my research.

I've seen many people quoting "W. Winckler" from the "Earth Review," but all of my internet searches on either come up blank, with only others quoting him or arguing against him. My question is, does he/she really exist? If people could provide links that would be helpful.

Read all about it!
Quote from: The Atlantean Conspiracy
from: http://www.atlanteanconspiracy.com/2015/05/architects-engineers-for-flat-earth.html
Engineer, W. Winckler, wrote into the Earth Review October 1893 regarding the Earth’s supposed curvature, stating, “As an engineer of many years standing, I saw that this absurd allowance is only permitted in school books.  No engineer would dream of allowing anything of the kind.  I have projected many miles of railways and many more of canals and the allowance has not even been thought of, much less allowed for.  This allowance for curvature means this - that it is 8” for the first mile of a canal, and increasing at the ratio by the square of the distance in miles; thus a small navigable canal for boats, say 30 miles long, will have, by the above rule an allowance for curvature of 600 feet.  Think of that and then please credit engineers as not being quite such fools.  Nothing of the sort is allowed.  We no more think of allowing 600 feet for a line of 30 miles of railway or canal, than of wasting our time trying to square the circle”

Now you know! Real up to date bloke - well more up to date that "The Earth is not a Globe"!

Re: W Winckler, Engineer
« Reply #3 on: February 20, 2016, 07:54:37 PM »
Quote from: The Atlantean Conspiracy
from: http://www.atlanteanconspiracy.com/2015/05/architects-engineers-for-flat-earth.html
Engineer, W. Winckler, wrote into the Earth Review October 1893 regarding the Earth’s supposed curvature, stating, “As an engineer of many years standing, I saw that this absurd allowance is only permitted in school books.  No engineer would dream of allowing anything of the kind.  I have projected many miles of railways and many more of canals and the allowance has not even been thought of, much less allowed for.  This allowance for curvature means this - that it is 8” for the first mile of a canal, and increasing at the ratio by the square of the distance in miles; thus a small navigable canal for boats, say 30 miles long, will have, by the above rule an allowance for curvature of 600 feet.  Think of that and then please credit engineers as not being quite such fools.  Nothing of the sort is allowed.  We no more think of allowing 600 feet for a line of 30 miles of railway or canal, than of wasting our time trying to square the circle”

Now you know! Real up to date bloke - well more up to date that "The Earth is not a Globe"!

I'm not sure that constitutes proof of their existence, seeing as how that's just another person quoting them. I'm looking more for things such as birth dates (or publication dates, for the "Earth Review"), and perhaps links to unbiased sources as well, seeing as how Mr. Eric Dubay here lists his full-time job as "exposing the New World Order."  Thanks!

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Re: W Winckler, Engineer
« Reply #4 on: February 21, 2016, 09:22:58 AM »
I thought Dugay was a yoga instructor, lol. 

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rabinoz

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Re: W Winckler, Engineer
« Reply #5 on: February 22, 2016, 04:56:41 AM »
I thought Dugay was a yoga instructor, lol.
Are you sure you don't mean Yogi's instructor.

Re: W Winckler, Engineer
« Reply #6 on: February 22, 2016, 05:55:25 PM »
I thought Dugay was a yoga instructor, lol.

He actually lists himself as both. In the link that rabinoz so kindly provided, on the right of the page you can find himself stating: I'm a 33 year-old American living in Thailand where I teach Yoga and Wing Chun part-time while exposing the New World Order full-time.

Not exactly the most unbias source.
Just saying.

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Rayzor

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Re: W Winckler, Engineer
« Reply #7 on: February 22, 2016, 06:37:14 PM »
I thought Dugay was a yoga instructor, lol.

He actually lists himself as both. In the link that rabinoz so kindly provided, on the right of the page you can find himself stating: I'm a 33 year-old American living in Thailand where I teach Yoga and Wing Chun part-time while exposing the New World Order full-time.

Not exactly the most unbias source.
Just saying.

Those quotations are from a publication  Called  "Earth Not a Globe Review"   A monthly flat earth magazine.

A collection can be found here.
http://www.theflatearthsociety.org/library/pamphlets/

Pretty much the 19th century version of a flat earth forum.

Others appeared to have trouble locating the elusive Mr W.Winckler,  A letter to the Editor in the Earth Review asks the same question..



http://www.theflatearthsociety.org/library/pamphlets/Earth%20Not%20A%20Globe%20Review,%20The%20(Vol%204,%20April-June-July-Sept%201897).pdf

Maybe W.Winckler was an early type of alt.  :)


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markjo

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Re: W Winckler, Engineer
« Reply #8 on: February 22, 2016, 07:12:55 PM »
From what I've seen, early flat earth literature seems to be full of similar "authorities" who are only identified by first initial, last name and some important sounding title.
Science is what happens when preconception meets verification.
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Besides, perhaps FET is a conspiracy too.
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Rayzor

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Re: W Winckler, Engineer
« Reply #9 on: February 22, 2016, 07:48:37 PM »
He signs himself as  Mr G.W.Winckler  is a letter expressing interest in Lady Blount's  Bedford Level Experiments.

http://www.theflatearthsociety.org/library/pamphlets/Earth,%20The%20(Vol%20V,%20Nos.%2052-53).pdf

There is a  G.W.Winckler who worked as a Railway Engineer in Canada,  and that fits the general dates for our Mr.W.Winckler.
He may have been in Manitoba in 1894 http://www.mocavo.co.uk/The-Historical-and-Scientific-Society-of-Manitoba-Microform-Annual-Report-for-the-Year-1893/109603/10

Mentioned here http://the-uncredibles.tumblr.com/post/130140086164/200-pensb-7-12-railroads-and-canals 

Also listed as a member of the society in Lady Blount's book  "Flat or Spherical"  http://library.tfes.org/library/Flat%20or%20Spherical%20-%2000%20-%20Intro.pdf

So,  I conclude  G.W.Winckler was in fact real,  probably a railway engineer in Manitoba Canada,  might have emigrated from the UK,  and was an active member in the flat earth societies of the time.   


« Last Edit: February 22, 2016, 11:40:02 PM by Rayzor »
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Rayzor

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Re: W Winckler, Engineer
« Reply #10 on: February 22, 2016, 07:55:20 PM »
Further confirmation that it's Mr. G.W.Winckler we should be looking for can be found here
http://www.cantab.net/users/michael.behrend/ebooks/PlaneTruth/pages/Chapter_04.html

Quote
Ever since Rowbotham, the foundation “proof” of flat-earthism has been that the surface of still water is level.  Zetetics generally refused to recognize that the word could mean a curved surface of equal gravitational potential, and they insisted that every occurrence of “level” referred to a flat surface.  Hampden had recognized that if anyone had practical experience with the earth’s alleged curvature, it would be those who laid out railroads and canals.  In the pages of The Earth; Scripturally, Rationally, and Practically Described, he had asked editorially, “Where are the engineers?” In the pages of Earth Review, the zetetic civil engineers responded, rising to reject the curvature of the earth.  One G. W. Winckler, Assoc. M.I.C.E., [note 4.13]  wrote as follows:

As an engineer of many years experience, I say that this absurd allowance is only permitted in school books.  No Engineer would dream of allowing anything of the kind.  I have projected many miles of railways, and many more of canals, and the allowance has not even been thought of, much less allowed for.  The allowance for curvature means this—that it is 8 inches for the first mile of a canal, and increasing at the ratio by the square of the distance in miles; thus a small navigable canal for boats, say 30 miles long, will have, by the above rule, an allowance for curvature of 600 feet!  Think of that, and then please credit engineers as not being quite such fools.  Nothing of the sort is allowed.  I must, however, state that college astronomers have made the student engineer to think that in his method of levelling what is known as the “backsight” cancels any curvature by his “foresight” and so on.  It is only a theory … [ref. 4.25]

Winckler’s statement seemed, to the zetetics at least, to confirm a note contributed to the second issue of Earth Review by Isaac Smith:

Standing order 14 House of Commons, denies convexity.  There is no allowance to be made for it.  None in making the Suez Canal, 80 miles long.  None in making the Canal in China, 700 miles long.  None in making the Manchester Ship Canal; working from a level datum line no allowance is required at all. [ref. 4.26]

Smith didn’t give a source for this statement, but it was endlessly repeated in zetetic publications to prove that engineering projects funded by the House of Commons were proceeded on zetetic principles.

M.I.C.E   is  Member of the Institute of Civil Engineers.

According to the Institutes membership lists,  A George Walter Winckler was elected to the Institute on 5th December 1871  Location was the Toronto Post Office.  He also appears in other listings as being employed for a time in Bombay.

His quotation was later abbreviated and his initials gotten mangled by A.Hottentot in the Earth not a globe Review  in 1893, the mistaken version has been quoted many times since.

Which leaves us to wonder why George Walter Winckler got it wrong,  he failed to recognize that taking a backsight and foresight from a mid point,  the technique used to survey railway lines and canals is done expressly to cancel out  the earth's curvature for the purpose of establishing a level sight line when doing geodetic surveys.

Refer to the backsight method of establishing an elevation from a midpoint, and cancelling the curvature as explained towards the end of this video.

#" class="bbc_link" target="_blank" rel="noopener noreferrer">! No longer available

« Last Edit: February 22, 2016, 09:07:09 PM by Rayzor »
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Rayzor

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Re: W Winckler, Engineer
« Reply #11 on: February 22, 2016, 11:54:51 PM »
More details of his life and work.

http://www.mhs.mb.ca/docs/people/winckler_gw.shtml

He was anti-vaccinations, (no surprise there) and used to preach on main street  opposite the city post office.   He seemed to be focussed on immortality in his preachings.



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MelioraCogito

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Re: W Winckler, Engineer
« Reply #12 on: April 30, 2016, 01:09:41 AM »
[Winckler's] quotation was later abbreviated and his initials gotten mangled by A.Hottentot in the Earth not a globe Review  in 1893, the mistaken version has been quoted many times since.

What is interesting to note in reading the link is The EARTH–NOT A GLOBE–REVIEW was a publication by the Universal Zetetic Society (UZS) of 1892, it was first published in January 1893. Thus, Winckler's article/statement is posted not in a professional peer reviewed journal, but in a biased periodical of no recognized standing outside the flat-Earth community.

It is essentially preaching to the choir and therefore as an argument in support of the flat-Earth conjecture, it is without merit or validity as a qualitative source of evidence.
« Last Edit: April 30, 2016, 01:56:17 AM by MelioraCogito »
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Re: W Winckler, Engineer
« Reply #13 on: May 01, 2016, 02:53:12 PM »
[Winckler's] quotation was later abbreviated and his initials gotten mangled by A.Hottentot in the Earth not a globe Review  in 1893, the mistaken version has been quoted many times since.

What is interesting to note in reading the link is The EARTH–NOT A GLOBE–REVIEW was a publication by the Universal Zetetic Society (UZS) of 1892, it was first published in January 1893. Thus, Winckler's article/statement is posted not in a professional peer reviewed journal, but in a biased periodical of no recognized standing outside the flat-Earth community.

It is essentially preaching to the choir and therefore as an argument in support of the flat-Earth conjecture, it is without merit or validity as a qualitative source of evidence.
Are you suggesting that we are to have our work peer reviewed by non-peers?

It is ridiculous to claim the UZS (later renamed the Flat Earth Society by Shenton) would dare lie about such things. The community at the time would have torn them apart.
The illusion is shattered if we ask what goes on behind the scenes.