Does Australia exist?

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rabinoz

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Re: Does Australia exist?
« Reply #30 on: February 05, 2016, 11:04:42 PM »
I know Australia exists, I live here, but I am wondering if I exist, since no one saw my post :
http://www.theflatearthsociety.org/forum/index.php?topic=65756.msg1755255#msg1755255.
But, I do know the recipe for boiled Cockatoo!  Ingredients needed are only one smooth flat rock and a freshly plucked White Cockatoo.
Besides, anyone reckonin' Oz ain't fair dinkum's a few roos short in the top paddock.
That's disgusting!!! Now I'm convince Australia exist. Who else eats like that?
Don't judge it till you've read the recipe!
You put the Cockatoo and smooth flat rock in a billy of boiling water and boil till the rock is tender.
Then you discard the Cockatoo and eat the rock!

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rabinoz

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Re: Does Australia exist?
« Reply #31 on: February 05, 2016, 11:12:07 PM »
Foster's. Its Australian for Beer.
Come on, what about XXXX!
Not that I drink either - mind you, I think that's almost unAustralian - whatever that means!

Re: Does Australia exist?
« Reply #32 on: February 05, 2016, 11:37:23 PM »
The philosophers will tell you there is no such thing as either 100% nor 0% certainty.....just extremely likely or unlikely.
So for all of you that seem certain that Australia exists then you are simply wrong...more correctly you believe it is highly likely that Australia exists.

However, despite whatever the philosophers say, VB tastes like the proverbial cat's, that I am certain of.
Coopers Ale any day

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Scroto Gaggins

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Re: Does Australia exist?
« Reply #33 on: February 06, 2016, 12:01:01 AM »
The philosophers will tell you there is no such thing as either 100% nor 0% certainty.....just extremely likely or unlikely.
So for all of you that seem certain that Australia exists then you are simply wrong...more correctly you believe it is highly likely that Australia exists.

However, despite whatever the philosophers say, VB tastes like the proverbial cat's, that I am certain of.
Coopers Ale any day
Carlton Mid though.
They are taking the hobbits to Isengard.

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rabinoz

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Re: Does Australia exist?
« Reply #34 on: February 06, 2016, 12:15:39 AM »
The philosophers will tell you there is no such thing as either 100% nor 0% certainty.....just extremely likely or unlikely.
So for all of you that seem certain that Australia exists then you are simply wrong...more correctly you believe it is highly likely that Australia exists.

However, despite whatever the philosophers say, VB tastes like the proverbial cat's, that I am certain of.
Coopers Ale any day
Stick to Queensland stuff, forget Victoria, unless you're in the Chardonnay set!
PS I think, therefore I am! hence I think that the probability of the existence of Australia is (1 - delta) where delta approachs zero.

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dispute

Re: Does Australia exist?
« Reply #35 on: February 06, 2016, 12:50:11 AM »
I live in Australia

Re: Does Australia exist?
« Reply #36 on: February 06, 2016, 01:57:19 AM »
I live in Australia


Oh Grasshopper, where do we start?

What do each of these mean and how can you prove it?

"I"
"live"
"in"
"Australia"

Much harder than you think!

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dispute

Re: Does Australia exist?
« Reply #37 on: February 06, 2016, 02:02:24 AM »
I live in Perth WA, come and visit me.

You guys have absolutely no understanding of science at all do you

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dispute

Re: Does Australia exist?
« Reply #38 on: February 06, 2016, 02:12:07 AM »
Its 6pm in WA Aus, was 41c today.

I am talking to a friend in the united states at this very moment.
It is 5 am over there and was -12c.

You guys cannot be this ignorant and have such little faith in humans as a species, in the third century BC Eratosthenes calculated the circumfrence of the earth to within 10% of todays accepted value.

We have come so far since then
« Last Edit: February 06, 2016, 02:14:05 AM by dispute »

Re: Does Australia exist?
« Reply #39 on: February 06, 2016, 02:14:47 AM »
Yes it exists....I've been there! The question you should be asking is does the ice wall exist?
Answer A resounding no as there is no evidence. Plenty for Australia and none for the Ice wall

Re: Does Australia exist?
« Reply #40 on: February 06, 2016, 02:44:55 AM »
I live in Australia


Oh Grasshopper, where do we start?

What do each of these mean and how can you prove it?

"I"
"live"
"in"
"Australia"

Much harder than you think!

Let me try (I don't live in Australia, but let's assume I do).
That which thinks the thoughts I call "mine" is being affected by something that does not think these thoughts in ways that are consistent with the theory that it resides in a physical body which resides in an area commonly referred to as Australia.

Of course you could always fit more recursion in there. But I think the important bits are the Definition of the self and being affected by something apart from it.

Re: Does Australia exist?
« Reply #41 on: February 06, 2016, 03:19:03 AM »
But those thoughts you call "mine", are they innate or a product of your senses?
If they are not innate, are they yours?

And what does it mean to live? A residence? Or a heartbeat, consciousness or both?
What about that small interval, usually just before death, when the heart stops beating but there is still enough blood flow such that the brain still has consciousness. At exactly this point in time, with consciousness but no heartbeat is the person alive and therefore living?
Or those who have a heartbeat but no apparent consciousness?
Or a myriad of other combinations of reduced consciousness or artificially maintained cardiovascular function?
When does an embryo gain consciousness?
What if virtual reality was so advanced that you had no idea that you were even wearing the goggles?

And how do you know it's called Australia apart from what you're told?
Simply on the basis of that's what everyone else calls it?
How could you verify this for yourself?
Are your beliefs based around statistics or mythical "certainties"?

To deconstruct:
1. I have no idea what "I" truly means
2. I have no idea what "live" truly means
3. I have no idea what it truly means to be "in"
4. I am told that the ground beneath my feet constitutes a land mass called "Australia" even though it is very difficult for me to confirm this for myself, and I acknowledge that it has had different names in the past and is constantly evolving

So therefore, I'll give myself about a 0.75 out of 4 in terms of understanding the 4 words "I live in Australia"

Anyone "certain" the world is flat or a globe?

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dispute

Re: Does Australia exist?
« Reply #42 on: February 06, 2016, 03:29:57 AM »
I'll give myself about a 0.75 out of 4 in terms of understanding the 4 words "I live in Australia"

You wouldve struggled a bit in year two comprehension in Australia

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Slemon

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Re: Does Australia exist?
« Reply #43 on: February 06, 2016, 03:50:55 AM »
Prove Australia isn't faked.
Paid shills to claim to live there, a few faked photos, a set-up somewhere in the Mojave Desert to fake it...

Re: Does Australia exist?
« Reply #44 on: February 06, 2016, 03:59:11 AM »
But those thoughts you call "mine", are they innate or a product of your senses?
If they are not innate, are they yours?

The question doesn't compute. What they are and what they are the product of are two different perspectives, both can be true at the same time. To wit, one question asks to describe a current state, the other to explain it by naming it's causes.

All that I can know a priori is that I think and therefore something thinks. Thoughts belong to that which thinks them, and therefore what I think are my thoughts, irrelevant of what the "I" is. If the thoughts weren't mine I wouldn't be thinking them.

And what does it mean to live? A residence? Or a heartbeat, consciousness or both?

Living is an empirical term, it only applies to the empirical world. Consciousness just is. In the context of the quote, "I live in" simply meant "I currently reside in" - it's an informal use of the word. The actual definition of living doesn't really come into it, and we don't have to use the word.

What about that small interval, usually just before death, when the heart stops beating but there is still enough blood flow such that the brain still has consciousness. At exactly this point in time, with consciousness but no heartbeat is the person alive and therefore living?
Or those who have a heartbeat but no apparent consciousness?
Or a myriad of other combinations of reduced consciousness or artificially maintained cardiovascular function?

As far as I am aware, death is generally defined as the complete failure of all functions of the brain. But that's not a philosophical question, definitions are just categories, we can make them up however we want.

When does an embryo gain consciousness?

I don't know. It's a difficult question because it depends on whether or not we recognize the embryo as fully human. We assume other things have consciousness if they look and act like we do, and if we can communicate with them. We recognize the embryo belongs to our species, but it doesn't act like we do, and we cannot effectively communicate with it.

Perhaps you can offer some thoughts?

What if virtual reality was so advanced that you had no idea that you were even wearing the goggles?

Yeah, what if?

Not trying to be facetious here, it's a honest question: Would it matter? Would the world be less real if it is simulated? Would you be less consicous? We only know that we cannot know what the world beyond our senses looks like. It's pointless to speculate about it.


And how do you know it's called Australia apart from what you're told?

I don't, but that's kind of the definition of a name, isn't it? If it's called Australia, then it's name is Australia. Names have no inherent value, they're merely tools for communication. There is no need to verify them or anything else as long as the other person knows what you refer to.

Are your beliefs based around statistics or mythical "certainties"?

Statistics, yes, certainities no. Statistics are a tool of empirical science and therefore provide information about the world as it appears to humans. And since we never step out of ourselves, that's all the information we need to make decisions.

Anyone "certain" the world is flat or a globe?

I am certain that the empirical world is a globe. What shape it actually has, no-one knows, but that doesn't really matter. The point of empirical knowledge is to provide predictions about the result of your actions. This doesn't require it to be either objective (in the sense that it's not limited to humans) or unchanging.

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JerkFace

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Re: Does Australia exist?
« Reply #45 on: February 06, 2016, 04:11:54 AM »
Prove Australia isn't faked.
Paid shills to claim to live there, a few faked photos, a set-up somewhere in the Mojave Desert to fake it...

I'm convinced Australia doesn't exist, and now if only I can convince the Tax office,   ( ATO,  to you ignorant peasants)  that Australia doesn't really exist.  I'm home free.

The Mojave desert social scene,  here I come.   Stock the fridge,  it's going to be a long night,

Stop gilding the pickle, you demisexual aromantic homoflexible snowflake.

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Scroto Gaggins

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Re: Does Australia exist?
« Reply #46 on: February 06, 2016, 04:25:31 AM »
Prove Australia isn't faked.
Paid shills to claim to live there, a few faked photos, a set-up somewhere in the Mojave Desert to fake it...
1. The indigenous peoples native to Australia are more related to Melanesians than native Americans.
2. 334 species of marsupial live in the Australasian area, while only one lives in the US.
3. One of the reasons for convict settlement in Australia was that the American colonies revolted. Why would the UK send the convicts to an area that would by 1850 or so be under American control?
4. Different plant species.
5. Presence of a monarch.
6. Different seasons to the US. Christmas is 40+ degrees C or 104 degrees F in Perth, for example.
7. Different Accents.
8. Declaring war at different times.
9. American bases in WW2 being in Australia.
10. Different sports.
11. Discovery of the West coast by the Dutch in the 1600's.
12. The presence of rainforest in Australia, and lack thereof in the Mojave.

There. A dozen proofs pulled right out of my arse.
They are taking the hobbits to Isengard.

Re: Does Australia exist?
« Reply #47 on: February 06, 2016, 04:38:26 AM »
1. The indigenous peoples native to Australia are more related to Melanesians than native Americans.

Yeah, so the geneticists have told you. Like that's proof of anything. The Holy bible says God made man, not some silly "DNA".

2. 334 species of marsupial live in the Australasian area, while only one lives in the US.

Those are all faked. Some taxidermists just sewed skin onto their bellies. Some are probably real but the US government wiped them out everywhere else in the US so their hoax wouldn't be revealed.

3. One of the reasons for convict settlement in Australia was that the American colonies revolted. Why would the UK send the convicts to an area that would by 1850 or so be under American control?

Have you been there personally? No? Then how can you know any of this is genuine?

4. Different plant species.

Different plant species can occur on the same continent.

5. Presence of a monarch.

So? Some old lady dresses up in fancy clothes every now and then and appears on television. Everyone could do that.

6. Different seasons to the US. Christmas is 40+ degrees C or 104 degrees F in Perth, for example.

Giant Mirrors. In the sky. They reflect light so it's warmer.

7. Different Accents.

Actors.

8. Declaring war at different times.

The history of the war is all wrong. It was a war against the Lizard people, and we lost. That's why we now live in this huge conspiracy and people are kept in the dark. WW2 was later invented to cover this up and make everyone feel good by telling them the good guys had won.

9. American bases in WW2 being in Australia.

See above.

10. Different sports.

There are no sports apart from american football. Also: Actors. Also: CGI.

11. Discovery of the West coast by the Dutch in the 1600's.

Lol, yeah, like that tiny country would be able to send people that far away.

12. The presence of rainforest in Australia, and lack thereof in the Mojave.

I'll have you know that the government has people who can plant trees.

So you see, there is no proof at all. All you have to do is ignore silly things like rationality and logic and you can expose the lies for what they really are!

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Scroto Gaggins

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Re: Does Australia exist?
« Reply #48 on: February 06, 2016, 05:43:56 AM »
1. The indigenous peoples native to Australia are more related to Melanesians than native Americans.

Yeah, so the geneticists have told you. Like that's proof of anything. The Holy bible says God made man, not some silly "DNA".

2. 334 species of marsupial live in the Australasian area, while only one lives in the US.

Those are all faked. Some taxidermists just sewed skin onto their bellies. Some are probably real but the US government wiped them out everywhere else in the US so their hoax wouldn't be revealed.

3. One of the reasons for convict settlement in Australia was that the American colonies revolted. Why would the UK send the convicts to an area that would by 1850 or so be under American control?

Have you been there personally? No? Then how can you know any of this is genuine?

4. Different plant species.

Different plant species can occur on the same continent.

5. Presence of a monarch.

So? Some old lady dresses up in fancy clothes every now and then and appears on television. Everyone could do that.

6. Different seasons to the US. Christmas is 40+ degrees C or 104 degrees F in Perth, for example.

Giant Mirrors. In the sky. They reflect light so it's warmer.

7. Different Accents.

Actors.

8. Declaring war at different times.

The history of the war is all wrong. It was a war against the Lizard people, and we lost. That's why we now live in this huge conspiracy and people are kept in the dark. WW2 was later invented to cover this up and make everyone feel good by telling them the good guys had won.

9. American bases in WW2 being in Australia.

See above.

10. Different sports.

There are no sports apart from american football. Also: Actors. Also: CGI.

11. Discovery of the West coast by the Dutch in the 1600's.

Lol, yeah, like that tiny country would be able to send people that far away.

12. The presence of rainforest in Australia, and lack thereof in the Mojave.

I'll have you know that the government has people who can plant trees.

So you see, there is no proof at all. All you have to do is ignore silly things like rationality and logic and you can expose the lies for what they really are!
As an Australian who is sleep deprived and up past his bedtime, I cannot determine whether this is sarcasm or not.
Plz help.
They are taking the hobbits to Isengard.

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Son of Orospu

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Re: Does Australia exist?
« Reply #49 on: February 06, 2016, 07:24:01 AM »
As far as I am aware, death is generally defined as the complete failure of all functions of the brain.

How do microorganisms die if they have no brain?  e.g. viri, bacteria, fungi, etc.  My hand sanitizer claims that it kills 99% oi them. 

Re: Does Australia exist?
« Reply #50 on: February 06, 2016, 09:19:14 AM »
As an Australian who is sleep deprived and up past his bedtime, I cannot determine whether this is sarcasm or not.
Plz help.

Well, it's no wonder really. If I were standing upside down all the time I suppose I'd be confused as well.

But it's easy to tell: If you really are just a tired Australian from actual Australia, it's sarcasm.
If you are a government paid shill it's all true.

As far as I am aware, death is generally defined as the complete failure of all functions of the brain.

How do microorganisms die if they have no brain?  e.g. viri, bacteria, fungi, etc.  My hand sanitizer claims that it kills 99% oi them. 

I should state that I used a common definition for the death of humans because all the questions were about humans.

For other ogranisms, it gets complicated. I am no expert, but I think we don't even have a well accepted definition of what is alive and what isn't in the realm of bacteria and viri (is that really the plural?). The simpler the organism gets, the less distinguishable they are from just any sustained chemical reaction. So I suppose those die when whatever chemical reaction they have that generates energy is irreversibly interrupted.

"Where does life start?" is an interesting question, but not half as interesting as "where does consciousness start?" Are we free to treat anything that doesn't show signs of human intelligence as biological machines or do we need a more nuanced approach?

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Slemon

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Re: Does Australia exist?
« Reply #51 on: February 06, 2016, 10:13:28 AM »
viri (is that really the plural?)
No, it's viruses. In Latin it'd be viri or vira, but more conventionally people use viruses.

Re: Does Australia exist?
« Reply #52 on: February 06, 2016, 12:39:22 PM »
See, told ya it was a much harder question than you gave it credit for.

Alas, but what is "certainty"?

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Son of Orospu

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Re: Does Australia exist?
« Reply #53 on: February 06, 2016, 10:42:29 PM »
viri (is that really the plural?)
No, it's viruses. In Latin it'd be viri or vira, but more conventionally people use viruses.

Latin is a dead language, but it has no brain.  How can this be? 

Re: Does Australia exist?
« Reply #54 on: February 07, 2016, 02:36:47 AM »
viri (is that really the plural?)
No, it's viruses. In Latin it'd be viri or vira, but more conventionally people use viruses.

Latin is a dead language, but it has no brain.  How can this be?

Really?
I see why people say all you do is troll and derail...

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Son of Orospu

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Re: Does Australia exist?
« Reply #55 on: February 07, 2016, 04:10:28 AM »
viri (is that really the plural?)
No, it's viruses. In Latin it'd be viri or vira, but more conventionally people use viruses.

Latin is a dead language, but it has no brain.  How can this be?

Really?
I see why people say all you do is troll and derail...

Latin is not a dead language?  ???

Re: Does Australia exist?
« Reply #56 on: February 07, 2016, 04:10:45 AM »
See, told ya it was a much harder question than you gave it credit for.

Alas, but what is "certainty"?

*Sigh*
There goes my hope of having an interesting conversation.

Anyways, why do you keep asking me for definitions? I could cite the dictionary, but I don't think that's helpful. Is there somewhere specific you want to lead this? Perhaps you are asking how we can know anything for certain?

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Scroto Gaggins

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Re: Does Australia exist?
« Reply #57 on: February 07, 2016, 05:35:04 AM »
viri (is that really the plural?)
No, it's viruses. In Latin it'd be viri or vira, but more conventionally people use viruses.

Latin is a dead language, but it has no brain.  How can this be?

Really?
I see why people say all you do is troll and derail...

Latin is not a dead language?  ???
Nah, It's just that what you said kinda was derailment.
They are taking the hobbits to Isengard.

Re: Does Australia exist?
« Reply #58 on: February 07, 2016, 08:50:25 PM »
See, told ya it was a much harder question than you gave it credit for.

Alas, but what is "certainty"?

*Sigh*
There goes my hope of having an interesting conversation.

Anyways, why do you keep asking me for definitions? I could cite the dictionary, but I don't think that's helpful. Is there somewhere specific you want to lead this? Perhaps you are asking how we can know anything for certain?


Got it Etchelion!
The statement "I live in Australia", implying that therefore Australia definitely exists (with absolute certainty) is by definition farcical.
Despite that, plenty of people on here make statements as if they are completely beyond doubt.
Two such examples are:
1. The earth is a globe
2. The earth is flat

Good to see you know your philosophical reasoning.
But without asking for a definition, what do you understand by certainty?
And does it exist?


Re: Does Australia exist?
« Reply #59 on: February 07, 2016, 10:01:17 PM »
The statement "I live in Australia", implying that therefore Australia definitely exists (with absolute certainty) is by definition farcical.

What's farcial is to assume that an informal statement about empirical facts somehow implies absolute certainity. The statement only implies Australia empirically exists.

Despite that, plenty of people on here make statements as if they are completely beyond doubt.
Two such examples are:
1. The earth is a globe
2. The earth is flat

Most people here are not philosophers and probably don't have the faintest clue about epistemology (which is sad, but still). It's dishonest to assume they are making a claim they don't even understand.

But without asking for a definition, what do you understand by certainty?
And does it exist?

Depends on the context. Within the context of empirical science, certainity means beyond reasonable doubt. That is there is no more inclusive or simpler theory which explains all the observations.

In the field of a-priori truths, certainity simply means the absence of any doubts. But since all a-priori truths are deductive, and formal logic only knows true or false, certainity is kind of a pointless term to use there. Nevertheless, it would be completely accurate to say that you know, with absolute certainity, that causality isn't observable and therefore must be a principle of thinking itself.

So yes, certainity does exist (though I don't like using the word "exist" here because that tends to mean "being a part of empirical reality").