Rockets cannot work in a Vacuum.

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rabinoz

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Re: Rockets cannot work in a Vacuum.
« Reply #1590 on: March 11, 2016, 01:34:05 AM »
The fact that pressure cannot travel upstream in sonic or super sonic flow is important in understanding how the choking of those nozzles work.
Yes; when there's pressure upstream.
But how can there be pressure upstream when there's a vacuum downstream?
Nothing you say makes sense; you have De Laval nozzles on the brain.
They are irrelevant, retard; a Finite system can't create pressure against an Infinite vacuum.
You still don't have a clue!
You ask " how can there be pressure upstream when there's a vacuum downstream?"
That is precisely why DeLaval nozzles are used! No wonder you don't like them. You just can't understand them. Just try a bit harder.

The "vacuum downstream" cannot propagate upstream against the supersonic flow in the nozzle throat (where the flow is sonic) right through to the exit (where the flow is super sonic), so your objection falls flat!

You must have noticed the shock waves in the exhaust stream your favourite Saturn Rockets - guess what they are from! Yes, the exhaust stream is super (or hyper) sonic. Anyone with any knowledge of super sonic flow will tell you the same thing that is what makes the big difference as the "sound barrier" is crossed.

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Papa Legba

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Re: Rockets cannot work in a Vacuum.
« Reply #1591 on: March 11, 2016, 01:48:54 AM »
You still don't have a clue!

No, that's you, strawman-obsessed stalker.

Read again:

Nothing you say makes sense; you have De Laval nozzles on the brain.

They are irrelevant, retard; a Finite system can't create pressure against an Infinite vacuum.

And rocket thrust is created at the nozzle Exit, NOT the throat or combustion chamber anyway.

Without atmospheric pressure at the Exit there will be no thrust.

Because you can't push on nothing.

It's all pretty simple stuff.

Put your strawman dolly away & stop channelling your fellow Australian disinfo-shill Kris de Valle, okay?

Toooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooodle-PIP, Loser!

I got Trolled & Shilled at the CIA Troll/Shill Society and now I feel EPIC!!!

Re: Rockets cannot work in a Vacuum.
« Reply #1592 on: March 11, 2016, 01:59:26 AM »
But how can there be pressure upstream when there's a vacuum downstream?

Agreed! How is it possible for a gas to get expelled out of the back of the nozzle in a vacuum at great speed, if it has a pressure? The gas itself MUST exhibit zero pressure. In other words, the huge, hot jet of gaseous flame and exhaust products is, at all times of its pathetic life-cycle, at zero pressure. That's right, the exhaust gas coming out of the back of a rocket engine is actually a VACUUM. Any other explanation is simply un-poss-ible, and in defiance of lysical phaws.

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a Finite system can't create pressure against an Infinite vacuum.

Exactly! That's how we know how all those billions of highly energised gas particles per cubic inch, at very high temperature, are not creating a pressure. They are creating a vacuum!

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Without atmospheric pressure at the Exit there will be no thrust.

OK, I'm kind of with you, but just explain to me again what the exhaust gases push on to make them exit the nozzle at extremely high velocity and zero pressure? Thanks!

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Because you can't push on nothing.

Agreed! I just need to be clear on exactly what the exhaust gases are pushing on before the zoom ever so speedily out of the back of the rocket, while under zero pressure (i.e. a vacuum). Just in case someone asks. Thanks Poppa!

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It's all pretty simple stuff.

I know! I can't understand how people don't get it.

Quote
Toooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooodle-PIP, Loser!

You tell 'em, Poppa!
I made up some completely random sh!te on the Flat Earth Society forum and now I feel completely and utterly EPIC!!!

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Papa Legba

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Re: Rockets cannot work in a Vacuum.
« Reply #1593 on: March 11, 2016, 02:25:53 AM »
^Butthurt sock-poopet spamming sickeningly humourless garbage.

^lol.

If the butthurt sock-poopet cannot understand that when there is ZERO pressure DOWNSTREAM, then ZERO pressure can be exerted UPSTREAM, there is nothing to be done with it.

The force-pairing that produces thrust in a rocket is created at the EXIT of the nozzle.

This is a FACT.

That force-pairing cannot be created without ambient (i.e. Atmospheric) pressure OUTSIDE the nozzle.

Ergo, a rocket cannot produce thrust without Atmosphere.

QED.

TOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOODLE-PIP, Butthurt sock-poopet!

I got Trolled & Shilled at the CIA Troll/Shill Society and now I feel EPIC!!!

Re: Rockets cannot work in a Vacuum.
« Reply #1594 on: March 11, 2016, 03:21:52 AM »
^Butthurt sock-poopet spamming sickeningly humourless garbage.

^lol.

If the butthurt sock-poopet cannot understand that when there is ZERO pressure DOWNSTREAM, then ZERO pressure can be exerted UPSTREAM, there is nothing to be done with it.

The force-pairing that produces thrust in a rocket is created at the EXIT of the nozzle.

This is a FACT.

That force-pairing cannot be created without ambient (i.e. Atmospheric) pressure OUTSIDE the nozzle.

Ergo, a rocket cannot produce thrust without Atmosphere.

QED.

TOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOODLE-PIP, Butthurt sock-poopet!

Oh, Poppa. You're letting me side down. Worse than that, you're letting yourself down. <sigh>

I was convinced you'd have the answers to my VERY simple questions.

Seriously, all I need to know is, what is the force that expels the gas from the rocket nozzle? If it's moving, then it surely must have had a force imparted on it by something? What is the something? Please explain, I need to know! I totally agree with you that the vast quantities of hot gas are creating a vacuum, not a pressure, but I just need this specific point explaining and your theory will wrap up nicley.

Int fysics brilliant! Coz, when yer don't really understand it, yer can just ask Poppa and he'll tell yer everything' yer need to know in (like) dead simple language that's right easy to understand!

Brilliant!

So, in a vacuum, how does the huge quantity of very hot, very quickly moving exhaust gases actually get out of the rocket nozzle given that we KNOW it doesn't have any internal pressure (you told us so, ergo it is the TRUTH). Please tell me! WHat exactly forces this huge amount of hot vacuum into the cold vacuum of space!

Ve have ze thirst, you have ze hanswers. Give me the secret, Poppa, clue me what to do. Give me the power of man's red flower, so I can be like you.

NOW PLEASE.

Toodles!
I made up some completely random sh!te on the Flat Earth Society forum and now I feel completely and utterly EPIC!!!

Re: Rockets cannot work in a Vacuum.
« Reply #1595 on: March 11, 2016, 03:44:41 AM »
1. Joule's free expansion takes place in a closed system where mass cannot leave the system. Can conservation of momentum take effect? Can an unbalanced force take place? If you put a bomb in glass bulb A and explode it. Would the entire container set off into space or would it just sit there?

2. I think you will find for an actual gas and not an ideal one. The temperature decreases as it expands into vacuum. Even greatly so if the original gas in container A is of great pressure and high temperature. I'll leave you to research that.

3. A rocket works because of conservation of momentum. After all gas is still mass isnt it or are you going to deny that aswell.

4. Can this gas impart a force. Yes it can. Hooray. Conservation of momentum. Rockets work.

5. Still waiting for a reply to:

Why a rocket's thrust increases as it gains altitude.

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Papa Legba

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Re: Rockets cannot work in a Vacuum.
« Reply #1596 on: March 11, 2016, 03:52:57 AM »
LOL!!!

How did you know I was composing a post on Free Expansion BEFORE I posted it, TylerJRB?

You just proved what I have known for months; that you shills have access to the forum architecture & read what I write as I am doing so...

You IDIOT; how shit at your job are you?

Rayzor/PsychedelicShill: I am sorry that your terminal cognitive dissonance inhibits you from making any sense whatsoever.

That is sad for you.

However, your attempts to impose your confusion upon myself & others via demented gish-gallop is most unhelpful.

0300 123 3393: Mental Health Hotline.

Call them now please.

Anyhoo; all anyone needs to understand to be sure I am correct in my position is what this diagram represents:



It is a thought experiment, based upon the theoretical implications of Free Expansion & shows clearly what would happen to a gas whilst expanding into an infinite vacuum.

The answer is: NOTHING.

It produces No Work; No Force; No Recoil; NOTHING AT ALL.

Because You Cannot Push on Nothing.

Despite all Rayzor, markjo & their laughable sock-poopet army say, it is that simple.

Now, Carry On Lying!
I got Trolled & Shilled at the CIA Troll/Shill Society and now I feel EPIC!!!

Re: Rockets cannot work in a Vacuum.
« Reply #1597 on: March 11, 2016, 04:11:41 AM »
Is a rocket a cylinder with a piston? or two glass bulbs?

Does mass leave the system? Can an unbalanced force be created? can COM take effect?

Is the work taking place in the combustion chamber. Or inside the vacuum of space.

Is a rocket a set volume of gas in a chamber or is a continuous vigorous chemical reaction producing tens of thousands of litres of gas per second? Which imparts its force and completely exits the entire system?

You cannot push on nothing. But you can push on a solid object. Being. The rocket.

The mere proposition that there is high pressure, high energy gas inside the combustion chamber tells us that there is more going in than going out of the rocket. The fact that gas infact does act like ping pong balls tells us that a force can be imparted on the walls of the combustion chamber and nozzle. If you did a tiny bit of research. Maybe you will realise that a rockets exhaust is substantially cooler than combustion temperature/before the throat.

Still waiting for a reply to:

Why a rocket's thrust increases as it gains altitude.
« Last Edit: March 11, 2016, 04:23:20 AM by TylerJRB »

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Round and Proud

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Re: Rockets cannot work in a Vacuum.
« Reply #1598 on: March 11, 2016, 04:18:46 AM »
Quote
Quote
Agreed! How is it possible for a gas to get expelled out of the back of the nozzle in a vacuum at great speed, if it has a pressure? The gas itself MUST exhibit zero pressure. In other words, the huge, hot jet of gaseous flame and exhaust products is, at all times of its pathetic life-cycle, at zero pressure. That's right, the exhaust gas coming out of the back of a rocket engine is actually a VACUUM. Any other explanation is simply un-poss-ible, and in defiance of lysical phaws./quote]

So a vacuum can never be pressurized?
Stupidity cannot be cured with money, or through education, or by legislation. Stupidity is not a sin, the victim can't help being stupid. But stupidity is the only universal capital crime...

Re: Rockets cannot work in a Vacuum.
« Reply #1599 on: March 11, 2016, 04:21:55 AM »
If gas doesn't conserve momentum then it has to be wrong.

Hi Mainframes! So the 'Empirical' ID is another GP sock-poopet that any of you Clowns can use too?

Thanks for that.

Anyhoo; yet again you are attributing things to me that I never said.

Even though Conservation of Energy is more usefully applied to gasses than COM, they both amount to the same thing.

And Free Expansion of Gas in a Vacuum violates NEITHER.

I have NEVER claimed it does.

This is all thoroughly-established, repeatedly experimentally-verified scientific FACT.

And it all adds up to NASA's gas-powered rockets not working in a vacuum.
It does violate conservation of momentum. The gas leaving the rocket can only leave it in the direction of the hole, so the gas will momentum in the direction of the hole, so for conservation of momentum to be satisfied something must gain momentum in the opposite direction, I wonder what that could be?

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Papa Legba

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Re: Rockets cannot work in a Vacuum.
« Reply #1600 on: March 11, 2016, 04:22:39 AM »
Oh no you don't!

How did TylerJRB know I was writing a post on free expansion BEFORE I posted it, shills?

Look; here it is; look at the time on it:

1. Joule's free expansion takes place in a closed system where mass cannot leave the system. Can conservation of momentum take effect? Can an unbalanced force take place? If you put a bomb in glass bulb A and explode it. Would the entire container set off into space or would it just sit there?

2. I think you will find for an actual gas and not an ideal one. The temperature decreases as it expands into vacuum. Even greatly so if the original gas in container A is of great pressure and high temperature. I'll leave you to research that.

3. A rocket works because of conservation of momentum. After all gas is still mass isnt it or are you going to deny that aswell.

4. Can this gas impart a force. Yes it can. Hooray. Conservation of momentum. Rockets work.

5. Still waiting for a reply to:

Why a rocket's thrust increases as it gains altitude.

Now here is my post; again, look at the time:

LOL!!!

How did you know I was composing a post on Free Expansion BEFORE I posted it, TylerJRB?

You just proved what I have known for months; that you shills have access to the forum architecture & read what I write as I am doing so...

You IDIOT; how shit at your job are you?

Rayzor/PsychedelicShill: I am sorry that your terminal cognitive dissonance inhibits you from making any sense whatsoever.

That is sad for you.

However, your attempts to impose your confusion upon myself & others via demented gish-gallop is most unhelpful.

0300 123 3393: Mental Health Hotline.

Call them now please.

Anyhoo; all anyone needs to understand to be sure I am correct in my position is what this diagram represents:



It is a thought experiment, based upon the theoretical implications of Free Expansion & shows clearly what would happen to a gas whilst expanding into an infinite vacuum.

The answer is: NOTHING.

It produces No Work; No Force; No Recoil; NOTHING AT ALL.

Because You Cannot Push on Nothing.

Despite all Rayzor, markjo & their laughable sock-poopet army say, it is that simple.

Now, Carry On Lying!

HE WAS CLEARLY REPLYING TO MY POST BEFORE I EVEN POSTED IT.

I HAVE NOT MENTIONED FREE EXPANSION IN PAGES; SO WHY DID HE CHOOSE TO REFUTE A POST I HAD NOT YET MADE?

HOW DID HE DO THIS?

He will address this or I will contact the mods, admins, everybody...

This is VERY SERIOUS, okay?

If the posters on this forum are being monitored AS THEY WRITE then what the hell kind of place is it?

What the hell kind of people are YOU?

WHAT IS GOING ON HERE?

Answers NOW!
I got Trolled & Shilled at the CIA Troll/Shill Society and now I feel EPIC!!!

Re: Rockets cannot work in a Vacuum.
« Reply #1601 on: March 11, 2016, 04:30:02 AM »
The answer is you need to take your meds on time.

Re: Rockets cannot work in a Vacuum.
« Reply #1602 on: March 11, 2016, 04:32:54 AM »
Anyhoo; all anyone needs to understand to be sure I am correct in my position is what this diagram represents:



It is a thought experiment, based upon the theoretical implications of Free Expansion & shows clearly what would happen to a gas whilst expanding into an infinite vacuum.

The answer is: NOTHING.


B-b-b-but - I thought the rocket gases were being forced out into a VACUUM? This diagramme shows them pushing against a solid object. So, it's not expanding into an infinite vacuum.

Anyhoo - the point you need to explain (and it's only one small point that your entire theory hangs off, so it should be a cinch for you), is how does the huge volume of hot, high velocity gaseous particles get expelled from the combustion chamber and past the nozzle, given that (as you EVER so rightly point out), the exhaust gas can not have any pressure in a vacuum, since it has nothing to push on.

How does it get out of the rocket nozzle?

What is it pushing on?

Cheers, Poppa!  ;)
I made up some completely random sh!te on the Flat Earth Society forum and now I feel completely and utterly EPIC!!!

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Papa Legba

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Re: Rockets cannot work in a Vacuum.
« Reply #1603 on: March 11, 2016, 04:39:09 AM »
It's good that you're all having to post lots of contrived & illogical nonsense to astroturf TylerJRB's massive cock-up, as it reveals how morally & intellectually bankrupt your position is.

But this will NOT go away, sadly for you.

Again:

Oh no you don't!

How did TylerJRB know I was writing a post on free expansion BEFORE I posted it, shills?

Look; here it is; look at the time on it:

1. Joule's free expansion takes place in a closed system where mass cannot leave the system. Can conservation of momentum take effect? Can an unbalanced force take place? If you put a bomb in glass bulb A and explode it. Would the entire container set off into space or would it just sit there?

2. I think you will find for an actual gas and not an ideal one. The temperature decreases as it expands into vacuum. Even greatly so if the original gas in container A is of great pressure and high temperature. I'll leave you to research that.

3. A rocket works because of conservation of momentum. After all gas is still mass isnt it or are you going to deny that aswell.

4. Can this gas impart a force. Yes it can. Hooray. Conservation of momentum. Rockets work.

5. Still waiting for a reply to:

Why a rocket's thrust increases as it gains altitude.

Now here is my post; again, look at the time:

LOL!!!

How did you know I was composing a post on Free Expansion BEFORE I posted it, TylerJRB?

You just proved what I have known for months; that you shills have access to the forum architecture & read what I write as I am doing so...

You IDIOT; how shit at your job are you?

Rayzor/PsychedelicShill: I am sorry that your terminal cognitive dissonance inhibits you from making any sense whatsoever.

That is sad for you.

However, your attempts to impose your confusion upon myself & others via demented gish-gallop is most unhelpful.

0300 123 3393: Mental Health Hotline.

Call them now please.

Anyhoo; all anyone needs to understand to be sure I am correct in my position is what this diagram represents:



It is a thought experiment, based upon the theoretical implications of Free Expansion & shows clearly what would happen to a gas whilst expanding into an infinite vacuum.

The answer is: NOTHING.

It produces No Work; No Force; No Recoil; NOTHING AT ALL.

Because You Cannot Push on Nothing.

Despite all Rayzor, markjo & their laughable sock-poopet army say, it is that simple.

Now, Carry On Lying!

HE WAS CLEARLY REPLYING TO MY POST BEFORE I EVEN POSTED IT.

I HAVE NOT MENTIONED FREE EXPANSION IN PAGES; SO WHY DID HE CHOOSE TO REFUTE A POST I HAD NOT YET MADE?

HOW DID HE DO THIS?

He will address this or I will contact the mods, admins, everybody...

This is VERY SERIOUS, okay?

If the posters on this forum are being monitored AS THEY WRITE then what the hell kind of place is it?

What the hell kind of people are YOU?

WHAT IS GOING ON HERE?

Answers NOW!
I got Trolled & Shilled at the CIA Troll/Shill Society and now I feel EPIC!!!

*

rabinoz

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Re: Rockets cannot work in a Vacuum.
« Reply #1604 on: March 11, 2016, 04:48:46 AM »
Anyhoo; all anyone needs to understand to be sure I am correct in my position is what this diagram represents:

See on right:

It is a thought experiment, based upon the theoretical implications of Free Expansion & shows clearly what would happen to a gas whilst expanding into an infinite vacuum.
It produces No Work; No Force; No Recoil; NOTHING AT ALL.

I couldn't care less if you were composing an "Ode to the mating habits of Gnus on the Serengeti", you are just as wrong!
By the way that second diagram is wrong! If it is into "infinite space" maybe it should be more like the diagram on the right:

By the way in your own diagram of this "thought experiment" Conservation of Momentum would dictate that (unless there was some restraint on the "system" the whole cylinder would move left a little. You simply have to realise that if your interpretation of "free expansion" contradicts "Conservation of Momentum", it is your interpretation of "free expansion" that is wrong, not the Conservation of Momentum.

Have you ever though that all these people you addled brain thinks are "sock-puppets" are posting similar information because we all agree and poor Papa is the odd man out! I can assure you that me, rayzzor, sokarul, TylerJRB, PsychedelicPill, markjo, Empirical, Round and Proud, luckyfred and even ausGeoff (hasn't been around for 8 months or so) are all very different people - the only common thread is that we know you are 100% wrong!

Funny isn't it that ALL the evidence we see is that rockets actually do work in space and only a deluded mind would think otherwise!





Still it's a bit like "Look mummy, our Papa's the only one in step!"

Re: Rockets cannot work in a Vacuum.
« Reply #1605 on: March 11, 2016, 04:51:46 AM »
Because you asked me such free expansion garbage yesterday. I thought I would reply to what you posted as i hadnt had time. Take a look and read the last time I posted. Boy if only I COULD look into the future. What do you think I am mr magic?

Take a look and read my last 2 posts. I am STILL AWAITING AN ANSWER.

Also still awating an answer to.

Why a rocket's thrust increases as it gains altitute.

Re: Rockets cannot work in a Vacuum.
« Reply #1606 on: March 11, 2016, 05:08:41 AM »
Anyhoo; all anyone needs to understand to be sure I am correct in my position is what this diagram represents:



It is a thought experiment, based upon the theoretical implications of Free Expansion & shows clearly what would happen to a gas whilst expanding into an infinite vacuum.

Hang on - that same image is on the Wiki page for Free Expansion, where it refers to a "process in which a gas expands into an insulated evacuated chamber."

Not an infinite vacuum? <Feels faintly giddy - cognitive dissonance kicking in>

Poppa can NOT be lying because he's a bastion of truth and a free-thinkist. Ergo...

Someone deliberately edited the Wiki page to make my Poppa look bad. <Slips back into comfort zone of Poppa Fysics 4 Truth)

BAD Wiki editor. Don't do it again.

Quote
Now, Carry On Lying!

Yay! We love you Poppa!

<Eagerly awaiting Poppa's lucid and concise explanation of how that hot, huge stream of highly UNdense gas manages to exit the nozzle without something applying a force to it. Or, explaining what it is that applies the force.>

This is going to be a CINCH, and when Poppa answers, you shill-goon-tards are gonna eat your back-to-front baseball caps, losers!

Remember, losers, Poppa has already told you that NO WORK is done by the gas during expansion, because there is NO MOTION of the boundaries, because the boundaries in the thought experiment scenario SURROUND the gas. He'll be along very shortly to explain why this applies when the boundary doesn't surround the gas (as in a rocket engine).

Prepare to be kebab-ed, anti-scientists!
I made up some completely random sh!te on the Flat Earth Society forum and now I feel completely and utterly EPIC!!!

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markjo

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Re: Rockets cannot work in a Vacuum.
« Reply #1607 on: March 11, 2016, 05:28:34 AM »
Remember, losers, Poppa has already told you that NO WORK is done by the gas during expansion, because there is NO MOTION of the boundaries, because the boundaries in the thought experiment scenario SURROUND the gas. He'll be along very shortly to explain why this applies when the boundary doesn't surround the gas (as in a rocket engine).
Boundaries?  Pappa don't need no stinking boundaries.
Science is what happens when preconception meets verification.
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Besides, perhaps FET is a conspiracy too.
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It is just the way it is, you understanding it doesn't concern me.

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Papa Legba

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Re: Rockets cannot work in a Vacuum.
« Reply #1608 on: March 11, 2016, 05:40:16 AM »
Because you asked me such free expansion garbage yesterday. I thought I would reply to what you posted as i hadnt had time. Take a look and read the last time I posted. Boy if only I COULD look into the future. What do you think I am mr magic?

Take a look and read my last 2 posts. I am STILL AWAITING AN ANSWER.

Also still awating an answer to.

Why a rocket's thrust increases as it gains altitute.


You neither quoted nor referred to the post in question.

You clearly answered the post I was writing.

I did not say you could look into the future either, liar.

I said you have access to the forum & can read my posts as I write them; hardly a 'magical' ability.

I have known the shills here can do this for months but you are so inept you proved it.

Also, I have answered your question on rocket thrust already.

Again you are a liar.

When will you stop lying, TylerJRB?

You are a noob shill who messed up by thinking I pressed 'post' when I actually pressed 'preview'.

This forum is compromised: FACT.

Happily, your shill sock-puppet pals, in their hurried attempt to astroturf your gross mistake, wrote such totally anti-scientific garbage that any neutral reader with any scientific knowledge will know beyond doubt you are Wrong.

So something good has come out of this disgusting farrago.

Boundaries?  Pappa don't need no stinking boundaries.

You're the one with no boundaries, proven liar markjo, as you are the worst offender for reading my posts as I write them...

Funny that, as you are an ex-mod are you not?

LOL!!!

You are all busted, as is this entire forum, for the nest of shills, sock-puppets & disinfo that it is.

Any neutral reader with a brain will see I am right.

It's over, FES/JREF/RationalWiki shill-posse; this place is fucked & it was Papa Legba that fucked it.

Toodle-pip, Perma-Losers!

I got Trolled & Shilled at the CIA Troll/Shill Society and now I feel EPIC!!!

Re: Rockets cannot work in a Vacuum.
« Reply #1609 on: March 11, 2016, 05:44:31 AM »
lol how can i access your posts as you write them? Didnt even think anyone could do that? You're crazy.

Didnt even know the word shill until you mentioned it.

I didn't quote because i couldnt be bothered trawling through pages of your shit.

No you didnt answer the post. Still waiting an answer.

Still awaiting an answer. Why joules free expansion doesnt show COM.

Why a rocket gains thrust as it gains altitude.

Seem you cannot answer either.

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Rayzor

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Re: Rockets cannot work in a Vacuum.
« Reply #1610 on: March 11, 2016, 05:46:19 AM »
[You are all busted, as is this entire forum, for the nest of shills, sock-puppets & disinfo that it is.

Any neutral reader with a brain will see I am right.

It's over, FES/JREF/RationalWiki shill-posse; this place is fucked & it was Papa Legba that fucked it.

Toodle-pip, Perma-Losers!

Yep, cheers Papa,  don't hurry back.

I managed to access Papa's phone and downloaded contacts.   Will be uploaded in the usual places. 
His speed dial entries were interesting..

[1] 0300 123 3393: Mental Health Hotline.
[2] 1850 60 90 90: Suicide Hotline.
[3] 0800 673 877: Chronic Masturbation Hotline.
[4] 1850 60 90 90: Butthurt Reportfag Hotline.
[5] 1850 60 90 90: Suicide Hotline.
[6] 0121 472 7281: Massage parlour in Birmingham
[7] 0161 839 4777: Forbidden Planet bookshop in Manchester

That is one sick little puppy.


PS..  Tyler report to HR first thing on dayshift.
Stop gilding the pickle, you demisexual aromantic homoflexible snowflake.

?

Papa Legba

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Re: Rockets cannot work in a Vacuum.
« Reply #1611 on: March 11, 2016, 06:04:31 AM »
*Yawn!*

Nobody cares, retard.

Look at this:

It does violate conservation of momentum.

LOL!!!

Free expansion violates conservation of momentum does it?

Better tell every scientist everywhere ever about THAT discovery...

Lying Idiot.

This is even better:

This diagramme shows them pushing against a solid object.

LOL!!!

No it doesn't, Lying Idiot.

It shows them expanding freely for as long as the piston can be kept moving at a faster rate than the expansion takes place.

Thus proving a rocket won't work in an infinite vacuum.

Lying Idiot.

And that's just the tip of the bullshit-iceberg you crapped out whilst trying to divert & defend your moronic shill-pal TylerJRB...

You have screwed the pooch royally, shills; just wrecked it.

Every reader who has even high-school physics will see how you have simply made shit up all day.

Just made shit up.

You finished, Losers.

Toooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooodle-PIP!
I got Trolled & Shilled at the CIA Troll/Shill Society and now I feel EPIC!!!

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markjo

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Re: Rockets cannot work in a Vacuum.
« Reply #1612 on: March 11, 2016, 06:07:30 AM »
Boundaries?  Pappa don't need no stinking boundaries.

You're the one with no boundaries, proven liar markjo, as you are the worst offender for reading my posts as I write them...
It's not hard to guess what you're going to post next, seeing as you constantly shitspam the same nonsense over and over again.
Science is what happens when preconception meets verification.
Quote from: Robosteve
Besides, perhaps FET is a conspiracy too.
Quote from: bullhorn
It is just the way it is, you understanding it doesn't concern me.

Re: Rockets cannot work in a Vacuum.
« Reply #1613 on: March 11, 2016, 06:29:11 AM »
No it doesn't, Lying Idiot.

B-b-b-but Poppa, I AGREE with you! I'm on YOUR side!

Quote
It shows them expanding freely for as long as the piston can be kept moving at a faster rate than the expansion takes place.

OK, ok, I dig that, b-b-b-but...

Quote
Thus proving a rocket won't work in an infinite vacuum.

...where is the infinite vacuum in the diagramme? I can't see an infinite vacuum. I can see a system surrounded by a boundary, and since the boundary isn't moved by the gas, the gas hasn't done any work. And if there is a boundary, then by definition, the vacuum the gas expands into cannot possibly be infinite, can it? (Maybe that's something else I don't understand, if so please explain to me VERY CLEARLY.)

Am I right so far?

Good.

So what happens when the system isn't enclosed by a boundary? For example, a mere rocket nozzle? Closed at one end. Open at the other. How does the huge amount of hot, expanding, (non)-pressurised gas (you tell me which it is), actually get out of the nozzle? How does it know where to go?

Perhaps it see the exit nozzle, and each and every gas molecule says "Right boys, everyone march in THAT direction, single file, straight into the cold, heartless vacuum of space, and under NO CIRCUMSTANCES create any pressure by bouncing into each other, or anything else!"

Or, are the molecules running around in a blind panic, bumping into each other, and occasionally off the walls of the combustion chamber, then into the nozzle area, saying "Aaargh, where am I going?", before spewing forth into the inky blackness, unfettered and free.

If the former, please explain to the anti-scientists and thug-ists on this board what physical laws force the gas molecules into such perfectly laminar  behaviour on a molecular level, and tell them how the gas molecules know where the exit nozzle is.

If the latter... well, it can't be the latter, because the law of conservation of momentum would mean that each molecule would impart a force on the rocket, and we both that is complETEly un-possible.

So, the former then. Explain it simply for the brutal shill-goat-tard-anti-scientits(sic) on this board.

I'm right behind you buddy.

Quote
Lying Idiot.

I love you Poppa. Looking forward to your next succinct and accurate explanation. Cuddles etc.
« Last Edit: March 11, 2016, 06:31:48 AM by PsychedelicPill »
I made up some completely random sh!te on the Flat Earth Society forum and now I feel completely and utterly EPIC!!!

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Papa Legba

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Re: Rockets cannot work in a Vacuum.
« Reply #1614 on: March 11, 2016, 07:02:49 AM »
Good work, PsychedelicShill/Rayzor; drunk as a Lord as usual & making your side look worse & worse with every twisted post.

If you cannot understand how the Momentum of a gas that is Expanding, Freely, into Nothing, without hitting anything on the way, or doing any Work whatsoever, is Conserved, then God help you.

Oops, I shoulda said 'Lucifer help you'!

Sorry about that.

The results of the Free Expansion experiment are clear as day to anyone with a brain.

As is the Fact that the force-pairing responsible for the thrust of a rocket is created at the Exit of the nozzle & Nowhere Else.

No Ambient Pressure to create that Force-Pairing with = No Thrust.

Veeeery Simple stuff...

But not simple enough for you.

Even 'You Cannot Push On Nothing' isn't simple enough for you, mind...

Why?

Nobody cares.

Toodle-pip, Simpleton!
I got Trolled & Shilled at the CIA Troll/Shill Society and now I feel EPIC!!!

*

Rayzor

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Re: Rockets cannot work in a Vacuum.
« Reply #1615 on: March 11, 2016, 07:03:27 AM »
I love you Poppa. Looking forward to your next succinct and accurate explanation. Cuddles etc.

Geez,  get a room you two. 
Stop gilding the pickle, you demisexual aromantic homoflexible snowflake.

Re: Rockets cannot work in a Vacuum.
« Reply #1616 on: March 11, 2016, 07:45:47 AM »
Good work, PsychedelicShill/Rayzor; drunk as a Lord as usual & making your side look worse & worse with every twisted post.

Who's Rayzor? I though I was Geoff!

Quote
If you cannot understand how the Momentum of a gas that is Expanding, Freely, into Nothing, without hitting anything on the way, or doing any Work whatsoever, is Conserved, then God help you.

But, if it's expanding freely, how does it ONLY know to expand into nothing? What happens when it expands in the direction of, say, the inside of the combustion chamber? Or the inside of the nozzle? Does the sargeant major particle stop and say "That's it, boys, no further from here. We remain PUT. Under NO circumstances is a SINGLE MOLECULE to step out of line and touch that nozzle! You hear me? Stay still! If we bump into that there nozzle, why, the nozzle would have to move a teeny weeny bit in order to conserve momentum, and that ain't happening, cos we're in a vacuum, and this puppy is sailing nowhere fast!"

Is that right? If not, please illuminate me with Poppa-logic.

Quote
Oops, I shoulda said 'Lucifer help you'!

Who's Lucifer? Will he tell me who Geoff really is?

Quote
The results of the Free Expansion experiment are clear as day to anyone with a brain.

Was that the free expansion into a system with a boundary, with no net work done on the enclosing boundary? Please explain for us mere simpletons!

Quote
As is the Fact that the force-pairing responsible for the thrust of a rocket is created at the Exit of the nozzle & Nowhere Else.

GOTTIT! I'm with you all the way, Poppy Legman! Force-pairing acts on a hole! UNDER NO CIRCUMSTANCES can a gas molecule impart a force on an actual object - it imparts a force on, quite literally, fresh air! Or a vacuum, depending on what's in the hole.

To reiterate for the hard of thinking:

In an atmosphere:- the exhaust gas molecule/particle hits a molecule of atmosphere, creating a force-pairing whereby the atmospheric molecule is whooshed in one direction, and the exhaust molecule is whooshed in the other. As Poopa says, the force-pairing occurs at the exit of the nozzle and NOWHERE ELSE. So the whooshed exhaust molecule whooshes somewhere (exactly where isn't relevant and only muddies the argument), and this mutual whooshing then causes the 1000 tonne rocket to raise into the air - WITHOUT any force being imparted on it (remember the truthful mantra - thrust is created at the nozzle exit - nowhere else - and the exit is just that - an empty gap). Makes sense to Fysics people like me and my Legman.

In a vacuum:- the exhaust gas molecule/particle NEVER hits the inside of the combustion chamber, or the nozzle. It just knows the way out of the nozzle, automatically, because Poppa-physics. On reaching the nozzle exit, the molecule says "What, no atmosphere for me to push on? How the hell am I going to get back into the rocket engine, so I can do some more non-pushing and get this baby shifted? Well, I just think I'll mosey on out and see what the atmosphere's like in this party."

Quote
No Ambient Pressure to create that Force-Pairing with = No Thrust.

Goddit! And expained it above for the hard of thunking among us.

Quote
Veeeery Simple stuff...

I know! How has this thread been dragged out over 80-odd pages?

Quote
But not simple enough for you.

Poppa, you've done a brilliant job of toasting these lame-wits and spaghetti-dicks. And I'm talking Alphabetti spaghetti, not that long, linguine stuff.

Quote
Even 'You Cannot Push On Nothing' isn't simple enough for you, mind...

I know! Especially at the exit of a nozzle, where the exhaust molecule MUST push on an atmospheric molecule, so that a force-pairing between those two particles occurs, and it's the force-pairing between two molecules in ACTUAL EXIT of the nozzle that causes the rocket to move, without a molecule EVER touching the nozzle, because Poppa-physics!

Quote
Toodle-pip, Simpleton!

I love you, Poppa. And I think I always will.
I made up some completely random sh!te on the Flat Earth Society forum and now I feel completely and utterly EPIC!!!

?

Papa Legba

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Re: Rockets cannot work in a Vacuum.
« Reply #1617 on: March 11, 2016, 08:07:01 AM »
I love you Poppa. Looking forward to your next succinct and accurate explanation. Cuddles etc.
Geez,  get a room you two.

^Telling his own sock-poopet to get a room with me.

^Genuinely believes no-one notices this.

^Gone full shill retard.

lol how can i access your posts as you write them? Didnt even think anyone could do that? You're crazy.

Didnt even know the word shill until you mentioned it.

I didn't quote because i couldnt be bothered trawling through pages of your shit.

No you didnt answer the post. Still waiting an answer.

Still awaiting an answer. Why joules free expansion doesnt show COM.

Why a rocket gains thrust as it gains altitude.

Seem you cannot answer either.

LOL!!!

'Didn't know the word shill...'

LMFAO!!!

And you didn't quote because you were reading my post as I wrote & thought I'd hit 'post' when in fact I'd hit 'preview'.

Because you're a noob & shit at your job.

Also, yes I have answered your question.

But, as per shill-tactics 101, because you didn't like my answer you're pretending I didn't & demanding another.

You do this because you are a shill.

Seriously; if this was an interrogation I'd be unholstering the Webley & dragging you to the nearest shell-hole.

You are done; finished; busted... guilty as hell; convicted & condemned.

Now stop posting your Lies & bullshit & gtfo my thread.

LOSER.
I got Trolled & Shilled at the CIA Troll/Shill Society and now I feel EPIC!!!

*

Round and Proud

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Re: Rockets cannot work in a Vacuum.
« Reply #1618 on: March 11, 2016, 09:35:44 AM »
Oh no you don't!

How did TylerJRB know I was writing a post on free expansion BEFORE I posted it, shills?

Look; here it is; look at the time on it:

1. Joule's free expansion takes place in a closed system where mass cannot leave the system. Can conservation of momentum take effect? Can an unbalanced force take place? If you put a bomb in glass bulb A and explode it. Would the entire container set off into space or would it just sit there?

2. I think you will find for an actual gas and not an ideal one. The temperature decreases as it expands into vacuum. Even greatly so if the original gas in container A is of great pressure and high temperature. I'll leave you to research that.

3. A rocket works because of conservation of momentum. After all gas is still mass isnt it or are you going to deny that aswell.

4. Can this gas impart a force. Yes it can. Hooray. Conservation of momentum. Rockets work.

5. Still waiting for a reply to:

Why a rocket's thrust increases as it gains altitude.

Now here is my post; again, look at the time:

LOL!!!

How did you know I was composing a post on Free Expansion BEFORE I posted it, TylerJRB?

You just proved what I have known for months; that you shills have access to the forum architecture & read what I write as I am doing so...

You IDIOT; how shit at your job are you?

Rayzor/PsychedelicShill: I am sorry that your terminal cognitive dissonance inhibits you from making any sense whatsoever.

That is sad for you.

However, your attempts to impose your confusion upon myself & others via demented gish-gallop is most unhelpful.

0300 123 3393: Mental Health Hotline.

Call them now please.

Anyhoo; all anyone needs to understand to be sure I am correct in my position is what this diagram represents:



It is a thought experiment, based upon the theoretical implications of Free Expansion & shows clearly what would happen to a gas whilst expanding into an infinite vacuum.

The answer is: NOTHING.

It produces No Work; No Force; No Recoil; NOTHING AT ALL.

Because You Cannot Push on Nothing.

Despite all Rayzor, markjo & their laughable sock-poopet army say, it is that simple.

Now, Carry On Lying!

HE WAS CLEARLY REPLYING TO MY POST BEFORE I EVEN POSTED IT.

I HAVE NOT MENTIONED FREE EXPANSION IN PAGES; SO WHY DID HE CHOOSE TO REFUTE A POST I HAD NOT YET MADE?

HOW DID HE DO THIS?

He will address this or I will contact the mods, admins, everybody...

This is VERY SERIOUS, okay?

If the posters on this forum are being monitored AS THEY WRITE then what the hell kind of place is it?

What the hell kind of people are YOU?

WHAT IS GOING ON HERE?

Answers NOW!

Your dodging the facts by not answering his question. And it is not even a good side step. Everyone knew it was coming.

Your SOP, call names, avoid answering and change the subject.
Stupidity cannot be cured with money, or through education, or by legislation. Stupidity is not a sin, the victim can't help being stupid. But stupidity is the only universal capital crime...

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Papa Legba

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Re: Rockets cannot work in a Vacuum.
« Reply #1619 on: March 11, 2016, 09:54:13 AM »
LOL!!!

I did answer his deliberately incorrectly-phrased bullshit question.

But now you're pretending I didn't too...

Of course, there's no way you're just another sock-puppet shill gang-stalking me with strawman bullshit & lies, is there?

After all, you personally saw teh Ecks-fifteeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeen & played mother-hen to a nest of Atom bombs, didn't you?

And you have the most not-at-all-made-up-by-an-AI-program name on the forum too.

Just LMFAO at how lame & shit at your jobs you all are!

Who the fuck do you think you're talking to?

Who the fuck do you think would fall for a single word of your bullshit?

I swear to God I would LOVE to get you in an interrogation room to hear you try this pompous gobshite schtick to my face...

Now THAT really would be fun!

Toodle-pip, worst disinfo-agents in teh 'Rowndd annd Prwowd' world!
I got Trolled & Shilled at the CIA Troll/Shill Society and now I feel EPIC!!!