Rockets cannot work in a Vacuum.

Believing in a dumb idea is not "being enlightened".

So, we just have to find out exactly what we mean by a "dumb idea".

When do you see rocket exhaust change direction to push back on the rocket?

You're missing the drift, man.

It's enjoying watching everyone dance to its tune! Now, if it's enjoying watching everyone dancing to it's tune, is it a good idea, or a dumb idea, to carry on dancing? When it keeps playing a tune you can't stand over and over again, surely it's a dumb idea to carry on dancing? Would it be a better idea to sit down, or find another disco, or change the music? And what exactly is this crazy "it" I keep mentioning?

I decided to change the music, man. Digging the groove.

But hey, red pill, blue pill. Each to their own.

Why is nobody offering rockets with 11 different herbs and spices?    Simple,  rockets are not chickens.   

Now I'm hungry.....   spicy wings anyone.     

Quote from: sokarul on March 01, 2016, 05:19:53 PM

Believing in a dumb idea is not "being enlightened".

So, we just have to find out exactly what we mean by a "dumb idea".

Quote

When do you see rocket exhaust change direction to push back on the rocket?

You're missing the drift, man.

It's enjoying watching everyone dance to its tune! Now, if it's enjoying watching everyone dancing to it's tune, is it a good idea, or a dumb idea, to carry on dancing? When it keeps playing a tune you can't stand over and over again, surely it's a dumb idea to carry on dancing? Would it be a better idea to sit down, or find another disco, or change the music? And what exactly is this crazy "it" I keep mentioning?

I decided to change the music, man. Digging the groove.

But hey, red pill, blue pill. Each to their own.

So you can't back up your claim.  Got it.

So you can't back up your claim.  Got it.

Sigh.

I'm trying to help you. Please read my post again. An entity on this board is treating others as its pet, and making them dance to its tune. It has admitted that it gets satisfaction from this behaviour.

Given that knowledge, which of the following is a dumb idea:-

1) Carry on dancing
2) Go to a different disco
3) Change the tune

NOTE: this has nothing to do with rockets, vacuums, flat earths, ISSes, gorillas, or anything else.

Think about what is happening here. Think meta-discussion.

Think about what is happening here. Think meta-discussion.

Or think fried spherical space chickens in a vacuum.

*** classic nerd joke ***

#" class="bbc_link" target="_blank" rel="noopener noreferrer">! No longer available

Quote from: sokarul on March 01, 2016, 06:14:53 PM

So you can't back up your claim.  Got it.

Sigh.

I'm trying to help you. Please read my post again. An entity on this board is treating others as its pet, and making them dance to its tune. It has admitted that it gets satisfaction from this behaviour.

Given that knowledge, which of the following is a dumb idea:-

1) Carry on dancing
2) Go to a different disco
3) Change the tune

NOTE: this has nothing to do with rockets, vacuums, flat earths, ISSes, gorillas, or anything else.

Think about what is happening here. Think meta-discussion.

A dumb idea is 4) thinking it makes you cool to make up science and then think it's correct.

very good !!!!
=
molecules are not air;; air is an element made for transportation,,, the weekest of them all ,,, you could say it is next to being a vacuum ,,,, the sun and stars and celestial beings travel through it and so do we and molecules,,,,but at 100 miles above sea level everything travels at the same speed , ie: the sun and stars ,,, the cold element is also up there and it is static , that's why all things up there travel at the same speed except for celestial beings , and they definitly don't use thrust - hahaha

Let me ask you flat earth believers this. Do you believe a cannon will recoil just the same in a vacuum as it does in the atmosphere? 

And 5...4...3...2...1...
Cue copy pasta rant from PL......

A gas CANNOT push on a PHYSICAL OBJECT and cause it to move, unless it has first pushed on ANOTHER GAS.

I must have missed that awesome bit of physics you just gave... Where is such evidence to confirm this?

Lump of c4 in space, around which at 2 metre distance I place a ring of feathers. I explode the c4 which obviously turns immediately to gas. Do the feathers move?

Conservation of Momentum means nothing to you then?

Still not sure how this made it past one page.

Matter expelled at high velocity out one end, object moves other way. That's it.

Doesn't matter what surrounds the object. Doesn't matter how many pieces of foil are in your hat. The only thing that matters is Newton's 3rd law. That's it.

Quote from: PsychedelicPill on March 01, 2016, 01:59:33 PM

A gas CANNOT push on a PHYSICAL OBJECT and cause it to move, unless it has first pushed on ANOTHER GAS.

I must have missed that awesome bit of physics you just gave... Where is such evidence to confirm this?

Lump of c4 in space, around which at 2 metre distance I place a ring of feathers. I explode the c4 which obviously turns immediately to gas. Do the feathers move?

Conservation of Momentum means nothing to you then?

PsychedelicPill was making a joke,  by restating the "rockets don't work in a vacuum" in such a way as to make no sense.   I don't think it was needed... 

What happened to Papa Legba,  did the asylum staff revoke his internet privileges?   

Matter expelled at high velocity out one end, object moves other way. That's it.

Why does it move the other way?
Just explain why it moves the other way because you and many other's were asked this question and all of you have been vague at the very best.

So if your matter is expelled at high velocity, what pushes the rocket the other way?
Explain it so there is no confusion over anything.

Quote from: Dog on March 04, 2016, 02:26:17 AM

Matter expelled at high velocity out one end, object moves other way. That's it.

Why does it move the other way?
Just explain why it moves the other way because you and many other's were asked this question and all of you have been vague at the very best.

So if your matter is expelled at high velocity, what pushes the rocket the other way?
Explain it so there is no confusion over anything.

Well,  it's either conservation of momentum,  or it's magic,   you choose the answer that matches your world view.

Quote from: Dog on March 04, 2016, 02:26:17 AM

Matter expelled at high velocity out one end, object moves other way. That's it.

Why does it move the other way?
Just explain why it moves the other way because you and many other's were asked this question and all of you have been vague at the very best.

So if your matter is expelled at high velocity, what pushes the rocket the other way?
Explain it so there is no confusion over anything.

Because Newton's 3rd law? Action + reaction.

Quote from: Dog on March 04, 2016, 02:26:17 AM

Matter expelled at high velocity out one end, object moves other way. That's it.

Why does it move the other way?
Just explain why it moves the other way because you and many other's were asked this question and all of you have been vague at the very best.

So if your matter is expelled at high velocity, what pushes the rocket the other way?
Explain it so there is no confusion over anything.

As stated. Newton's 3rd with equal and opposite reactions. The force that pushes the gas in one direction is matched by a force pushing the rocket in the other direction.

Quote from: Dog on March 04, 2016, 02:26:17 AM

Matter expelled at high velocity out one end, object moves other way. That's it.

Why does it move the other way?

That's the way the universe works.  Get over it.

 Why does your space rocket  move the other way?
Just explain why it moves the other way because you and many other's were asked this question and all of you have been vague at the very best.

So if your matter is expelled at high velocity, what pushes the rocket the other way?
Explain it so there is no confusion over anything.

Try and explain why it moves opposite to it's expelled fuel.
I don't want to see answers like conservation of momentum or action/reaction. Don't hide behind that - explain it in detail as to what is really happening.

Let's see if anyone can do it. 4 have failed instantly.

Try and explain why it moves opposite to it's expelled fuel.
I don't want to see answers like conservation of momentum or action/reaction. Don't hide behind that - explain it in detail as to what is really happening.

No one is hiding behind Newton's 3rd law.  Action/reaction, as explained by Newton's 3rd law, is the correct answer, plain and simple.

We've been explaining it in detail for over 70 pages.  If you don't get it by now, then I really don't know what anyone can say to make it any plainer.

Why does your space rocket  move the other way?
Just explain why it moves the other way because you and many other's were asked this question and all of you have been vague at the very best.

So if your matter is expelled at high velocity, what pushes the rocket the other way?
Explain it so there is no confusion over anything.

Try and explain why it moves opposite to it's expelled fuel.
I don't want to see answers like conservation of momentum or action/reaction. Don't hide behind that - explain it in detail as to what is really happening.

Let's see if anyone can do it. 4 have failed instantly.

If you want to get right down to the detail then fine. In order to escape the combustion chamber an exhaust particle must be moving directly towards the nozzle exit. In order to move in this direction the particles will have hit the wall of the combustion chamber and bounced towards the exit.

When any two objects impact they exert an equal and opposite force on each other. For the gas particle this force will firstly slow it to standstill and then accelerate it in the other direction. The gas particle impact the combustion chamber wall will exert force on the wall. This force will cause the wall to accelerate in a direction opposite to the gas particles new direction.

Repeat this process for countless gas particles and the force will amount to enough to create considerable acceleration in the rocket.

Quote from: sceptimatic on March 04, 2016, 08:41:31 AM

Why does your space rocket  move the other way?
Just explain why it moves the other way because you and many other's were asked this question and all of you have been vague at the very best.

So if your matter is expelled at high velocity, what pushes the rocket the other way?
Explain it so there is no confusion over anything.

Try and explain why it moves opposite to it's expelled fuel.
I don't want to see answers like conservation of momentum or action/reaction. Don't hide behind that - explain it in detail as to what is really happening.

Let's see if anyone can do it. 4 have failed instantly.

If you want to get right down to the detail then fine. In order to escape the combustion chamber an exhaust particle must be moving directly towards the nozzle exit. In order to move in this direction the particles will have hit the wall of the combustion chamber and bounced towards the exit.

When any two objects impact they exert an equal and opposite force on each other. For the gas particle this force will firstly slow it to standstill and then accelerate it in the other direction. The gas particle impact the combustion chamber wall will exert force on the wall. This force will cause the wall to accelerate in a direction opposite to the gas particles new direction.

Repeat this process for countless gas particles and the force will amount to enough to create considerable acceleration in the rocket.

Here is what you are describing, so let's see how you garner logic from it.

You're saying that a crowd of people are running down an alleyway. The people then start to bounce off the walls of the alley and stop as they hit other people, then they about turn and rebound back in the opposite direction into the people running out.
How in the hell does that create a force to push in the opposite direction?
To me it looks like a stalemate.

Quote from: Mainframes on March 04, 2016, 10:24:57 AM

Quote from: sceptimatic on March 04, 2016, 08:41:31 AM

Why does your space rocket  move the other way?
Just explain why it moves the other way because you and many other's were asked this question and all of you have been vague at the very best.

So if your matter is expelled at high velocity, what pushes the rocket the other way?
Explain it so there is no confusion over anything.

Try and explain why it moves opposite to it's expelled fuel.
I don't want to see answers like conservation of momentum or action/reaction. Don't hide behind that - explain it in detail as to what is really happening.

Let's see if anyone can do it. 4 have failed instantly.

If you want to get right down to the detail then fine. In order to escape the combustion chamber an exhaust particle must be moving directly towards the nozzle exit. In order to move in this direction the particles will have hit the wall of the combustion chamber and bounced towards the exit.

When any two objects impact they exert an equal and opposite force on each other. For the gas particle this force will firstly slow it to standstill and then accelerate it in the other direction. The gas particle impact the combustion chamber wall will exert force on the wall. This force will cause the wall to accelerate in a direction opposite to the gas particles new direction.

Repeat this process for countless gas particles and the force will amount to enough to create considerable acceleration in the rocket.

Here is what you are describing, so let's see how you garner logic from it.

You're saying that a crowd of people are running down an alleyway. The people then start to bounce off the walls of the alley and stop as they hit other people, then they about turn and rebound back in the opposite direction into the people running out.
How in the hell does that create a force to push in the opposite direction?
To me it looks like a stalemate.

Take a reasonably heavy book and a tennis ball. Stand the book up on a table and throw the tennis ball at it.

Result? The book is pushed back slightly and the tennis ball bounces back in the direction it was thrown from.

Why? At the point of impact the ball creates force on the book and pushes it away. The book pushes back on the tennis ball with equal and opposite force to slow it down and then accelerate it away.

Simple, basic employment of Newtonian mechanics.

What happened to Papa Legba,  did the asylum staff revoke his internet privileges?

I don't wanna boast where it is unfounded, but I think I ran him off! I'm actually kinda bummed. I was about to rip him a new one in A/R but he hasn't posted there since.

Quote from: Rayzor on March 04, 2016, 06:57:27 AM

What happened to Papa Legba,  did the asylum staff revoke his internet privileges?

I don't wanna boast where it is unfounded, but I think I ran him off! I'm actually kinda bummed. I was about to rip him a new one in A/R but he hasn't posted there since.

He mysteriously disappeared. Probably finally realised rockets work and the ISS is real. Maybe bought himself some chickens, shot himself into space.

Or like rayzor said. Mental institute cut down his internet .

PsychedelicPill was making a joke,  by restating the "rockets don't work in a vacuum" in such a way as to make no sense.   I don't think it was needed... 

What happened to Papa Legba,  did the asylum staff revoke his internet privileges?

Lol, thats just me then. Hard to say if someone actually means what they say with papa around. Most times i get it wrong .

Quote from: sceptimatic on March 04, 2016, 10:44:15 AM

Quote from: Mainframes on March 04, 2016, 10:24:57 AM

Quote from: sceptimatic on March 04, 2016, 08:41:31 AM

Why does your space rocket  move the other way?
Just explain why it moves the other way because you and many other's were asked this question and all of you have been vague at the very best.

So if your matter is expelled at high velocity, what pushes the rocket the other way?
Explain it so there is no confusion over anything.

Try and explain why it moves opposite to it's expelled fuel.
I don't want to see answers like conservation of momentum or action/reaction. Don't hide behind that - explain it in detail as to what is really happening.

Let's see if anyone can do it. 4 have failed instantly.

If you want to get right down to the detail then fine. In order to escape the combustion chamber an exhaust particle must be moving directly towards the nozzle exit. In order to move in this direction the particles will have hit the wall of the combustion chamber and bounced towards the exit.

When any two objects impact they exert an equal and opposite force on each other. For the gas particle this force will firstly slow it to standstill and then accelerate it in the other direction. The gas particle impact the combustion chamber wall will exert force on the wall. This force will cause the wall to accelerate in a direction opposite to the gas particles new direction.

Repeat this process for countless gas particles and the force will amount to enough to create considerable acceleration in the rocket.

Here is what you are describing, so let's see how you garner logic from it.

You're saying that a crowd of people are running down an alleyway. The people then start to bounce off the walls of the alley and stop as they hit other people, then they about turn and rebound back in the opposite direction into the people running out.
How in the hell does that create a force to push in the opposite direction?
To me it looks like a stalemate.

Take a reasonably heavy book and a tennis ball. Stand the book up on a table and throw the tennis ball at it.

Result? The book is pushed back slightly and the tennis ball bounces back in the direction it was thrown from.

Why? At the point of impact the ball creates force on the book and pushes it away. The book pushes back on the tennis ball with equal and opposite force to slow it down and then accelerate it away.

Simple, basic employment of Newtonian mechanics.

Ok, so take the book away and what happens?

Not much. Now take the tennis all away and add a medicine ball. Stand on s skateboard. What happens?

^Still trying to apply solid mechanics-based terrible false analogies to a gas-based system.

^Retarded.

You lot lost this debate on page one.

You have no science to back up your bullshit.

None.

There is no possibility of a Finite system creating Pressure in an Infinite Vacuum by using Gasses.

Every single Law of Physics stands against you.

You dare not even quote Newton 3 in full except in Latin.

There is nothing in 'Space'.

It can be neither Weaponised nor Colonised.

It can, however, be Propagandised.

Which is where you disinfo-scum & useful idiots come in.

So; Carry On Lying, Idiot Propagandists!

How was your ban?  Have a good time?

^^^^Papa - still doesn't understand that fluid mechanics is simply a simplified model that is derived from kinetic theory that specifically uses solid particles. Lol.

PsychedelicPill was making a joke,  by restating the "rockets don't work in a vacuum" in such a way as to make no sense.   I don't think it was needed... 

Hurrah!

Finally, we're making a breakthrough.

There is no intelligent person on this forum who actually thinks that rockets don't work in a vacuum.

What there is on this forum, is more or more people who enjoy winding people up by pretending that's what they believe, then running rings round them , dropping logic bombs, random insults, non-sequiturs, then sitting back and revelling in the chaos that ensues. Basically, he's using this forum as a zoo, and the members are simply pets for his amusement.

I hoped people would catch on a little quicker. Which is slightly worrying.