Rockets cannot work in a Vacuum.

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legion

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Re: Rockets cannot work in a Vacuum.
« Reply #990 on: February 21, 2016, 10:09:36 AM »
To simplify how a rocket works imagine a chamber in a vacuum with a hole on one side, inside the chamber are two particles. An explosion causes one particle to move towards the hole, and the second moves in the opposite direction. The first leaves the chamber, and the second hits the chamber, bounces off and pushs the chamber. The first particle then leaves the chamber through the hole.

Are you on drugs? Or just stupid.
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sokarul

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Re: Rockets cannot work in a Vacuum.
« Reply #991 on: February 21, 2016, 10:11:53 AM »
His incorrectness is no different than your incorrectness. So are you on drugs or just stupid?
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sceptimatic

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Re: Rockets cannot work in a Vacuum.
« Reply #992 on: February 21, 2016, 10:20:13 AM »

I assume you missed this so will ask again.

Less than 30 days ago you believed this:

http://www.theflatearthsociety.org/forum/index.php?topic=64713.msg1752797#msg1752797

Quote
If what you describe, and how you propose a rocket works, were true then the Joule free expansion experiment equipment would be forced sideways as the pressures equalised.

Look at YOUR diagram:



Why does the part marked gas NOT move AT ALL when the valve is opened?

According to YOUR half-baked ideas it SHOULD.

But it DOES NOT.

BECAUSE NO WORK IS DONE ON THE SYSTEM AT ALL.

IS THAT CLEAR ENOUGH FOR YOU?

NOW STOP WASTING MY TIME!

Do you still believe this or that the gas would in fact move into the other chamber?

@Papa Legba

Are you avoiding answering the above?
In that diagram the gas in the container would only give up close to half to the supposed vacuum container.

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legion

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Re: Rockets cannot work in a Vacuum.
« Reply #993 on: February 21, 2016, 10:21:38 AM »
His incorrectness is no different than your incorrectness. So are you on drugs or just stupid?

But you are right of course! Keep dreaming loser.

Here is a perfect visual representation of why rockets will not work in the void:




"Indoctrination [...] is often distinguished from education by the fact that the indoctrinated person is expected not to question or critically examine the doctrine they have learned".

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sokarul

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Re: Rockets cannot work in a Vacuum.
« Reply #994 on: February 21, 2016, 10:29:55 AM »
His incorrectness is no different than your incorrectness. So are you on drugs or just stupid?

But you are right of course! Keep dreaming loser.

Here is a perfect visual representation of why rockets will not work in the void:




That makes no sense.
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markjo

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Re: Rockets cannot work in a Vacuum.
« Reply #995 on: February 21, 2016, 10:33:48 AM »
To simplify how a rocket works imagine a chamber in a vacuum with a hole on one side, inside the chamber are two particles. An explosion causes one particle to move towards the hole, and the second moves in the opposite direction. The first leaves the chamber, and the second hits the chamber, bounces off and pushs the chamber. The first second particle then leaves the chamber through the hole.

Are you on drugs? Or just stupid.
Why don't you point out exactly what's wrong with his description (other than the minor mistake that I fixed)?  Or can't you?
Science is what happens when preconception meets verification.
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Besides, perhaps FET is a conspiracy too.
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sokarul

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Re: Rockets cannot work in a Vacuum.
« Reply #996 on: February 21, 2016, 10:36:57 AM »
The molecules don't push the chamber as described.
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markjo

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Re: Rockets cannot work in a Vacuum.
« Reply #997 on: February 21, 2016, 10:42:25 AM »
The molecules don't push the chamber as described.
Why not?
Science is what happens when preconception meets verification.
Quote from: Robosteve
Besides, perhaps FET is a conspiracy too.
Quote from: bullhorn
It is just the way it is, you understanding it doesn't concern me.

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Papa Legba

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Re: Rockets cannot work in a Vacuum.
« Reply #998 on: February 21, 2016, 11:28:38 AM »
The molecules don't push the chamber as described.
Why not?

LOL!!!

You lot have NO coherent model for how a rocket works, do you?

I do: F=pa.

And 'p' will equal zero in a near-infinite vacuum.

Ergo 'F' will equal Zero.

Simple.

Plus, the fact that you are turning on your pet retard sokarul after all he has done for you shows you are utterly amoral.

Just a disgusting human being.

You ARE in Hell, markjo.

Legba SEES you there.
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TylerJRB

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Re: Rockets cannot work in a Vacuum.
« Reply #999 on: February 21, 2016, 11:29:05 AM »
There are more than one part to why the rocket works. The first is the obvious. The rocket releasing large amounts of mass at high velocity. Moves the rocket due to conservation of momentum. It explains why rockets use propellants which burn and propel a lighter mass at a higher velocity as opposed to a propellant with more mass at a slower velocity.

The other is gas particles hitting the inside of the combustion chamber. They will impart a force on the rocket every time one of these hits the inside of the combustion chamber, Throat and Nozzle. Opposing forces are cancelled out where as unopposed forces mean a larger net force in that direction. Just like having a block with 2 springs on faces opposing each other. Then putting a spring on any other face. When the springs are equally compressed where will the block move?

The main part we can say gives the highest amount of force is the mass flow and its velocity. But the high velocity particles hitting the internals of the rocket also cause a force aswell.

The reason a rocket works in space and why you cannot pull yourself up by your own arms is simple. You are not causing newtons 3rd and conservation of momentum to take effect. You are not releasing mass. Now take away gravity, air. Then cut off your own arm and throw it away. Will you move?

You are pushing your own arm away just like a rocket pushes a part of its own mass away.

Not hard to understand is it?

The molecules don't push the chamber as described.
Why not?

LOL!!!

You lot have NO coherent model for how a rocket works, do you?

I do: F=pa.

And 'p' will equal zero in a near-infinite vacuum.

Ergo 'F' will equal Zero.

What about the pressure and area of the combustion chamber? What about the pressure and area of the Nozzle?

You retarded or what?
« Last Edit: February 21, 2016, 11:31:15 AM by TylerJRB »

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Papa Legba

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Re: Rockets cannot work in a Vacuum.
« Reply #1000 on: February 21, 2016, 11:55:25 AM »
There are more than one part to why the rocket works.

Wrong.

The first is the obvious. The rocket releasing large amounts of mass at high velocity

Wronger.

It's F=pa for gasses, NOT F=ma, retard.

PRESSURE.

The thing you & your shill-fly scum-chums both hate & are under...

Cos you have no idea how a rocket works.

And the more you Lie the more Obvious it is.

Toodle-pip, Obvious Liars!
I got Trolled & Shilled at the CIA Troll/Shill Society and now I feel EPIC!!!

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sokarul

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Re: Rockets cannot work in a Vacuum.
« Reply #1001 on: February 21, 2016, 12:04:27 PM »
The molecules don't push the chamber as described.
Why not?
Because this would mean you would want the biggest opening on the other side making a nozzle worthless. You could make a tank with unequal surface area on two sides and it would propel itself. This would also make thrust vectoring worthless.

A force is created in the combustion chamber and it accelerates the exhaust out the constricting nozzle. An equal and opposite force then acts on the rocket.
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markjo

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Re: Rockets cannot work in a Vacuum.
« Reply #1002 on: February 21, 2016, 12:09:06 PM »
You lot have NO coherent model for how a rocket works, do you?
Yes, I do.  It's called rocket science.

I do: F=pa.
One formula does not a model make.  Lots of formulas relate to rockets.

And 'p' will equal zero in a near-infinite vacuum.
What will p be equal to inside the finite combustion chamber? 
Science is what happens when preconception meets verification.
Quote from: Robosteve
Besides, perhaps FET is a conspiracy too.
Quote from: bullhorn
It is just the way it is, you understanding it doesn't concern me.

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Papa Legba

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Re: Rockets cannot work in a Vacuum.
« Reply #1003 on: February 21, 2016, 12:10:39 PM »
Because this would mean you would want the biggest opening on the other side making a nozzle worthless.

Finally learning to think for yourself, socky-boy?

LOL!!!

No; it'll be some kinda weird game you've cooked up...

In which case; play on, Retards!

Amuse Legba like the Court Jesters you are...

NO U!!!

^Needs new material.
I got Trolled & Shilled at the CIA Troll/Shill Society and now I feel EPIC!!!

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legion

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Re: Rockets cannot work in a Vacuum.
« Reply #1004 on: February 21, 2016, 12:10:55 PM »

The reason a rocket works in space and why you cannot pull yourself up by your own arms is simple. You are not causing newtons 3rd and conservation of momentum to take effect. You are not releasing mass. Now take away gravity, air. Then cut off your own arm and throw it away. Will you move?[/b]

You are pushing your own arm away just like a rocket pushes a part of its own mass away.

Not hard to understand is it?


Looks like (many of) you are incredibly confused about how things are able to move. I will educate you.

Newtons First Law

An object will remain at rest, or continue in motion, unless acted upon by an external force.

Let's say we have a football, at rest, on a table. How can we move it? We could poke it with a finger. We could blow on it. We could lift one side of the table.

Q: What do all of these methods for moving the football have in common?
A: They apply an unbalanced force on the football.

Now imagine that someone swaps the football for one made of lead and covers it to look like the football we moved previously. They ask us to blow on it again, which we do. This time, our breath is not sufficient to overcome the normal force of the lead ball. We blow and blow and it goes nowhere. We poke it with our finger which will move it, but it takes much more force on our part. The same with lifting the table to allow gravity to accelerate it toward the floor. More force required to overcome the normal force of the lead ball.

All of these examples are able to cause something to accelerate without hurling mass which the space cultists are obsessed with.

They work by applying an unbalanced force on an object.

That is all you need to understand Newtons first law.

No need to imagine two molecules in a chamber, or a grenade exploding in space. When you have digested (and squabbled over) that, I'll move on to the second law.





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Mainframes

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Re: Rockets cannot work in a Vacuum.
« Reply #1005 on: February 21, 2016, 12:17:00 PM »
Is a molecule of exhaust gas a separate object to a molecule of combustion chamber lining?
Never attribute to malice that which can be explained by ignorance or stupidity.

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sokarul

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Re: Rockets cannot work in a Vacuum.
« Reply #1006 on: February 21, 2016, 12:19:26 PM »
Because this would mean you would want the biggest opening on the other side making a nozzle worthless.

Finally learning to think for yourself, socky-boy?

LOL!!!

No; it'll be some kinda weird game you've cooked up...

In which case; play on, Retards!

Amuse Legba like the Court Jesters you are...

NO U!!!

^Needs new material.
They are just mistaken. Rockets still work in a vacuum.
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Papa Legba

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Re: Rockets cannot work in a Vacuum.
« Reply #1007 on: February 21, 2016, 12:32:27 PM »
They are just mistaken.

'They'?

Define 'They'.

Play on, Retards!
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sokarul

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Re: Rockets cannot work in a Vacuum.
« Reply #1008 on: February 21, 2016, 12:34:40 PM »
A few members.
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legion

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Re: Rockets cannot work in a Vacuum.
« Reply #1009 on: February 21, 2016, 12:37:43 PM »
A few members.

Lots of you, actually. I have helped you out already though:


The reason a rocket works in space and why you cannot pull yourself up by your own arms is simple. You are not causing newtons 3rd and conservation of momentum to take effect. You are not releasing mass. Now take away gravity, air. Then cut off your own arm and throw it away. Will you move?[/b]

You are pushing your own arm away just like a rocket pushes a part of its own mass away.

Not hard to understand is it?


Looks like (many of) you are incredibly confused about how things are able to move. I will educate you.

Newtons First Law

An object will remain at rest, or continue in motion, unless acted upon by an external force.

Let's say we have a football, at rest, on a table. How can we move it? We could poke it with a finger. We could blow on it. We could lift one side of the table.

Q: What do all of these methods for moving the football have in common?
A: They apply an unbalanced force on the football.

Now imagine that someone swaps the football for one made of lead and covers it to look like the football we moved previously. They ask us to blow on it again, which we do. This time, our breath is not sufficient to overcome the normal force of the lead ball. We blow and blow and it goes nowhere. We poke it with our finger which will move it, but it takes much more force on our part. The same with lifting the table to allow gravity to accelerate it toward the floor. More force required to overcome the normal force of the lead ball.

All of these examples are able to cause something to accelerate without hurling mass which the space cultists are obsessed with.

They work by applying an unbalanced force on an object.

That is all you need to understand Newtons first law.

No need to imagine two molecules in a chamber, or a grenade exploding in space. When you have digested (and squabbled over) that, I'll move on to the second law.
"Indoctrination [...] is often distinguished from education by the fact that the indoctrinated person is expected not to question or critically examine the doctrine they have learned".

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Papa Legba

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Re: Rockets cannot work in a Vacuum.
« Reply #1010 on: February 21, 2016, 12:49:41 PM »
A few members.

So a few members are mistaken about how a rocket works?

Care to name them?

Excluding myself, legion, sceptimatic & hoppy of course...

NAME THEM HERETICS NOW!

This just gets better & better...
I got Trolled & Shilled at the CIA Troll/Shill Society and now I feel EPIC!!!

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TylerJRB

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Re: Rockets cannot work in a Vacuum.
« Reply #1011 on: February 21, 2016, 01:17:33 PM »
A few members.

Lots of you, actually. I have helped you out already though:


The reason a rocket works in space and why you cannot pull yourself up by your own arms is simple. You are not causing newtons 3rd and conservation of momentum to take effect. You are not releasing mass. Now take away gravity, air. Then cut off your own arm and throw it away. Will you move?[/b]

You are pushing your own arm away just like a rocket pushes a part of its own mass away.

Not hard to understand is it?


Looks like (many of) you are incredibly confused about how things are able to move. I will educate you.

Newtons First Law

An object will remain at rest, or continue in motion, unless acted upon by an external force.

Let's say we have a football, at rest, on a table. How can we move it? We could poke it with a finger. We could blow on it. We could lift one side of the table.

Q: What do all of these methods for moving the football have in common?
A: They apply an unbalanced force on the football.

Now imagine that someone swaps the football for one made of lead and covers it to look like the football we moved previously. They ask us to blow on it again, which we do. This time, our breath is not sufficient to overcome the normal force of the lead ball. We blow and blow and it goes nowhere. We poke it with our finger which will move it, but it takes much more force on our part. The same with lifting the table to allow gravity to accelerate it toward the floor. More force required to overcome the normal force of the lead ball.

All of these examples are able to cause something to accelerate without hurling mass which the space cultists are obsessed with.

They work by applying an unbalanced force on an object.

That is all you need to understand Newtons first law.

No need to imagine two molecules in a chamber, or a grenade exploding in space. When you have digested (and squabbled over) that, I'll move on to the second law.

That is pretty obvious... But a rocket does work by throwing mass. And what does newtons 1st tell you about how rockets work? I'm sure the 1st law states "unless it is compelled to change that state by forces acting upon it". Just because high velocity fuel is imparting a force on the internals of the rocket doesnt mean no force is generated. I think by now the propellant can cause an "external" force from within the rocket itself. For the fact the rocket and propellant are two seperate objects. The propellant is burned to create an unbalanced force on the rocket. The fact its on the inside doesnt mean it cannot cause an unbalanced force on the rocket itself.

As already stated the main fuction is newtons 3rd law. The rocket ejects mass at a high speed. dependant on the amount of mass flow and velocity of that mass flow, the rocket moves in the opposite direction due to COM.

As said. Nasa lying about space travel has no logical meaning. CGI from 1960's is just not plausible. Rockets work in space and have been predicted to work at high altitude and space for hundreds of years by very smart people. Tsiolkovsky being one of them. Look up his rocket equation. That one is pretty self explanatory.

What you are failing to understand is power. Releasing high mass high velocity propellant is going to get us into space. At this current time thats about the easiest way we can do it. Until they start using ion thrusters that is.

Or do you beleive ion thrusters are fake aswell?
« Last Edit: February 21, 2016, 01:23:15 PM by TylerJRB »

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Rama Set

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Re: Rockets cannot work in a Vacuum.
« Reply #1012 on: February 21, 2016, 01:27:54 PM »

The reason a rocket works in space and why you cannot pull yourself up by your own arms is simple. You are not causing newtons 3rd and conservation of momentum to take effect. You are not releasing mass. Now take away gravity, air. Then cut off your own arm and throw it away. Will you move?[/b]

You are pushing your own arm away just like a rocket pushes a part of its own mass away.

Not hard to understand is it?


Looks like (many of) you are incredibly confused about how things are able to move. I will educate you.

Newtons First Law

An object will remain at rest, or continue in motion, unless acted upon by an external force.

Let's say we have a football, at rest, on a table. How can we move it? We could poke it with a finger. We could blow on it. We could lift one side of the table.

Q: What do all of these methods for moving the football have in common?
A: They apply an unbalanced force on the football.

Now imagine that someone swaps the football for one made of lead and covers it to look like the football we moved previously. They ask us to blow on it again, which we do. This time, our breath is not sufficient to overcome the normal force of the lead ball. We blow and blow and it goes nowhere. We poke it with our finger which will move it, but it takes much more force on our part. The same with lifting the table to allow gravity to accelerate it toward the floor. More force required to overcome the normal force of the lead ball.

All of these examples are able to cause something to accelerate without hurling mass which the space cultists are obsessed with.

They work by applying an unbalanced force on an object.

That is all you need to understand Newtons first law.

No need to imagine two molecules in a chamber, or a grenade exploding in space. When you have digested (and squabbled over) that, I'll move on to the second law.

2 Questions: 

1. Have you consulted with a working engineer or physicist on this?

2. Why should we trust someone who has a complete double standard for what constitutes valid evidence.

Aether is the  characteristic of action or inaction of charged  & noncharged particals.

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sokarul

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Re: Rockets cannot work in a Vacuum.
« Reply #1013 on: February 21, 2016, 01:29:58 PM »
A few members.

So a few members are mistaken about how a rocket works?

Care to name them?

Excluding myself, legion, sceptimatic & hoppy of course...

NAME THEM HERETICS NOW!

This just gets better & better...
No, I don't care to name them.
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It's no slur if it's fact.

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legion

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Re: Rockets cannot work in a Vacuum.
« Reply #1014 on: February 21, 2016, 01:35:02 PM »

The reason a rocket works in space and why you cannot pull yourself up by your own arms is simple. You are not causing newtons 3rd and conservation of momentum to take effect. You are not releasing mass. Now take away gravity, air. Then cut off your own arm and throw it away. Will you move?[/b]

You are pushing your own arm away just like a rocket pushes a part of its own mass away.

Not hard to understand is it?


Looks like (many of) you are incredibly confused about how things are able to move. I will educate you.

Newtons First Law

An object will remain at rest, or continue in motion, unless acted upon by an external force.

Let's say we have a football, at rest, on a table. How can we move it? We could poke it with a finger. We could blow on it. We could lift one side of the table.

Q: What do all of these methods for moving the football have in common?
A: They apply an unbalanced force on the football.

Now imagine that someone swaps the football for one made of lead and covers it to look like the football we moved previously. They ask us to blow on it again, which we do. This time, our breath is not sufficient to overcome the normal force of the lead ball. We blow and blow and it goes nowhere. We poke it with our finger which will move it, but it takes much more force on our part. The same with lifting the table to allow gravity to accelerate it toward the floor. More force required to overcome the normal force of the lead ball.

All of these examples are able to cause something to accelerate without hurling mass which the space cultists are obsessed with.

They work by applying an unbalanced force on an object.

That is all you need to understand Newtons first law.

No need to imagine two molecules in a chamber, or a grenade exploding in space. When you have digested (and squabbled over) that, I'll move on to the second law.

2 Questions: 

1. Have you consulted with a working engineer or physicist on this?

2. Why should we trust someone who has a complete double standard for what constitutes valid evidence.

No refutation of my argument? Thought not.

Next.
"Indoctrination [...] is often distinguished from education by the fact that the indoctrinated person is expected not to question or critically examine the doctrine they have learned".

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sokarul

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Re: Rockets cannot work in a Vacuum.
« Reply #1015 on: February 21, 2016, 01:38:32 PM »
Do you blow balls often?

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Rama Set

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Re: Rockets cannot work in a Vacuum.
« Reply #1016 on: February 21, 2016, 01:39:04 PM »

No refutation of my argument? Thought not.

Next.

I sure can.  There have been multiple videos of rockets working in a vacuum chamber.  I have known these videos for some time, therefore they constitute valid evidence.  Ergo, you are wrong.
Aether is the  characteristic of action or inaction of charged  & noncharged particals.

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legion

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Re: Rockets cannot work in a Vacuum.
« Reply #1017 on: February 21, 2016, 01:45:50 PM »

No refutation of my argument? Thought not.

Next.

I sure can.  There have been multiple videos of rockets working in a vacuum chamber.  I have known these videos for some time, therefore they constitute valid evidence.  Ergo, you are wrong.

rama, humour is out of your reach. As is intellect. Maybe in the next life, eh?
"Indoctrination [...] is often distinguished from education by the fact that the indoctrinated person is expected not to question or critically examine the doctrine they have learned".

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Rama Set

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Re: Rockets cannot work in a Vacuum.
« Reply #1018 on: February 21, 2016, 01:49:27 PM »

No refutation of my argument? Thought not.

Next.

I sure can.  There have been multiple videos of rockets working in a vacuum chamber.  I have known these videos for some time, therefore they constitute valid evidence.  Ergo, you are wrong.

rama, humour is out of your reach. As is intellect. Maybe in the next life, eh?

So you have nothing, got it.
Aether is the  characteristic of action or inaction of charged  & noncharged particals.

?

Empirical

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Re: Rockets cannot work in a Vacuum.
« Reply #1019 on: February 21, 2016, 01:50:47 PM »
A few members.

So a few members are mistaken about how a rocket works?

Care to name them?

Excluding myself, legion, sceptimatic & hoppy of course... because everyone already knows we haven't got a fucking clue about how they work.

NAME THEM HERETICS NOW!

This just gets better & better...