Explain circumpolar stars in the southern hemisphere.

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Empirical

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Explain circumpolar stars in the southern hemisphere.
« on: January 14, 2016, 01:09:27 PM »
A circumpolar star is a star that never sets because it is near a pole, (this is relative, as you get closer to the equator less stars never set).
Here is an animation that shows how circumpolar stars work in RET http://astro.unl.edu/naap/motion2/animations/ce_hc.html (turn all the checkboxs on)
In FET you woudn't get stars that never set in the south pole, how come you do?

On a related note, how can star maps like this, http://www.astroviewer.com/index.php , work when they "wrongly assume" that the earth is round.
« Last Edit: January 15, 2016, 12:39:41 AM by Empirical »

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legion

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Re: Explain circumpolar stars in the southern hemisphere.
« Reply #1 on: January 14, 2016, 01:14:59 PM »
A circumpolar star is a star that never sets because it is near a poll, (this is relative, as you get closer to the equator more stars never set).
Here is an animation that shows how circumpolar stars work in RET http://astro.unl.edu/naap/motion2/animations/ce_hc.html (turn all the checkboxs on)
In FET you woudn't get stars that never set in the south poll, how come you do?

On a related note, how can star maps like this, http://www.astroviewer.com/index.php , work when they "wrongly assume" that the earth is round.

Do you mean, "pole"? Or, this:

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poll
pəʊl/
noun
noun: poll; plural noun: polls; plural noun: the polls

    1.
    the process of voting in an election.
    "the country went to the polls on March 10"
    synonyms:   vote, ballot, show of hands, straw vote/poll, referendum, plebiscite, election
    "the electoral rules provided for a second-round poll"
"Indoctrination [...] is often distinguished from education by the fact that the indoctrinated person is expected not to question or critically examine the doctrine they have learned".

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Empirical

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Re: Explain circumpolar stars in the southern hemisphere.
« Reply #2 on: January 14, 2016, 01:19:56 PM »
Did you really need to ask that?

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legion

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Re: Explain circumpolar stars in the southern hemisphere.
« Reply #3 on: January 14, 2016, 01:22:45 PM »
Yes, I did. You used the word "poll", twice. Maybe your brain may get stronger if you use it, rather than looking at silly space apps on the web.
"Indoctrination [...] is often distinguished from education by the fact that the indoctrinated person is expected not to question or critically examine the doctrine they have learned".

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Empirical

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Re: Explain circumpolar stars in the southern hemisphere.
« Reply #4 on: January 14, 2016, 01:26:36 PM »
So you were unable to know which one I ment from context, maybe you need to use your brain more.

But back on topic,
The second app I linked can predict where the stars will be in advance, how does it still work if the earth is flat.
But by main question is this
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In FET you woudn't get stars that never set in the south pole, how come you do?
« Last Edit: January 14, 2016, 01:28:31 PM by Empirical »

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legion

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Re: Explain circumpolar stars in the southern hemisphere.
« Reply #5 on: January 14, 2016, 01:32:52 PM »
So you were unable to know which one I ment meant from context, maybe you need to use your brain more.

But back on topic,
The second app I linked can predict where the stars will be in advance, how does it still work if the earth is flat.
But by main question is this
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In FET you woudn't get stars that never set in the south pole, how come you do?

And you expect us to debate you based on the results from a couple of web apps?

I'm out.
"Indoctrination [...] is often distinguished from education by the fact that the indoctrinated person is expected not to question or critically examine the doctrine they have learned".

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Empirical

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Re: Explain circumpolar stars in the southern hemisphere.
« Reply #6 on: January 14, 2016, 01:35:27 PM »
You are out because you can't explain it, don't try lying, your bad at it.
Also it's funny that someone who says that following the rest of society is bad, complains that I don't follow the spelling that said society created. You appear to be indoctinated to have to spell correctly.

Can anyone answer how you get stars that never set in the southen hemisphere.
« Last Edit: January 15, 2016, 12:38:21 AM by Empirical »

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Empirical

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Re: Explain circumpolar stars in the southern hemisphere.
« Reply #7 on: January 15, 2016, 12:38:40 AM »
Bump.

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Rayzor

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Re: Explain circumpolar stars in the southern hemisphere.
« Reply #8 on: January 15, 2016, 04:58:27 AM »
You are out because you can't explain it, don't try lying, your bad at it.
Also it's funny that someone who says that following the rest of society is bad, complains that I don't follow the spelling that said society created. You appear to be indoctinated to have to spell correctly.

Can anyone answer how you get stars that never set in the southen hemisphere.

I  would have preferred a flat earther to do this,  but they aren't around much  all we seem to get is youtube bunnies.

Imagine you are standing on a fixed flat earth,  and the earth is surrounded by a sphere,  the celestial sphere containing the fixed stars is rotating on an axis which has the north pole at one end and the south pole at the other  (  please don't ask me for a map ).    That will satisfy the SCP observations  without requiring the earth to be a globe.  Then add extra celestial spheres for each of the planets and a few for comets.    What do you get...   you get the Ptolemaic system.   which is of course geometrically equivalent to the Copernican system.   

You'd  still have to explain why you can't see the SCP from north of the equator,  but given they can't explain sunsets,  I'd not be too fussed,


Stop gilding the pickle, you demisexual aromantic homoflexible snowflake.

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Empirical

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Re: Explain circumpolar stars in the southern hemisphere.
« Reply #9 on: January 15, 2016, 05:31:13 AM »
The FE has no south pole?
Also I still don't get how a star can never set in the south. The most southern stars would travel around the edge of disk disk, so over the night the star will go from one side of the disk to the other side, wouldn't the stars get further that the northern star over the night.

Also if the earth is flat and the stars are in a rotating sphere, why is the celestial equator at a different angle to the ground depending on your location.
« Last Edit: January 15, 2016, 05:54:50 AM by Empirical »

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Empirical

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Re: Explain circumpolar stars in the southern hemisphere.
« Reply #10 on: January 16, 2016, 12:06:34 AM »
Bump

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rabinoz

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Re: Explain circumpolar stars in the southern hemisphere.
« Reply #11 on: January 16, 2016, 12:21:49 AM »
Bump
I hope you have more luck this time. I got virtually accused of being subversive for pushing the obvious answer in a similar thread.   

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Slemon

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Re: Explain circumpolar stars in the southern hemisphere.
« Reply #12 on: January 16, 2016, 02:30:19 AM »
I think the only one who's tried to answer this question is JRowe, and he seems to have left. Basically he had both hemispheres existing as separate disks.
We all know deep in our hearts that Jane is the last face we'll see before we're choked to death!

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Empirical

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Re: Explain circumpolar stars in the southern hemisphere.
« Reply #13 on: January 16, 2016, 08:17:27 AM »
If the earth is flat and the stars are in a rotating sphere, why is the celestial equator at a different angle to the ground depending on your location?

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29silhouette

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Re: Explain circumpolar stars in the southern hemisphere.
« Reply #14 on: January 16, 2016, 08:42:17 AM »
You are out because you can't explain it, don't try lying, your bad at it.
Also it's funny that someone who says that following the rest of society is bad, complains that I don't follow the spelling that said society created. You appear to be indoctinated to have to spell correctly.

Can anyone answer how you get stars that never set in the southen hemisphere.

I  would have preferred a flat earther to do this,  but they aren't around much  all we seem to get is youtube bunnies.

Imagine you are standing on a fixed flat earth,  and the earth is surrounded by a sphere,  the celestial sphere containing the fixed stars is rotating on an axis which has the north pole at one end and the south pole at the other  (  please don't ask me for a map ).    That will satisfy the SCP observations  without requiring the earth to be a globe.  Then add extra celestial spheres for each of the planets and a few for comets.    What do you get...   you get the Ptolemaic system.   which is of course geometrically equivalent to the Copernican system.   

You'd  still have to explain why you can't see the SCP from north of the equator,  but given they can't explain sunsets,  I'd not be too fussed,
Is this celestial sphere's axis parallel with the surface of Earth?  How would a celestial sphere result in polar stars being seen at angles ranging from the horizon to directly overhead if Earth is flat?  Also, if the axis is parallel with the surface, one would go to the north pole and see polaris to the south, and around the southern rim looking south the star rotation would be that as seen from the equator with only one spot looking toward the southern polar stars, which will again be on the horizon instead of overhead.  Another point along the southern rim would be looking south toward the north star.

Or maybe it would work in a way I'm not realizing?

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Alpha2Omega

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Re: Explain circumpolar stars in the southern hemisphere.
« Reply #15 on: January 16, 2016, 01:17:02 PM »
The FE has no south pole?

That depends on who you ask. It seems few agree with anyone else about what the Earth looks like, other than "it must be flat because it looks flat to me sometimes".

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Also I still don't get how a star can never set in the south. The most southern stars would travel around the edge of disk disk, so over the night the star will go from one side of the disk to the other side, wouldn't the stars get further that the northern star over the night.

Also if the earth is flat and the stars are in a rotating sphere, why is the celestial equator at a different angle to the ground depending on your location.

Some say the Earth is a disk with the North Pole at the center and the stars rotate around that - the "unipolar" model. Others say it's a disk with the North Pole at one point and the South Pole at another, and there are two sets of stars, with one set rotating around each of the poles, in opposite directions, and "mesh" at the equator - the "bipolar" model. A relative newcomer posits that the Earth is a disk with a nearly-flat Northern Hemisphere on one side and nearly-flat Southern Hemisphere on the other - "dual-earth". There are others, of course, like an infinite plane, and the "Ice Dome" which is so incoherently explained that few, if any, other than its originator have any idea what it is supposed to be like, and it's unclear if he does either.

Each has obvious deficiencies. The unipolar flat earth has no way to explain southern circumpolar stars at all. To people in the Northern Hemisphere who don't get out much and believe only what they see for themselves or otherwise want to believe, they simply don't seem to exist and therefore this is of no concern. The bipolar model explains what you'd see from each of the poles, but stars on different sides of the Celestial Equator would constantly change in angular distance from each other, which simply isn't seen in the sky. It also fails to competently explain why you would only see half the stars from any given point at any given time. Dual-earth also explains nicely what you'd see at each pole and also why you only see one hemisphere's worth from there, but not, plausibly, how you can see more than a few of the stars in the other hemisphere as you move closer to the equator. Nor is there a sensible explanation how you can go from one side of the disk, at the equator, to the other without noticing what would be very obvious effects. Note "sensible" in that sentence.

The reason you get such fragmented and ill-fitting ideas is, of course, because the Earth isn't flat, so there's no neat way to make straightforward observations fit a flat-earth model.

"Everyone is entitled to his own opinion, but not to his own facts." - Daniel Patrick Moynihan

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Dinosaur Neil

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Re: Explain circumpolar stars in the southern hemisphere.
« Reply #16 on: January 16, 2016, 01:26:35 PM »
I have a thread offering a cash prize to anyone who can answer this.
Founder member of the League Of Scientific Gentlemen and Mademoiselles des Connaissances.
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Empirical

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Re: Explain circumpolar stars in the southern hemisphere.
« Reply #17 on: January 17, 2016, 01:20:48 AM »
So no flat earthers can answer it, they don't have a working model of the stars. A working one has existed for thousands of years, yet the FES can't get them to work on their model, what does that imply.

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Rayzor

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Re: Explain circumpolar stars in the southern hemisphere.
« Reply #18 on: January 17, 2016, 01:24:06 AM »
I have a thread offering a cash prize to anyone who can answer this.

The earth is a globe,  how do I collect my money?
Stop gilding the pickle, you demisexual aromantic homoflexible snowflake.

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Empirical

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Re: Explain circumpolar stars in the southern hemisphere.
« Reply #19 on: January 17, 2016, 03:18:55 AM »
RET is the only model that can explain the stars then?

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Slemon

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Re: Explain circumpolar stars in the southern hemisphere.
« Reply #20 on: January 17, 2016, 03:24:23 AM »
I have a thread offering a cash prize to anyone who can answer this.
You never said anything was wrong with my entry on page five, so I won  ;D
We all know deep in our hearts that Jane is the last face we'll see before we're choked to death!

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Dinosaur Neil

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Re: Explain circumpolar stars in the southern hemisphere.
« Reply #21 on: January 17, 2016, 01:38:09 PM »
I have a thread offering a cash prize to anyone who can answer this.

The earth is a globe,  how do I collect my money?

See the thread for the rules of claiming. Unlike Heiwa, I will honour  fulfillment of the terms.
Founder member of the League Of Scientific Gentlemen and Mademoiselles des Connaissances.
I am pompous, self-righteous, thin skinned, and smug.

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Empirical

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Re: Explain circumpolar stars in the southern hemisphere.
« Reply #22 on: January 17, 2016, 03:37:47 PM »
So the only response from a FEer is a spelling correction. wow

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Empirical

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Re: Explain circumpolar stars in the southern hemisphere.
« Reply #23 on: January 18, 2016, 01:28:51 PM »
The question the thread asks might to be clear, I give a simpler example.
If your at the most southern points of Africa, South America and Australia, part of the southen cross will never go below the horision, I can see no way that this can work on a flat earth.
How do I know they never go below the horizon, star maps. And unlike a map of the earth, a map of the stars isn't posible to fake successfully, you can easily check the map is correct from looking at the sky at night. If the star maps were faked, some astronomers would of noticed.

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Dinosaur Neil

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Re: Explain circumpolar stars in the southern hemisphere.
« Reply #24 on: January 18, 2016, 02:51:52 PM »
I have a thread offering a cash prize to anyone who can answer this.
You never said anything was wrong with my entry on page five, so I won  ;D

I don't remember that - let me go back and think of a loophole.
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I am pompous, self-righteous, thin skinned, and smug.

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Dinosaur Neil

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Re: Explain circumpolar stars in the southern hemisphere.
« Reply #25 on: January 18, 2016, 03:00:45 PM »
It turns out that I found a wizard, and asked him to demonstrate magic, and he couldn't. Sorry.  ;)
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Luke 22:35-38

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Re: Explain circumpolar stars in the southern hemisphere.
« Reply #26 on: January 18, 2016, 04:34:36 PM »
This got quiet quick.
Scripture, facts, science, stats, and logic is how I argue.

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rabinoz

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Re: Explain circumpolar stars in the southern hemisphere.
« Reply #27 on: January 18, 2016, 10:29:14 PM »
So the only response from a FEer is a spelling correction. wow
Well maybe not a FEer?
3. I am not a flat earther. Just because I'm on this site does not mean I am. Or if it does, then you must be one as well.
What then? Don't ask me, I just remembered an earlier quote!

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Slemon

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Re: Explain circumpolar stars in the southern hemisphere.
« Reply #28 on: January 19, 2016, 07:42:01 AM »
It turns out that I found a wizard, and asked him to demonstrate magic, and he couldn't. Sorry.  ;)

But how did you confirm they were in fact a wizard?  :o If they can't demonstrate magic, they don't sound like much of a wizard to me.

The magic theory remains the only working FE answer for circumpolar stars. Well, that and JRowe, but hey, no one cares about him.
We all know deep in our hearts that Jane is the last face we'll see before we're choked to death!

Re: Explain circumpolar stars in the southern hemisphere.
« Reply #29 on: January 20, 2016, 04:22:31 PM »
It turns out that I found a wizard, and asked him to demonstrate magic, and he couldn't. Sorry.  ;)

But how did you confirm they were in fact a wizard?  :o If they can't demonstrate magic, they don't sound like much of a wizard to me.

The magic theory remains the only working FE answer for circumpolar stars. Well, that and JRowe, but hey, no one cares about him.

Though I am not an expert in this field, I would humbly draw your attention to refraction, reflection and all other kinds of optical distortions and atmospheric effects, alone or combined. RET widely uses this explanation, in combination with innuendoes on individual or collective hallucination and/or impaired vision, if necessary. I'm surprised I have to remind you that.

For example, this is how Wikipedia explains the famous Miracle of the Sun:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Miracle_of_the_Sun
« Last Edit: January 20, 2016, 04:34:50 PM by Humble_Scientist »
"It is not necessary that hypotheses should be true, or even probable; it is sufficient that they lead to results of calculation which agree with calculation".
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