Simple observation that the sun sets below the horizon

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Simple observation that the sun sets below the horizon
« on: January 13, 2016, 05:33:27 PM »
There is one simple observation that proves that the sun is not ~3000 miles in altitude above the earth at sunset (i.e. the sun actually sets, and does not simply move farther away):

Step 1:  View a sunset
Step 2:  Watch how the sunlight illuminates the bottom of clouds.

Voila!

Re: Simple observation that the sun sets below the horizon
« Reply #1 on: January 13, 2016, 09:58:26 PM »
But the "atmoplane" can magically bend the light up (by >15 degrees), no matter if it is hot or cold, so the clouds are iluminated from below. This is that easy.

Or is it?

Re: Simple observation that the sun sets below the horizon
« Reply #2 on: January 14, 2016, 05:28:27 AM »
But the "atmoplane" can magically bend the light up (by >15 degrees), no matter if it is hot or cold, so the clouds are iluminated from below. This is that easy.

Or is it?

That would be pretty awesome, considering that the light would need to bend both upwards to illuminate the bottom of the clouds, and downward for you to be able to see the sun so low on the horizon.

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Jadyyn

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Re: Simple observation that the sun sets below the horizon
« Reply #3 on: January 14, 2016, 10:08:41 AM »
I have a problem with #1. How is a sunset even possible?

If refraction makes things (the Sun) look HIGHER in the sky:


and the Sun is ALWAYS above the Earth:


why does it set and not look HIGHER in the sky?
“If you can't dazzle them with brilliance, baffle them with bullshit.” W.C. Fields.
"The amount of energy necessary to refute bullshit is an order of magnitude bigger than to produce it."
"What can be asserted without evidence can be dismissed without evidence."

Re: Simple observation that the sun sets below the horizon
« Reply #4 on: January 14, 2016, 10:55:20 AM »
I have a problem with #1. How is a sunset even possible?

If refraction makes things (the Sun) look HIGHER in the sky:


and the Sun is ALWAYS above the Earth:


why does it set and not look HIGHER in the sky?

Because the earth is spherical.  The fact that a sunset illuminates the bottom of the cloud layer is proof that the sun isn't some ~3,000 miles high constantly rotating in a circular orbit above a flat earth.

It's a simple conclusion based on observation that not even the zetetic method can reject.

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Gazpar

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Re: Simple observation that the sun sets below the horizon
« Reply #5 on: January 15, 2016, 06:49:12 AM »
Could the dome bend lingt down?
Pick up the can.
Pick. Up. The. Can.
I said pick up the can!

Re: Simple observation that the sun sets below the horizon
« Reply #6 on: January 15, 2016, 09:20:33 AM »
Could the dome bend lingt down?
What dome?
Quote from: mikeman7918
a single photon can pass through two sluts

Quote from: Chicken Fried Clucker
if Donald Trump stuck his penis in me after trying on clothes I would have that date and time burned in my head.

Re: Simple observation that the sun sets below the horizon
« Reply #7 on: January 15, 2016, 10:58:43 AM »
Could the dome bend lingt down?

Think about the physics required for that -- the light would need to travel down ~3000 miles, go beneath the cloud layer but not so far that it actually hits the ground, then arc back up to illuminate the underside of the clouds.  Light isn't a boomerang.

Moreover, while the bottom of the cloud layer is illuminated after sunset, the top of the clouds aren't illuminated whatsoever.  Take a flight just after sunset to confirm this for yourself.

TL;DR:  The sun actually sets, disproving both the flat earth solar model and the infinite plane model.

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Gazpar

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Re: Simple observation that the sun sets below the horizon
« Reply #8 on: January 15, 2016, 12:11:58 PM »
Could the dome bend lingt down?
What dome?
I though that was a common belief in FE's.
Could the dome bend light down?


Think about the physics required for that -- the light would need to travel down ~3000 miles, go beneath the cloud layer but not so far that it actually hits the ground, then arc back up to illuminate the underside of the clouds.  Light isn't a boomerang.

Moreover, while the bottom of the cloud layer is illuminated after sunset, the top of the clouds aren't illuminated whatsoever.  Take a flight just after sunset to confirm this for yourself.

TL;DR:  The sun actually sets, disproving both the flat earth solar model and the infinite plane model.
So it sets.
Pick up the can.
Pick. Up. The. Can.
I said pick up the can!

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Jadyyn

  • 1533
Re: Simple observation that the sun sets below the horizon
« Reply #9 on: January 15, 2016, 12:30:21 PM »
Could the dome bend lingt down?
What dome?
I though that was a common belief in FE's.
Could the dome bend light down?


Think about the physics required for that -- the light would need to travel down ~3000 miles, go beneath the cloud layer but not so far that it actually hits the ground, then arc back up to illuminate the underside of the clouds.  Light isn't a boomerang.

Moreover, while the bottom of the cloud layer is illuminated after sunset, the top of the clouds aren't illuminated whatsoever.  Take a flight just after sunset to confirm this for yourself.

TL;DR:  The sun actually sets, disproving both the flat earth solar model and the infinite plane model.
So it sets.
From what I've seen, every FEer has a different model. When discussing the TFES model, someone pipes up with their different model to answer questions because no one model works for everything. Some have domes, others have aether that acts like a dome, some don't have domes at all. All don't have gravity, but some use UA, others denpressure. Some have a Sun 3000 mi up, others say it isn't. Sometimes light bends in extraordinary ways, sometimes it goes straight (even in the same model). It depends on what you are discussing which person/model is used. There is no FEF model - just a bunch of ad hoc explanations.
“If you can't dazzle them with brilliance, baffle them with bullshit.” W.C. Fields.
"The amount of energy necessary to refute bullshit is an order of magnitude bigger than to produce it."
"What can be asserted without evidence can be dismissed without evidence."

*

Gazpar

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Re: Simple observation that the sun sets below the horizon
« Reply #10 on: January 15, 2016, 12:34:19 PM »
Well, then we cannot agree on what FE model is valid.
PS: I have heard the sun's height changes through the year. I dont know how would this account for it's apparent movement in the sky.
« Last Edit: January 15, 2016, 12:51:37 PM by Gazpar »
Pick up the can.
Pick. Up. The. Can.
I said pick up the can!

?

Jadyyn

  • 1533
Re: Simple observation that the sun sets below the horizon
« Reply #11 on: January 15, 2016, 12:42:49 PM »
Well, then we cannot agree on what FE model is valid.
PS: I have heard the sun's height changes through the year. I don't know how would this account it apparent movement.
Exactly... that is why these threads go on and on and on.

Oh, BTW, the next thing is virtually all threads end up derailing to proving/disproving RET/heliocentricity instead of describing how the Flat Earth Fantasy (FEF) handles things because it usually can't.

ALL FE models have problems with astronomy. Most FEers don't know astronomy 101 and will never look through a telescope. So virtually everything in the sky is wrong in any model. Discussing the sky with a 5 yr old - hand-waving - will probably work, but not with anyone who has used a telescope.

Since FEers don't actually know how high or big the Sun is or how it moves or how it shines it's "spotlight" on the Earth, things like sunsets are purely theoretical at best. Try to explain sunsets in these situations:
« Last Edit: January 15, 2016, 12:45:33 PM by Jadyyn »
“If you can't dazzle them with brilliance, baffle them with bullshit.” W.C. Fields.
"The amount of energy necessary to refute bullshit is an order of magnitude bigger than to produce it."
"What can be asserted without evidence can be dismissed without evidence."

*

Gazpar

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  • Anticitizen One.
Re: Simple observation that the sun sets below the horizon
« Reply #12 on: January 15, 2016, 12:53:59 PM »
Well, then we cannot agree on what FE model is valid.
PS: I have heard the sun's height changes through the year. I don't know how would this account it apparent movement.
Exactly... that is why these threads go on and on and on.

Oh, BTW, the next thing is virtually all threads end up derailing to proving/disproving RET/heliocentricity instead of describing how the Flat Earth Fantasy (FEF) handles things because it usually can't.

ALL FE models have problems with astronomy. Most FEers don't know astronomy 101 and will never look through a telescope. So virtually everything in the sky is wrong in any model. Discussing the sky with a 5 yr old - hand-waving - will probably work, but not with anyone who has used a telescope.

Since FEers don't actually know how high or big the Sun is or how it moves or how it shines it's "spotlight" on the Earth, things like sunsets are purely theoretical at best. Try to explain sunsets in these situations:

The aether?
Pick up the can.
Pick. Up. The. Can.
I said pick up the can!

*

Luke 22:35-38

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Re: Simple observation that the sun sets below the horizon
« Reply #13 on: January 15, 2016, 02:38:42 PM »
Well, then we cannot agree on what FE model is valid.
PS: I have heard the sun's height changes through the year. I don't know how would this account it apparent movement.
Exactly... that is why these threads go on and on and on.

Oh, BTW, the next thing is virtually all threads end up derailing to proving/disproving RET/heliocentricity instead of describing how the Flat Earth Fantasy (FEF) handles things because it usually can't.

ALL FE models have problems with astronomy. Most FEers don't know astronomy 101 and will never look through a telescope. So virtually everything in the sky is wrong in any model. Discussing the sky with a 5 yr old - hand-waving - will probably work, but not with anyone who has used a telescope.

Since FEers don't actually know how high or big the Sun is or how it moves or how it shines it's "spotlight" on the Earth, things like sunsets are purely theoretical at best. Try to explain sunsets in these situations:

The aether?

Aether to FEs is like duck tape to rednecks. It solves everything. The only problem is they never proved Aether exists in the first place and never show'd that it acts the way they say it does.
The Bible doesn't support a flat earth.

Scripture, facts, science, stats, and logic is how I argue.

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robintex

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Re: Simple observation that the sun sets below the horizon
« Reply #14 on: January 15, 2016, 03:08:17 PM »
Could the dome bend lingt down?
What dome?
I though that was a common belief in FE's.
Could the dome bend light down?


Think about the physics required for that -- the light would need to travel down ~3000 miles, go beneath the cloud layer but not so far that it actually hits the ground, then arc back up to illuminate the underside of the clouds.  Light isn't a boomerang.

Moreover, while the bottom of the cloud layer is illuminated after sunset, the top of the clouds aren't illuminated whatsoever.  Take a flight just after sunset to confirm this for yourself.

TL;DR:  The sun actually sets, disproving both the flat earth solar model and the infinite plane model.
So it sets.
From what I've seen, every FEer has a different model. When discussing the TFES model, someone pipes up with their different model to answer questions because no one model works for everything. Some have domes, others have aether that acts like a dome, some don't have domes at all. All don't have gravity, but some use UA, others denpressure. Some have a Sun 3000 mi up, others say it isn't. Sometimes light bends in extraordinary ways, sometimes it goes straight (even in the same model). It depends on what you are discussing which person/model is used. There is no FEF model - just a bunch of ad hoc explanations.

From what I have seen, and the longer you have been on this website, it seems that there is no agreement on just about anything concerning the so-called "flat earth." It seems everyone has his own "idea" about all the things you mentioned.
If something really doesn't exist it seems if you have a vivid enough imagination, you can think up a lot of things. Like L.Frank Baum did in "The Wizard of Oz." If you don't take any FE seriously it can be very entertaining. See my signature line. iWitness, sandokhan, sceptimatic and a few others seem to be the flat earth experts but from I have seen  I don't think you will find much mutual agreement with them on most flat earth "ideas." They say they are "theories" but I don't think they qualify to be in that category.

Sunset, the horizon and the distance to it......and a few other things (LOL)....seem to be the greatest of the flat earth fallacies.

As for astronomy, I have suggested time after time that flat earthers should visit an astronomical observatory......But I have yet to hear that any have ever taken me up on my invitation. Too many demons, satanists, satan believers, liars, etc. there I guess for a flat earth believer.
« Last Edit: January 15, 2016, 03:25:30 PM by Googleotomy »
Stick close , very close , to your P.C.and never go to sea
And you all may be Rulers of The Flat Earth Society

Look out your window , see what you shall see
And you all may be Rulers of The Flat Earth Society

Chorus:
Yes ! Never, never, never,  ever go to sea !

Re: Simple observation that the sun sets below the horizon
« Reply #15 on: January 16, 2016, 05:22:44 AM »
This is my actual favorite thread on here cause it clearly disproves FE unlike any other arguement and yet it hasnt been answered in any thread that it's come up in and this one has been completely ingored by FEs.

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rabinoz

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Re: Simple observation that the sun sets below the horizon
« Reply #16 on: January 18, 2016, 04:05:49 AM »
This is my actual favorite thread on here cause it clearly disproves FE unlike any other arguement and yet it hasnt been answered in any thread that it's come up in and this one has been completely ingored by FEs.
There seem to be quite a number of these questions which never attract any attention from Flat Earth Supporters.
  • Current thread: "Simple observation that the sun sets below the horizon"
  • "The length of the equator leads to impossible results.
  • "south star" not visible from northern hemisphere.
  • "Things dissapearing behind the horizon - how?" - gets the usual refraction, "Laws of Perspective" responses.
  • "Sun on the Equinox" - this had numerous replies, but no consensus, would need updating.
No doubt there are others.

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Son of Orospu

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Re: Simple observation that the sun sets below the horizon
« Reply #17 on: January 18, 2016, 04:07:50 AM »
Could the dome bend lingt down?

Think about the physics required for that -- the light would need to travel down ~3000 miles, go beneath the cloud layer but not so far that it actually hits the ground, then arc back up to illuminate the underside of the clouds.  Light isn't a boomerang.

Moreover, while the bottom of the cloud layer is illuminated after sunset, the top of the clouds aren't illuminated whatsoever.  Take a flight just after sunset to confirm this for yourself.

TL;DR:  The sun actually sets, disproving both the flat earth solar model and the infinite plane model.

Do mirrors confuse you as well? 

*

Luke 22:35-38

  • 3608
  • The earth is a globe, DUH! prove its not
Re: Simple observation that the sun sets below the horizon
« Reply #18 on: January 18, 2016, 08:55:25 AM »
Could the dome bend lingt down?

Think about the physics required for that -- the light would need to travel down ~3000 miles, go beneath the cloud layer but not so far that it actually hits the ground, then arc back up to illuminate the underside of the clouds.  Light isn't a boomerang.

Moreover, while the bottom of the cloud layer is illuminated after sunset, the top of the clouds aren't illuminated whatsoever.  Take a flight just after sunset to confirm this for yourself.

TL;DR:  The sun actually sets, disproving both the flat earth solar model and the infinite plane model.

Do mirrors confuse you as well?

And where or what are the mirrors and what proof you have that they exist?
The Bible doesn't support a flat earth.

Scripture, facts, science, stats, and logic is how I argue.

Re: Simple observation that the sun sets below the horizon
« Reply #19 on: January 18, 2016, 11:09:36 AM »
Could the dome bend lingt down?

Think about the physics required for that -- the light would need to travel down ~3000 miles, go beneath the cloud layer but not so far that it actually hits the ground, then arc back up to illuminate the underside of the clouds.  Light isn't a boomerang.

Moreover, while the bottom of the cloud layer is illuminated after sunset, the top of the clouds aren't illuminated whatsoever.  Take a flight just after sunset to confirm this for yourself.

TL;DR:  The sun actually sets, disproving both the flat earth solar model and the infinite plane model.

Do mirrors confuse you as well?

You mean as well as they confuse you?  Apparently not. 

*

Son of Orospu

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Re: Simple observation that the sun sets below the horizon
« Reply #20 on: January 18, 2016, 12:03:21 PM »
Could the dome bend lingt down?

Think about the physics required for that -- the light would need to travel down ~3000 miles, go beneath the cloud layer but not so far that it actually hits the ground, then arc back up to illuminate the underside of the clouds.  Light isn't a boomerang.

Moreover, while the bottom of the cloud layer is illuminated after sunset, the top of the clouds aren't illuminated whatsoever.  Take a flight just after sunset to confirm this for yourself.

TL;DR:  The sun actually sets, disproving both the flat earth solar model and the infinite plane model.

Do mirrors confuse you as well?

And where or what are the mirrors and what proof you have that they exist?

You questions have nothing to do with my question.  Perhaps you could try again? 

*

Son of Orospu

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Re: Simple observation that the sun sets below the horizon
« Reply #21 on: January 18, 2016, 12:04:24 PM »
Could the dome bend lingt down?

Think about the physics required for that -- the light would need to travel down ~3000 miles, go beneath the cloud layer but not so far that it actually hits the ground, then arc back up to illuminate the underside of the clouds.  Light isn't a boomerang.

Moreover, while the bottom of the cloud layer is illuminated after sunset, the top of the clouds aren't illuminated whatsoever.  Take a flight just after sunset to confirm this for yourself.

TL;DR:  The sun actually sets, disproving both the flat earth solar model and the infinite plane model.

Do mirrors confuse you as well?

You mean as well as they confuse you?  Apparently not. 

Do shiny light confuse you as well as mirrors? 

*

Luke 22:35-38

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  • The earth is a globe, DUH! prove its not
Re: Simple observation that the sun sets below the horizon
« Reply #22 on: January 18, 2016, 12:47:42 PM »
Could the dome bend lingt down?

Think about the physics required for that -- the light would need to travel down ~3000 miles, go beneath the cloud layer but not so far that it actually hits the ground, then arc back up to illuminate the underside of the clouds.  Light isn't a boomerang.

Moreover, while the bottom of the cloud layer is illuminated after sunset, the top of the clouds aren't illuminated whatsoever.  Take a flight just after sunset to confirm this for yourself.

TL;DR:  The sun actually sets, disproving both the flat earth solar model and the infinite plane model.

Do mirrors confuse you as well?

And where or what are the mirrors and what proof you have that they exist?

You questions have nothing to do with my question.  Perhaps you could try again?

How does my question NOT relate to yours? If you're saying that the sun sets due to mirrors then what are they, where are they, and how do you know they exist?
The Bible doesn't support a flat earth.

Scripture, facts, science, stats, and logic is how I argue.

Re: Simple observation that the sun sets below the horizon
« Reply #23 on: January 18, 2016, 01:53:01 PM »
Could the dome bend lingt down?

Think about the physics required for that -- the light would need to travel down ~3000 miles, go beneath the cloud layer but not so far that it actually hits the ground, then arc back up to illuminate the underside of the clouds.  Light isn't a boomerang.

Moreover, while the bottom of the cloud layer is illuminated after sunset, the top of the clouds aren't illuminated whatsoever.  Take a flight just after sunset to confirm this for yourself.

TL;DR:  The sun actually sets, disproving both the flat earth solar model and the infinite plane model.

Do mirrors confuse you as well?
So the ground is a mirror?

Re: Simple observation that the sun sets below the horizon
« Reply #24 on: January 18, 2016, 03:05:12 PM »
The sun setting is an observation from a particular point at one time.  At the same time it is rising for someone elsewhere.  All fully documented.

Re: Simple observation that the sun sets below the horizon
« Reply #25 on: January 18, 2016, 03:20:55 PM »
http://www.timeanddate.com/worldclock/sunearth.html
How does this map work when the earth is flat?

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rabinoz

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Re: Simple observation that the sun sets below the horizon
« Reply #26 on: January 18, 2016, 03:37:03 PM »
Do mirrors confuse you as well?

And where or what are the mirrors and what proof you have that they exist?

You questions have nothing to do with my question.  Perhaps you could try again?
I would say that if Lukes "questions have nothing to do with" your question, then your question had no relevancy to the post.
You have not shown how mirrors can come into it at all.  And yes, I can guess what you might say, but what about being upfront about it.  Mirrors (or lakes, rivers, oceans or other bodies of water) are not needed, especially as the illumination under the clouds can appear just before sunrise and just after sunset.

Re: Simple observation that the sun sets below the horizon
« Reply #27 on: January 19, 2016, 05:00:14 AM »
Could the dome bend lingt down?

Think about the physics required for that -- the light would need to travel down ~3000 miles, go beneath the cloud layer but not so far that it actually hits the ground, then arc back up to illuminate the underside of the clouds.  Light isn't a boomerang.

Moreover, while the bottom of the cloud layer is illuminated after sunset, the top of the clouds aren't illuminated whatsoever.  Take a flight just after sunset to confirm this for yourself.

TL;DR:  The sun actually sets, disproving both the flat earth solar model and the infinite plane model.

Do mirrors confuse you as well?

You mean as well as they confuse you?  Apparently not. 

Do shiny light confuse you as well as mirrors?

I think your computer is broken.  It seems that it can only generate stupid outputs.

Re: Simple observation that the sun sets below the horizon
« Reply #28 on: January 23, 2016, 04:44:54 PM »
Could the dome bend lingt down?

Think about the physics required for that -- the light would need to travel down ~3000 miles, go beneath the cloud layer but not so far that it actually hits the ground, then arc back up to illuminate the underside of the clouds.  Light isn't a boomerang.

Moreover, while the bottom of the cloud layer is illuminated after sunset, the top of the clouds aren't illuminated whatsoever.  Take a flight just after sunset to confirm this for yourself.

TL;DR:  The sun actually sets, disproving both the flat earth solar model and the infinite plane model.

Do mirrors confuse you as well?
So the ground is a mirror?


Can't be, I looked out my window and didn't see any mirrors

*

rabinoz

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Re: Simple observation that the sun sets below the horizon
« Reply #29 on: January 26, 2016, 03:25:10 AM »
Could the dome bend lingt down?

Think about the physics required for that -- the light would need to travel down ~3000 miles, go beneath the cloud layer but not so far that it actually hits the ground, then arc back up to illuminate the underside of the clouds.  Light isn't a boomerang.

Moreover, while the bottom of the cloud layer is illuminated after sunset, the top of the clouds aren't illuminated whatsoever.  Take a flight just after sunset to confirm this for yourself.
TL;DR:  The sun actually sets, disproving both the flat earth solar model and the infinite plane model.
Do mirrors confuse you as well?
So the ground is a mirror?
Can't be, I looked out my window and didn't see any mirrors

I think their derailer-in-chief (jroa) has struck again!
I know that I seem to see the sun and moon rise from behind the horizon, stay the same size as they move across the sky and set behind the horizon! Just not tonight, too cloudy!