The impossibilities of Flat Earth - intellectual debate

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Son of Orospu

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Re: The impossibilities of Flat Earth - intellectual debate
« Reply #120 on: December 18, 2015, 02:47:23 PM »
What is the general belief regarding other planets?

Do we think all planets are flat?
Good question, but it seems impossible to have a flat Mercury and Venus as the phases can be observed.

Also the Sun must be spherical in the Flat Earth idea as it looks circular from wherever you are on Earth and only spheres can produce that effect.

I'm often out with my telescope, yet to observe a flat planet  ;)

I was interested to hear what flat earthers opinions were on this, is planet Earth the exception?

You have a 3D viewing telescope?  Cool!

So, you are saying my telescope is telling lies and deceiving me?

It's funny, because I have pointed it at terrestrial objects and they seem a true representation of the physical thing.

For example, hot air balloons do not appear flat, and seemingly flat objects do not appear rounded.

So, then, your telescope does not really see in 3D and you simply lied?  That is disappointing.  I thought you had some sort of magical telescope that allowed you to see 3D images instead of 2D ones.  Now, I am sad for having been deceived.

I looked through telescopes before and round things look round and flat things look flat. You can do this at home. Have your telescope point at a flat object and see if it looks like a sphere.

Round is a 2D shape, just to let you know.

You know what I meant. I meant that globes look like globes and discs look like discs.

So, I am supposed to respond to what you meant, not what you said? 

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Son of Orospu

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Re: The impossibilities of Flat Earth - intellectual debate
« Reply #121 on: December 18, 2015, 02:50:54 PM »
There are many, many donkeys in a drove living their lives confined within a fence line on the ranch. They share in the bounty of food and drink served to them for a lifetime.  Drinking from the trough and enjoying the groundnut hay, sorghum stover, and salt lick without ever realizing the variety of food and drink existing outside of the ranch.

There is a team of thoroughbreds who came across the drove, amused by the limited vision the donkeys possessed even though the pack seemed convinced this ranch life extended to the rest of land they inhabited.

The thoroughbreds had traveled the width and breadth of the land experiencing first-hand reality around them, enjoying fresh water from the stream and consuming the rich sources of available food offered in nature. 

Try as they may, the thoroughbreds could not convince the drove that there is something beyond what they experience on the ranch.  The drove had a reputation for obstinacy and an inability to comprehend that a treasure exists in reality...and that reality is what we call the truth. 

Their reputation, as demonstrated, exists to this day since the knowledge brought forth by the thoroughbreds continues to be disregarded.

Reported for derailment and off-topic posting.

A parable or fable is not a derailment.  If it was, the whole Bible would be one derailment after another.  I am giving you an official warning for Troublemaking and abuse of the report function.  Please be considerate and contribute to forum threads constructively.  Thanks.
It is when it added nothing to this intellectual debate. How do you call yourself a Mod?

Which part of this debate is intellectual?  We have roundies claiming all kinds of preposterous things without a shred of evidence to back any of it up, and you coming in to memberate.  Same old same old...

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JustThatOneGuy

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Re: The impossibilities of Flat Earth - intellectual debate
« Reply #122 on: December 18, 2015, 03:10:00 PM »
There are many, many donkeys in a drove living their lives confined within a fence line on the ranch. They share in the bounty of food and drink served to them for a lifetime.  Drinking from the trough and enjoying the groundnut hay, sorghum stover, and salt lick without ever realizing the variety of food and drink existing outside of the ranch.

There is a team of thoroughbreds who came across the drove, amused by the limited vision the donkeys possessed even though the pack seemed convinced this ranch life extended to the rest of land they inhabited.

The thoroughbreds had traveled the width and breadth of the land experiencing first-hand reality around them, enjoying fresh water from the stream and consuming the rich sources of available food offered in nature. 

Try as they may, the thoroughbreds could not convince the drove that there is something beyond what they experience on the ranch.  The drove had a reputation for obstinacy and an inability to comprehend that a treasure exists in reality...and that reality is what we call the truth. 

Their reputation, as demonstrated, exists to this day since the knowledge brought forth by the thoroughbreds continues to be disregarded.

Reported for derailment and off-topic posting.

A parable or fable is not a derailment.  If it was, the whole Bible would be one derailment after another.  I am giving you an official warning for Troublemaking and abuse of the report function.  Please be considerate and contribute to forum threads constructively.  Thanks.
It is when it added nothing to this intellectual debate. How do you call yourself a Mod?

Which part of this debate is intellectual?  We have roundies claiming all kinds of preposterous things without a shred of evidence to back any of it up, and you coming in to memberate.  Same old same old...
And, we have jroa here. you're right! It isn't intellectual!
Nah, I'm just here to correct your grammar. The Earth's still round, though.

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Luke 22:35-38

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Re: The impossibilities of Flat Earth - intellectual debate
« Reply #123 on: December 18, 2015, 03:17:35 PM »
Wait, Charles is/was a lawyer? You couldn't tell by his post that's for sure.
That's what I deducted from this quote of his "would you like me to educate you in law ?", but I may be mistaken.

But let's not focus on trolling clowns. The questions are too important to let them spoil the fun...

You're right. Back to your regularly scheduled program.
The Bible doesn't support a flat earth.

Scripture, facts, science, stats, and logic is how I argue.

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CaptainMagpie

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Re: The impossibilities of Flat Earth - intellectual debate
« Reply #124 on: December 18, 2015, 03:52:51 PM »
There are many, many donkeys in a drove living their lives confined within a fence line on the ranch. They share in the bounty of food and drink served to them for a lifetime.  Drinking from the trough and enjoying the groundnut hay, sorghum stover, and salt lick without ever realizing the variety of food and drink existing outside of the ranch.

There is a team of thoroughbreds who came across the drove, amused by the limited vision the donkeys possessed even though the pack seemed convinced this ranch life extended to the rest of land they inhabited.

The thoroughbreds had traveled the width and breadth of the land experiencing first-hand reality around them, enjoying fresh water from the stream and consuming the rich sources of available food offered in nature. 

Try as they may, the thoroughbreds could not convince the drove that there is something beyond what they experience on the ranch.  The drove had a reputation for obstinacy and an inability to comprehend that a treasure exists in reality...and that reality is what we call the truth. 

Their reputation, as demonstrated, exists to this day since the knowledge brought forth by the thoroughbreds continues to be disregarded.

Reported for derailment and off-topic posting.

A parable or fable is not a derailment.  If it was, the whole Bible would be one derailment after another.  I am giving you an official warning for Troublemaking and abuse of the report function.  Please be considerate and contribute to forum threads constructively.  Thanks.
It is when it added nothing to this intellectual debate. How do you call yourself a Mod?

Which part of this debate is intellectual?  We have roundies claiming all kinds of preposterous things without a shred of evidence to back any of it up, and you coming in to memberate.  Same old same old...
I've been on the forum about a week and you seem to be insinuating that I've been here forever. Also if I'm finding what "memberate" means correctly you are suggesting I pretend to be a mod which I have made no claims to be.

And just because 0.00000001% of the population wont accept the obvious evidence that has in fact been given and will just say it is a lie/photoshop/conspiracy does not mean there is no evidence.

Now to add to the discussion,
The part about seeing enough to be able to see the curve dove tails nicely into the Red Bull footage where they show a picture of a porthole that a tiny section of Earth visible and because it looks flat in the image that means there is no curve. Seems like you (the OP) have a mathematical argument as to why you would not see it in such a small sample.
fuck off penguin.  I'll take my ban to tell you to go fuck your self.  Ban please.   I am waiting.

Re: The impossibilities of Flat Earth - intellectual debate
« Reply #125 on: December 18, 2015, 06:11:26 PM »
Was that nessecary Charles? Try to have an intelligent debate instead of spouting unrepeatable insults.

Thank you, indeed. The derailing parable was far less off-topic than silly insults by someone who doesn't even show understanding of proper English yet calls himself a lawyer (where properly written texts are of utmost importance).

Continuing with some content, I am still awaiting an answer to the next question (just 1 selected out of many):

The Sun on 21st of June makes a circle over the Flat Earth "map" with a radius of 7444 km (tropic of Cancer).
On the 21st of December this same Sun makes a circle over the Flat Earth "map" with a radius of 12,555 km (tropic of Capricorn).

Both of these movements are done in the same time; 1 Earth day.

How can the Sun move with 1949 km/h on June 21st and with 3387 km/h on December 21st, yet showing the same angular velocity in the skies?

Im not a lawyer , but I do know how to take the law apart if need be  . Your answers the sun is the other side of earth, the opposite side of earth. It travels with earth because its part of earth  , along with everything you see in the sky.
« Last Edit: December 18, 2015, 06:30:04 PM by charles bloomington »
When it comes to Jane's standards .I'm lower then an old stove she has in her garage.
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Re: The impossibilities of Flat Earth - intellectual debate
« Reply #126 on: December 18, 2015, 06:35:51 PM »
There are many, many donkeys in a drove living their lives confined within a fence line on the ranch. They share in the bounty of food and drink served to them for a lifetime.  Drinking from the trough and enjoying the groundnut hay, sorghum stover, and salt lick without ever realizing the variety of food and drink existing outside of the ranch.

There is a team of thoroughbreds who came across the drove, amused by the limited vision the donkeys possessed even though the pack seemed convinced this ranch life extended to the rest of land they inhabited.

The thoroughbreds had traveled the width and breadth of the land experiencing first-hand reality around them, enjoying fresh water from the stream and consuming the rich sources of available food offered in nature. 

Try as they may, the thoroughbreds could not convince the drove that there is something beyond what they experience on the ranch.  The drove had a reputation for obstinacy and an inability to comprehend that a treasure exists in reality...and that reality is what we call the truth. 

Their reputation, as demonstrated, exists to this day since the knowledge brought forth by the thoroughbreds continues to be disregarded.

Reported for derailment and off-topic posting.

A parable or fable is not a derailment.  If it was, the whole Bible would be one derailment after another.  I am giving you an official warning for Troublemaking and abuse of the report function.  Please be considerate and contribute to forum threads constructively.  Thanks.
It is when it added nothing to this intellectual debate. How do you call yourself a Mod?

Which part of this debate is intellectual?  We have roundies claiming all kinds of preposterous things without a shred of evidence to back any of it up, and you coming in to memberate.  Same old same old...
I've been on the forum about a week and you seem to be insinuating that I've been here forever. Also if I'm finding what "memberate" means correctly you are suggesting I pretend to be a mod which I have made no claims to be.

And just because 0.00000001% of the population wont accept the obvious evidence that has in fact been given and will just say it is a lie/photoshop/conspiracy does not mean there is no evidence.

Now to add to the discussion,
The part about seeing enough to be able to see the curve dove tails nicely into the Red Bull footage where they show a picture of a porthole that a tiny section of Earth visible and because it looks flat in the image that means there is no curve. Seems like you (the OP) have a mathematical argument as to why you would not see it in such a small sample.
Happy to expose what your other entities are on the forum . ;) Now back off tormenting Jroa.
When it comes to Jane's standards .I'm lower then an old stove she has in her garage.
Shannon Noll and Natalie Bassingthwaighte - Don't:

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CaptainMagpie

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Re: The impossibilities of Flat Earth - intellectual debate
« Reply #127 on: December 18, 2015, 06:38:48 PM »
Happy to expose what your other entities are on the forum . ;) Now back off tormenting Jroa.
Are you baselessly claiming I am also other people on this forum? I'm curious now as to who else you think I am.

Sorry for the off topic again OP, I'm just not sure what is going on here.
fuck off penguin.  I'll take my ban to tell you to go fuck your self.  Ban please.   I am waiting.

Re: The impossibilities of Flat Earth - intellectual debate
« Reply #128 on: December 18, 2015, 06:48:58 PM »
Happy to expose what your other entities are on the forum . ;) Now back off tormenting Jroa.
Are you baselessly claiming I am also other people on this forum? I'm curious now as to who else you think I am.

Sorry for the off topic again OP, I'm just not sure what is going on here.
Thanks for the apology. To me it's crystal clear what's happening. There's not a single intention of Flat Earthers to even start to participate in an intellectual debate. So, initiated by one of the mods, they try to troll away the topic full of nasty, too critical and well-argumented content.

It just shows the lack of understanding and intellectual baggage.
I much prefer the sharpest criticism of a single intelligent man to the thoughtless approval of the masses - Johannes Kepler (1571-1630)

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JustThatOneGuy

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Re: The impossibilities of Flat Earth - intellectual debate
« Reply #129 on: December 18, 2015, 07:03:04 PM »
Happy to expose what your other entities are on the forum . ;) Now back off tormenting Jroa.
Are you baselessly claiming I am also other people on this forum? I'm curious now as to who else you think I am.

Sorry for the off topic again OP, I'm just not sure what is going on here.
Thanks for the apology. To me it's crystal clear what's happening. There's not a single intention of Flat Earthers to even start to participate in an intellectual debate. So, initiated by one of the mods, they try to troll away the topic full of nasty, too critical and well-argumented content.

It just shows the lack of understanding and intellectual baggage.
Pardon me. Space travel
IS STILL POSSIBLE.
Nah, I'm just here to correct your grammar. The Earth's still round, though.

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CaptainMagpie

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Re: The impossibilities of Flat Earth - intellectual debate
« Reply #130 on: December 18, 2015, 07:16:42 PM »
Here we go, I found that post and picture I was talking about.

Here is a shot from the inside camera, it's flat. Earth not a ball.


Based on what you were saying eariler, and I already thought this, there isn't enough visible to be able to say it is flat or curved.
fuck off penguin.  I'll take my ban to tell you to go fuck your self.  Ban please.   I am waiting.

Re: The impossibilities of Flat Earth - intellectual debate
« Reply #131 on: December 18, 2015, 07:30:39 PM »
Pardon me. Space travel
IS STILL POSSIBLE.
Oh yeah, another minion joining in.

Not a single argument. Just some capitalized letters and thinking you make a point.  ::)
I much prefer the sharpest criticism of a single intelligent man to the thoughtless approval of the masses - Johannes Kepler (1571-1630)

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JustThatOneGuy

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Re: The impossibilities of Flat Earth - intellectual debate
« Reply #132 on: December 19, 2015, 04:39:44 PM »
Pardon me. Space travel
IS STILL POSSIBLE.
Oh yeah, another minion joining in.

Not a single argument. Just some capitalized letters and thinking you make a point.  ::)
It wasn't meant to be an argument. I just felt like throwing that in, to get the exact response you gave me.
Nah, I'm just here to correct your grammar. The Earth's still round, though.

Re: The impossibilities of Flat Earth - intellectual debate
« Reply #133 on: December 19, 2015, 09:20:33 PM »
Based on what you were saying eariler, and I already thought this, there isn't enough visible to be able to say it is flat or curved.
If there was enough vision, it would be rejected due to fish-eye effect or similar. So no, you cannot convince anyone with such an image.

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rabinoz

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Re: The impossibilities of Flat Earth - intellectual debate
« Reply #134 on: December 21, 2015, 12:19:37 AM »
One of my pet hates in life was seting up  string lines , simply because no mater how much tension I put on it . Gravity would always  make it sag slightly in the middle . Now not once did it ever convex. So tell me, if a string line wont convex & it actually concave's due to its  weight & fall. Why on earth would you think the surface of the earth would act the opposite to everything else. ?
I finally found your string line "experiment"!

Your string line sags simply because it is only supported at the ends and gravity pulls the line down.  An extremely high tension is required get a very small sag - yes I know the problem, especially when a line level is hung in the middle.

But, would you expect bodies of water, like swimming pools and lakes, to be concave?  Small bodies of water look flat, but to me very large bodies like the ocean do indeed "convex".

These and earth's surface are not concave because they are supported (more or less) uniformly all across their surface. 
There are examples of rock bridges, but these are rigid and are always too small to show curvature (or not) from the earth's shape.

Re: The impossibilities of Flat Earth - intellectual debate
« Reply #135 on: December 21, 2015, 01:27:35 AM »
Maybe a picture might help some see why calculating drop is fucking stupid.


« Last Edit: December 21, 2015, 01:56:20 AM by SkepticMike »
Turkish joke. A prisoner goes to the jail's library to borrow a book. The librarian says: "We don't have this book, but we have its author"

Re: The impossibilities of Flat Earth - intellectual debate
« Reply #136 on: December 21, 2015, 03:44:57 AM »
I have seen pictures that were taken around 58,000 from the concord and there is no denying that the pictures show a curved horizon.


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Son of Orospu

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Re: The impossibilities of Flat Earth - intellectual debate
« Reply #137 on: December 21, 2015, 03:53:23 AM »
I have seen pictures that were taken around 58,000 from the concord and there is no denying that the pictures show a curved horizon.



Here is an image taken from around 10 feet off the ground.  There is no denying the curved horizon.  ::)


Re: The impossibilities of Flat Earth - intellectual debate
« Reply #138 on: December 21, 2015, 03:57:35 AM »
I have seen pictures that were taken around 58,000 from the concord and there is no denying that the pictures show a curved horizon.



Here is an image taken from around 10 feet off the ground.  There is no denying the curved horizon.  ::)


but the higher you are, the more pronounced it is.



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rabinoz

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Re: The impossibilities of Flat Earth - intellectual debate
« Reply #139 on: December 21, 2015, 04:21:55 AM »
Maybe a picture might help some see why calculating drop is fucking stupid.


Something happened?  Sorry, but Charles Bloomington's convexing string lines is so ridiculous I can't be bothered wasting more time on it - he seems to think the globe should repel the line or something!  Can you see any logic in it?

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Son of Orospu

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Re: The impossibilities of Flat Earth - intellectual debate
« Reply #140 on: December 21, 2015, 04:27:15 AM »
I have seen pictures that were taken around 58,000 from the concord and there is no denying that the pictures show a curved horizon.



Here is an image taken from around 10 feet off the ground.  There is no denying the curved horizon.  ::)


but the higher you are, the more pronounced it is.




How high do you have to be to see the curvature in my image? 

Re: The impossibilities of Flat Earth - intellectual debate
« Reply #141 on: December 21, 2015, 05:29:31 AM »
I have seen pictures that were taken around 58,000 from the concord and there is no denying that the pictures show a curved horizon.



Here is an image taken from around 10 feet off the ground.  There is no denying the curved horizon.  ::)


but the higher you are, the more pronounced it is
Up to the maximum altitude possible; the Karman "line".

As you are a materials science engineer, you know that "rockets in space" is completely impossible. See for an explanation from my side a post in the Skateboard thread.
I much prefer the sharpest criticism of a single intelligent man to the thoughtless approval of the masses - Johannes Kepler (1571-1630)

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Jadyyn

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Re: The impossibilities of Flat Earth - intellectual debate
« Reply #142 on: December 21, 2015, 08:41:21 AM »
FE "proof" relies heavily on pictures of the horizon. Most unfortunately, lots of factors enter into any picture (e.g. refraction).

One thing that keeps getting missed I think is where the horizon IS in the picture affects the flatness. This also needs to be considered:


My cut, with all these "problems", the horizon argument probably should be avoided. Is there anything else that demonstrates a Flat Earth?
If you can't dazzle them with brilliance, baffle them with bullshit. W.C. Fields.
"The amount of energy necessary to refute bullshit is an order of magnitude bigger than to produce it."
"What can be asserted without evidence can be dismissed without evidence."

Re: The impossibilities of Flat Earth - intellectual debate
« Reply #143 on: December 22, 2015, 04:16:12 PM »
Why isn't there any proof of a border, or reports of anyone traveling to the edge of the earth? Is it kinda 'out of bounds' on a flat earth, a massive monster awaits or something?






Re: The impossibilities of Flat Earth - intellectual debate
« Reply #144 on: December 22, 2015, 05:28:36 PM »

Re: The impossibilities of Flat Earth - intellectual debate
« Reply #145 on: December 23, 2015, 08:33:21 PM »
Performing Eratosthenes' experiment while simultaneously using three or more locations and getting corroborating results between all locations is impossible in the FE and especially the DEF models, the only place you're going to get all locations corroborating each other is in the RE model.
Turkish joke. A prisoner goes to the jail's library to borrow a book. The librarian says: "We don't have this book, but we have its author"

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Son of Orospu

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Re: The impossibilities of Flat Earth - intellectual debate
« Reply #146 on: December 24, 2015, 01:37:49 AM »
Why isn't there any proof of a border, or reports of anyone traveling to the edge of the earth? Is it kinda 'out of bounds' on a flat earth, a massive monster awaits or something?

It is probably simply too difficult and expensive for common people to go there.  NASA may have evidence that they are hiding from us.  They probably have the edge mapped out complete with photographs, but they do not want for us to know such things. 

Re: The impossibilities of Flat Earth - intellectual debate
« Reply #147 on: December 24, 2015, 01:42:11 AM »
Why isn't there any proof of a border, or reports of anyone traveling to the edge of the earth? Is it kinda 'out of bounds' on a flat earth, a massive monster awaits or something?

It is probably simply too difficult and expensive for common people to go there.  NASA may have evidence that they are hiding from us.  They probably have the edge mapped out complete with photographs, but they do not want for us to know such things.
There are many people and organisations around the world that do exploration.  Completely unconnected with NASA, who do space, not land.

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Son of Orospu

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Re: The impossibilities of Flat Earth - intellectual debate
« Reply #148 on: December 24, 2015, 01:48:44 AM »
Why isn't there any proof of a border, or reports of anyone traveling to the edge of the earth? Is it kinda 'out of bounds' on a flat earth, a massive monster awaits or something?

It is probably simply too difficult and expensive for common people to go there.  NASA may have evidence that they are hiding from us.  They probably have the edge mapped out complete with photographs, but they do not want for us to know such things.
There are many people and organisations around the world that do exploration.  Completely unconnected with NASA, who do space, not land.

Which of these people and organisations were actively looking for the edge? 

Re: The impossibilities of Flat Earth - intellectual debate
« Reply #149 on: December 24, 2015, 03:38:26 AM »
Why isn't there any proof of a border, or reports of anyone traveling to the edge of the earth? Is it kinda 'out of bounds' on a flat earth, a massive monster awaits or something?

It is probably simply too difficult and expensive for common people to go there.  NASA may have evidence that they are hiding from us.  They probably have the edge mapped out complete with photographs, but they do not want for us to know such things.
There are many people and organisations around the world that do exploration.  Completely unconnected with NASA, who do space, not land.

Which of these people and organisations were actively looking for the edge?
There is no evidence there is an edge to look for, as you know.  All measurements and observations show a round earth.