Why does the weight change?

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Why does the weight change?
« on: December 03, 2015, 12:55:47 AM »
On a flat earth with universal gravity an object would weigh the same everywhere, because it is a plane accelerating normal to its axis, right? then g should be constant and equal to acceleration. So why does the amount of molecules which make up one kilogram at the north pole weigh less at the equator?
Earth is flat, but Jupiter is the flattest planet in our solar system.

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JRoweSkeptic

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Re: Why does the weight change?
« Reply #1 on: December 03, 2015, 02:02:53 PM »
The UA model is flawed for multiple reasons. It also supposes, for example, an infinite source of energy to provide perpetual acceleration on a tremendous mass.
There are alternatives. DET explicitly addresses the question of concentration: the downwards force is more concentrated the further towards a pole you go, and for that matter would decrease with altitude too, as you pass the whirlpools which cause it.
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Re: Why does the weight change?
« Reply #2 on: December 03, 2015, 11:27:53 PM »
What causes this to happen on DE?
Earth is flat, but Jupiter is the flattest planet in our solar system.

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JRoweSkeptic

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Re: Why does the weight change?
« Reply #3 on: December 04, 2015, 06:04:28 AM »
What causes this to happen on DE?
Learn the model, it's a lot to go into. See sig.
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Re: Why does the weight change?
« Reply #4 on: December 04, 2015, 07:42:16 AM »
It's because centripetal acceleration on a rotating sphere counteracts some of the gravitational pull. I think that's a logical explanation.

I tried to read your story but I could not find the explanation for this, could you elaborate?

Earth is flat, but Jupiter is the flattest planet in our solar system.

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JRoweSkeptic

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Re: Why does the weight change?
« Reply #5 on: December 04, 2015, 08:46:40 AM »
It's because centripetal acceleration on a rotating sphere counteracts some of the gravitational pull. I think that's a logical explanation.

I tried to read your story but I could not find the explanation for this, could you elaborate?

If you're not going to read the model, I'm not going to waste time on you. The gist is that aether (which causes the downwards force in DET) will be concentrated more at certain areas and altitudes. The details require you to actually learn the model.

I've said this before. Learn the model and stop wasting time.
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Re: Why does the weight change?
« Reply #6 on: December 04, 2015, 10:58:15 AM »
Sounds more like a religion to me, but if its any good then the explanation should and based on fewer assumptions then previous models, right?
Earth is flat, but Jupiter is the flattest planet in our solar system.

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JRoweSkeptic

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Re: Why does the weight change?
« Reply #7 on: December 04, 2015, 11:00:48 AM »
Sounds more like a religion to me, but if its any good then the explanation should and based on fewer assumptions then previous models, right?
How is it a religion to ask that you have the slightest clue what you're talkng about?! That's how science works. If you attend a lecture on relativity, you'll get kicked out if you keep demanding they explain basic concepts like velocity and light.
It is based on fewer assumptions. Once again, I ask you to LEARN THE MODEL.
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sircool

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Re: Why does the weight change?
« Reply #8 on: December 04, 2015, 02:27:56 PM »
You should definetly compare Dual Earth Fantasy with the General Relativity more often, makes you appear intelligent!
If it's flat, that would be very interesting for science

Re: Why does the weight change?
« Reply #9 on: December 04, 2015, 02:32:36 PM »
General Relativity has very much to do with the speed of light, I'd be suprised of you could go through a lecture without it!
Earth is flat, but Jupiter is the flattest planet in our solar system.

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JRoweSkeptic

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Re: Why does the weight change?
« Reply #10 on: December 05, 2015, 04:36:15 AM »
What are you on about now?!
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Re: Why does the weight change?
« Reply #11 on: December 05, 2015, 05:21:01 AM »
There are alternatives. DET explicitly addresses the question of concentration: the downwards force is more concentrated the further towards a pole you go, and for that matter would decrease with altitude too, as you pass the whirlpools which cause it.
Does it also include local deviations based on local density of minerals/rocks. Also changes in concentration would have to be very small (since the acceleration change is small).

Looking at the map of gravitational deviation you run into troubles (red-higher, blue-lower):
http://www.celestiamotherlode.net/catalog/images/screenshots/various/earth_Informational_maps_1__Ton_Lindemann.jpg

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JRoweSkeptic

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Re: Why does the weight change?
« Reply #12 on: December 05, 2015, 05:23:49 AM »
Does it also include local deviations based on local density of minerals/rocks.
Is there evidence for this, or just assertion based on presupposing RET?

Quote
Also changes in concentration would have to be very small (since the acceleration change is small).
At this level, they are.
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Re: Why does the weight change?
« Reply #13 on: December 05, 2015, 05:40:14 AM »
Is there evidence for this, or just assertion based on presupposing RET?
Higher density = higher mass = higher gravitational force. Changes are not huge, but sensitive devices can measure them (see the link at the end).

You can clearly see that around mountain chains there are red spots, but close to deep ocean, blue spots. This is however not a 100% working rule.

The map I linked earlier was provided by the following mission:
http://earthobservatory.nasa.gov/IOTD/view.php?id=3666

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JRoweSkeptic

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Re: Why does the weight change?
« Reply #14 on: December 05, 2015, 07:55:01 AM »
Is there evidence for this, or just assertion based on presupposing RET?
Higher density = higher mass = higher gravitational force. Changes are not huge, but sensitive devices can measure them (see the link at the end).

You can clearly see that around mountain chains there are red spots, but close to deep ocean, blue spots. This is however not a 100% working rule.

The map I linked earlier was provided by the following mission:
http://earthobservatory.nasa.gov/IOTD/view.php?id=3666
That doesn't explain anything, beyond handwaving that it happened.
If that's not a complete working rule, then you may just be working from correlation bias. Science should be composed of working rules.
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sircool

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Re: Why does the weight change?
« Reply #15 on: December 05, 2015, 08:59:01 AM »
Is there evidence for this, or just assertion based on presupposing RET?
Higher density = higher mass = higher gravitational force. Changes are not huge, but sensitive devices can measure them (see the link at the end).

You can clearly see that around mountain chains there are red spots, but close to deep ocean, blue spots. This is however not a 100% working rule.

The map I linked earlier was provided by the following mission:
http://earthobservatory.nasa.gov/IOTD/view.php?id=3666
That doesn't explain anything, beyond handwaving that it happened.
If that's not a complete working rule, then you may just be working from correlation bias. Science should be composed of working rules.

Just because you don't understand science doesen't mean its not true. And no, science don't explain everything, that's the beauty of it, if it did, it wouldn't be much fun because there would be nothing left to discover.
If it's flat, that would be very interesting for science

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JRoweSkeptic

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Re: Why does the weight change?
« Reply #16 on: December 05, 2015, 09:41:37 AM »
Is there evidence for this, or just assertion based on presupposing RET?
Higher density = higher mass = higher gravitational force. Changes are not huge, but sensitive devices can measure them (see the link at the end).

You can clearly see that around mountain chains there are red spots, but close to deep ocean, blue spots. This is however not a 100% working rule.

The map I linked earlier was provided by the following mission:
http://earthobservatory.nasa.gov/IOTD/view.php?id=3666
That doesn't explain anything, beyond handwaving that it happened.
If that's not a complete working rule, then you may just be working from correlation bias. Science should be composed of working rules.

Just because you don't understand science doesen't mean its not true. And no, science don't explain everything, that's the beauty of it, if it did, it wouldn't be much fun because there would be nothing left to discover.

How about you say something that's actually relevant rather than spouting platitudes meant to patronize and humiliate irrespective of truth?
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markjo

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Re: Why does the weight change?
« Reply #17 on: December 05, 2015, 09:57:45 AM »
Is there evidence for this, or just assertion based on presupposing RET?
Higher density = higher mass = higher gravitational force. Changes are not huge, but sensitive devices can measure them (see the link at the end).

You can clearly see that around mountain chains there are red spots, but close to deep ocean, blue spots. This is however not a 100% working rule.

The map I linked earlier was provided by the following mission:
http://earthobservatory.nasa.gov/IOTD/view.php?id=3666
That doesn't explain anything, beyond handwaving that it happened.
If that's not a complete working rule, then you may just be working from correlation bias. Science should be composed of working rules.
*sigh*  The variations in gravity are explained by Einstein's field equations and a good deal of observation and experimentation over the last 100 years.
Science is what happens when preconception meets verification.
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JRoweSkeptic

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Re: Why does the weight change?
« Reply #18 on: December 05, 2015, 10:02:11 AM »
Is there evidence for this, or just assertion based on presupposing RET?
Higher density = higher mass = higher gravitational force. Changes are not huge, but sensitive devices can measure them (see the link at the end).

You can clearly see that around mountain chains there are red spots, but close to deep ocean, blue spots. This is however not a 100% working rule.

The map I linked earlier was provided by the following mission:
http://earthobservatory.nasa.gov/IOTD/view.php?id=3666
That doesn't explain anything, beyond handwaving that it happened.
If that's not a complete working rule, then you may just be working from correlation bias. Science should be composed of working rules.
*sigh*  The variations in gravity are explained by Einstein's field equations and a good deal of observation and experimentation over the last 100 years.
I know the theoretical justification and that we have indeed observed some variation: I was asking after a specific instance.
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markjo

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Re: Why does the weight change?
« Reply #19 on: December 05, 2015, 11:30:25 AM »
I know the theoretical justification and that we have indeed observed some variation: I was asking after a specific instance.
Do you mean an instance like gravimetric surveying used for resource exploration?
http://www.geosoft.com/gravity-and-magnetic-methods-oil-exploration
http://csegrecorder.com/articles/view/magnetic-and-gravity-methods-in-mineral-exploration
https://geoinfo.nmt.edu/geoscience/projects/astronauts/gravity_method.html
Science is what happens when preconception meets verification.
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Besides, perhaps FET is a conspiracy too.
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It is just the way it is, you understanding it doesn't concern me.

Re: Why does the weight change?
« Reply #20 on: December 05, 2015, 09:32:00 PM »
Sometimes I just scratch my head & think about life & stuff.
 Expantion & Contraction . Hot & cold .
When it comes to Jane's standards .I'm lower then an old stove she has in her garage.
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sircool

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Re: Why does the weight change?
« Reply #21 on: December 06, 2015, 08:47:14 AM »
Aren't you going to add something related to topic, Charlie?
If it's flat, that would be very interesting for science

Re: Why does the weight change?
« Reply #22 on: December 06, 2015, 12:26:30 PM »
How could he?

This website has no topic.
« Last Edit: December 06, 2015, 09:42:23 PM by yonder »

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Conker

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Re: Why does the weight change?
« Reply #23 on: December 06, 2015, 04:20:10 PM »
Answering to JRoweSkeptic, a device called gravitometer (basically, a vertical seismometer or accelerometer) is used to measure the acceleration that mass suffers in a specific place. Gravitometers are usually strong enough to measure the pull of both the sun and the moon. Lower density rocks cause a drop in the acceleration perceived, so they are commonly used for surveying. As a cheapo repleacement for such an expensive and professional device, a sufficently accurate post card balance can be used to measure the difference in weight of objects in different locations, although careful callibration would probably be required.
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Re: Why does the weight change?
« Reply #24 on: December 07, 2015, 05:34:07 AM »
Aren't you going to add something related to topic, Charlie?
Temperature &  Humidity effects  inertia & resistance, hence variants in gravity acorrding to climate at  location
When it comes to Jane's standards .I'm lower then an old stove she has in her garage.
Shannon Noll and Natalie Bassingthwaighte - Don't:

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Conker

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Re: Why does the weight change?
« Reply #25 on: December 07, 2015, 05:45:26 AM »
Aren't you going to add something related to topic, Charlie?
Temperature &  Humidity effects  inertia & resistance, hence variants in gravity acorrding to climate at  location

Gravitometers are usually contained in a partial vacuum, and need to be termally controlled (they are very sensitive). So I dont think that's the case.
This is not a joke society.
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mohamed

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Re: Why does the weight change?
« Reply #26 on: December 07, 2015, 12:02:26 PM »
On a flat earth with universal gravity an object would weigh the same everywhere, because it is a plane accelerating normal to its axis, right? then g should be constant and equal to acceleration. So why does the amount of molecules which make up one kilogram at the north pole weigh less at the equator?

if we suppose that the disk (the earth) is rotative (according to your comprehension) the molecules wich make up one kilogram at the north pole will always weigh less at the equator don't you think so ? further more, if the earth was round, turning around itself, the molecules which make up a kilogram at the north pole would weigh more at the eaquator ! did you think about that ? if i'll push you away, your weight will remain the same, but if i'll push you up (like on a lift) your weight will change (have you ever seen a helicopter ?) " Further more don't believe that all those who think the earth is flat, agree with earth acceleration thoeries.

"Is He [not best] who made the earth a stable ground and placed within it rivers and made for it firmly set mountains and placed between the two seas a barrier? Is there a deity with Allah ? [No], but most of them do not know" 27:61 The Holy Koran
« Last Edit: December 07, 2015, 12:44:19 PM by mohamed »
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sircool

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Re: Why does the weight change?
« Reply #27 on: December 07, 2015, 12:47:56 PM »
No Mohamed, I have never seen a helicopter, what is that? But if you put this helicopter thing inside a sentrifuge it will weigh more! Strap it on the outside and it will fly off!
« Last Edit: December 07, 2015, 12:57:32 PM by sircool »
If it's flat, that would be very interesting for science

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mohamed

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Re: Why does the weight change?
« Reply #28 on: December 12, 2015, 07:52:36 AM »
No Mohamed, I have never seen a helicopter, what is that?

You don't know what a helicopter is ? just open your mind Mr.Einstein :

1- Helicopters (and other machines) = " And [by] those who blow violently " Verse 5:3 The Holy Koran
2- Planes = " And [by] those who fly high " Verse 51:1 The Holy Koran
3- Submarines = " and by those who pull down [as if]  drowning " 79:1 The Holy Koran
4- Boats = "And [by] those who glide [as if] swimming " 79:3 The Holy Koran
5- Speed trains = " And those who precede others in a race " 79:4 The Holy Koran
6- Buses = " And [by] those moving with ease " 51:3 The Holy Koran
7- Trucks = " And [by] those carrying a load " 51:2 The Holy Koran
8- Factories = " And [by] those apportioning [each] matter " 51:4 The Holy Koran
8- Roads and Highways = " And [by] those who bifurcates " 77:4 The Holy Koran
6- Computers = " And [by]  those who arrange [each] matter "
7- electromenagers device (and other materials) = " And [by] those who remove with ease " 79:2 The Holy Koran
8- Phones = " And those who recite messages " 37:3 The Holy Koran
9- Weapons = " And those who make rebuttals " 37:2 The Holy Koran
10- TV-Radio...   = " And those who deliver messages " 77:5 The Holy Koran
11- Printers, newspapers = " And by those who spread " 77:3 The Holy Koran
12- Cars = " And those who run, making a roadway noise " "  producers of sparks " " raiding the environment at the morning " " Stirring up thereby [clouds of] smoke " " moving thereby in the center collectively " " Indeed mankind, to his Lord, is ungrateful " " And indeed, he is to that a witness " Verses 1-7 The Holy Koran

what's more ? is there anything else  you don't know yet Mr.Einstein ? I'm at your service
« Last Edit: December 12, 2015, 07:59:42 AM by mohamed »
"They want to extinguish the light of Allah with their mouths, but Allah will perfect His light, although the disbelievers dislike it"

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MaNaeSWolf

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Re: Why does the weight change?
« Reply #29 on: December 12, 2015, 10:33:57 AM »
Jumping in at page 2, it goes from a discussion of how Gravimeters work to recitals of the Koran. Wow that is some serious ADHD.

Why does the weight change?

This has been asked before.
If I remember correctly it ended with FErs denying that there are gravity variations accross the earths surface and Gravimeters are a lie.
But seriously, FErs should think up an alternative to UA because it is
a not accepted by all FErs
and
b very easily disproven