Evolution debate in detail

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Re: Evolution debate in detail
« Reply #30 on: December 27, 2015, 06:02:44 PM »

If they reproduce (fertle or nonfertle) children then there canines.

So if canines produce canines, they are canines?  That is a tautology not a definition. Perhaps you could try a real definition?

The definition of kind is basically the same as family.

That has absolutely nothing to do with what I said.  Can you define canines as something other than, "That which gives birth to canines"?

If you can prove that let's say a cat came from a canine then that would be demontratable, testable, repeatable proof that evolution is true.

If you proved a cat was born from a canine you would have proven evolution wrong. Why does evolution stop at the family level (a totally arbitrary level stabilished for convenience, by the way)?

Why? And the reason why it would stop there is because that's all we observe.
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Rama Set

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Re: Evolution debate in detail
« Reply #31 on: December 27, 2015, 06:53:56 PM »
I don't mean to dodge your question. But to make sure, what specifically are you asking?

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Can you define canines as something other than, "That which gives birth to canines"?
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Re: Evolution debate in detail
« Reply #32 on: December 27, 2015, 06:58:25 PM »
I don't mean to dodge your question. But to make sure, what specifically are you asking?

Quote
Can you define canines as something other than, "That which gives birth to canines"?

The genetic makeup and for the most part the physical features.
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Conker

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Re: Evolution debate in detail
« Reply #33 on: December 27, 2015, 07:22:30 PM »

If they reproduce (fertle or nonfertle) children then there canines.

So if canines produce canines, they are canines?  That is a tautology not a definition. Perhaps you could try a real definition?

The definition of kind is basically the same as family.

That has absolutely nothing to do with what I said.  Can you define canines as something other than, "That which gives birth to canines"?

If you can prove that let's say a cat came from a canine then that would be demontratable, testable, repeatable proof that evolution is true.

If you proved a cat was born from a canine you would have proven evolution wrong. Why does evolution stop at the family level (a totally arbitrary level stabilished for convenience, by the way)?

Why? And the reason why it would stop there is because that's all we observe.

But we observe a continuum in DNA, and in fossil record.


I don't mean to dodge your question. But to make sure, what specifically are you asking?

Quote
Can you define canines as something other than, "That which gives birth to canines"?

The genetic makeup and for the most part the physical features.

The genetic makeup for a cat and a dog are terribly similar. Families are defined mostly over common descent. For example, humans are apes. Im surprised you accept this.
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Re: Evolution debate in detail
« Reply #34 on: December 27, 2015, 07:59:00 PM »
Cats and dogs are similar, but different. A stagecoach and a Lamborghini are very similar. They share the basic fundamentals. Does that mean they evolved from each other? Why is the chromosomes of animals are in conflict with the evolutionary line. Ferns have more chromosomes than humans. Are ferns more evolved than humans? Tobacco has more chromosomes than humans also. Does that mean that they are more evolved? I think that's why people smoke. They want to become more evolved ;)
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Re: Evolution debate in detail
« Reply #36 on: December 28, 2015, 04:48:16 AM »
Cats and dogs are similar, but different. A stagecoach and a Lamborghini are very similar. They share the basic fundamentals. Does that mean they evolved from each other? Why is the chromosomes of animals are in conflict with the evolutionary line. Ferns have more chromosomes than humans. Are ferns more evolved than humans? Tobacco has more chromosomes than humans also. Does that mean that they are more evolved? I think that's why people smoke. They want to become more evolved ;)

There is no "more evolved". Evolution isnt a ladder. The number of chromosomes only determines that, the number of chromosomes. It has nothing to do with "perfection". Down's sindrome is caused by an excess of cromosomes, for example. Trully, a godly design, a reproduction mechanism so flawed that wastes an entire pregnancy in an animal that will starve to death due to brain damage caused by incorrect reproduction of DNA.

And, no. No one is saying cats come from dogs or viceversa. Cats and dogs are distant cousins. They can both trace their origins back to an animal. Cats and dogs share an order, Carnivora, and one being part of the sub-order (?) Feliformia, and the other of the  Caniformia. Their exact most recent ancestor isnt known, as far as I know, but it is now thought that they share at least an ancestor in the members of the Miacids/Miacedae, as all Carnivora do.
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Re: Evolution debate in detail
« Reply #37 on: December 28, 2015, 07:49:10 AM »
Humans have fewer chromosomes than chimpanzees and the prediction and subsequent discovery of the fused chimpanzee chromosomes in the human genome was a strong test of evolutionary theory.
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Re: Evolution debate in detail
« Reply #38 on: December 28, 2015, 08:30:33 AM »
Cats and dogs are similar, but different. A stagecoach and a Lamborghini are very similar. They share the basic fundamentals. Does that mean they evolved from each other? Why is the chromosomes of animals are in conflict with the evolutionary line. Ferns have more chromosomes than humans. Are ferns more evolved than humans? Tobacco has more chromosomes than humans also. Does that mean that they are more evolved? I think that's why people smoke. They want to become more evolved ;)
Quote
There is no "more evolved". Evolution isnt a ladder. The number of chromosomes only determines that, the number of chromosomes. It has nothing to do with "perfection". Down's sindrome is caused by an excess of cromosomes, for example. Trully, a godly design, a reproduction mechanism so flawed that wastes an entire pregnancy in an animal that will starve to death due to brain damage caused by incorrect reproduction of DNA.

1. My point is if evolution is true then we should see the chromosomes more aligned with the evolutionary tree which we don't.

2. We are looking at a copy of thousands of copies even if you believe in YEC. Things can and will break down after all that copying. Would you look at a wrecked corvette and ask Chevy why did they built it like that?
Quote
And, no. No one is saying cats come from dogs or viceversa. Cats and dogs are distant cousins. They can both trace their origins back to an animal. Cats and dogs share an order, Carnivora, and one being part of the sub-order (?) Feliformia, and the other of the  Caniformia. Their exact most recent ancestor isnt known, as far as I know, but it is now thought that they share at least an ancestor in the members of the Miacids/Miacedae, as all Carnivora do.

Just because they're carnivores now doesn't mean they were always carnivores. Little tike was a lion that REFUSED to eat meat. They used him in movies. But changing from a meat eating lion to a plant eating or vice versa is a small step compared to getting a lion from a rock.
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Conker

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Re: Evolution debate in detail
« Reply #39 on: December 28, 2015, 11:16:53 AM »
Cats and dogs are similar, but different. A stagecoach and a Lamborghini are very similar. They share the basic fundamentals. Does that mean they evolved from each other? Why is the chromosomes of animals are in conflict with the evolutionary line. Ferns have more chromosomes than humans. Are ferns more evolved than humans? Tobacco has more chromosomes than humans also. Does that mean that they are more evolved? I think that's why people smoke. They want to become more evolved ;)
Quote
There is no "more evolved". Evolution isnt a ladder. The number of chromosomes only determines that, the number of chromosomes. It has nothing to do with "perfection". Down's sindrome is caused by an excess of cromosomes, for example. Trully, a godly design, a reproduction mechanism so flawed that wastes an entire pregnancy in an animal that will starve to death due to brain damage caused by incorrect reproduction of DNA.

1. My point is if evolution is true then we should see the chromosomes more aligned with the evolutionary tree which we don't.
Who predicts that? Why? Chromosomal evidence is used to show relationship between species, and as Rama Set pointed out, the fusing and duplication of chromosomes was a prediction of modern evolutionary theory that was then confirmed.

Quote
2. We are looking at a copy of thousands of copies even if you believe in YEC. Things can and will break down after all that copying. Would you look at a wrecked corvette and ask Chevy why did they built it like that?
So you are saying that animals DO change? Because that's all you need for evolution. A faulty copy mechanism. Besides, believe it or not, there is no reason to believe the copying was any better in the past. Why would it? We have a similar replication mechanism.

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And, no. No one is saying cats come from dogs or viceversa. Cats and dogs are distant cousins. They can both trace their origins back to an animal. Cats and dogs share an order, Carnivora, and one being part of the sub-order (?) Feliformia, and the other of the  Caniformia. Their exact most recent ancestor isnt known, as far as I know, but it is now thought that they share at least an ancestor in the members of the Miacids/Miacedae, as all Carnivora do.

Just because they're carnivores now doesn't mean they were always carnivores. Little tike was a lion that REFUSED to eat meat. They used him in movies. But changing from a meat eating lion to a plant eating or vice versa is a small step compared to getting a lion from a rock.

Dude, the name has nothing to do with whether they are carnivores or not. Pandas are strictly herbivore and they are part of the Carnivora order. And most animals I know of that are in the Carnivora order are either not strictly carnivore, or out right omnivore.

And no one is saying you got a lion from a rock. What we are saying, in a terribly simplification of millions and millions and millions of years of both geological and biological history is that a feline like animal is the ancestor of cats, and that a small horse-like animal is the ancestor to horses. But that horse-like animal had an ancestor. Eventually, as DNA evidence, fossil evidence, chromosomic evidence, mitochondrial evidence (mitochondrias, by the way, used to be individual cells, and now cohexist in symbiosis with most eukariotes.It even has its own DNA, and we can trace it back just as we trace any other DNA source. Even better, at least in humans, mitochondrial DNA is transmitted via maternal line, meaning mixing of genomes doesnt occur, allowing for extremelly precise dating), quirality evidence, continuous function evidence, and much more tells us, its obvious that ALL living beings we know of share a common ancestor. Where did this ancestor come from is a different issue, but abiogenesis shows us some mechanisms that may have allowed for proto-protolife to emmerge.
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Re: Evolution debate in detail
« Reply #40 on: December 28, 2015, 01:47:21 PM »
Cats and dogs are similar, but different. A stagecoach and a Lamborghini are very similar. They share the basic fundamentals. Does that mean they evolved from each other? Why is the chromosomes of animals are in conflict with the evolutionary line. Ferns have more chromosomes than humans. Are ferns more evolved than humans? Tobacco has more chromosomes than humans also. Does that mean that they are more evolved? I think that's why people smoke. They want to become more evolved ;)
Quote
There is no "more evolved". Evolution isnt a ladder. The number of chromosomes only determines that, the number of chromosomes. It has nothing to do with "perfection". Down's sindrome is caused by an excess of cromosomes, for example. Trully, a godly design, a reproduction mechanism so flawed that wastes an entire pregnancy in an animal that will starve to death due to brain damage caused by incorrect reproduction of DNA.

1. My point is if evolution is true then we should see the chromosomes more aligned with the evolutionary tree which we don't.

Quote
Who predicts that? Why? Chromosomal evidence is used to show relationship between species, and as Rama Set pointed out, the fusing and duplication of chromosomes was a prediction of modern evolutionary theory that was then confirmed.

Fusing and duplicating is the mechanism. How did the mechanism evolved?

Quote
2. We are looking at a copy of thousands of copies even if you believe in YEC. Things can and will break down after all that copying. Would you look at a wrecked corvette and ask Chevy why did they built it like that?

Quote
So you are saying that animals DO change? Because that's all you need for evolution. A faulty copy mechanism. Besides, believe it or not, there is no reason to believe the copying was any better in the past. Why would it? We have a similar replication mechanism.

Logically speaking if its broke now it used to be fixed in the past.
Quote
Quote
And, no. No one is saying cats come from dogs or viceversa. Cats and dogs are distant cousins. They can both trace their origins back to an animal. Cats and dogs share an order, Carnivora, and one being part of the sub-order (?) Feliformia, and the other of the  Caniformia. Their exact most recent ancestor isnt known, as far as I know, but it is now thought that they share at least an ancestor in the members of the Miacids/Miacedae, as all Carnivora do.

Just because they're carnivores now doesn't mean they were always carnivores. Little tike was a lion that REFUSED to eat meat. They used him in movies. But changing from a meat eating lion to a plant eating or vice versa is a small step compared to getting a lion from a rock.

Dude, the name has nothing to do with whether they are carnivores or not. Pandas are strictly herbivore and they are part of the Carnivora order. And most animals I know of that are in the Carnivora order are either not strictly carnivore, or out right omnivore.

And no one is saying you got a lion from a rock. What we are saying, in a terribly simplification of millions and millions and millions of years of both geological and biological history is that a feline like animal is the ancestor of cats, and that a small horse-like animal is the ancestor to horses. But that horse-like animal had an ancestor. Eventually, as DNA evidence, fossil evidence, chromosomic evidence, mitochondrial evidence (mitochondrias, by the way, used to be individual cells, and now cohexist in symbiosis with most eukariotes.It even has its own DNA, and we can trace it back just as we trace any other DNA source. Even better, at least in humans, mitochondrial DNA is transmitted via maternal line, meaning mixing of genomes doesnt occur, allowing for extremelly precise dating), quirality evidence, continuous function evidence, and much more tells us, its obvious that ALL living beings we know of share a common ancestor. Where did this ancestor come from is a different issue, but abiogenesis shows us some mechanisms that may have allowed for proto-protolife to emmerge.
[/quote]

Actually the horse evolution was debunked as I'll provide a link for it.
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Re: Evolution debate in detail
« Reply #41 on: December 28, 2015, 01:50:24 PM »
Here's a link.

http://www.newgeology.us/presentation32.html

If it mentions something not apart of the theory of evolution then ignore it and deal with the evolution parts.
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Conker

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Re: Evolution debate in detail
« Reply #42 on: December 28, 2015, 02:18:38 PM »
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Fusing and duplicating is the mechanism. How did the mechanism evolved?
I dont understand what you mean. Fusing and duplication of chromosomes are errors in the replication of many living beings, and some not living, like viruses. Yes, some living organisms evolved to become not living. As long as it favours reproduction, it is a possibility.

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Logically speaking if its broke now it used to be fixed in the past.
Nice abuse of words. Both the human esophagus and the lungs share a tube, making me prone to choke. This is an obvious flaw in humans. This obviously mean that humans once didnt have that characteristics, right?

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Actually the horse evolution was debunked as I'll provide a link for it.
The horses have evolved, from another animal. I didnt cite any particular evolutionary lineage, so your argument is a strawman from the beggining.
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Re: Evolution debate in detail
« Reply #43 on: December 28, 2015, 03:16:40 PM »
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Fusing and duplicating is the mechanism. How did the mechanism evolved?

Quote
I dont understand what you mean. Fusing and duplication of chromosomes are errors in the replication of many living beings, and some not living, like viruses. Yes, some living organisms evolved to become not living. As long as it favours reproduction, it is a possibility.

Oh, if its that then that could be  a sign of a perfect system running down.

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Logically speaking if its broke now it used to be fixed in the past.

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Nice abuse of words. Both the human esophagus and the lungs share a tube, making me prone to choke. This is an obvious flaw in humans. This obviously mean that humans once didnt have that characteristics, right?

How am I abusing words? Also, maybe the esophagus and the lungs share the same tube so that way we can get more air. If you separate the two then you'll get half the air and get twice as tired twice as fast.

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Actually the horse evolution was debunked as I'll provide a link for it.
The horses have evolved, from another animal. I didnt cite any particular evolutionary lineage, so your argument is a strawman from the beggining.
[/quote]

What animal then did the horse evolved from?
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Re: Evolution debate in detail
« Reply #44 on: December 28, 2015, 09:26:36 PM »

What animal then did the horse evolved from?

Merychippus

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Re: Evolution debate in detail
« Reply #45 on: December 29, 2015, 11:49:03 AM »

What animal then did the horse evolved from?

Merychippus

Not according to this site.

http://www.angelfire.com/mi/dinosaurs/horse.html

Though I have a question, why do you take the word of scientists on the theory of evolution but not on the flat earth?
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Conker

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Re: Evolution debate in detail
« Reply #46 on: December 29, 2015, 01:13:55 PM »
This is not a joke society.
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Re: Evolution debate in detail
« Reply #47 on: December 29, 2015, 01:18:51 PM »

What animal then did the horse evolved from?

Merychippus

Not according to this site.

http://www.angelfire.com/mi/dinosaurs/horse.html

Though I have a question, why do you take the word of scientists on the theory of evolution but not on the flat earth?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Evolution_of_the_horse
" class="bbc_link" target="_blank" rel="noopener noreferrer">

The link I gave addressed that. Also, the smallest one is a hyrax which is not related to the horse.
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Conker

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Re: Evolution debate in detail
« Reply #48 on: December 29, 2015, 01:24:05 PM »

What animal then did the horse evolved from?

Merychippus

Not according to this site.

http://www.angelfire.com/mi/dinosaurs/horse.html

Though I have a question, why do you take the word of scientists on the theory of evolution but not on the flat earth?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Evolution_of_the_horse
" class="bbc_link" target="_blank" rel="noopener noreferrer">

The link I gave addressed that. Also, the smallest one is a hyrax which is not related to the horse.

None of the sources of that link are peer reviewed. So it means diddly squat. Even further, they are not publically avaliable, and Im not going to get my ISP behind my ass because of going too many times to libgen just to check whether that book has peer reviewed quotations.
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Re: Evolution debate in detail
« Reply #49 on: December 29, 2015, 01:29:37 PM »

What animal then did the horse evolved from?

Merychippus

Not according to this site.

http://www.angelfire.com/mi/dinosaurs/horse.html

Though I have a question, why do you take the word of scientists on the theory of evolution but not on the flat earth?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Evolution_of_the_horse
" class="bbc_link" target="_blank" rel="noopener noreferrer">

The link I gave addressed that. Also, the smallest one is a hyrax which is not related to the horse.

None of the sources of that link are peer reviewed. So it means diddly squat. Even further, they are not publically avaliable, and Im not going to get my ISP behind my ass because of going too many times to libgen just to check whether that book has peer reviewed quotations.

Just because it wasn't peered reviewed (the majority makes it right) doesn't mean that its wrong. What did they said that was wrong?
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Re: Evolution debate in detail
« Reply #50 on: December 29, 2015, 01:33:34 PM »
Scripture, facts, science, stats, and logic is how I argue.

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Conker

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Re: Evolution debate in detail
« Reply #51 on: December 29, 2015, 03:03:28 PM »

What animal then did the horse evolved from?

Merychippus

Not according to this site.

http://www.angelfire.com/mi/dinosaurs/horse.html

Though I have a question, why do you take the word of scientists on the theory of evolution but not on the flat earth?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Evolution_of_the_horse
" class="bbc_link" target="_blank" rel="noopener noreferrer">

The link I gave addressed that. Also, the smallest one is a hyrax which is not related to the horse.

None of the sources of that link are peer reviewed. So it means diddly squat. Even further, they are not publically avaliable, and Im not going to get my ISP behind my ass because of going too many times to libgen just to check whether that book has peer reviewed quotations.

Just because it wasn't peered reviewed (the majority makes it right) doesn't mean that its wrong. What did they said that was wrong?

That's not what peer reviewed means. Peer reviewed means that other scientists of the same field checked if there was any basic error on it. This is why being published in a peer-reviewed respected journal is so important. On the internet I can just make up my own shit, and say the earth is flat, there is no climate change, vaccines will give your kid autism, black people are dumber, or that evolution isnt real, or prove conclusivelly that hinduism is the one true religion. The thing is that I'm not a biologist (and neither are you), so I can't decide whether that website's claims are correct (neither can you, by the way). The only thing I can do is simply to point towards what actual biologists have investigated and come up with. The opinion of a senile 60 year old naval architect on biology is irrelevant, because if what he was saying was newsbreaking stuff, he could publish it (you dont need any degree to publish a paper, and indeed many papers have been published anonymously), and posibly received a Nobel prize for it. Remember, prizes, goverment funding, etc, all that comes with things that break the scientific stabilishment. Marie and Pierre Curie, Einstein, Bohr, all this people turned science upside down, and questioned the very pillars of physics that people thought were unnamovable. THEY are the ones remembered. THEY are the one's whose theory is being taught. Science is not so much the discovery of new ideas, as it is the rejection of wrong dogma. It is that what purges the Berzelius' out of the mainstream.

In short. If you can't manage to source your claims on peer-reviewed data published on a major journal...
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Re: Evolution debate in detail
« Reply #52 on: December 29, 2015, 03:25:16 PM »
Here's a video with documentation. It's about 6 minutes long.

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Conker

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Re: Evolution debate in detail
« Reply #53 on: December 29, 2015, 03:38:00 PM »
Here's a video with documentation. It's about 6 minutes long.

" class="bbc_link" target="_blank" rel="noopener noreferrer">
I can only see it citing Pravda, a newspaper. Unless you mean the incomplete quotations of books Hovind is doing on the vid.
Here's a better video on what Ham (a convicted fellon and fraudster) actually believes.
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Re: Evolution debate in detail
« Reply #54 on: December 29, 2015, 04:08:19 PM »
Here's a video with documentation. It's about 6 minutes long.

" class="bbc_link" target="_blank" rel="noopener noreferrer">
I can only see it citing Pravda, a newspaper. Unless you mean the incomplete quotations of books Hovind is doing on the vid.
Here's a better video on what Ham (a convicted fellon and fraudster) actually believes.
" class="bbc_link" target="_blank" rel="noopener noreferrer">

At 44 seconds in my link he also quotes something from "scientific" who quoted a evolutionist. Also Hovind may be a felon, but how is he a fraud? He was arrested for structuring which is basically taking less than $10000 from your own bank account. Plus, its not the person who we're arguing about, it's the argument he presented. Can you prove his claims false? As for your link, I would define "kind" as a family.
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Conker

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Re: Evolution debate in detail
« Reply #55 on: December 29, 2015, 04:23:43 PM »
Here's a video with documentation. It's about 6 minutes long.

" class="bbc_link" target="_blank" rel="noopener noreferrer">
I can only see it citing Pravda, a newspaper. Unless you mean the incomplete quotations of books Hovind is doing on the vid.
Here's a better video on what Ham (a convicted fellon and fraudster) actually believes.
" class="bbc_link" target="_blank" rel="noopener noreferrer">

At 44 seconds in my link he also quotes something from "scientific" who quoted a evolutionist. Also Hovind may be a felon, but how is he a fraud? He was arrested for structuring which is basically taking less than $10000 from your own bank account. Plus, its not the person who we're arguing about, it's the argument he presented. Can you prove his claims false? As for your link, I would define "kind" as a family.

He was arrested for cheating on his taxes. Thats tax fraud. Since I can't check the quotations he gives, because they are incomplete, and I don't have months of time to waste asking any biologist if they happened to have read a book who kind of sounded like that, like other systematic debunkers like potholer54 do, I cannot prove or disprove his claims.
If you define kind as a family, then that's ok, but I would rather call it family. And I would then ask you the question potholer54 asks on the video. If kinds can't change into another, how come ring species exist? And if you accept ring species as a natural outcome of a tree-like inheritance/variation scheme, what is that diferentiates your idea from evolution?
This is not a joke society.
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You shouldn't be allowed to talk on a free discussion forum.

*

Luke 22:35-38

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Re: Evolution debate in detail
« Reply #56 on: December 29, 2015, 05:26:49 PM »
Here's a video with documentation. It's about 6 minutes long.

" class="bbc_link" target="_blank" rel="noopener noreferrer">
I can only see it citing Pravda, a newspaper. Unless you mean the incomplete quotations of books Hovind is doing on the vid.
Here's a better video on what Ham (a convicted fellon and fraudster) actually believes.
" class="bbc_link" target="_blank" rel="noopener noreferrer">

At 44 seconds in my link he also quotes something from "scientific" who quoted a evolutionist. Also Hovind may be a felon, but how is he a fraud? He was arrested for structuring which is basically taking less than $10000 from your own bank account. Plus, its not the person who we're arguing about, it's the argument he presented. Can you prove his claims false? As for your link, I would define "kind" as a family.

He was arrested for cheating on his taxes. Thats tax fraud. Since I can't check the quotations he gives, because they are incomplete, and I don't have months of time to waste asking any biologist if they happened to have read a book who kind of sounded like that, like other systematic debunkers like potholer54 do, I cannot prove or disprove his claims.
If you define kind as a family, then that's ok, but I would rather call it family. And I would then ask you the question potholer54 asks on the video. If kinds can't change into another, how come ring species exist? And if you accept ring species as a natural outcome of a tree-like inheritance/variation scheme, what is that diferentiates your idea from evolution?

1. He was arrested for structuring and withhelding taxed mony to his employees or something in which the employees paid there own taxes. The IRS didnt lose a dime more than average (come April 15th and you'll see what I mean). Also as a church and not 501c3 he didn't had to pay certain taxes. So he didnt evade any taxes.

2. Notice its ring species, not ring families. Species can deverge to a point where they can't breed with another specie in the same family. But both of those can breed with a third party and reproduce. Can you show me from observation that there's such a thing as a family web? One family cross into another in modern times.
Scripture, facts, science, stats, and logic is how I argue.

Trans rights are human rights.

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Conker

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Re: Evolution debate in detail
« Reply #57 on: December 29, 2015, 06:04:02 PM »
Here's a video with documentation. It's about 6 minutes long.

" class="bbc_link" target="_blank" rel="noopener noreferrer">
I can only see it citing Pravda, a newspaper. Unless you mean the incomplete quotations of books Hovind is doing on the vid.
Here's a better video on what Ham (a convicted fellon and fraudster) actually believes.
" class="bbc_link" target="_blank" rel="noopener noreferrer">

At 44 seconds in my link he also quotes something from "scientific" who quoted a evolutionist. Also Hovind may be a felon, but how is he a fraud? He was arrested for structuring which is basically taking less than $10000 from your own bank account. Plus, its not the person who we're arguing about, it's the argument he presented. Can you prove his claims false? As for your link, I would define "kind" as a family.

He was arrested for cheating on his taxes. Thats tax fraud. Since I can't check the quotations he gives, because they are incomplete, and I don't have months of time to waste asking any biologist if they happened to have read a book who kind of sounded like that, like other systematic debunkers like potholer54 do, I cannot prove or disprove his claims.
If you define kind as a family, then that's ok, but I would rather call it family. And I would then ask you the question potholer54 asks on the video. If kinds can't change into another, how come ring species exist? And if you accept ring species as a natural outcome of a tree-like inheritance/variation scheme, what is that diferentiates your idea from evolution?

1. He was arrested for structuring and withhelding taxed mony to his employees or something in which the employees paid there own taxes. The IRS didnt lose a dime more than average (come April 15th and you'll see what I mean). Also as a church and not 501c3 he didn't had to pay certain taxes. So he didnt evade any taxes.

2. Notice its ring species, not ring families. Species can deverge to a point where they can't breed with another specie in the same family. But both of those can breed with a third party and reproduce. Can you show me from observation that there's such a thing as a family web? One family cross into another in modern times.

Not a web. A tree. One's a graph, the other is an strictly one parented directed acyclic zero-to-many children graph.
This is not a joke society.
Quote from: OpenedEyes
You shouldn't be allowed to talk on a free discussion forum.

*

Luke 22:35-38

  • 3736
  • +9/-8
  • The earth is a globe, DUH! prove its not
Re: Evolution debate in detail
« Reply #58 on: December 29, 2015, 06:11:47 PM »
So in other words we don't see families crossing in other than the fossil record which has been proven false.
Scripture, facts, science, stats, and logic is how I argue.

Trans rights are human rights.

*

Conker

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Re: Evolution debate in detail
« Reply #59 on: December 29, 2015, 06:38:43 PM »
So in other words we don't see families crossing in other than the fossil record which has been proven false.
Do you even read what I say? Do you understand what a tree is? https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tree_(graph_theory)
And, no, the fossil record isnt "false".
This is not a joke society.
Quote from: OpenedEyes
You shouldn't be allowed to talk on a free discussion forum.