Magnetic North

  • 57 Replies
  • 7742 Views
?

oeN

  • 48
Magnetic North
« on: November 19, 2015, 09:22:59 AM »
Please FE believers explain one thing. When You are circumnavigating the south pole, Going clockwise direction, taken by predominant winds of the southern ocean and of the coriolis force, if You take a compass with You, when You are circumnavigating, You are always heading North, or not? Is there some magnetic force or other forces pulling You to North/Center. If so what You think your compass would mark if You would go counter clock wise against the coriolis force and against the wind? Would it be the same?

*

ronxyz

  • 414
  • technologist
Re: Magnetic North
« Reply #1 on: November 19, 2015, 04:37:49 PM »
The coriolis effect is an apparent action wrapped in a theory. It is so misbehaved and unpredictable that it is more a popular myth than reality. Even so if true it's action against my ship is virtually nonexistent. The trade winds have no effect on a compass and not much against a ship. Other then being a flat plane the actual structure and shape of the Earth seems not to be know by common man. For the sake of argument using the popular flat Earth map that I think you are referring to, the ship would be going north when the front of the ship was pointing north, south when pointing south, west or east when going 90 degrees off of north.  All the other courses would be ne nw se sw. In the ball Earth theory model there is no magnetic direction, or very little, at the poles as you are sitting on top of the force. It is the same with the flat Earth. As an aside that may help you visualize what is going on, the north pole is a south pole force and the south pole is a north pole force. This has been proven as of long ago. The French are responsible for getting the naming convection backward and it has just been retained.
If the Earth is a ball why don't we fall off the bottom?

?

oeN

  • 48
Re: Magnetic North
« Reply #2 on: November 19, 2015, 04:58:32 PM »
The coriolis effect is an apparent action wrapped in a theory. It is so misbehaved and unpredictable that it is more a popular myth than reality. Even so if true it's action against my ship is virtually nonexistent. The trade winds have no effect on a compass and not much against a ship. Other then being a flat plane the actual structure and shape of the Earth seems not to be know by common man. For the sake of argument using the popular flat Earth map that I think you are referring to, the ship would be going north when the front of the ship was pointing north, south when pointing south, west or east when going 90 degrees off of north.  All the other courses would be ne nw se sw. In the ball Earth theory model there is no magnetic direction, or very little, at the poles as you are sitting on top of the force. It is the same with the flat Earth. As an aside that may help you visualize what is going on, the north pole is a south pole force and the south pole is a north pole force. This has been proven as of long ago. The French are responsible for getting the naming convection backward and it has just been retained.

Is there any force that pulls you inwards disk and gets You out off the limits. Why never no-one reached FE limits?

*

Son of Orospu

  • Jura's b*tch and proud of it!
  • Planar Moderator
  • 37834
  • I have artificial intelligence
Re: Magnetic North
« Reply #3 on: November 19, 2015, 05:18:44 PM »
Why would your compass read north when circumnavigating the south pole?  I can't picture this happening on a round or flat Earth.  Perhaps you are misinterpreting something that you may have read?  Can you explain further? 

?

oeN

  • 48
Re: Magnetic North
« Reply #4 on: November 19, 2015, 05:41:39 PM »
Why would your compass read north when circumnavigating the south pole?  I can't picture this happening on a round or flat Earth.  Perhaps you are misinterpreting something that you may have read?  Can you explain further?

I was just asking if You were circumnavigating the Southpole If it would indicate North in the compass, or if there is any force attracting You to the North or in the case of FE the center of the disk, of course in a FE there's no North, the North magnetic is the center of the disk. Making this simple: Supposing that we live in a FE what is the compass indicating, of course it is the center of the circle, but does that imply something? Cheers

*

Son of Orospu

  • Jura's b*tch and proud of it!
  • Planar Moderator
  • 37834
  • I have artificial intelligence
Re: Magnetic North
« Reply #5 on: November 19, 2015, 05:48:59 PM »
Why would your compass read north when circumnavigating the south pole?  I can't picture this happening on a round or flat Earth.  Perhaps you are misinterpreting something that you may have read?  Can you explain further?

I was just asking if You were circumnavigating the Southpole If it would indicate North in the compass, or if there is any force attracting You to the North or in the case of FE the center of the disk, of course in a FE there's no North, the North magnetic is the center of the disk. Making this simple: Supposing that we live in a FE what is the compass indicating, of course it is the center of the circle, but does that imply something? Cheers

Where is the south pole in this picture? 


?

oeN

  • 48
Re: Magnetic North
« Reply #6 on: November 19, 2015, 05:59:23 PM »
Why would your compass read north when circumnavigating the south pole?  I can't picture this happening on a round or flat Earth.  Perhaps you are misinterpreting something that you may have read?  Can you explain further?

I was just asking if You were circumnavigating the Southpole If it would indicate North in the compass, or if there is any force attracting You to the North or in the case of FE the center of the disk, of course in a FE there's no North, the North magnetic is the center of the disk. Making this simple: Supposing that we live in a FE what is the compass indicating, of course it is the center of the circle, but does that imply something? Cheers

Where is the south pole in this picture? 



Then forget about south pole, I want to know what is the meaning of a compass in a FE, if we're living in a disk that has compasses pointing North or center, what is that?

*

Son of Orospu

  • Jura's b*tch and proud of it!
  • Planar Moderator
  • 37834
  • I have artificial intelligence
Re: Magnetic North
« Reply #7 on: November 19, 2015, 06:06:27 PM »
Why would your compass read north when circumnavigating the south pole?  I can't picture this happening on a round or flat Earth.  Perhaps you are misinterpreting something that you may have read?  Can you explain further?

I was just asking if You were circumnavigating the Southpole If it would indicate North in the compass, or if there is any force attracting You to the North or in the case of FE the center of the disk, of course in a FE there's no North, the North magnetic is the center of the disk. Making this simple: Supposing that we live in a FE what is the compass indicating, of course it is the center of the circle, but does that imply something? Cheers

Where is the south pole in this picture? 


Then forget about south pole, I want to know what is the meaning of a compass in a FE, if we're living in a disk that has compasses pointing North or center, what is that?

A flat magnet? 

?

BJ1234

  • 1931
Re: Magnetic North
« Reply #8 on: November 19, 2015, 06:10:54 PM »
Why would your compass read north when circumnavigating the south pole?  I can't picture this happening on a round or flat Earth.  Perhaps you are misinterpreting something that you may have read?  Can you explain further?

I was just asking if You were circumnavigating the Southpole If it would indicate North in the compass, or if there is any force attracting You to the North or in the case of FE the center of the disk, of course in a FE there's no North, the North magnetic is the center of the disk. Making this simple: Supposing that we live in a FE what is the compass indicating, of course it is the center of the circle, but does that imply something? Cheers

Where is the south pole in this picture? 



Then forget about south pole, I want to know what is the meaning of a compass in a FE, if we're living in a disk that has compasses pointing North or center, what is that?

The meaning of a compass would be to navigate, just like on a round earth.

Re: Magnetic North
« Reply #9 on: November 19, 2015, 11:10:28 PM »
Where is the south pole in this picture? 

So are you now claiming there is no specific south pole?

You seem quite flexible with your argument ... let's look at another thread ...

Secondly, the south magnetic pole is not within Antarctica.  It is in the ocean, quite far from the Antarctic shore line.  How does a flight over water prove anything?

I am so glad you agree with the fact that a magnetic south pole exists ...

... as this would be impossible on a flat earth you must finally believe in a spherical earth.

Why do you people insist that a flat Earth can not have poles?

So which is it? Because you are wrong in one of those arguments then ...

?

tomfi

  • 58
  • Do some math
Re: Magnetic North
« Reply #10 on: November 20, 2015, 12:52:14 AM »
The coriolis effect is an apparent action wrapped in a theory. It is so misbehaved and unpredictable that it is more a popular myth than reality. Even so if true it's action against my ship is virtually nonexistent. The trade winds have no effect on a compass and not much against a ship. Other then being a flat plane the actual structure and shape of the Earth seems not to be know by common man. For the sake of argument using the popular flat Earth map that I think you are referring to, the ship would be going north when the front of the ship was pointing north, south when pointing south, west or east when going 90 degrees off of north.  All the other courses would be ne nw se sw. In the ball Earth theory model there is no magnetic direction, or very little, at the poles as you are sitting on top of the force. It is the same with the flat Earth. As an aside that may help you visualize what is going on, the north pole is a south pole force and the south pole is a north pole force. This has been proven as of long ago. The French are responsible for getting the naming convection backward and it has just been retained.
West is not 90 degrees to the north!!!! that's misleading... because going East with your definition you will end up on the edge. Just using logic and the FE map I may continue: if you point the laser to East (with your definition of East), you are pointing it to Antarctica and having strong enough laser, you melt a hole in Antarctica if you point it on in East or West direction.

Your east and west definition need to be rewritten ...

actually they need to rewrite it here too: http://www.theflatearthsociety.org/tiki/tiki-index.php?page=Circumnavigation Because they provide explanation "its not possible to go straight because of human inaccuracy" ... so explanation just ignore precision tools we have.


I wonder using this slow approach of reinventing precision, how long will it take to actually get into problems that "Flat Earth model" run into in 17th century.
« Last Edit: November 20, 2015, 01:09:49 AM by tomfi »
Please give me working sunset calculation that works with FE model !

?

oeN

  • 48
Re: Magnetic North
« Reply #11 on: November 20, 2015, 03:33:12 AM »
The coriolis effect is an apparent action wrapped in a theory. It is so misbehaved and unpredictable that it is more a popular myth than reality. Even so if true it's action against my ship is virtually nonexistent. The trade winds have no effect on a compass and not much against a ship. Other then being a flat plane the actual structure and shape of the Earth seems not to be know by common man. For the sake of argument using the popular flat Earth map that I think you are referring to, the ship would be going north when the front of the ship was pointing north, south when pointing south, west or east when going 90 degrees off of north.  All the other courses would be ne nw se sw. In the ball Earth theory model there is no magnetic direction, or very little, at the poles as you are sitting on top of the force. It is the same with the flat Earth. As an aside that may help you visualize what is going on, the north pole is a south pole force and the south pole is a north pole force. This has been proven as of long ago. The French are responsible for getting the naming convection backward and it has just been retained.
West is not 90 degrees to the north!!!! that's misleading... because going East with your definition you will end up on the edge. Just using logic and the FE map I may continue: if you point the laser to East (with your definition of East), you are pointing it to Antarctica and having strong enough laser, you melt a hole in Antarctica if you point it on in East or West direction.

Your east and west definition need to be rewritten ...

actually they need to rewrite it here too: http://www.theflatearthsociety.org/tiki/tiki-index.php?page=Circumnavigation Because they provide explanation "its not possible to go straight because of human inaccuracy" ... so explanation just ignore precision tools we have.


I wonder using this slow approach of reinventing precision, how long will it take to actually get into problems that "Flat Earth model" run into in 17th century.

Thank You tom, at least someone understood my question... If there isn't any force pull You to the center then, like in the excellent example You gave of the laser, it would have gone out of the disk...

*

ronxyz

  • 414
  • technologist
Re: Magnetic North
« Reply #12 on: November 20, 2015, 03:48:03 AM »
If you just draw a line west it will do as you say, but if you travel as the original question in a boat than as you go west the compass will adjust in a westerly arc as the compass continually points north while you are traveling. As you go alone you will always be heading west by the compass. I assumed that would be understood it is so obvious.
If the Earth is a ball why don't we fall off the bottom?

?

oeN

  • 48
Re: Magnetic North
« Reply #13 on: November 20, 2015, 03:59:58 AM »
If you just draw a line west it will do as you say, but if you travel as the original question in a boat than as you go west the compass will adjust in a westerly arc as the compass continually points north while you are traveling. As you go alone you will always be heading west by the compass. I assumed that would be understood it is so obvious.

So the magnetic force still exists in a FE, the thing is, this force is not located in the pole but rather in the the center. Am I correct?

Re: Magnetic North
« Reply #14 on: November 20, 2015, 05:12:39 AM »
Where is the south pole in this picture? 


Because the magnet has a hole in it, both poles are basically in the center of this hole. I cannot see how thick/thin is it, but one can get the idea.

So if the Earth was flat, the south magnetic pole (SMP) would be under the disk (the other, unreachable side). But, currently SMP is located outside the Antarctica land.
See https://www.polartrec.com/expeditions/totten-glacier-system-in-east-antarctica/journals/2014-01-14 for details.

That creates a simple question - how can a magnetic disk have both poles at the same side? For the globe shape, magnietic poles are moreless on the opposite sides. At least, looking at the picture provided, globe deviation of both magnetic poles looks more plausible.

Giving some idea to the OP, using compass to navigate would be a super bad solution. If you are close to SMP, going north (based on compass) you can land on Antarctica.

*

Son of Orospu

  • Jura's b*tch and proud of it!
  • Planar Moderator
  • 37834
  • I have artificial intelligence
Re: Magnetic North
« Reply #15 on: November 20, 2015, 10:06:10 AM »
Where is the south pole in this picture? 

So are you now claiming there is no specific south pole?

You seem quite flexible with your argument ... let's look at another thread ...

Secondly, the south magnetic pole is not within Antarctica.  It is in the ocean, quite far from the Antarctic shore line.  How does a flight over water prove anything?

I am so glad you agree with the fact that a magnetic south pole exists ...

... as this would be impossible on a flat earth you must finally believe in a spherical earth.

Why do you people insist that a flat Earth can not have poles?

So which is it? Because you are wrong in one of those arguments then ...

Hey, moron, those two quotes do not contradict each other.  ::)

*

Son of Orospu

  • Jura's b*tch and proud of it!
  • Planar Moderator
  • 37834
  • I have artificial intelligence
Re: Magnetic North
« Reply #16 on: November 20, 2015, 10:08:58 AM »
Where is the south pole in this picture? 


Because the magnet has a hole in it, both poles are basically in the center of this hole. I cannot see how thick/thin is it, but one can get the idea.

So if the Earth was flat, the south magnetic pole (SMP) would be under the disk (the other, unreachable side). But, currently SMP is located outside the Antarctica land.
See https://www.polartrec.com/expeditions/totten-glacier-system-in-east-antarctica/journals/2014-01-14 for details.

That creates a simple question - how can a magnetic disk have both poles at the same side? For the globe shape, magnietic poles are moreless on the opposite sides. At least, looking at the picture provided, globe deviation of both magnetic poles looks more plausible.

Giving some idea to the OP, using compass to navigate would be a super bad solution. If you are close to SMP, going north (based on compass) you can land on Antarctica.

The south pole is under the north pole on that magnet.  ::)

*

ronxyz

  • 414
  • technologist
Re: Magnetic North
« Reply #17 on: November 20, 2015, 01:22:11 PM »
The north magnetic field is not a 'pole'. It is not really known what it is on the  Earth. It does move around and drifts in an arc in the north pole area. The examples you see with a bar magnet stuck in the Earth is a simplification to give an idea how the field lines look, which is wrong. A bar magnet has a weak spot, neutral, in the center between the ends. The field of a bar magnet looks more like a figure 8. The figure 8 magnetic field does not fit the magnetic field of the Earth ether a ball or a flat plane. It is just an illustration being used as a learning tool. The field of the Earth is not constant as there are north pole energies in other parts of the world. This is tracked and mapped so you can see for yourself. The magnetic field of the Earth does match the disk magnet perfectly though.
If the Earth is a ball why don't we fall off the bottom?

*

ronxyz

  • 414
  • technologist
Re: Magnetic North
« Reply #18 on: November 20, 2015, 02:55:58 PM »
Your question about the prevailing winds on the Earth looks to be a good place for this. After the page loads just Click on Earth to make data choices. Another related to you question is currents, that choice is there also. You will note how smooth and logical the patterns look on the flat Earth and how chaotic and chaos the ball Earth model looks.

http://earth.nullschool.net/#current/wind/surface/level/azimuthal_equidistant

Thanks to the author and the post at the other flat Earth web site for the link. I compiled this on my local machine and may put it on my server as a flat Earth weather station.
If the Earth is a ball why don't we fall off the bottom?

?

oeN

  • 48
Re: Magnetic North
« Reply #19 on: November 20, 2015, 04:21:14 PM »
Your question about the prevailing winds on the Earth looks to be a good place for this. After the page loads just Click on Earth to make data choices. Another related to you question is currents, that choice is there also. You will note how smooth and logical the patterns look on the flat Earth and how chaotic and chaos the ball Earth model looks.

http://earth.nullschool.net/#current/wind/surface/level/azimuthal_equidistant

Thanks to the author and the post at the other flat Earth web site for the link. I compiled this on my local machine and may put it on my server as a flat Earth weather station.

Thanks for sharing the link, looks nice! Tell me one thing, in Your opinion, why do You think we're unable to reach the limits of the Earth? Is this reality that we know just a software program:

-“DNA is like a computer program but far, far more advanced than any software ever created.” - Bill Gates

Do You think outside the disk there's nothing but empty lines of code, is there only darkness, or what?

*

ronxyz

  • 414
  • technologist
Re: Magnetic North
« Reply #20 on: November 20, 2015, 04:41:09 PM »
I do not know, but I have seen things that would be impossible, against the known laws of nature. Others report these things all the time. This is not to say that it must be a manifestation of some, but it would explain it. It also could be that humans have some powers or abilities that they do not have full control over. These abilities then pop up under certain situations. Do cats have the power of focused energy? I was in my 5 ton truck with my son when our cat jumped up on the hood. After walking a few steps it pounced on something on the hood. We noticed that as the pounce took place that our glasses of drink on the dash shook enough to make the liquid move about. Think about it a little cat versus a 5 ton truck. I had my son go out and jump on the truck, no movement of the liquid. If fact he could not get those big spring a budge. Things happen I guess, we need to observe and learn daily. It could be a digital reality or one of many. It could be just in God's eye.
If the Earth is a ball why don't we fall off the bottom?

*

ronxyz

  • 414
  • technologist
Re: Magnetic North
« Reply #21 on: November 20, 2015, 04:54:40 PM »
On reaching the limits. The early explorers said the North had a void at the center that was not always findable. At the south a 100 foot wall all the way around, a short plateau, then a 10,000 foot tall ridge, this extended far out of sight, it had a few features like mountains and rocky outcropping. It was said to be rich in minerals, coal uranium. It would be a huge task to explore past this point, but I think they did. What they found is not public. The restricting of access was put in place at this time. A bit of a mystery.
« Last Edit: November 20, 2015, 09:51:54 PM by ronxyz »
If the Earth is a ball why don't we fall off the bottom?

Re: Magnetic North
« Reply #22 on: November 20, 2015, 09:34:51 PM »
The south pole is under the north pole on that magnet.  ::)
Which is obvious.

Now we have the rest of my post that remains unanswered. The question is bolded for the convenience.
So if the Earth was flat, the south magnetic pole (SMP) would be under the disk (the other, unreachable side). But, currently SMP is located outside the Antarctica land.
See https://www.polartrec.com/expeditions/totten-glacier-system-in-east-antarctica/journals/2014-01-14 for details.

That creates a simple question - how can a magnetic disk have both poles at the same side? For the globe shape, magnietic poles are moreless on the opposite sides. At least, looking at the picture provided, globe deviation of both magnetic poles looks more plausible.

*

ronxyz

  • 414
  • technologist
Re: Magnetic North
« Reply #23 on: November 20, 2015, 09:59:06 PM »
A disk magnet is just like shown here. The center is one pole type and the the edge is the other. Find or buy one and you will see. Old tv sets/monitors have one on picture tube. Microwave cookers have nice ones. Sometimes you can find them in yard sell or the junk shops. Get a few and check them out. Your question is based on a wrong assumption and has no merit.
If the Earth is a ball why don't we fall off the bottom?

Re: Magnetic North
« Reply #24 on: November 21, 2015, 12:06:50 AM »
Your question is based on a wrong assumption and has no merit.
I do not assume anything, I state the fact that the magnetic poles are nowhere near the center of the disk (North at the top, South at the bottom).  Their deviation is hundrets of km from the geographic poles. For the South Magnetic Pole, which is outside of Antarctica, it clearly means that both poles are on the same side of the disc.

*

ronxyz

  • 414
  • technologist
Re: Magnetic North
« Reply #25 on: November 21, 2015, 12:40:49 AM »
Yes just like you say, the center is the north, a south energy field, and all the way around the outer edge is the south, a north energy field. The magnetic field changes a little hour by hour, it is not continuous and the actual magnetic field is not exactly the geographical center. You can not just transfer the theoretical ball Earth to a flat Plane without distortion and things not in their right place. Before the ball Earth deception everyone used plane surveying and got alone just fine. Traveling with a compass works just the same on both. Some of those old maps are very accurate.
If the Earth is a ball why don't we fall off the bottom?

Re: Magnetic North
« Reply #26 on: November 21, 2015, 01:14:38 AM »
The magnetic field changes a little hour by hour, it is not continuous and the actual magnetic field is not exactly the geographical center.
You can not just transfer the theoretical ball Earth to a flat Plane without distortion and things not in their right place.
I agree with that. But given the size of the Earth's magnetic disc, it would be basically impossible to keep both magnetic poles at the same side of the disc. This is my concern I do now know how to fix. Regular magnetic shapes tend to keep their opposite magnetic poles on the opposite sides (almost symmetric positioning). That rule is not obeyed by the Earth's disc. I could not find any example of such distribution of magnetic lines for any magnetic disc. Those looking "promising" had their poles near edges of the disc.

If you know any explaination of that, I am ready to read this.


Travelling with compass does not work actually very good. I would not recommend using it for the navigation "below" the equator (close to the Antarctica).

*

ronxyz

  • 414
  • technologist
Re: Magnetic North
« Reply #27 on: November 21, 2015, 01:34:25 AM »
I have some of those disc magnets and it is as I described. The center is one field and the outer edge is the other. If you try to stack them they flip to the be NSNSNS just like other magnetics.  I could not find any examples of the field either, drawings or from iron dust. The picture in this thread showing all the compasses around the disc is how it really is. I am not saying the flat world plane is exactly like that though, but because ships sailed all around using a compass and a flat World map it must be something like that. I will get some fillings and a disc magnet out and take a picture so you can see it.

If the Earth is a ball why don't we fall off the bottom?

*

rabinoz

  • 26528
  • Real Earth Believer
Re: Magnetic North
« Reply #28 on: November 23, 2015, 09:21:13 PM »
I am not saying the flat world plane is exactly like that though, but because ships sailed all around using a compass and a flat World map it must be something like that.
Saying ships sailed with "a flat World map" is not strictly true.  Detailed charts were necessarily flat for storage, but were "projections" of the globe.  Quite a number of old navigators did actually carry a fair sized globe on board to give a better picture of where they were on a global scale.  This is what they might have looked like, though this is just a reproduction:

These navigators, right from early times, were under no illusions as to the earth's shape - they KNEW it was a Globe!

*

TheEngineer

  • Planar Moderator
  • 15483
  • GPS does not require satellites.
Re: Magnetic North
« Reply #29 on: November 23, 2015, 09:33:08 PM »
I agree with that. But given the size of the Earth's magnetic disc, it would be basically impossible to keep both magnetic poles at the same side of the disc. This is my concern I do now know how to fix. Regular magnetic shapes tend to keep their opposite magnetic poles on the opposite sides (almost symmetric positioning). That rule is not obeyed by the Earth's disc. I could not find any example of such distribution of magnetic lines for any magnetic disc. Those looking "promising" had their poles near edges of the disc.
The poles are not on the same side of the disk.  They are on opposite sides.  One on the top, the other on the bottom.


"I haven't been wrong since 1961, when I thought I made a mistake."
        -- Bob Hudson