Hmm, I wonder how tides work on a flat Earth? Do they? No.

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sandokhan

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Re: Hmm, I wonder how tides work on a flat Earth? Do they? No.
« Reply #30 on: November 16, 2015, 12:18:56 PM »
You dummy.

You have no real knowledge of general physics.

The reason the earth and moon don't equally attract each other is because they each attract each other with different amounts of force, in the case of the earth, it attracts more.

The Earth’s attractive gravitation balances the orbital centrifugal force of the Moon.
The Moon’s attractive gravitation balances the orbital centrifugal force of the Earth.

At first this may seem like an orderly and balanced attractive force system; however,... the following paradox exists. If the seat, source and cause of the "apparent" attraction forces are "internal" to each of the bodies...the attraction concept produces twice the force that is necessary to balance the centrifugal orbital forces of a planet moon system. The concept of "attraction" between bodies requires that the force “from” each separate body acts on the remote body,-- and equally on the originating body. Another example of a balanced system is a rope under tension; each end has an equal amount of opposing force. As noted by Newton's third law of motion, " To every action there is always an opposed  equal reaction".


This example may help visualize the double force issue.

Let there be two rafts ( x and y )  freely floating on a clear calm lake with a rope between them.
Both rafts are still and are a rope length apart. 
The man on (raft x) pulls on the rope which is attached to raft y.
Raft x will move toward raft y,… and raft y will move toward raft x.
Both rafts will receive equal and opposite force and motion. 
It is not possible for (raft x) to remain still and be the source of the force.   


Within the "attraction" concepts:

From Earth, the concept requires that Earth's gravity is attracting the Moon; and an equal Earth anchored “attraction” force is pulling the Earth toward the Moon.

From the Moon, the Moon's gravity is attracting the Earth; and this Moon seated force is equally pulling the Moon toward the Earth.
 

Using: 1 ) Newton’s equation as given above, 2 ) basic arithmetic, 3 ) common logic and 4 ) the mechanics of force, it is shown that the assumed Earth and Moon seated forces are equal; and as a result;…"all attraction models" produce twice the force that is required to balance the centrifugal forces of orbit!


Now you understand? The attractive gravity produces TWICE the forces needed to balance the centrifugal forces of orbit.


In fact, it was for this very reason that Newton dismissed the piece of garbage called the law of universal attraction:

"This paradox only arises within "attraction" type models and it also raises the following question: If this paradox is true and important, why was it not addressed by Newton, the author of our gravitational math? The following quote from a letter by Sir Isaac Newton should answer the above question.  This quote expresses his firm opinion opposing the concept that gravity (attraction) acted through empty space as an “inherent” property of matter.

Quote "...that one body may act upon another at a distance through a vacuum without the mediation of anything else, by and through which their action and force may be conveyed from one to another, is to me so great an absurdity that I believe no man, who has in philosophic matters a competent faculty of thinking, could ever fall into it." Unquote

Since Newton considered the attraction concept "so great an absurdity"; it seems reasonable to assume that he would not have spent time contemplating the detailed mechanics of an absurd attractive system. Therefore he may not have encountered or addressed the double force paradox. People do not normally study hypothesis that they believe are not correct, or hypothesis that they do not have an interest in.

It also appears certain that Newton would never have believed that for one hundred plus years our Twenty and Twenty First Century Natural Philosophy Societies, learned professors, authors and students would fall into believing, teaching and propagating the concept “that one body may act upon another at a distance through a vacuum without the mediation of anything else”."

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JRoweSkeptic

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Re: Hmm, I wonder how tides work on a flat Earth? Do they? No.
« Reply #31 on: November 16, 2015, 12:29:05 PM »
The DE answer is simply borne from the fact the downwards force, which you call gravity, is not predicted to be uniform: this will cause the flow we observe. At some points, it will be greater, and water will flow away from those points, causing tides.
This is a similar effect to that which carries the moon's light, a sentence only meaningful to those that know DET, but the answer remains.

Here's betting Kirk will leap on this and whinge about it being ad hoc, despite no new behaviors or additions to DET being required. he does so love talking about a model he knows nothing about.

First off, gravity isn't a downwards force. It's an attractive force. There's really no such thing as down. Secondly, how can a downwards force, in the case of FET, cause the oceans to rise and fall? The reason the tides exist is because of an external force from an external body with gravity. Tides can't be caused by the forces on an object itself.

If you have a diagram showing how the tides work with FET, then I'd love to see if, but as it stands, Kirk is right, this is a rather ad hoc explanation.
There is a downwards force on a FE, which is what I'm talking about.
You cannot assume your explanation is the only possible explanation. A low tide in one place causes a high tide elsewhere. An external force is behind the tides in both models.

It isn't ad hoc, it's a natural consequence of the existing DE model, which is in turn a consequence of a simply defined and deduced entity. It only seems odd because you don't know the model from which it comes.
For a simpler diagram:

The sea flat
__________
A downwards force on the left:
______-----
And on the right:
-------____

What the force is, stems from part of the DE model that would take too long to explain. It's linked to the rotation motion we observe in the heavens.

Okay, but what exactly causes the unequal forces on a flat Earth? Magic?

Did you just ignore my post?

What the force is, stems from part of the DE model that would take too long to explain. It's linked to the rotational motion we observe in the heavens.

What you're asking is akin to asking a REer to explain the Coriolis effect without knowing anything about gravity or the solar system. You'd need to explain orbits, rotation, and then the effect itself.
http://fet.wikia.com
dualearththeory.proboards.com/
On the sister site if you want to talk.

Re: Hmm, I wonder how tides work on a flat Earth? Do they? No.
« Reply #32 on: November 16, 2015, 12:37:44 PM »
The tides work due to expansion and contraction of the dome, creating pressure changes.
For an analogy, just think of a rubber dome covering a bowl half full of water.
You now have air and water under that dome. Now press down slightly on the dome, very slowly and you see a build up of water rising in the bowl.
Release that pressure slowly and you will see the water recede.

That's as simple as it happens. The only difference is the Earth's central energy source creates the expansion and contraction from within, as a self preservation cell.

Ignoring for a moment that nobody has ever seen this dome or observed effects we would expect to see if such a dome exists, how does it's contraction/expansion not cause the ground to crumple/expand beneath us? We would see catastrophic earthquakes as often as we see the tides come in.

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TheEarthIsASphere.

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Re: Hmm, I wonder how tides work on a flat Earth? Do they? No.
« Reply #33 on: November 16, 2015, 12:43:06 PM »
The DE answer is simply borne from the fact the downwards force, which you call gravity, is not predicted to be uniform: this will cause the flow we observe. At some points, it will be greater, and water will flow away from those points, causing tides.
This is a similar effect to that which carries the moon's light, a sentence only meaningful to those that know DET, but the answer remains.

Here's betting Kirk will leap on this and whinge about it being ad hoc, despite no new behaviors or additions to DET being required. he does so love talking about a model he knows nothing about.

First off, gravity isn't a downwards force. It's an attractive force. There's really no such thing as down. Secondly, how can a downwards force, in the case of FET, cause the oceans to rise and fall? The reason the tides exist is because of an external force from an external body with gravity. Tides can't be caused by the forces on an object itself.

If you have a diagram showing how the tides work with FET, then I'd love to see if, but as it stands, Kirk is right, this is a rather ad hoc explanation.
There is a downwards force on a FE, which is what I'm talking about.
You cannot assume your explanation is the only possible explanation. A low tide in one place causes a high tide elsewhere. An external force is behind the tides in both models.

It isn't ad hoc, it's a natural consequence of the existing DE model, which is in turn a consequence of a simply defined and deduced entity. It only seems odd because you don't know the model from which it comes.
For a simpler diagram:

The sea flat
__________
A downwards force on the left:
______-----
And on the right:
-------____

What the force is, stems from part of the DE model that would take too long to explain. It's linked to the rotation motion we observe in the heavens.

Okay, but what exactly causes the unequal forces on a flat Earth? Magic?

Did you just ignore my post?

What the force is, stems from part of the DE model that would take too long to explain. It's linked to the rotational motion we observe in the heavens.

What you're asking is akin to asking a REer to explain the Coriolis effect without knowing anything about gravity or the solar system. You'd need to explain orbits, rotation, and then the effect itself.

Are you a implying that you don't know squat about your own theory? You don't need a knowledge of gravity, or the solar system to explain the coroiolis effect.
Quā ratiōne nōn redimus ad senectēs societātēs sapientium patrum? Quā ratiōne relinquimus eārum sapientiam?

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TheEarthIsASphere.

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Re: Hmm, I wonder how tides work on a flat Earth? Do they? No.
« Reply #34 on: November 16, 2015, 12:51:23 PM »
Again sandokhan, you don't seem to understand that different masses equates to different amounts of force. What would happen if raft "x" had 10 times the mass as raft "y" and was therefore heavier? If this is the case, then raft "x" will be able to pull raft "y" towards it more than raft "y" pulls raft "x" toward itself.
Quā ratiōne nōn redimus ad senectēs societātēs sapientium patrum? Quā ratiōne relinquimus eārum sapientiam?

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oeN

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Re: Hmm, I wonder how tides work on a flat Earth? Do they? No.
« Reply #35 on: November 16, 2015, 12:54:20 PM »
Does this implies that You believe that Russians and Americans control the weather with weapons, and so they control tides, etc.?

God, no. You can't "control" the weather. It's an unpredictable machine with so many variables. In the case of the tides, you simply can't just make the ocean levels "rise" in certain places and "fall" in others. You'd need an external force, in this case, the gravity of the moon and sun, acting upon the bodies of water in order for them to rise and fall.

Yeesh.

I've heard this conspiracy theory before, that Russians and Americans have weapons that can control the weather and therefore the sea, etc... They even say that the Tsunamis, hurricanes are caused by them, that is experiments...

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TheEarthIsASphere.

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Re: Hmm, I wonder how tides work on a flat Earth? Do they? No.
« Reply #36 on: November 16, 2015, 12:57:46 PM »
Or even better, let's assume that the man in raft "x" is 10 times stronger than the man in raft "y". We'll assume that "x" is the Earth and "y" is the moon. If they are both pulling at the same time, but "x" has a stronger pull, then "x" will pull "y" towards itself faster than "y" pulls "x" towards itself because the man in "x" is stronger.

There, I've destroyed your raft analogy in one fell swoop. What bullshit are you going to try and refute me with now?
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JRoweSkeptic

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Re: Hmm, I wonder how tides work on a flat Earth? Do they? No.
« Reply #37 on: November 16, 2015, 01:00:29 PM »
The DE answer is simply borne from the fact the downwards force, which you call gravity, is not predicted to be uniform: this will cause the flow we observe. At some points, it will be greater, and water will flow away from those points, causing tides.
This is a similar effect to that which carries the moon's light, a sentence only meaningful to those that know DET, but the answer remains.

Here's betting Kirk will leap on this and whinge about it being ad hoc, despite no new behaviors or additions to DET being required. he does so love talking about a model he knows nothing about.

First off, gravity isn't a downwards force. It's an attractive force. There's really no such thing as down. Secondly, how can a downwards force, in the case of FET, cause the oceans to rise and fall? The reason the tides exist is because of an external force from an external body with gravity. Tides can't be caused by the forces on an object itself.

If you have a diagram showing how the tides work with FET, then I'd love to see if, but as it stands, Kirk is right, this is a rather ad hoc explanation.
There is a downwards force on a FE, which is what I'm talking about.
You cannot assume your explanation is the only possible explanation. A low tide in one place causes a high tide elsewhere. An external force is behind the tides in both models.

It isn't ad hoc, it's a natural consequence of the existing DE model, which is in turn a consequence of a simply defined and deduced entity. It only seems odd because you don't know the model from which it comes.
For a simpler diagram:

The sea flat
__________
A downwards force on the left:
______-----
And on the right:
-------____

What the force is, stems from part of the DE model that would take too long to explain. It's linked to the rotation motion we observe in the heavens.

Okay, but what exactly causes the unequal forces on a flat Earth? Magic?

Did you just ignore my post?

What the force is, stems from part of the DE model that would take too long to explain. It's linked to the rotational motion we observe in the heavens.

What you're asking is akin to asking a REer to explain the Coriolis effect without knowing anything about gravity or the solar system. You'd need to explain orbits, rotation, and then the effect itself.

Are you a implying that you don't know squat about your own theory? You don't need a knowledge of gravity, or the solar system to explain the coroiolis effect.

You do. How else do you explain air staying near the Earth, and its rotations?
I know my own theory. The problem is you do not. You'll need to understand aether, the subsequent shape of the Earth and its inherent relationship, and then you'll understand the 'whirlpools' that form over the Earth, causing celestial motion and gravity: which also cause the Coriolis effect and the altering downwards force.
http://fet.wikia.com
dualearththeory.proboards.com/
On the sister site if you want to talk.

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TheEarthIsASphere.

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Re: Hmm, I wonder how tides work on a flat Earth? Do they? No.
« Reply #38 on: November 16, 2015, 01:02:49 PM »
Does this implies that You believe that Russians and Americans control the weather with weapons, and so they control tides, etc.?

God, no. You can't "control" the weather. It's an unpredictable machine with so many variables. In the case of the tides, you simply can't just make the ocean levels "rise" in certain places and "fall" in others. You'd need an external force, in this case, the gravity of the moon and sun, acting upon the bodies of water in order for them to rise and fall.

Yeesh.

I've heard this conspiracy theory before, that Russians and Americans have weapons that can control the weather and therefore the sea, etc... They even say that the Tsunamis, hurricanes are caused by them, that is experiments...

Okay, let's assume that somehow we can control the weather. First off, Tsunamis aren't caused by the weather, they're caused when the tectonic plates that the crust of the Earth is comprised of grind against each other in the middle of the ocean, and cause an earthquake. Secondly, hurricanes are caused by variations in the temperature of the atmosphere in various places. You can't just "change the temperature". Finally, there's no way that the government can magically cause the ocean levels to rise on two opposite sides of the planet, and fall on the other sides. It's just not possible.
Quā ratiōne nōn redimus ad senectēs societātēs sapientium patrum? Quā ratiōne relinquimus eārum sapientiam?

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oeN

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Re: Hmm, I wonder how tides work on a flat Earth? Do they? No.
« Reply #39 on: November 16, 2015, 01:18:10 PM »
Does this implies that You believe that Russians and Americans control the weather with weapons, and so they control tides, etc.?

God, no. You can't "control" the weather. It's an unpredictable machine with so many variables. In the case of the tides, you simply can't just make the ocean levels "rise" in certain places and "fall" in others. You'd need an external force, in this case, the gravity of the moon and sun, acting upon the bodies of water in order for them to rise and fall.

Yeesh.

I've heard this conspiracy theory before, that Russians and Americans have weapons that can control the weather and therefore the sea, etc... They even say that the Tsunamis, hurricanes are caused by them, that is experiments...

Okay, let's assume that somehow we can control the weather. First off, Tsunamis aren't caused by the weather, they're caused when the tectonic plates that the crust of the Earth is comprised of grind against each other in the middle of the ocean, and cause an earthquake. Secondly, hurricanes are caused by variations in the temperature of the atmosphere in various places. You can't just "change the temperature". Finally, there's no way that the government can magically cause the ocean levels to rise on two opposite sides of the planet, and fall on the other sides. It's just not possible.

I know that Tsunamis are no caused by either conditions, I put them together with the rest because it's part of the theory as well. Basically they say Tsunamis are provoked by nuclear underground explosions. As for the Hurricanes and storms that's basically what You said, they believe that they have some kind of weapons that pointed to the atmosphere can change pressures, temperatures, etc... and from there You can cause any kind of storm. As for the tides I believe that wouldn't be so  difficult to do it like You think, thou I think it's very unlikely, but You have to consider that all the seas and oceans are totally different even considering they are all connected they have their own properties and different densities, You can see it even in the rivers, different water don't mix, that's what happens in the Gulf of Alaska or in Cape Agulhas where the oceans meat and the indian ocean changes current, but like I said, I think is very unlikely that someone would have been controlling the tides in such synchronised way, for ages...

Heres's the link I've found about weather control:

- http://www.wanttoknow.info/war/haarp_weather_modification_electromagnetic_warfare_weapons

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TheEarthIsASphere.

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Re: Hmm, I wonder how tides work on a flat Earth? Do they? No.
« Reply #40 on: November 16, 2015, 01:27:14 PM »
Does this implies that You believe that Russians and Americans control the weather with weapons, and so they control tides, etc.?

God, no. You can't "control" the weather. It's an unpredictable machine with so many variables. In the case of the tides, you simply can't just make the ocean levels "rise" in certain places and "fall" in others. You'd need an external force, in this case, the gravity of the moon and sun, acting upon the bodies of water in order for them to rise and fall.

Yeesh.

I've heard this conspiracy theory before, that Russians and Americans have weapons that can control the weather and therefore the sea, etc... They even say that the Tsunamis, hurricanes are caused by them, that is experiments...

Okay, let's assume that somehow we can control the weather. First off, Tsunamis aren't caused by the weather, they're caused when the tectonic plates that the crust of the Earth is comprised of grind against each other in the middle of the ocean, and cause an earthquake. Secondly, hurricanes are caused by variations in the temperature of the atmosphere in various places. You can't just "change the temperature". Finally, there's no way that the government can magically cause the ocean levels to rise on two opposite sides of the planet, and fall on the other sides. It's just not possible.

I know that Tsunamis are no caused by either conditions, I put them together with the rest because it's part of the theory as well. Basically they say Tsunamis are provoked by nuclear underground explosions. As for the Hurricanes and storms that's basically what You said, they believe that they have some kind of weapons that pointed to the atmosphere can change pressures, temperatures, etc... and from there You can cause any kind of storm. As for the tides I believe that wouldn't be so  difficult to do it like You think, thou I think it's very unlikely, but You have to consider that all the seas and oceans are totally different even considering they are all connected they have their own properties and different densities, You can see it even in the rivers, different water don't mix, that's what happens in the Gulf of Alaska or in Cape Agulhas where the oceans meat and the indian ocean changes current, but like I said, I think is very unlikely that someone would have been controlling the tides in such synchronised way, for ages...

Heres's the link I've found about weather control:

- http://www.wanttoknow.info/war/haarp_weather_modification_electromagnetic_warfare_weapons

I'm sorry, but if you've ever taken a basic geology class you'd know quite well that tsunamis are caused by tectonic plates colliding. These tectonic plates can collide with force of fission weapons exploding, but it's dulled by the time the forces reach the surface.
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Re: Hmm, I wonder how tides work on a flat Earth? Do they? No.
« Reply #41 on: November 16, 2015, 01:30:48 PM »
By the way, TheEarthisFlatnotRound...

You forgot to mention atmospheric tides.

http://www.theflatearthsociety.org/forum/index.php?topic=30499.msg1707294#msg1707294

"It has been known now for two and a half centuries, that there are more or less daily variations in the height of the barometer, culminating in two maxima and two minima during the course of 24 hours. The same observation has been made and puzzled over at every station at which pressure records were kept and studied, but without success in finding for it the complete physical explanation."

BAROMETER PRESSURE PARADOX

One maximum is at 10 a.m., the other at 10 p.m.; the two minima are at 4 a.m. and 4 p.m.

The heating effect of the sun can explain neither the time when the maxima appear nor the time of the minima of these semidiurnal variations.

If the pressure becomes lower without the air becoming lighter through a lateral expansion due to heat, this must mean that the same mass of air gravitates with changing force at different hours.


Lord Rayleigh: ‘The relative magnitude of the latter [semidiurnal variations], as observed at most parts of the earth’s surface, is still a mystery, all the attempted explanations being illusory.’



Currently, the barometer pressure paradox CANNOT BE EXPLAINED AT ALL: all scientists have been at a complete loss to even the address the subject, a total defiance of attractive gravity.

IN SHORT

Scientists cannot explain atmospheric tides, so the earth is flat. Flat earth model also cannot explain, but the earth must be flat anyway!

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sandokhan

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Re: Hmm, I wonder how tides work on a flat Earth? Do they? No.
« Reply #42 on: November 16, 2015, 01:43:25 PM »
Or even better, let's assume that the man in raft "x" is 10 times stronger than the man in raft "y". We'll assume that "x" is the Earth and "y" is the moon. If they are both pulling at the same time, but "x" has a stronger pull, then "x" will pull "y" towards itself faster than "y" pulls "x" towards itself because the man in "x" is stronger.

There, I've destroyed your raft analogy in one fell swoop. What bullshit are you going to try and refute me with now?


You still don't get it.

You have only described HALF the forces involved.

That is, you are describing the PULL of y towards x, and of course, the pull of x towards y.

But, that is only half the story.



The Earth’s attractive gravitation balances the orbital centrifugal force of the Moon.
The Moon’s attractive gravitation balances the orbital centrifugal force of the Earth.

At first this may seem like an orderly and balanced attractive force system; however,... the following paradox exists. If the seat, source and cause of the "apparent" attraction forces are "internal" to each of the bodies...the attraction concept produces twice the force that is necessary to balance the centrifugal orbital forces of a planet moon system. The concept of "attraction" between bodies requires that the force “from” each separate body acts on the remote body,-- and equally on the originating body. Another example of a balanced system is a rope under tension; each end has an equal amount of opposing force. As noted by Newton's third law of motion, " To every action there is always an opposed  equal reaction".


This example may help visualize the double force issue.

Let there be two rafts ( x and y )  freely floating on a clear calm lake with a rope between them.
Both rafts are still and are a rope length apart. 
The man on (raft x) pulls on the rope which is attached to raft y.
Raft x will move toward raft y,… and raft y will move toward raft x.
Both rafts will receive equal and opposite force and motion. 
It is not possible for (raft x) to remain still and be the source of the force.  


Within the "attraction" concepts:

From Earth, the concept requires that Earth's gravity is attracting the Moon; and an equal Earth anchored “attraction” force is pulling the Earth toward the Moon.

From the Moon, the Moon's gravity is attracting the Earth; and this Moon seated force is equally pulling the Moon toward the Earth.
 

Using: 1 ) Newton’s equation as given above, 2 ) basic arithmetic, 3 ) common logic and 4 ) the mechanics of force, it is shown that the assumed Earth and Moon seated forces are equal; and as a result;…"all attraction models" produce twice the force that is required to balance the centrifugal forces of orbit!



Earth attracts the Moon, BUT ALSO an equal Earth anchored “attraction” force is pulling the Earth toward the Moon.

The Moon attract the Earth, BUT ALSO this Moon seated force is equally pulling the Moon toward the Earth.
 
There are FOUR FORCES INVOLVED HERE.

"All attraction models" produce twice the force that is required to balance the centrifugal forces of orbit!


That is why Newton dismissed the law of gravitational attraction as PURE GARBAGE.

This quote expresses his firm opinion opposing the concept that gravity (attraction) acted through empty space as an “inherent” property of matter.

Quote "...that one body may act upon another at a distance through a vacuum without the mediation of anything else, by and through which their action and force may be conveyed from one to another, is to me so great an absurdity that I believe no man, who has in philosophic matters a competent faculty of thinking, could ever fall into it." Unquote

Since Newton considered the attraction concept "so great an absurdity"; it seems reasonable to assume that he would not have spent time contemplating the detailed mechanics of an absurd attractive system. Therefore he may not have encountered or addressed the double force paradox. People do not normally study hypothesis that they believe are not correct, or hypothesis that they do not have an interest in.

It also appears certain that Newton would never have believed that for one hundred plus years our Twenty and Twenty First Century Natural Philosophy Societies, learned professors, authors and students would fall into believing, teaching and propagating the concept “that one body may act upon another at a distance through a vacuum without the mediation of anything else”."


Flat earth model also cannot explain, but the earth must be flat anyway!

But it can, in fact it is the only model that can explain the barometer pressure paradox.

It is the periodic waves of the telluric currents (discovered by Moray, and proven by Dayton Miller and Galaev) which produce the semidiurnal variations.

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TheEarthIsASphere.

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Re: Hmm, I wonder how tides work on a flat Earth? Do they? No.
« Reply #43 on: November 16, 2015, 01:51:51 PM »
Quote
That is why Newton dismissed the law of gravitational attraction as PURE GARBAGE.

You do realize he came up with the law of gravitational attraction? Are you retarded or something?
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sandokhan

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Re: Hmm, I wonder how tides work on a flat Earth? Do they? No.
« Reply #44 on: November 16, 2015, 01:56:51 PM »
For the public, Newton offered pure garbage: he knew very well that it does not work at all.

In private, however, Newton thought that terrestrial gravity is a force of PRESSURE:

Here is a letter from Newton to Halley, describing how he had independently arrived at the inverse square law using his aether hypothesis, to which he refers as the 'descending spirit':

....Now if this spirit descends from above with uniform velocity, its density and consequently its force will be reciprocally proportional to the square of its distance from the centre. But if it descended with accelerated motion, its density will everywhere diminish as much as the velocity increases, and so its force (according to the hypothesis) will be the same as before, that is still reciprocally as the square of its distance from the centre'


A clear description of PRESSURE GRAVITY.

Newton still thought that the planets and Sun were kept apart by 'some secret principle of unsociableness in the ethers of their vortices,' and that gravity was due to a circulating ether.

Isaac Newton speculated that gravity was caused by a flow of ether, or space, into celestial bodies. He discussed this theory in letters to Oldenburg, Halley, and Boyle.


For Newton, the concept of attractive gravity WAS PURE NONSENSE.

Please read again.

 "...that one body may act upon another at a distance through a vacuum without the mediation of anything else, by and through which their action and force may be conveyed from one to another, is to me so great an absurdity that I believe no man, who has in philosophic matters a competent faculty of thinking, could ever fall into it."



The force on a body is the resultant of gravity and the work done against it. V.S 5.1.13

In the absence of all other forces gravity exists. V.S 5.1.7

Action is opposed by an equivalent opposite reaction - V.S 5.1.16-18

Newton's laws of motion copied from the Naya Vaiseshika Sutra.
« Last Edit: November 16, 2015, 01:58:26 PM by sandokhan »

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TheEarthIsASphere.

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Re: Hmm, I wonder how tides work on a flat Earth? Do they? No.
« Reply #45 on: November 16, 2015, 02:23:15 PM »
Wait, sandokhan, are you denying that gravity exists, or that it works? Or both? They are two different things after all.
Quā ratiōne nōn redimus ad senectēs societātēs sapientium patrum? Quā ratiōne relinquimus eārum sapientiam?

Re: Hmm, I wonder how tides work on a flat Earth? Do they? No.
« Reply #46 on: November 16, 2015, 02:50:54 PM »
Flat earth model also cannot explain, but the earth must be flat anyway!

But it can, in fact it is the only model that can explain the barometer pressure paradox.

It is the periodic waves of the telluric currents (discovered by Moray, and proven by Dayton Miller and Galaev) which produce the semidiurnal variations.

The fact that the barometer pressure paradox is still called a paradox means that flat earth cannot explain it  ;D

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ronxyz

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Re: Hmm, I wonder how tides work on a flat Earth? Do they? No.
« Reply #47 on: November 16, 2015, 04:05:10 PM »
TheEarthIsNotFlatItIsRound- I am still waiting for your list of tides 'hundreds of feet tall". Talk is cheap lets see it.
If the Earth is a ball why don't we fall off the bottom?

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TheEarthIsASphere.

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Re: Hmm, I wonder how tides work on a flat Earth? Do they? No.
« Reply #48 on: November 16, 2015, 04:06:42 PM »
TheEarthIsNotFlatItIsRound- I am still waiting for your list of tides 'hundreds of feet tall". Talk is cheap lets see it.

Calling me out because I exaggerated a little, classic flat earther strategy, trying to derail the conversation.
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ronxyz

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Re: Hmm, I wonder how tides work on a flat Earth? Do they? No.
« Reply #49 on: November 16, 2015, 04:18:29 PM »
Those who fabricate facts about one thing are likely to do the same about more. What else are you saying that you know is not valid, everything or just enough to prove your point.
If the Earth is a ball why don't we fall off the bottom?

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oeN

  • 48
Re: Hmm, I wonder how tides work on a flat Earth? Do they? No.
« Reply #50 on: November 16, 2015, 06:05:22 PM »
Does this implies that You believe that Russians and Americans control the weather with weapons, and so they control tides, etc.?

God, no. You can't "control" the weather. It's an unpredictable machine with so many variables. In the case of the tides, you simply can't just make the ocean levels "rise" in certain places and "fall" in others. You'd need an external force, in this case, the gravity of the moon and sun, acting upon the bodies of water in order for them to rise and fall.

Yeesh.

I've heard this conspiracy theory before, that Russians and Americans have weapons that can control the weather and therefore the sea, etc... They even say that the Tsunamis, hurricanes are caused by them, that is experiments...

Okay, let's assume that somehow we can control the weather. First off, Tsunamis aren't caused by the weather, they're caused when the tectonic plates that the crust of the Earth is comprised of grind against each other in the middle of the ocean, and cause an earthquake. Secondly, hurricanes are caused by variations in the temperature of the atmosphere in various places. You can't just "change the temperature". Finally, there's no way that the government can magically cause the ocean levels to rise on two opposite sides of the planet, and fall on the other sides. It's just not possible.

I know that Tsunamis are no caused by either conditions, I put them together with the rest because it's part of the theory as well. Basically they say Tsunamis are provoked by nuclear underground explosions. As for the Hurricanes and storms that's basically what You said, they believe that they have some kind of weapons that pointed to the atmosphere can change pressures, temperatures, etc... and from there You can cause any kind of storm. As for the tides I believe that wouldn't be so  difficult to do it like You think, thou I think it's very unlikely, but You have to consider that all the seas and oceans are totally different even considering they are all connected they have their own properties and different densities, You can see it even in the rivers, different water don't mix, that's what happens in the Gulf of Alaska or in Cape Agulhas where the oceans meat and the indian ocean changes current, but like I said, I think is very unlikely that someone would have been controlling the tides in such synchronised way, for ages...

Heres's the link I've found about weather control:

- http://www.wanttoknow.info/war/haarp_weather_modification_electromagnetic_warfare_weapons

I'm sorry, but if you've ever taken a basic geology class you'd know quite well that tsunamis are caused by tectonic plates colliding. These tectonic plates can collide with force of fission weapons exploding, but it's dulled by the time the forces reach the surface.

Well I know my English is not very good, but I think is quite readable. So I'm sorry too if You've ever taken English classes, but the thing is, I'm not saying what can or can't provoke a Tsunami, I'll leave that to You as You seem to be the expert, I'm just stating what other people believe, If You would open the link that I provided in the post You would have noticed that is right in the first lines of the page written that Russians and Americans control the weather, and provoke Tsunamis and Earthquakes. I brought this into discussion, because if this would be possible, then I assume Tide control wouldn't be so difficult as that. I'm not saying that is true or it isn't.

Re: Hmm, I wonder how tides work on a flat Earth? Do they? No.
« Reply #51 on: December 09, 2015, 12:59:21 PM »

The Earth’s attractive gravitation balances the orbital centrifugal force of the Moon.
The Moon’s attractive gravitation balances the orbital centrifugal force of the Earth.


These two statements are not mutually exclusive they are the same.



Let there be two rafts ( x and y )  freely floating on a clear calm lake with a rope between them.
Both rafts are still and are a rope length apart. 
The man on (raft x) pulls on the rope which is attached to raft y.
Raft x will move toward raft y,… and raft y will move toward raft x.
Both rafts will receive equal and opposite force and motion. 
It is not possible for (raft x) to remain still and be the source of the force.  


The lake is not calm, X And Y are already in motion, in an orbit around their mutual center of gravity.




Within the "attraction" concepts:

From Earth, the concept requires that Earth's gravity is attracting the Moon; and an equal Earth anchored “attraction” force is pulling the Earth toward the Moon.

From the Moon, the Moon's gravity is attracting the Earth; and this Moon seated force is equally pulling the Moon toward the Earth.
 

Using: 1 ) Newton’s equation as given above, 2 ) basic arithmetic, 3 ) common logic and 4 ) the mechanics of force, it is shown that the assumed Earth and Moon seated forces are equal; and as a result;…"all attraction models" produce twice the force that is required to balance the centrifugal forces of orbit!


Once again you're doubling things that are not double, thy are not mutually exclusive but are the same thing.


Flat earth model also cannot explain, but the earth must be flat anyway!

But it can, in fact it is the only model that can explain the barometer pressure paradox.

daaaa jumping to conclusions, without facts, is not science!


The the universe has no obligation to makes sense to you.
The earth is a globe.

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sceptimatic

  • Flat Earth Scientist
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Re: Hmm, I wonder how tides work on a flat Earth? Do they? No.
« Reply #52 on: December 09, 2015, 02:48:18 PM »
The tides work due to expansion and contraction of the dome, creating pressure changes.
For an analogy, just think of a rubber dome covering a bowl half full of water.
You now have air and water under that dome. Now press down slightly on the dome, very slowly and you see a build up of water rising in the bowl.
Release that pressure slowly and you will see the water recede.

That's as simple as it happens. The only difference is the Earth's central energy source creates the expansion and contraction from within, as a self preservation cell.

Ignoring for a moment that nobody has ever seen this dome or observed effects we would expect to see if such a dome exists, how does it's contraction/expansion not cause the ground to crumple/expand beneath us? We would see catastrophic earthquakes as often as we see the tides come in.
The tides are determined by the movement of the reflective sun and moon which are merely both the same reflection from the central energy created on Earth and reflected off the dome.
The moon you see is the weaker reflection of the sun.

As this reflection is moving around the dome, the energy is gaining and dropping in the centre of Earth which causes the molecules in the atmosphere to contract or expand making the dome do likewise.

This is why the sun is higher and lower depending on the dome gaining or losing height and reflecting higher or lower energy back to us.

That's how your seasons work along with your tides.

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TheEarthIsASphere.

  • 867
  • who fucking cares what shape the earth is lol
Re: Hmm, I wonder how tides work on a flat Earth? Do they? No.
« Reply #53 on: December 09, 2015, 02:49:40 PM »
The tides work due to expansion and contraction of the dome, creating pressure changes.
For an analogy, just think of a rubber dome covering a bowl half full of water.
You now have air and water under that dome. Now press down slightly on the dome, very slowly and you see a build up of water rising in the bowl.
Release that pressure slowly and you will see the water recede.

That's as simple as it happens. The only difference is the Earth's central energy source creates the expansion and contraction from within, as a self preservation cell.

Ignoring for a moment that nobody has ever seen this dome or observed effects we would expect to see if such a dome exists, how does it's contraction/expansion not cause the ground to crumple/expand beneath us? We would see catastrophic earthquakes as often as we see the tides come in.
The tides are determined by the movement of the reflective sun and moon which are merely both the same reflection from the central energy created on Earth and reflected off the dome.
The moon you see is the weaker reflection of the sun.

As this reflection is moving around the dome, the energy is gaining and dropping in the centre of Earth which causes the molecules in the atmosphere to contract or expand making the dome do likewise.

This is why the sun is higher and lower depending on the dome gaining or losing height and reflecting higher or lower energy back to us.

That's how your seasons work along with your tides.

Oh, just wow...

I truly laughed out loud when I read this, that's how ridiculous it is.
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sceptimatic

  • Flat Earth Scientist
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Re: Hmm, I wonder how tides work on a flat Earth? Do they? No.
« Reply #54 on: December 09, 2015, 02:54:11 PM »
I can't blame you for laughing. I mean, I piss myself laughing when I realise that people still believe a spinning globe on a 23.5 degree axis with a large ball of rock rotating around that whilst both rotate around a huge ball of nuclear fusion is a vacuum and yet somehow I am asked to accept this by people in so called authority or be ridiculed.

I'd rather take the ridicule for thinking alternate to it than follow it, so you keep on laughing and I'll do likewise.  :P

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TheEarthIsASphere.

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Re: Hmm, I wonder how tides work on a flat Earth? Do they? No.
« Reply #55 on: December 09, 2015, 03:03:29 PM »
I can't blame you for laughing. I mean, I piss myself laughing when I realise that people still believe a spinning globe on a 23.5 degree axis with a large ball of rock rotating around that whilst both rotate around a huge ball of nuclear fusion is a vacuum and yet somehow I am asked to accept this by people in so called authority or be ridiculed.

I'd rather take the ridicule for thinking alternate to it than follow it, so you keep on laughing and I'll do likewise.  :P

Oh, so you mean the sane 99.9% of all people on the planet who choose to believe know a model with a pile of evidence as high as a mountain is correct?
Quā ratiōne nōn redimus ad senectēs societātēs sapientium patrum? Quā ratiōne relinquimus eārum sapientiam?

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sceptimatic

  • Flat Earth Scientist
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Re: Hmm, I wonder how tides work on a flat Earth? Do they? No.
« Reply #56 on: December 09, 2015, 03:20:29 PM »
I can't blame you for laughing. I mean, I piss myself laughing when I realise that people still believe a spinning globe on a 23.5 degree axis with a large ball of rock rotating around that whilst both rotate around a huge ball of nuclear fusion is a vacuum and yet somehow I am asked to accept this by people in so called authority or be ridiculed.

I'd rather take the ridicule for thinking alternate to it than follow it, so you keep on laughing and I'll do likewise.  :P

Oh, so you mean the sane 99.9% of all people on the planet who choose to believe know a model with a pile of evidence as high as a mountain is correct?
99.9%?
You're clutching at straws and I'll tell you something else. Most people have no real interest in the shape of this Earth. Maybe the .9% do out of your supposed 99.9%.
The rest are more interested in other things. Mainly material things or emotional things.

Your argument with % is akin to arguing that 99.9% of people knows what a tardis is. It's as real to them as a ball Earth is. They have seen both on TV and even models and pictures of them.
The calculations for the tardis can be thrown out to people and some will actually explain why they make sense.
It's no different to your ball Earth crap.

Same as people are told to rely on someone called Eratosthenes who managed to work out the size of the Earth and the axis by somehow knowing the sun was in position in two places 500 or so miles apart and was apparently scarily close to being accurate.

Where are his papers for this?.....lost?...word of mouth?...just accept what's told?

Yeah yeah I know. The sun moves around and we can calculate a day and we know that the Earth is this big and it's a ball on a tilted axis, because there's just tons of evidence, like one picture supposedly taken from space in the supposed Apollo era and yet regardless of the massive hike in technology and cameras/video and apparent space exploits galore, plus satellites and probes by the bucket full...we still rely on this one apparent photo that isn't stitched together, we are told.

Yeah, tons of evidence that is really just tons of speculation and pure effing lies.


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TheEarthIsASphere.

  • 867
  • who fucking cares what shape the earth is lol
Re: Hmm, I wonder how tides work on a flat Earth? Do they? No.
« Reply #57 on: December 09, 2015, 04:19:31 PM »
I can't blame you for laughing. I mean, I piss myself laughing when I realise that people still believe a spinning globe on a 23.5 degree axis with a large ball of rock rotating around that whilst both rotate around a huge ball of nuclear fusion is a vacuum and yet somehow I am asked to accept this by people in so called authority or be ridiculed.

I'd rather take the ridicule for thinking alternate to it than follow it, so you keep on laughing and I'll do likewise.  :P

Oh, so you mean the sane 99.9% of all people on the planet who choose to believe know a model with a pile of evidence as high as a mountain is correct?
99.9%?
You're clutching at straws and I'll tell you something else. Most people have no real interest in the shape of this Earth. Maybe the .9% do out of your supposed 99.9%.
The rest are more interested in other things. Mainly material things or emotional things.

Your argument with % is akin to arguing that 99.9% of people knows what a tardis is. It's as real to them as a ball Earth is. They have seen both on TV and even models and pictures of them.
The calculations for the tardis can be thrown out to people and some will actually explain why they make sense.
It's no different to your ball Earth crap.

Same as people are told to rely on someone called Eratosthenes who managed to work out the size of the Earth and the axis by somehow knowing the sun was in position in two places 500 or so miles apart and was apparently scarily close to being accurate.

Where are his papers for this?.....lost?...word of mouth?...just accept what's told?

Yeah yeah I know. The sun moves around and we can calculate a day and we know that the Earth is this big and it's a ball on a tilted axis, because there's just tons of evidence, like one picture supposedly taken from space in the supposed Apollo era and yet regardless of the massive hike in technology and cameras/video and apparent space exploits galore, plus satellites and probes by the bucket full...we still rely on this one apparent photo that isn't stitched together, we are told.

Yeah, tons of evidence that is really just tons of speculation and pure effing lies.



Quote
Yeah, tons of evidence that is really just tons of speculation and pure effing lies.
So like every proof for every flat Earth model ever?
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ronxyz

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Re: Hmm, I wonder how tides work on a flat Earth? Do they? No.
« Reply #58 on: December 09, 2015, 06:43:45 PM »
WHAT, this post again? Disproved Already
If the Earth is a ball why don't we fall off the bottom?

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TheEarthIsASphere.

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  • who fucking cares what shape the earth is lol
Re: Hmm, I wonder how tides work on a flat Earth? Do they? No.
« Reply #59 on: December 09, 2015, 06:59:40 PM »
WHAT, this post again? Disproved Already

Reported for derailment, and spam.
Quā ratiōne nōn redimus ad senectēs societātēs sapientium patrum? Quā ratiōne relinquimus eārum sapientiam?