DET - discussions

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Jadyyn

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DET - discussions
« on: October 27, 2015, 12:17:48 PM »
This thread is for discussing Dual Earth Theory (DET) concepts. You need to get the information from JRoweSkeptic directly. If you haven't, don't bother putting your 2 cents in...

Here is the DE Fantasy described (https://forum.tfes.org/index.php?topic=3040.0)
« Last Edit: November 12, 2015, 12:59:49 PM by Jadyyn »
“If you can't dazzle them with brilliance, baffle them with bullshit.” W.C. Fields.
"The amount of energy necessary to refute bullshit is an order of magnitude bigger than to produce it."
"What can be asserted without evidence can be dismissed without evidence."

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Jadyyn

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Re: DET - discussions
« Reply #1 on: October 27, 2015, 12:22:12 PM »
3 things to note:
  • I am not sure where the Moon actually is in your model. Also, the Moon rotation period equals its revolution period (28 days). It always has the same face toward earth. The only thing that changes is the phase shadow. (http://theswordbearer.org/images/8_MoonPhasesw.jpg) We never see the back side (other than an extra 9% due to Lunar Libration - http://en.es-static.us/upl/2014/06/Moon-libration-latitude-Tycho-1024x381-e1402568891442.jpg). Not sure how your model explains Lunar Libration. See my "Disk Moon" thread to see the half dozen lunar effects your model will need to explain.
  • You still need to explain how equatorially mounted telescopes are aligned that match the latitude the astronomer is at.
  • Aether - you say that between the planes it is so thin a person can be split by it. You also say it goes from heavy concentration to lower. Per the picture, the higher concentration is going basically from say the N. Pole (high concentration) to the Sun (in extremely low concentration zone between plates - that is OK). So how does it get out from the low concentration zone between the plates to the outside in ever increasing concentration (i.e. climb up the "dome")?

    If the model was spinning, I could see the centripetal force pushing the Aether out to the equator edge and creating a circulation. On a stationary model, how does this happen?
“If you can't dazzle them with brilliance, baffle them with bullshit.” W.C. Fields.
"The amount of energy necessary to refute bullshit is an order of magnitude bigger than to produce it."
"What can be asserted without evidence can be dismissed without evidence."

*

JRoweSkeptic

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Re: DET - discussions
« Reply #2 on: October 27, 2015, 12:43:55 PM »
I am not sure where the Moon actually is in your model. Also, the Moon rotation period equals its revolution period (28 days). It always has the same face toward earth. The only thing that changes is the phase shadow. (http://theswordbearer.org/images/8_MoonPhasesw.jpg) We never see the back side (other than an extra 9% due to Lunar Libration - http://en.es-static.us/upl/2014/06/Moon-libration-latitude-Tycho-1024x381-e1402568891442.jpg). Not sure how your model explains Lunar Libration. See my "Disk Moon" thread to see the half dozen lunar effects your model will need to explain.
Near the Sun.
The common face is an optical illusion. if you observe the rotation of a textured object, things on the far side will appear to be closer, and the image will become more complete as it rotates.
Most of those effects are trivial. Libration clearly is: it's just motion. Slightly different angle, slightly more seen.

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You still need to explain how equatorially mounted telescopes are aligned that match the latitude the astronomer is at.
Discussed in the relevant thread, why are you bringing it up here? Your argument is incoherent.

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Aether - you say that between the planes it is so thin a person can be split by it.
What?!

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You also say it goes from heavy concentration to lower. Per the picture, the higher concentration is going basically from say the N. Pole (high concentration) to the Sun (in extremely low concentration zone between plates - that is OK). So how does it get out from the low concentration zone between the plates to the outside in ever increasing concentration (i.e. climb up the "dome")?
It's a cycle. Aether is not a force: there's no friction it can exert on itself, or have exerted on it. Centripetal force would be inexplicable. It can move endlessly, because there is nothing that would slow its motion,  from how it is defined.
As soon as the aether moves, a lower concentration is left in its wake: which would be filled by the nearby higher concentration: and so on, and so forth. It cycles, because as soon as a high concentration shifts, it necessarily leaves behind a lower concentration.
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Jadyyn

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Re: DET - discussions
« Reply #3 on: October 27, 2015, 02:46:36 PM »
I really don't think you get astronomy at all... Since 99%+ of people don't do astronomy, its subtleties create major holes in any model.
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The common face is an optical illusion. if you observe the rotation of a textured object, things on the far side will appear to be closer, and the image will become more complete as it rotates.
Most of those effects are trivial. Libration clearly is: it's just motion. Slightly different angle, slightly more seen.
There is no illusion about the common face:
Same face. No illusion. They are the same except one is in shadow. There is no far side. The image does not become complete as it rotates because the moon does not rotate like that. It rotates once every 28 days and revolves once every 28 days. This causes the same side/face to face the Earth ALL the time. We never see the back side of the Moon (unless a satellite or someone goes back there). If possible, can you show the back side of the Moon? LOTS of astronomers would love to see it from the Earth.

Lunar Libration might be slight but needs to be accounted for. This depends on whether you are looking at the Moon from the N. hemisphere or S. hemisphere and where the Moon is in orbit (it has a 5 deg inclination to the Earth's equator).

Simply put, the "dome" concept of the UFET or the Aether causing it in the DET causes MAJOR problems with astronomy and what we observe. That is why we need to know EXACTLY how the Sun and Moon interact to produce round phase shadows (with corresponding shadows in lunar craters).

How does the DET Moon have Lunar Eclipses during specific times of the year. The Earth blocks the light from the Sun causing the eclipse on the Moon. The Moon turns RED during a FULL Moon, and a large curved shadow crosses it and corresponds EXACTLY where a heliocentric model puts the Earth between the Sun and the Moon. Does the Earth come between the Sun and Moon in the DET? How does the DET account for Lunar Eclipses?
“If you can't dazzle them with brilliance, baffle them with bullshit.” W.C. Fields.
"The amount of energy necessary to refute bullshit is an order of magnitude bigger than to produce it."
"What can be asserted without evidence can be dismissed without evidence."

*

JRoweSkeptic

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Re: DET - discussions
« Reply #4 on: October 27, 2015, 03:50:01 PM »
Same face. No illusion. They are the same except one is in shadow. There is no far side. The image does not become complete as it rotates because the moon does not rotate like that. It rotates once every 28 days and revolves once every 28 days. This causes the same side/face to face the Earth ALL the time. We never see the back side of the Moon (unless a satellite or someone goes back there). If possible, can you show the back side of the Moon? LOTS of astronomers would love to see it from the Earth.
I explained the observations.
The back side of the moon is unlit: we require light to be able to see something.

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Lunar Libration might be slight but needs to be accounted for. This depends on whether you are looking at the Moon from the N. hemisphere or S. hemisphere and where the Moon is in orbit (it has a 5 deg inclination to the Earth's equator).
It is accounted for: I explained it. Angle. If you're at a different point on the Earth's surface, you'll see a different angle.

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Simply put, the "dome" concept of the UFET or the Aether causing it in the DET causes MAJOR problems with astronomy and what we observe. That is why we need to know EXACTLY how the Sun and Moon interact to produce round phase shadows (with corresponding shadows in lunar craters).
They don't.

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How does the DET Moon have Lunar Eclipses during specific times of the year. The Earth blocks the light from the Sun causing the eclipse on the Moon. The Moon turns RED during a FULL Moon, and a large curved shadow crosses it and corresponds EXACTLY where a heliocentric model puts the Earth between the Sun and the Moon. Does the Earth come between the Sun and Moon in the DET? How does the DET account for Lunar Eclipses?
Let me stop you there: it doesn't correspond to the heliocentric model, the heliocentric model corresponds to it. Lunar eclipses came first: the model was then designed so that their explanation would be possible.
If you had any understanding of the DET model, you would realize how ridiculous your "Does the Earth come between the Sun and moon?" question is. I have put effort into developing this model, please do me the courtesy of putting the effort in to read what I have said and actually understand the model.
The RE answer suffices, however: the moon is red because its light travels through an increased amount of the Earth's air: the same principle governing sunsets. The moon's light shines in the direction of where the Sun is, with respect to it: the distance said light goes is subsequently farther.
While we're on the topic, solar eclipses do share an explanation with RET: the moon passes in front of the Sun, lit-side facing it, so we're left with darkness.

Also:
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Aether - you say that between the planes it is so thin a person can be split by it.
Please can you explain what it is you mean by this? You seem to have a misunderstanding of part of the model. If you're to understand DET you need, at the very least, an understanding of aether: it's an important definition.
« Last Edit: October 27, 2015, 03:54:20 PM by JRoweSkeptic »
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sokarul

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Re: DET - discussions
« Reply #5 on: October 27, 2015, 06:01:09 PM »
Did you teleport anywhere yet?
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Jadyyn

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Re: DET - discussions
« Reply #6 on: October 28, 2015, 05:32:19 AM »
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Quote from: Jadyyn on October 27, 2015, 02:46:36 PM
Same face. No illusion. They are the same except one is in shadow. There is no far side. The image does not become complete as it rotates because the moon does not rotate like that. It rotates once every 28 days and revolves once every 28 days. This causes the same side/face to face the Earth ALL the time. We never see the back side of the Moon (unless a satellite or someone goes back there). If possible, can you show the back side of the Moon? LOTS of astronomers would love to see it from the Earth.
I explained the observations.
The back side of the moon is unlit: we require light to be able to see something.
You seem to be struggling with the same problem my high school physics teacher had. You seem to think that the reason we can't see the back side of the Moon is because it is in the shadow part of a phase (unlit). This is not true. We can not see it because it is ALWAYS facing away from the Earth.

As my 2 pictures demonstrate, both show EXACTLY the same Moon features - bring them up side by side. The first on a FULL Moon. The second in the phase shadow as lit by Earthshine. You do not see the back side of the Moon - and you never will.
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Lunar Libration might be slight but needs to be accounted for. This depends on whether you are looking at the Moon from the N. hemisphere or S. hemisphere and where the Moon is in orbit (it has a 5 deg inclination to the Earth's equator).
It is accounted for: I explained it. Angle. If you're at a different point on the Earth's surface, you'll see a different angle.
Obviously too difficult a concept.
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Quote
Simply put, the "dome" concept of the UFET or the Aether causing it in the DET causes MAJOR problems with astronomy and what we observe. That is why we need to know EXACTLY how the Sun and Moon interact to produce round phase shadows (with corresponding shadows in lunar craters).
They don't.
Obviously they do. In RET, the spherical Sun, Earth and Moon naturally cause the shapes and phases of the Moon. This needs to be described in detail in the DET. Hell, I don't even know exactly where the Moon is in it. "Near the Sun." - what does that mean? How does it move? Does it move? Does it rotate? How are the phases and shadows created?
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How does the DET Moon have Lunar Eclipses during specific times of the year. The Earth blocks the light from the Sun causing the eclipse on the Moon. The Moon turns RED during a FULL Moon, and a large curved shadow crosses it and corresponds EXACTLY where a heliocentric model puts the Earth between the Sun and the Moon. Does the Earth come between the Sun and Moon in the DET? How does the DET account for Lunar Eclipses?
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Let me stop you there: it doesn't correspond to the heliocentric model, the heliocentric model corresponds to it. Lunar eclipses came first: the model was then designed so that their explanation would be possible.
If you had any understanding of the DET model, you would realize how ridiculous your "Does the Earth come between the Sun and moon?" question is. I have put effort into developing this model, please do me the courtesy of putting the effort in to read what I have said and actually understand the model.
The RE answer suffices, however: the moon is red because its light travels through an increased amount of the Earth's air: the same principle governing sunsets. The moon's light shines in the direction of where the Sun is, with respect to it: the distance said light goes is subsequently farther.
While we're on the topic, solar eclipses do share an explanation with RET: the moon passes in front of the Sun, lit-side facing it, so we're left with darkness.
"the heliocentric model corresponds to it. Lunar eclipses came first: the model was then designed so that their explanation would be possible." - Exactly - it explains how Lunar Eclipses happen. The DET didn't come first either - but needs to explain them as well.

"If you had any understanding of the DET model, you would realize how ridiculous your "Does the Earth come between the Sun and moon?" question is. I have put effort into developing this model, please do me the courtesy of putting the effort in to read what I have said and actually understand the model."
 I have read it. Considering it does not describe where the Moon is, why are you jumping all over me - like I predicted. "Near the Sun" means nothing. Is it above the Earth so the Earth is in-between? Between the hemidisks? How far from the Sun? Like you say, in a solar eclipse, passes in front of the Sun.

What is a Full Moon? Is the lit face facing away from the Sun? if so, why does the Moon, high in the sky (not the same as a sunset) begin as a bright Full Moon, "suddenly" turn red for a few hours then back to a bright Full Moon again? This happens with a big curved shadow (round Earth sized) - bigger than phase shadows - and over a few hours crosses the Moon.
« Last Edit: October 28, 2015, 05:36:20 AM by Jadyyn »
“If you can't dazzle them with brilliance, baffle them with bullshit.” W.C. Fields.
"The amount of energy necessary to refute bullshit is an order of magnitude bigger than to produce it."
"What can be asserted without evidence can be dismissed without evidence."

?

Jadyyn

  • 1533
Re: DET - discussions
« Reply #7 on: October 28, 2015, 05:54:29 AM »
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Aether - you say that between the planes it is so thin a person can be split by it.
Please can you explain what it is you mean by this? You seem to have a misunderstanding of part of the model. If you're to understand DET you need, at the very least, an understanding of aether: it's an important definition.
"Due to the low concentration of aether inside the earth" so "functionally, distance ceases to exist at this point."
Low concentration = "thin" as in "air is too thin to breath" / high concentration = "thick" as in "air is too thick to breath"? (I am not saying Aether is air. I am using "thin" and "thick" in sentences to show what I understand low/high concentration to mean - i.e. density).

So... "You can stand half on one side, half on the other, and you can happily see both sides"
Split?
“If you can't dazzle them with brilliance, baffle them with bullshit.” W.C. Fields.
"The amount of energy necessary to refute bullshit is an order of magnitude bigger than to produce it."
"What can be asserted without evidence can be dismissed without evidence."

*

JRoweSkeptic

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Re: DET - discussions
« Reply #8 on: October 28, 2015, 06:29:14 AM »
Did you teleport anywhere yet?

Given DET does not and has never suggested anything remotely of the sort, I think it is a fair conclusion you are not welcome in this thread.
http://fet.wikia.com
dualearththeory.proboards.com/
On the sister site if you want to talk.

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JRoweSkeptic

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Re: DET - discussions
« Reply #9 on: October 28, 2015, 06:38:48 AM »
You seem to be struggling with the same problem my high school physics teacher had. You seem to think that the reason we can't see the back side of the Moon is because it is in the shadow part of a phase (unlit). This is not true. We can not see it because it is ALWAYS facing away from the Earth.
We are not in RET. I don't care about the RE model. I have given you the DET answers, which are all that is relevant. Your earthshine image is visibly false.

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Obviously too difficult a concept.
The idea that you can see more or less of a lit object depending on your relative position and so angle? If you don't understand that...

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Obviously they do. In RET, the spherical Sun, Earth and Moon naturally cause the shapes and phases of the Moon. This needs to be described in detail in the DET. Hell, I don't even know exactly where the Moon is in it. "Near the Sun." - what does that mean? How does it move? Does it move? Does it rotate? How are the phases and shadows created?
We are not in RET. Why do you constantly assume the RE model has to provide an accurate picture of what happens in teh FE model? You've been doing this on several threads.
All of your questions are answered by the basic DE outline you were given and claimed you'd read.

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I have read it. Considering it does not describe where the Moon is, why are you jumping all over me - like I predicted. "Near the Sun" means nothing. Is it above the Earth so the Earth is in-between? Between the hemidisks? How far from the Sun? Like you say, in a solar eclipse, passes in front of the Sun.
Look at the question you asked me about the moon's location earlier. Now look at the answer. Simple explanation: it is near the Sun. I don't know the exact distance, it's not exactly easy to gauge.

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What is a Full Moon? Is the lit face facing away from the Sun? if so, why does the Moon, high in the sky (not the same as a sunset) begin as a bright Full Moon, "suddenly" turn red for a few hours then back to a bright Full Moon again? This happens with a big curved shadow (round Earth sized) - bigger than phase shadows - and over a few hours crosses the Moon.
It's the moon's movement. The lit face faces approximately away, and then rotates into the longer distance. It's hard to put into words, but I hope you see what I mean: the curve just comes from the shape of the moon.

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Aether - you say that between the planes it is so thin a person can be split by it.
Please can you explain what it is you mean by this? You seem to have a misunderstanding of part of the model. If you're to understand DET you need, at the very least, an understanding of aether: it's an important definition.
"Due to the low concentration of aether inside the earth" so "functionally, distance ceases to exist at this point."
Low concentration = "thin" as in "air is too thin to breath" / high concentration = "thick" as in "air is too thick to breath"? (I am not saying Aether is air. I am using "thin" and "thick" in sentences to show what I understand low/high concentration to mean - i.e. density).

So... "You can stand half on one side, half on the other, and you can happily see both sides"
Split?
Ah, I see what you mean: but that's a major misunderstanding. Don't think of what happens at the equator as anything special, there's no splitting of any kind. You're one constant object, existing through space. You move and exist at the equator the exact same way you do anywhere.
Imagine that space is an elastic band, and you're a drawing on said band. From your perspective, nothing ever changes: all your means of sensing will be altered as space does. However, if the band is stretched, the one constant thing that is you covers a greater expanse ('greater' from an external perspective).
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Jadyyn

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Re: DET - discussions
« Reply #10 on: October 28, 2015, 08:32:27 AM »
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You seem to be struggling with the same problem my high school physics teacher had. You seem to think that the reason we can't see the back side of the Moon is because it is in the shadow part of a phase (unlit). This is not true. We can not see it because it is ALWAYS facing away from the Earth.
We are not in RET. I don't care about the RE model. I have given you the DET answers, which are all that is relevant. Your earthshine image is visibly false.
"We are not in RET." you keep repeating this as if it makes all your problems and objections go away. It doesn't. We NEVER see the back side of the Moon - not because it is in shadow, but because it is ALWAYS on the "far side". The Moon ALWAYS has the same face towards the Earth - however you choose to describe it in DET terms/language. RET/DET - the same affect. Like I said, if DET shows us the far side of the Moon, ALL astronomers would be very interested. As no astronomer has seen it, your explanation using DET is wrong.

"I have given you the DET answers, which are all that is relevant." - all you have shown is that you don't understand astronomy at all. Therefore, none of your answers are relevant.

"Your earthshine image is visibly false." - laugh. Google "Earthshine images". In fact, without a telescope, there are times when you can just view the Moon and see into the dark phase (it is really cool when that happens). Just because you don't understand astronomy doesn't make images false. There are hundreds of them. If you actually had a telescope, you could actually see the moon in the phase shadow. I have. You REALLY don't know what you are talking about when it comes to astronomy - no clue. You must be under the false impression that the dark phase shadow is so dark (i.e. pitch black) that we can't see into it. That is totally, completely 100% wrong.
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Obviously they do. In RET, the spherical Sun, Earth and Moon naturally cause the shapes and phases of the Moon. This needs to be described in detail in the DET. Hell, I don't even know exactly where the Moon is in it. "Near the Sun." - what does that mean? How does it move? Does it move? Does it rotate? How are the phases and shadows created?
We are not in RET. Why do you constantly assume the RE model has to provide an accurate picture of what happens in teh FE model? You've been doing this on several threads.
All of your questions are answered by the basic DE outline you were given and claimed you'd read.
"We are not in RET. Why do you constantly assume the RE model has to provide an accurate picture of what happens in the FE model?" because there is a RE model and I use it to demonstrate what is happening and it explains what we see elegantly. Your FE model does not have a moon in it anywhere, just "it is near the sun". It does not rotate to produce phases as you describe - hence my questions.

"All of your questions are answered by the basic DE outline you were given and claimed you'd read." It doesn't even say where the Moon is in the outline. There are 7 places the moon is mentioned. It says "The phases of the moon are caused by the moon’s rotation, dull non-lit sides rotating into view." This is totally false. The Moon always has the same face towards the Earth. It NEVER has the back side toward the Earth. JUST LOOK "OBSERVATIONALLY" AT ALL THE THOUSANDS OF PICTURES OF THE MOON. Your explanation is therefore totally, 100% meaningless.

Your lack of astronomical knowledge is staggering especially because you are trying to create a model that explains what we see on Earth and in the heavens. If you took the time to LOOK through a telescope, you would be "educated" beyond belief - and probably throw away your DET.
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I have read it. Considering it does not describe where the Moon is, why are you jumping all over me - like I predicted. "Near the Sun" means nothing. Is it above the Earth so the Earth is in-between? Between the hemidisks? How far from the Sun? Like you say, in a solar eclipse, passes in front of the Sun.
Quote
Look at the question you asked me about the moon's location earlier. Now look at the answer. Simple explanation: it is near the Sun. I don't know the exact distance, it's not exactly easy to gauge.
Unless we know where the Moon is, how can anyone, including you, know what it looks like? If it is near the Sun, how do we see the Full Moon without seeing the Sun? Why does the Full Moon appear on the opposite side of the Earth from the Sun? What causes its apparent motion around the Earth - different from the Sun?
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What is a Full Moon? Is the lit face facing away from the Sun? if so, why does the Moon, high in the sky (not the same as a sunset) begin as a bright Full Moon, "suddenly" turn red for a few hours then back to a bright Full Moon again? This happens with a big curved shadow (round Earth sized) - bigger than phase shadows - and over a few hours crosses the Moon.
Quote
It's the moon's movement. The lit face faces approximately away, and then rotates into the longer distance. It's hard to put into words, but I hope you see what I mean: the curve just comes from the shape of the moon.
How does the lit face rotate away and back over the course of couple hours? The phases on a spherical Moon have to do with its shape. The shape of the Lunar Eclipse is much bigger.(https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/5/59/Write_adam_-_Total_Lunar_Eclipse,_December_21_2010_(by).jpg)
“If you can't dazzle them with brilliance, baffle them with bullshit.” W.C. Fields.
"The amount of energy necessary to refute bullshit is an order of magnitude bigger than to produce it."
"What can be asserted without evidence can be dismissed without evidence."

*

JRoweSkeptic

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Re: DET - discussions
« Reply #11 on: October 28, 2015, 09:24:04 AM »
"We are not in RET." you keep repeating this as if it makes all your problems and objections go away. It doesn't. We NEVER see the back side of the Moon - not because it is in shadow, but because it is ALWAYS on the "far side". The Moon ALWAYS has the same face towards the Earth - however you choose to describe it in DET terms/language. RET/DET - the same affect. Like I said, if DET shows us the far side of the Moon, ALL astronomers would be very interested. As no astronomer has seen it, your explanation using DET is wrong.
This is your claim. It is not true. We can see a silhuette, that is all, in non-manipulated earthshine images: I've seen the effect before, those details do not exist. Simply because you claim the same face always faces us does not mean it is true. Look beyond the RE model: don't presume it's always accurate.

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"All of your questions are answered by the basic DE outline you were given and claimed you'd read." It doesn't even say where the Moon is in the outline.
Which is why I answered. you asked if it was above/below the Earth or near the Sun: I answered.

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Unless we know where the Moon is, how can anyone, including you, know what it looks like? If it is near the Sun, how do we see the Full Moon without seeing the Sun? Why does the Full Moon appear on the opposite side of the Earth from the Sun? What causes its apparent motion around the Earth - different from the Sun?
Why are you assuming a RE? None of that makes sense.


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How does the lit face rotate away and back over the course of couple hours? The phases on a spherical Moon have to do with its shape. The shape of the Lunar Eclipse is much bigger.
Why wouldn't it? A lunar eclipse is atypical behavior: it has to be in just the right relative place. Don't forget, it is rotating on its axis, as well as moving, normally.
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sokarul

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Re: DET - discussions
« Reply #12 on: October 28, 2015, 10:08:54 AM »
Did you teleport anywhere yet?

Given DET does not and has never suggested anything remotely of the sort, I think it is a fair conclusion you are not welcome in this thread.
You claimed that as objects approached the equator the lower ether concentration made objects teleport to the other side.  Did you forget everything you made up when you were in the looney bin?
ANNIHILATOR OF  SHIFTER

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JRoweSkeptic

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Re: DET - discussions
« Reply #13 on: October 28, 2015, 11:13:26 AM »
Did you teleport anywhere yet?

Given DET does not and has never suggested anything remotely of the sort, I think it is a fair conclusion you are not welcome in this thread.
You claimed that as objects approached the equator the lower ether concentration made objects teleport to the other side.  Did you forget everything you made up when you were in the looney bin?

  • Mental hospital
  • No, you claimed that. Nothing special happens at the equator.
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Jadyyn

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Re: DET - discussions
« Reply #14 on: October 28, 2015, 11:22:07 AM »
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We are not in RET." you keep repeating this as if it makes all your problems and objections go away. It doesn't. We NEVER see the back side of the Moon - not because it is in shadow, but because it is ALWAYS on the "far side". The Moon ALWAYS has the same face towards the Earth - however you choose to describe it in DET terms/language. RET/DET - the same affect. Like I said, if DET shows us the far side of the Moon, ALL astronomers would be very interested. As no astronomer has seen it, your explanation using DET is wrong.
This is your claim. It is not true. We can see a silhuette, that is all, in non-manipulated earthshine images: I've seen the effect before, those details do not exist. Simply because you claim the same face always faces us does not mean it is true. Look beyond the RE model: don't presume it's always accurate.
What silhouette?

"When an entirely metal face is pointed at the earth, this is a full moon: a rock face provides a new moon." During a FULL Moon:
  • This would mean the metal face (1/2 the sphere) is the lit face pointing at the Earth.
  • This would mean the rock face (other 1/2 of the sphere) is the dark face (i.e. back of the Moon) or where does the rocky face go during a FULL Moon?
(http://solar-center.stanford.edu/activities/MoonPhases/CompleteMoonPhases.jpg)

When you compare ANY picture of the FULL Moon (row 3, #1) with the right half (row 4, #2) and left half (row 1, #6), they are the same. This demonstrates the Moon is NOT rotating.
  • On the top half of the picture (rows 1 & 2), all the left sides of the lit Moon are the same. The only thing changing is the phase shadow on the right side. Is it becoming rock?
  • Same for the bottom half of the pictures (rows 3 & 4). All the right sides of the lit Moon are the same. Is the left side becoming rock?
  • THE MOON IS NOT ROTATING. LOOK AT THE PICTURES. Honestly...
Like I said, your knowledge of astronomy is appalling. GET A TELESCOPE and then we can discuss astronomy and your DET intelligently.
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All of your questions are answered by the basic DE outline you were given and claimed you'd read." It doesn't even say where the Moon is in the outline.
Which is why I answered. you asked if it was above/below the Earth or near the Sun: I answered.
Hand-waving again. From being "near the Sun", I can not tell how the phases are formed. It is a non-answer. Possibly correct but useless.
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Unless we know where the Moon is, how can anyone, including you, know what it looks like? If it is near the Sun, how do we see the Full Moon without seeing the Sun? Why does the Full Moon appear on the opposite side of the Earth from the Sun? What causes its apparent motion around the Earth - different from the Sun?
Why are you assuming a RE? None of that makes sense.
I am NOT assuming RE - you just randomly throwing in that comment. It is about what we observe (Full moon rising in the East and Sun setting in the West - the DE doesn't do that? only RE?)(The Sun and Moon do not move across the sky together - the Moon is sometimes near the Sun and other times far away - the DE doesn't do that? only RE?). If this doesn't make sense it is because you don't understand astronomy.

YOU said the Moon is "near the Sun". YOU said "When an entirely metal face is pointed at the earth, this is a full moon".
So, how does a FULL Moon appear on the horizon in the east when the Sun is setting in the west?
If the FULL Moon is "near the Sun", why isn't it anywhere around the Sun but ALWAYS far away from the Sun when we see it in the sky?
Have you ever seen the Sun and FULL Moon in the sky? Why does "None of that make sense"?
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How does the lit face rotate away and back over the course of couple hours? The phases on a spherical Moon have to do with its shape. The shape of the Lunar Eclipse is much bigger.
Why wouldn't it? A lunar eclipse is atypical behavior: it has to be in just the right relative place. Don't forget, it is rotating on its axis, as well as moving, normally.
"Why wouldn't it?" - this actually doesn't make sense at all. Even if we assume the Moon rotates as you say (it doesn't), how can it rotate so the Full Moon is visible and rotate(?) so the Lunar Eclipse shadow crosses it as well - during a FULL moon (no rocky side) with the FULL Moon still visible - it doesn't change, just the shadow moves - see the red pictures. This make no sense at all.(https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/5/59/Write_adam_-_Total_Lunar_Eclipse,_December_21_2010_(by).jpg)

"A lunar eclipse is atypical behavior: it has to be in just the right relative place." it is quite typical and predictable.

"Don't forget, it is rotating on its axis, as well as moving, normally." what do you mean by "moving, normally"? Where in your DET explanation do you mention the Moon moving?
“If you can't dazzle them with brilliance, baffle them with bullshit.” W.C. Fields.
"The amount of energy necessary to refute bullshit is an order of magnitude bigger than to produce it."
"What can be asserted without evidence can be dismissed without evidence."

*

sokarul

  • 19303
  • Extra Racist
Re: DET - discussions
« Reply #15 on: October 28, 2015, 03:13:35 PM »
Just one of many.


i would suggest you try to actually read the theory.
aether is the substance of which space is composed. when space is thinner, you are transported instantly over a distance. light speed is irrelevant, as the variable that changes is distance, not time, not speed.
ANNIHILATOR OF  SHIFTER

It's no slur if it's fact.

?

Jadyyn

  • 1533
Re: DET - discussions
« Reply #16 on: October 29, 2015, 06:56:54 AM »
OK, I have reviewed DET somewhat. I don't want to spend a bunch of time on something that is blatantly wrong. What I have found is this - correct me if I am wrong:
  • You don't know how thick the hemidisks are.
  • You don't know how far apart they are.
  • You don't know how big the Sun in-between them is.
  • You don't know how exactly whirlpools cause night/day cycles - just that they do.
  • You don't know how the Sun needs to move to cause seasons - especially 24 night/day cycles around polar regions.
  • You don't know where the Moon is other than "near the Sun".
  • You don't know how big the Moon is.
  • You don't know how the phases of the Moon are created (it does not rotate like you say)
  • You don't know how Lunar Eclipses are created (even your explanation, a rotating Moon causes a FULL Moon. During the FULL Moon it rotates(?) to create the Lunar Eclipse that lasts for hours - without changing the FULL Moon before, during and after. Does not make any sense)
  • You don't know how the Aether shows these effects on the planet - it simply does because of low/high concentrations of it (density)
  • There are billions of stars that are kept in position by whirlpools. What about nebulas and the galaxies we see that do not deform at all? These have definite shapes that cover HUGE parts of the sky (look at the Orion Nebula). These heavenly objects remain EXACTLY stationary for centuries with moving Aether/whirlpools?
  • You can't even produce 2D maps from the FLAT 2D hemidisks. Somehow this is too difficult?? (it also prevents anyone from measuring distances). Totally ridiculous. "I have 2 FLAT disks and I can't tell you what's on them to put it on a piece of paper"? It may take a long time to figure out? Silly BS. If you are having a hard time with this, it probably is because the Earth isn't flat. UFET couldn't do it, why would DET with 2 disks?
  • As I said, astronomy will make or break any theory. Clearly from your posts, your knowledge of astronomy is superficial at best. You should not be creating FE theories without even basic knowledge of it.
  • I believe you are simply hoping some FEer can correct/adjust/explain your DET components so it makes sense. I don't see many takers. When people did try to modify your theory, you got really upset. As you are the only person that probably even vaguely understands this Aether, I doubt you will get much help anyways.
Honestly, the DET is a half-baked theory with hand-waving to answer any problems. Nothing in it can actually be measured (making it hard to prove/disprove). The Aether and its greater than superhero abilities are hard to imagine or measure. So, with this vague hand-waving theory, you hope people will buy into a FE? No sane logical intelligent person would do this - only shills.

On the other hand, shapes HAVE properties. A sphere and a disk (or two) are not the same. Even that is enough to prove/disprove theories.
  • In the UFET flat disk, you can not see the South Celestial Pole. This directly disproves the theory. The following argument also applies.
  • In my "Amateur Astronomy - Equatorial Alignment" thread, I point out you can not align a telescope with an equatorial mount on the 2 disks of the DET. The alignment needs to be parallel to the axis of the model (90°) and at the same time, as independently measured by a protractor, at the angle of the wedge pointing at the North Celestial Pole and South Celestial Pole (xx°). This is NOT POSSIBLE on ANY FE model.
As I point out, the flaw is CAUSED by ANY model being FLAT. Therefore, ANY FE model, regardless of how many disks it has, will not work.
“If you can't dazzle them with brilliance, baffle them with bullshit.” W.C. Fields.
"The amount of energy necessary to refute bullshit is an order of magnitude bigger than to produce it."
"What can be asserted without evidence can be dismissed without evidence."

?

Jadyyn

  • 1533
Re: DET - discussions
« Reply #17 on: October 29, 2015, 08:16:45 AM »
After considering DET some more, here is what I believe is really going on (a summary of my previous post):
  • JRoweSkeptic will NEVER provide any accurate measurements of DET. Most of DET is based on the mythical Aether. This has not been proven to even exist (other than in JR's mind) and therefore has no measurements. As almost everything in DET is based on it, nothing can be measured.
  • The only REAL thing in DET are the 2 FLAT hemidisks. JR does not want to present a map (claiming it is too difficult to map a 2D disk onto a 2D piece of paper). ANY flat projection would not measure correctly with REAL distances if the Earth is really a sphere. This would allow people to refute the model. So, no map.
  • JR thought he was "safe". Providing no measurable/verifiable/disprovable numbers, how could anyone disprove DET, especially with the vague Aether that was only in his mind?
  • Unfortunately for JR, a sphere and a disk have properties that CAN be measured independently of Aether. ANY FLAT maps would have to conform to the reality of those measurements. Aligning equatorially mounted telescopes with precise angles does this. He did not count on that.
  • ANY FLAT disk will fail. Any theory based on a flat disk will fail. This directly refutes DET. No amount of vague hand-waving will save it.
  • ONLY a spherical model describes what we see. It is a direct proof of its correctness.
“If you can't dazzle them with brilliance, baffle them with bullshit.” W.C. Fields.
"The amount of energy necessary to refute bullshit is an order of magnitude bigger than to produce it."
"What can be asserted without evidence can be dismissed without evidence."

*

JRoweSkeptic

  • Flat Earth Believer
  • 5407
  • DET Developer
Re: DET - discussions
« Reply #18 on: October 29, 2015, 11:37:17 AM »
Just one of many.


i would suggest you try to actually read the theory.
aether is the substance of which space is composed. when space is thinner, you are transported instantly over a distance. light speed is irrelevant, as the variable that changes is distance, not time, not speed.

You are aware that 'transported' is used for any kind of movement? I've been transported by a car, I didn't teleport.
And if you were capable of literacy and honesty, rather than misrepresentation and lies, you'd note that the distance referred to is only from an external, colloquial perspective. From the relevant case, there is no distance being crossed because there is no distance.
http://fet.wikia.com
dualearththeory.proboards.com/
On the sister site if you want to talk.

*

JRoweSkeptic

  • Flat Earth Believer
  • 5407
  • DET Developer
Re: DET - discussions
« Reply #19 on: October 29, 2015, 11:43:38 AM »
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You don't know how exactly whirlpools cause night/day cycles - just that they do.
Bullshit.
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You don't know how the Sun needs to move to cause seasons - especially 24 night/day cycles around polar regions.
Bullshit.
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You don't know how the phases of the Moon are created (it does not rotate like you say)
Bullshit.
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You don't know how Lunar Eclipses are created
Bullshit
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You don't know how the Aether shows these effects on the planet
Complete and utter bullshit
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These heavenly objects remain EXACTLY stationary for centuries with moving Aether/whirlpools?
Trivial. They're not exactly stationary, just moving slowly, in exceedingly distant whirlpools.

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When people did try to modify your theory, you got really upset.
The only person that's tried was obviously mocking.

As your equatorial alignment, all that's left with that is your own pathetic ignorance and arrogance.

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Most of DET is based on the mythical Aether. This has not been proven to even exist
Beyond bullshit.

You clearly didn't even try to learn the model.

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I don't want to spend a bunch of time on something that is blatantly wrong.
And here you find the problem with REers. They assume any FET is wrong, and refuse to take the time to learn it: and you wonder why I didn't like the one-post method. It doesn't work because it requires some degree of honesty on the REer's part: to read, take in, and acknowledge. Clearly, you're incapable of this, as the fact you're demanding detailed figures that no one person, especially one with limited equipment, could possibly get.

Let it just stand as a matter of record you think a valid addition to a conversation is to ask for something no one could possibly be able to determine.
http://fet.wikia.com
dualearththeory.proboards.com/
On the sister site if you want to talk.

?

Jadyyn

  • 1533
Re: DET - discussions
« Reply #20 on: October 29, 2015, 01:37:18 PM »
These are not "Bullshit".
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You don't know how the phases of the Moon are created (it does not rotate like you say)
You don't know how Lunar Eclipses are created
Bullshit
Your lack of understanding astronomy does not constitute "Bullshit". Ask any astronomer.
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As your equatorial alignment, all that's left with that is your own pathetic ignorance and arrogance.
You don't even understand the equatorial alignment objection. It disproves DET. It is something you REALLY need to look into and understand.
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I don't want to spend a bunch of time on something that is blatantly wrong.
And here you find the problem with REers. They assume any FET is wrong, and refuse to take the time to learn it: and you wonder why I didn't like the one-post method. It doesn't work because it requires some degree of honesty on the REer's part: to read, take in, and acknowledge. Clearly, you're incapable of this, as the fact you're demanding detailed figures that no one person, especially one with limited equipment, could possibly get.

Let it just stand as a matter of record you think a valid addition to a conversation is to ask for something no one could possibly be able to determine.
First off, we are discussing ME not other REers. Don't generalize.

I did not assume FET/DET is wrong. I looked at the model. I considered it. As an amateur astronomer, I considered what I do and how it would be done on your model - on your hemidisk. I found a discrepancy. You need to answer it.

Look at UFET. I looked into it. I found 3 disproofs. Did I need to do that? Wouldn't one be sufficient? I can look at UFET for a thousand years and it won't change anything.

Most of the stuff with DET is not provable. Can you prove there is even a Sun IN the Earth? Has anyone viewed it? Is there ANY proof of it? Can you prove Aether even exists and has the properties you say it has (e.g. creates whirlpools)? As you say, you can't possibly determine lots of stuff. Nothing is measurable/verifiable/demonstrable. All you have is a hand-waving theory that I have found a disproof of - that you need to address. Gee, "if you study it some more", what? Will it get rid of the alignment problem with ANY flat disk model?

Until my objection is answered, why should I spend more time on a model that has basically no actual measurements, just hand-waving? To find more things wrong with it? Is one disproof insufficient? Considering most of the model is hand-waving without real measurements, I think it is quite sufficient.

Let's put it this way, I am looking at Hollow Earth and Concave Earth theories. I haven't found anything wrong with them yet. So... I am looking deeper into them. If DET was solid, I would look deeper into it too.
“If you can't dazzle them with brilliance, baffle them with bullshit.” W.C. Fields.
"The amount of energy necessary to refute bullshit is an order of magnitude bigger than to produce it."
"What can be asserted without evidence can be dismissed without evidence."

*

sokarul

  • 19303
  • Extra Racist
Re: DET - discussions
« Reply #21 on: October 29, 2015, 03:03:06 PM »
Just one of many.


i would suggest you try to actually read the theory.
aether is the substance of which space is composed. when space is thinner, you are transported instantly over a distance. light speed is irrelevant, as the variable that changes is distance, not time, not speed.

You are aware that 'transported' is used for any kind of movement? I've been transported by a car, I didn't teleport.
And if you were capable of literacy and honesty, rather than misrepresentation and lies, you'd note that the distance referred to is only from an external, colloquial perspective. From the relevant case, there is no distance being crossed because there is no distance.
When were you transported INSTANTLY in your car? I think we have a word for instantaneous travel, it's called "teleport".
 
ANNIHILATOR OF  SHIFTER

It's no slur if it's fact.

*

JRoweSkeptic

  • Flat Earth Believer
  • 5407
  • DET Developer
Re: DET - discussions
« Reply #22 on: October 30, 2015, 01:19:45 AM »
Just one of many.


i would suggest you try to actually read the theory.
aether is the substance of which space is composed. when space is thinner, you are transported instantly over a distance. light speed is irrelevant, as the variable that changes is distance, not time, not speed.

You are aware that 'transported' is used for any kind of movement? I've been transported by a car, I didn't teleport.
And if you were capable of literacy and honesty, rather than misrepresentation and lies, you'd note that the distance referred to is only from an external, colloquial perspective. From the relevant case, there is no distance being crossed because there is no distance.
When were you transported INSTANTLY in your car? I think we have a word for instantaneous travel, it's called "teleport".

If instant travel over no distance is teleportation, you're teleporting right now. Do you see how foolish you're being?
http://fet.wikia.com
dualearththeory.proboards.com/
On the sister site if you want to talk.

*

JRoweSkeptic

  • Flat Earth Believer
  • 5407
  • DET Developer
Re: DET - discussions
« Reply #23 on: October 30, 2015, 01:23:19 AM »
These are not "Bullshit".
They certainly are. They're all very well explained by the model, you just chose to ignore,

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Your lack of understanding astronomy does not constitute "Bullshit". Ask any astronomer.

You don't even understand the equatorial alignment objection. It disproves DET. It is something you REALLY need to look into and understand.
And yet you've failed to even acknowledge the problem with your argument. You claim i don't understand?!

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First off, we are discussing ME not other REers. Don't generalize.
If it's a general flaw, I'll speak generally.

Quote
I did not assume FET/DET is wrong. I looked at the model. I considered it. As an amateur astronomer, I considered what I do and how it would be done on your model - on your hemidisk. I found a discrepancy. You need to answer it.
And then you came up with one argument which was swiftly refuted but you refused to admit you were wrong.
Quote

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Most of the stuff with DET is not provable. Can you prove there is even a Sun IN the Earth? Has anyone viewed it? Is there ANY proof of it? Can you prove Aether even exists and has the properties you say it has (e.g. creates whirlpools)? As you say, you can't possibly determine lots of stuff. Nothing is measurable/verifiable/demonstrable.
The proof is the fact it matches observations. I'd love it if you could suggest any form of proof that isn't this. REers constantly claim it isn't enough, but they can never manage that simple ask.

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Until my objection is answered, why should I spend more time on a model that has basically no actual measurements, just hand-waving?
You shouldn't, if all you're capable of doing is ignoring what you're told.
http://fet.wikia.com
dualearththeory.proboards.com/
On the sister site if you want to talk.

?

Jadyyn

  • 1533
Re: DET - discussions
« Reply #24 on: October 30, 2015, 05:30:35 AM »
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Quote
These are not "Bullshit".
They certainly are. They're all very well explained by the model, you just chose to ignore,
"Everything builds on something else: you must understand the building blocks to understand the later results." If you can't prove step 1 below, the whole "house of cards" falls down.

You simply STATE that the mythical Aether produces whirlpools. You have not even provided proof it exists (step 1). After you do that, you then need to show it CAN produce whirlpools (step 2). Once you do that, you need to show that these whirlpools do what you claim they do like set positions of stars (step 3). All you do with your model is jump to step 3 assuming Aether exists and has whirlpool creating properties.

You simply STATE that the Sun is in the center of the Earth. You have not proved it (step 1). Everyone, observationally, knows it is in the sky. Then you apply non-existent Aether to perform all the magic that somehow makes it appear in the sky. You have not explained how seasons are formed (step 2). If so, where? quotes please.

I ignore nothing. Something has to exist before I can ignore it.
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Your lack of understanding astronomy does not constitute "Bullshit". Ask any astronomer.

You don't even understand the equatorial alignment objection. It disproves DET. It is something you REALLY need to look into and understand
And yet you've failed to even acknowledge the problem with your argument. You claim i don't understand?!
I failed to acknowledge the problem because there is no problem. What problem specifically?

You totally don't understand.
  • The moon's face ALWAYS faces the Earth. The phase shadow is what moves. I have provided you pictures of this. Have you even looked at them? It is not my fault you can't or won't see. All you are capable of is ignoring what you're shown.
  • Using YOUR rotation of the Moon, the moon CAN NOT rotate to a FULL Moon then, with a FULL Moon showing ALL THE TIME, rotate to make Lunar Eclipses. THAT is TOTAL BS. It makes no sense. Your model relies on this therefore your model doesn't make sense.
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I did not assume FET/DET is wrong. I looked at the model. I considered it. As an amateur astronomer, I considered what I do and how it would be done on your model - on your hemidisk. I found a discrepancy. You need to answer it.
And then you came up with one argument which was swiftly refuted but you refused to admit you were wrong.
All you managed to do is swiftly prove you know nothing about astronomy. There is nothing to admit to.

You NEVER have shown how an equatorially mounted telescope points 40° at the N. Celestial Pole in Denver and needs to point 90° to be parallel to the hemidisks axis (since it is physically IMPOSSIBLE for the telescope to be pointing in 2 directions at the same time). Stop saying you did - much less swiftly. This directly disproves DET.
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Quote
Most of the stuff with DET is not provable. Can you prove there is even a Sun IN the Earth? Has anyone viewed it? Is there ANY proof of it? Can you prove Aether even exists and has the properties you say it has (e.g. creates whirlpools)? As you say, you can't possibly determine lots of stuff. Nothing is measurable/verifiable/demonstrable.
The proof is the fact it matches observations. I'd love it if you could suggest any form of proof that isn't this. REers constantly claim it isn't enough, but they can never manage that simple ask.
What observations? How have you observed the Sun in the Earth? How have you observed the Moon "near the Sun" in the Earth? How have you observed Aether? You have NO proof based on observation.

We observe the Sun in the sky. We observe the Moon in the Sky and it is very often FAR away from the Sun. This proves, observationally, your model is wrong. We have never observed Aether nor have any experiments shown it to exist.

What measurable/verifiable quantities do you have for this model? Just vague hand-waving.
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Until my objection is answered, why should I spend more time on a model that has basically no actual measurements, just hand-waving?
You shouldn't, if all you're capable of doing is ignoring what you're told.
You are absolutely right. I shouldn't. No one should.

I don't buy what your selling because it is WRONG or makes NO SENSE. I am capable of thinking - not just blindly believing your hand-waving because you "said so" (what I'm told).

I have disproved your DET based on REAL telescope setups. DET does not work/describe what we do in the REAL world. DET fails. No amount of BSing on your part will change that.

Unfortunately, I am swiftly coming to the conclusion that you are just another troll. Making vague statements and accusations like:
  • "They're all very well explained by the model, you just chose to ignore"
  • "you've failed to even acknowledge the problem with your argument"
  • "was swiftly refuted but you refused to admit you were wrong"
  • "I'd love it if you could suggest any form of proof that isn't this."
  • "if all you're capable of doing is ignoring what you're told."
Look at your responses in your last post. No real measurements. No real proofs. Making me do all the work off your stupid comments.

This is getting tiring. If you actually have any proofs or measurements I will listen. If all you have are vague hand-waving explanations at best and accusations at worst, I am done with your DET BS. I have provided a major disproof of DET. Until it is answered (it can't because it is IMPOSSIBLE), the DET fails. No one should consider it.
“If you can't dazzle them with brilliance, baffle them with bullshit.” W.C. Fields.
"The amount of energy necessary to refute bullshit is an order of magnitude bigger than to produce it."
"What can be asserted without evidence can be dismissed without evidence."

*

JRoweSkeptic

  • Flat Earth Believer
  • 5407
  • DET Developer
Re: DET - discussions
« Reply #25 on: October 30, 2015, 08:06:17 AM »
Quote
You have not even provided proof it exists (step 1)
Further proof you haven't even tried to learn the model.

Quote
You simply STATE that the Sun is in the center of the Earth.
Deduce from existing laws. But sure, keep lying.

Quote
You have not explained how seasons are formed
An analogue of the classical FE answer holds.
Quote
I failed to acknowledge the problem because there is no problem. What problem specifically?
You have been told the problem. Your only complaint is that I don't copy the holy RE model in every detail.

Quote
You NEVER have shown how an equatorially mounted telescope points 40° at the N. Celestial Pole in Denver and needs to point 90° to be parallel to the hemidisks axis (since it is physically IMPOSSIBLE for the telescope to be pointing in 2 directions at the same time). Stop saying you did - much less swiftly. This directly disproves DET.
It disproves yoru ability to think about anything outside your RE model. You've just ignored every refutation

Quote
You have NO proof based on observation.
I haven't observed your head, therefore you do not have one.
Or, by any chance, is it possible to determine that you do from deduction from observation?
Or are you just being stupid again?

Quote
Look at your responses in your last post. No real measurements. No real proofs. Making me do all the work off your stupid comments.
And look at the fact all your objections have been addressed at various points. No, I'm not going into detail because I see no reason to waste time repeating myself for someone who has already proven they won't acknowledge what they're told. When you're ready to be honest, I'll be here.
http://fet.wikia.com
dualearththeory.proboards.com/
On the sister site if you want to talk.

?

Jadyyn

  • 1533
Re: DET - discussions
« Reply #26 on: October 30, 2015, 09:11:05 AM »
OK, I am done...

My statement of belief:
  • I believe JRoweSkeptic is just another version of Testify and WeissEdel - a troll.
  • They all started insulting people. Calling them liars, idiots, illiterate, etc.
  • They all had/have bizarre theories:
    • Testify - the Moon suddenly appeared 2000 years ago as the "Star of Bethlehem".
    • WeissEdel - the Moon was animals migrating on the FET dome.
    • JRoweSkeptic - DET with the Sun in-between the hemidisks with a mythical Aether that does everything - both unproved or demonstrated.
  • None of their bizarre theories had any proof. There is nothing to measure - just hand-waving.
  • When real evidence and measurements were presented, they just blew them off. "I won't present any measurements but YOU have to prove your measurements are accurate" BS
  • They just wanted others to work to prove stuff while they did nothing and would do nothing (JRoweSkeptic - I don't have the time or resources to prove the Sun is in the Earth or Aether exists. I can't make a map of a 2D surface on a piece of paper. Cartographers are so stupid that over CENTURIES, not one has figured out the Earth was flat - total BS)
  • They just want to argue on most threads for arguments sake (i.e. trolls). They run people around without providing anything useful themselves.
  • They are very vocal on all threads.
  • As I pointed out with WeissEdel, the argument styles are very similar - unique. They are not like other posters.
If it walks like a duck, looks like a duck and quacks like a duck, it is probably a duck.

I have presented a disproof of DET. It basically can not be rebutted because it has to do with the physical attributes of FLAT disks. If JRoweSkeptic chooses not to understand it or try it himself (getting a telescope), then so be it. If he can not understand arguments, this does not disprove them or prove his theory.

I tried to understand DET. I found a fatal flaw. I don't need to know about any other theoretical, unprovable, unmeasurable, unverifiable BS about it.

I will not be subject to insults - period. They do not prove anything he says or disprove anything I say. I deserve the same respect anyone expects from me.

For everyone else, I suggest you read the disproofs and make up your own mind. IMPORTANT - you don't need to know ANYTHING about DET other than it has 2 hemidisks (i.e. 2 FET disks to the equator with a Sun sandwiched in between). My argument is based on Flat disks. JR will try to bring in RET to derail the thought. RET has nothing to do with the disproof.
“If you can't dazzle them with brilliance, baffle them with bullshit.” W.C. Fields.
"The amount of energy necessary to refute bullshit is an order of magnitude bigger than to produce it."
"What can be asserted without evidence can be dismissed without evidence."

*

JRoweSkeptic

  • Flat Earth Believer
  • 5407
  • DET Developer
Re: DET - discussions
« Reply #27 on: October 30, 2015, 09:20:59 AM »
Classical REer tactics. Ignore, accuse, evade. We disagree, so:

  • I must be a troll
  • Every single argument of his I've refuted must somehow still hold
  • A bastardization of my theory which I have called him out on must somehow be accurate
  • A claim that you don't need to understand anything about my theory
  • A flaw in his arguments is somehow my fault for daring to point it out


Jadyyn has repeatedly outright lied about my model, refused to acknowledge correction, and does not understand that the heavens in the FE model are not the exact same as those in the RE model. If this is representative of REers, FET's won.
http://fet.wikia.com
dualearththeory.proboards.com/
On the sister site if you want to talk.

*

sokarul

  • 19303
  • Extra Racist
Re: DET - discussions
« Reply #28 on: October 30, 2015, 09:31:52 AM »
Just one of many.


i would suggest you try to actually read the theory.
aether is the substance of which space is composed. when space is thinner, you are transported instantly over a distance. light speed is irrelevant, as the variable that changes is distance, not time, not speed.

You are aware that 'transported' is used for any kind of movement? I've been transported by a car, I didn't teleport.
And if you were capable of literacy and honesty, rather than misrepresentation and lies, you'd note that the distance referred to is only from an external, colloquial perspective. From the relevant case, there is no distance being crossed because there is no distance.
When were you transported INSTANTLY in your car? I think we have a word for instantaneous travel, it's called "teleport".

If instant travel over no distance is teleportation, you're teleporting right now. Do you see how foolish you're being?
Did you forget your made up theory? Your dual earth theory claims that to get from one side to the other crossing the equator you "transport instantly". The is not a zero distance.
ANNIHILATOR OF  SHIFTER

It's no slur if it's fact.

Re: DET - discussions
« Reply #29 on: October 30, 2015, 01:50:28 PM »
Just one of many.


i would suggest you try to actually read the theory.
aether is the substance of which space is composed. when space is thinner, you are transported instantly over a distance. light speed is irrelevant, as the variable that changes is distance, not time, not speed.

You are aware that 'transported' is used for any kind of movement? I've been transported by a car, I didn't teleport.
And if you were capable of literacy and honesty, rather than misrepresentation and lies, you'd note that the distance referred to is only from an external, colloquial perspective. From the relevant case, there is no distance being crossed because there is no distance.
When were you transported INSTANTLY in your car? I think we have a word for instantaneous travel, it's called "teleport".

If instant travel over no distance is teleportation, you're teleporting right now.

That's not what you said earlier:

aether is the substance of which space is composed. when space is thinner, you are transported instantly over a distance.

This is in the innermost quote block above with emphasis added.

Quote
Do you see how foolish you're being?

It's hard to follow the story when it keeps changing. "Transported instantly over a distance" sounds like teleportation. Has this "feature" of DET been abolished? Can you please provide a link to your official current version of DET for reference?
"Everyone is entitled to his own opinion, but not to his own facts." - Daniel Patrick Moynihan