How does the FE explain tide?

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How does the FE explain tide?
« on: October 09, 2015, 03:42:43 PM »
Just asking.

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Yendor

  • 1676
Re: How does the FE explain tide?
« Reply #1 on: October 11, 2015, 08:08:12 AM »
Just asking.

Oceans go in and oceans go out. Usually twice a day.
"During times of universal deceit, telling the truth becomes a revolutionary act."
                              George Orwell

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Pezevenk

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Re: How does the FE explain tide?
« Reply #2 on: October 11, 2015, 09:19:11 AM »
Member of the BOTD for Anti Fascism and Racism

It is not a scientific fact, it is a scientific fuck!
-Intikam

Read a bit psicology and stick your imo to where it comes from
-Intikam (again)

Re: How does the FE explain tide?
« Reply #3 on: October 11, 2015, 09:43:38 AM »
Just asking.

Oceans go in and oceans go out. Usually twice a day.

Why?
What processes causes tide to occur? Fro what I learn it was from gravity.

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Yendor

  • 1676
Re: How does the FE explain tide?
« Reply #4 on: October 11, 2015, 11:22:27 AM »
Gravity has nothing to do with tides. The earth is a vast irregular structure, stretched out upon and standing or floating in the incompressible waters of the "great deep." The earth has, of necessity, a motion of fluctuation. Hence, when by the pressure of the atmosphere, the earth is depressed or forced slowly down into the "great deep," the waters immediately close in upon the receding bays and headlands, and produce the flood tide; and when, by reaction, the earth slowly ascends, the waters recede, and the result is the ebb tide.

One could simply say the Earth breaths.

"During times of universal deceit, telling the truth becomes a revolutionary act."
                              George Orwell

Re: How does the FE explain tide?
« Reply #5 on: October 11, 2015, 11:55:16 AM »
I don't understand what the "great deep" is. I have only recently join this website. What would cause Earth to have this "breath"?Is't atmospheric pressure on all sides of us? It wouldn't be able to pull/push anything down.

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LuggerSailor

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Re: How does the FE explain tide?
« Reply #6 on: October 11, 2015, 12:04:54 PM »
Gravity has nothing to do with tides. The earth is a vast irregular structure, stretched out upon and standing or floating in the incompressible waters of the "great deep." The earth has, of necessity, a motion of fluctuation. Hence, when by the pressure of the atmosphere, the earth is depressed or forced slowly down into the "great deep," the waters immediately close in upon the receding bays and headlands, and produce the flood tide; and when, by reaction, the earth slowly ascends, the waters recede, and the result is the ebb tide.

One could simply say the Earth breaths.
So, you're implying that high air pressure pushes the earth down resuming in high tides...

Try again -http://weather.mailasail.com/Franks-Weather/Pressure-And-Tides

You flatties really do need to get out and do some observing and then compare your observations with the Flat Earth Conjecture.
LuggerSailor.
Sailor and Navigator.

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Yendor

  • 1676
Re: How does the FE explain tide?
« Reply #7 on: October 11, 2015, 12:57:19 PM »
I don't understand what the "great deep" is. I have only recently join this website. What would cause Earth to have this "breath"?Is't atmospheric pressure on all sides of us? It wouldn't be able to pull/push anything down.

Some suggest the "great deep" refers to subterranean chambers that hold water. When the chambers fill with water the tide is low. When the chambers are low of water the tides are high.

There is a constant but variable pressure of the atmosphere upon the surface of the earth and all the waters. The water is (except to a very small degree), incompressible. The atmospheric air is very elastic and greatly compressible. Any object that floats in the waters, ships, buoys or any other structure which floats on the open sea, is carefully observed, it will be seen to have a gentle and regular fluctuating motion. The star "Polaris" does not maintain its position, but seems to slowly rise and fall in the field of view of a telescope. The line-of-sight will be sometimes above it; in about twelve hours it will be below it; and in another twelve hours it will again be above the star. This peculiar motion could be either the star or the Earth fluctuating.

Who knows how or why this happens? Could it be some kind of filtration system for the oceans and seas of the world?

"During times of universal deceit, telling the truth becomes a revolutionary act."
                              George Orwell

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LuggerSailor

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Re: How does the FE explain tide?
« Reply #8 on: October 11, 2015, 03:25:25 PM »
Polaris is about 3/4° away from the axis of rotation of the globe so it appears to trace a small circle during the course of a day.
High tide occurs about 30 to 40 minutes later each day so cannot be related to the apparent movement of Polaris.

Have you ever seen a tide table?

Keep trying...
LuggerSailor.
Sailor and Navigator.

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Yendor

  • 1676
Re: How does the FE explain tide?
« Reply #9 on: October 11, 2015, 04:34:14 PM »
Polaris is about 3/4° away from the axis of rotation of the globe so it appears to trace a small circle during the course of a day.
High tide occurs about 30 to 40 minutes later each day so cannot be related to the apparent movement of Polaris.

Have you ever seen a tide table?

Keep trying...

Lugger, I'm not trying to convince you of anything. You don't have enough gray matter to do that. The truth of the matter is not a damn soul on Earth knows the reason why there are tides.
I never said Polaris was the reason for tides, I was simply stating that when one observes Polaris  it does move in a pattern and so does tides. Could they be related, who knows? So don't get your panties all in a bunch when someone throws out a thought. If you don't agree or you question it simply do so. You don't have to say things that have a derogatory meaning.
"During times of universal deceit, telling the truth becomes a revolutionary act."
                              George Orwell

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Scroto Gaggins

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Re: How does the FE explain tide?
« Reply #10 on: October 11, 2015, 05:44:44 PM »
Polaris is about 3/4° away from the axis of rotation of the globe so it appears to trace a small circle during the course of a day.
High tide occurs about 30 to 40 minutes later each day so cannot be related to the apparent movement of Polaris.

Have you ever seen a tide table?

Keep trying...

Lugger, I'm not trying to convince you of anything. You don't have enough gray matter to do that. The truth of the matter is not a damn soul on Earth knows the reason why there are tides.
I never said Polaris was the reason for tides, I was simply stating that when one observes Polaris  it does move in a pattern and so does tides. Could they be related, who knows? So don't get your panties all in a bunch when someone throws out a thought. If you don't agree or you question it simply do so. You don't have to say things that have a derogatory meaning.
You admit that you don't know.
Is it not plausible that there are tides because of gravity, then?
They are taking the hobbits to Isengard.

Re: How does the FE explain tide?
« Reply #11 on: October 11, 2015, 06:33:07 PM »
Polaris is about 3/4° away from the axis of rotation of the globe so it appears to trace a small circle during the course of a day.
High tide occurs about 30 to 40 minutes later each day so cannot be related to the apparent movement of Polaris.

Have you ever seen a tide table?

Keep trying...

Lugger, I'm not trying to convince you of anything. You don't have enough gray matter to do that. The truth of the matter is not a damn soul on Earth knows the reason why there are tides.

No, you apparently have no idea why we have tides, but just because you refuse to understand something doesn't mean no one else understands it. The cause of tides is, in fact, quite well understood and has been for centuries - they're mostly due to the gravitational attraction of the Moon, with a small contribution by the Sun.

Quote

I never said Polaris was the reason for tides, I was simply stating that when one observes Polaris  it does move in a pattern and so does tides.

The apparent motion of Polaris is due to the same thing as the apparent motion of all stars: the rotation of the Earth. It really is that simple.

Quote
Could they be related, who knows?

I do. A lot of other people know, too. They're both related to the 23-hour, 56-min daily rotation of the Earth each sidereal day. The tides are later each day by the motion of the Moon about the Earth in its monthly orbit, making high and low tides approximately 50 minutes later each civil day (just as the transit of the Moon is the same amount later each day) on average. It's really quite simple.

Quote
So don't get your panties all in a bunch when someone throws out a thought.

Who has her panties in a wad?? It isn't LuggerSailor.

Quote
If you don't agree or you question it simply do so. You don't have to say things that have a derogatory meaning.

Lugger, I'm not trying to convince you of anything. You don't have enough gray matter to do that.

** Ahem! **
"Everyone is entitled to his own opinion, but not to his own facts." - Daniel Patrick Moynihan

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DonaldC

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  • Physics & Philosophy guy, teach science in China
Re: How does the FE explain tide?
« Reply #12 on: October 11, 2015, 09:23:58 PM »

There is a constant but variable pressure of the atmosphere upon the surface of the earth and all the waters.

Thank you, my colleagues wanted to know what made me laugh out loud. Either it is constant, that is unchanging, or variable, that is always changing, pressure. These terms are incompatible.  Either you are terribly confused about what these terms mean, or your grammar was in serious error and you meant a constantly variable pressure. Which is it?
"Think of the average person. Now remember how stupid he is. Now realize half of them are dumber than that." George Carlin

Re: How does the FE explain tide?
« Reply #13 on: October 11, 2015, 10:17:59 PM »
Gravity has nothing to do with tides. The earth is a vast irregular structure, stretched out upon and standing or floating in the incompressible waters of the "great deep." The earth has, of necessity, a motion of fluctuation. Hence, when by the pressure of the atmosphere, the earth is depressed or forced slowly down into the "great deep," the waters immediately close in upon the receding bays and headlands, and produce the flood tide; and when, by reaction, the earth slowly ascends, the waters recede, and the result is the ebb tide.

One could simply say the Earth breaths.

?are you saying there is a direct link to tides and the barometric pressure? To the best of my knowledge there is no link of any sort. and no evidence of it. Can you come up with something else as strange.
The the universe has no obligation to makes sense to you.
The earth is a globe.

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sandokhan

  • Flat Earth Sultan
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Re: How does the FE explain tide?
« Reply #14 on: October 11, 2015, 11:21:18 PM »

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chtwrone

  • 443
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Re: How does the FE explain tide?
« Reply #15 on: October 11, 2015, 11:43:19 PM »
Polaris is about 3/4° away from the axis of rotation of the globe so it appears to trace a small circle during the course of a day.
High tide occurs about 30 to 40 minutes later each day so cannot be related to the apparent movement of Polaris.

Have you ever seen a tide table?

Keep trying...

Lugger, I'm not trying to convince you of anything. You don't have enough gray matter to do that. The truth of the matter is not a damn soul on Earth knows the reason why there are tides.
I never said Polaris was the reason for tides, I was simply stating that when one observes Polaris  it does move in a pattern and so does tides. Could they be related, who knows? So don't get your panties all in a bunch when someone throws out a thought. If you don't agree or you question it simply do so. You don't have to say things that have a derogatory meaning.


Yendor, have you ever seen a tide chart?

I have posted one to show you what they look like - hopefully you have enough grey matter to understand the information contained within it?







The tides are directly related to the position of the moon and sun, and therefore the gravitational pull that these celestial bodies exert on our planet.

The following caption explains this in slightly more detail -





Well done NASA - 12 men on the moon and back again.

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Yendor

  • 1676
Re: How does the FE explain tide?
« Reply #16 on: October 12, 2015, 06:39:10 AM »

There is a constant but variable pressure of the atmosphere upon the surface of the earth and all the waters.

Thank you, my colleagues wanted to know what made me laugh out loud. Either it is constant, that is unchanging, or variable, that is always changing, pressure. These terms are incompatible.  Either you are terribly confused about what these terms mean, or your grammar was in serious error and you meant a constantly variable pressure. Which is it?

You and your colleagues must be a bunch of fifth graders. You can't figure out what constant but variable means. Let me put it this way, maybe you will understand. "the words coming from your mouth are constant but variable loudness." In other words, the pressure is always there but the pressure varies. Does that help you and your colleagues out. I hope you guys work as hair dressers.
"During times of universal deceit, telling the truth becomes a revolutionary act."
                              George Orwell

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DonaldC

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Re: How does the FE explain tide?
« Reply #17 on: October 12, 2015, 07:08:56 AM »
So your grammar was incorrect, as I stated. Words matter, do try to use language properly. We are teachers, the history teacher, the literature teacher, and me the science teacher enjoyed it. Thanks for the laughs.
"Think of the average person. Now remember how stupid he is. Now realize half of them are dumber than that." George Carlin

Re: How does the FE explain tide?
« Reply #18 on: October 12, 2015, 07:19:04 AM »

There is a constant but variable pressure of the atmosphere upon the surface of the earth and all the waters.

Thank you, my colleagues wanted to know what made me laugh out loud. Either it is constant, that is unchanging, or variable, that is always changing, pressure. These terms are incompatible.  Either you are terribly confused about what these terms mean, or your grammar was in serious error and you meant a constantly variable pressure. Which is it?

You and your colleagues must be a bunch of fifth graders. You can't figure out what constant but variable means. Let me put it this way, maybe you will understand. "the words coming from your mouth are constant but variable loudness." In other words, the pressure is always there but the pressure varies. Does that help you and your colleagues out. I hope you guys work as hair dressers.

Actually, stating that atmospheric pressure creates tides is stupid and funny. I showed it to my classmates and we all had a good laugh. Thanks for that! Your intelligence may vary, but stupid is constant ;D
Earth is flat, but Jupiter is the flattest planet in our solar system.

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Pezevenk

  • 15363
  • Militant aporfyrodrakonist
Re: How does the FE explain tide?
« Reply #19 on: October 12, 2015, 07:24:10 AM »
I don't understand what the "great deep" is. I have only recently join this website. What would cause Earth to have this "breath"?Is't atmospheric pressure on all sides of us? It wouldn't be able to pull/push anything down.

Some suggest the "great deep" refers to subterranean chambers that hold water. When the chambers fill with water the tide is low. When the chambers are low of water the tides are high.

There is a constant but variable pressure of the atmosphere upon the surface of the earth and all the waters. The water is (except to a very small degree), incompressible. The atmospheric air is very elastic and greatly compressible. Any object that floats in the waters, ships, buoys or any other structure which floats on the open sea, is carefully observed, it will be seen to have a gentle and regular fluctuating motion. The star "Polaris" does not maintain its position, but seems to slowly rise and fall in the field of view of a telescope. The line-of-sight will be sometimes above it; in about twelve hours it will be below it; and in another twelve hours it will again be above the star. This peculiar motion could be either the star or the Earth fluctuating.

Who knows how or why this happens? Could it be some kind of filtration system for the oceans and seas of the world?

Yendor, Polaris is not exactly at the north celestial pole, just really really close, so it will seem to "fluctuate" a bit.
Member of the BOTD for Anti Fascism and Racism

It is not a scientific fact, it is a scientific fuck!
-Intikam

Read a bit psicology and stick your imo to where it comes from
-Intikam (again)

*

Yendor

  • 1676
Re: How does the FE explain tide?
« Reply #20 on: October 12, 2015, 09:54:12 AM »
chtwrone, thanks for your chart, I'll try and learn how to read it.

For all you "teachers", believing tides are caused by the moon's gravity, you are easily fooled.

"Seeing" the Earth and Moon to Scale
The moon is about 1.3 light-seconds away (240,000 miles). Here is a scale picture of the Earth-moon system, with the earth (actual diameter: 8,000 miles) represented by a circle just a little bigger than 1/8 inch:
 


Do you see the Earth and how big it is compared to the moon? You believe the moon's gravity is that much stronger than the Earth's gravity that it can actually pull the oceans away from the Earth, and you call yourselves "teachers". I wouldn't let you all teach my dog tricks.
"During times of universal deceit, telling the truth becomes a revolutionary act."
                              George Orwell

Re: How does the FE explain tide?
« Reply #21 on: October 12, 2015, 10:15:21 AM »
chtwrone, thanks for your chart, I'll try and learn how to read it.

For all you "teachers", believing tides are caused by the moon's gravity, you are easily fooled.

"Seeing" the Earth and Moon to Scale
The moon is about 1.3 light-seconds away (240,000 miles). Here is a scale picture of the Earth-moon system, with the earth (actual diameter: 8,000 miles) represented by a circle just a little bigger than 1/8 inch:
 


Do you see the Earth and how big it is compared to the moon? You believe the moon's gravity is that much stronger than the Earth's gravity that it can actually pull the oceans away from the Earth, and you call yourselves "teachers". I wouldn't let you all teach my dog tricks.

It doesen't have to be "pulled away from earth's gravity" if you cared to do some research before you participate in a debate, this might be a place to start:

http://burro.astr.cwru.edu/Academics/Astr221/Gravity/tides.html

It was never the gravitational pull, but differensial forces which is a natural phenomenon caused by attracting forces. The neat thing is that they dont even have to be that strong because there is so much water, and more mass=stronger pull. At least if we can believe newton. This is why big lakes only experience a few millimeters.

And also the moon is about 30% the size of earth, it just seems small it is a few light seconds away. If it was 1/8 inch we would never even see it and it would certaintly not be a moon.

« Last Edit: October 12, 2015, 10:33:47 AM by Kogelblitz »
Earth is flat, but Jupiter is the flattest planet in our solar system.

Re: How does the FE explain tide?
« Reply #22 on: October 12, 2015, 10:53:22 AM »
What would cause Earth to have this "breath"?
The energy of the earth itself which comes back to us through the sun.
« Last Edit: October 12, 2015, 10:57:51 AM by Charming Anarchist »

Re: How does the FE explain tide?
« Reply #23 on: October 12, 2015, 10:56:20 AM »
What would cause Earth to have this "breath"?
tThe energy of the earth itself which comes back to us through the sun.

Haha, you guys are hilarious! How do you  come up with this stuff? Can i borrow this? Haha fc it i'll steal it anyway ;D
« Last Edit: October 12, 2015, 10:59:07 AM by Kogelblitz »
Earth is flat, but Jupiter is the flattest planet in our solar system.

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Yendor

  • 1676
Re: How does the FE explain tide?
« Reply #24 on: October 12, 2015, 01:29:09 PM »
chtwrone, thanks for your chart, I'll try and learn how to read it.

For all you "teachers", believing tides are caused by the moon's gravity, you are easily fooled.

"Seeing" the Earth and Moon to Scale
The moon is about 1.3 light-seconds away (240,000 miles). Here is a scale picture of the Earth-moon system, with the earth (actual diameter: 8,000 miles) represented by a circle just a little bigger than 1/8 inch:
 


Do you see the Earth and how big it is compared to the moon? You believe the moon's gravity is that much stronger than the Earth's gravity that it can actually pull the oceans away from the Earth, and you call yourselves "teachers". I wouldn't let you all teach my dog tricks.

It doesen't have to be "pulled away from earth's gravity" if you cared to do some research before you participate in a debate, this might be a place to start:

http://burro.astr.cwru.edu/Academics/Astr221/Gravity/tides.html

It was never the gravitational pull, but differensial forces which is a natural phenomenon caused by attracting forces. The neat thing is that they dont even have to be that strong because there is so much water, and more mass=stronger pull. At least if we can believe newton. This is why big lakes only experience a few millimeters.

And also the moon is about 30% the size of earth, it just seems small it is a few light seconds away. If it was 1/8 inch we would never even see it and it would certainly not be a moon.


Kogelblitz, did you do your research and can you prove that, "It was never the gravitational pull, but differensial forces?" Because this article doesn't agree with you, I thought I'd share it with you. By the way, the FAKE force talked about is your differensial force.
 
TIDES
It is true, the farther you are from a massive object, the less the gravitational force. So, the side of the Earth that isn’t facing the moon has a lower gravitational force from the moon than the side facing the moon. It’s easy to claim that this causes the tides. It’s simple and easily digestible. However, the Earth has TWO tides. How do you explain the tide on the far side of the Earth?
 
     

In the above diagram (which is not even close to the correct scale), you can see both of the water bulges from the tides. There are some other important things in this picture. First, the red dot shows the center of mass of the Earth-moon system. If these two objects (Earth and moon) were the only things in the universe, they would both orbit around this center of mass. Second, the moon AND the Earth are both moving in circular orbits. It just so happens that the Earth’s orbital radius is smaller than the radius of the Earth. The fact that the Earth is orbiting is important in an explanation of the tides. When an object moves in a circle, it is accelerating. And how do we handle being on an accelerating surface? The best way is to use a fake force? A fake force is a force that we like to add to a situation to account for an accelerating reference frame. Here is a quick example. Suppose you are in an elevator that is accelerating up.

 
 

There are only two real forces on you in this case. There is the gravitational force pulling down and the floor pushing up. The gravitational force doesn’t change since your mass doesn’t change. The floor has to push up with a larger force than gravity in order for you to accelerate up. However, in the frame of the elevator, it seems like you are at rest. So, in your mind (and in calculations) you can add this fake force pushing down. With the fake force, the net force is zero and you stay at rest (in the elevator). The same thing happens on the far side of the Earth. Since the Earth is moving in a circle (due to the orbit of the moon), this part of the Earth is accelerating towards the moon. The fake force for this acceleration would be in the opposite direction as the acceleration, so it would push AWAY from the moon. This is why there is a second tide. Yes, it’s actually more complicated than that. The point is that it can’t JUST be the differential gravitational force that causes the two tides. Consider the following experiment. Suppose that I take the Earth and the moon and tie a rope to each one like this:



Yes, you would need some serious ropes. But the point is that if the two objects are stationary then all the water on the Earth would be pulled towards the moon. It would just have water on one side. So, it’s not JUST stronger gravity on one side.
« Last Edit: October 12, 2015, 01:57:00 PM by Yendor »
"During times of universal deceit, telling the truth becomes a revolutionary act."
                              George Orwell

Re: How does the FE explain tide?
« Reply #25 on: October 12, 2015, 04:25:10 PM »
Kogelblitz, did you do your research and can you prove that, "It was never the gravitational pull, but differensial forces?" Because this article doesn't agree with you, I thought I'd share it with you.
Actually, it does agree, it just explains it differently. Can you provide a reference for this article?

Quote
By the way, the FAKE force talked about is your differensial force.
Writers toss terms like "fake force" around too much, IMO, and it confuses people. The one labeled "fake" in the elevator illustration is, in fact, very real. It's due to your inertia opposing the elevator accelerating your mass upward. If you were standing on a spring scale in the elevator, you'd see it.

What causes the tide on the far side is the difference in acceleration toward the Moon between the center of mass of the earth and at the more distant side while the Earth is in free fall. Period.

Quote
...
Suppose that I take the Earth and the moon and tie a rope to each one like this:



Yes, you would need some serious ropes. But the point is that if the two objects are stationary then all the water on the Earth would be pulled towards the moon. It would just have water on one side. So, it’s not JUST stronger gravity on one side.
The "rope" example is the same as the top drawing in Kogelblitz's link to CWRU with an added arrow at the center the same length as the one already there but pointed the opposite way, representing tension on the rope. Now if you subtract the net force at the center [nb]The net force is zero, since the Earth is not accelerating toward the Moon because it's being restrained by the rope[/nb] from each of the other eight around the circumference, you have the same as the top drawing - all pointing the same direction, and all the water ends up on the same side; the side facing the Moon.

The article Yendor copied goes to great lengths to emphasize that the Earth must be in free fall for us to have the tides we do, but the Earth is in free fall around the Earth-Moon Barycenter, so we do see them. I think the author explains this in a convoluted way, however.
 
"Everyone is entitled to his own opinion, but not to his own facts." - Daniel Patrick Moynihan

Re: How does the FE explain tide?
« Reply #26 on: October 13, 2015, 03:13:36 AM »
chtwrone, thanks for your chart, I'll try and learn how to read it.

For all you "teachers", believing tides are caused by the moon's gravity, you are easily fooled.

"Seeing" the Earth and Moon to Scale
The moon is about 1.3 light-seconds away (240,000 miles). Here is a scale picture of the Earth-moon system, with the earth (actual diameter: 8,000 miles) represented by a circle just a little bigger than 1/8 inch:
 


Do you see the Earth and how big it is compared to the moon? You believe the moon's gravity is that much stronger than the Earth's gravity that it can actually pull the oceans away from the Earth, and you call yourselves "teachers". I wouldn't let you all teach my dog tricks.

It doesen't have to be "pulled away from earth's gravity" if you cared to do some research before you participate in a debate, this might be a place to start:

http://burro.astr.cwru.edu/Academics/Astr221/Gravity/tides.html

It was never the gravitational pull, but differensial forces which is a natural phenomenon caused by attracting forces. The neat thing is that they dont even have to be that strong because there is so much water, and more mass=stronger pull. At least if we can believe newton. This is why big lakes only experience a few millimeters.

And also the moon is about 30% the size of earth, it just seems small it is a few light seconds away. If it was 1/8 inch we would never even see it and it would certainly not be a moon.


Kogelblitz, did you do your research and can you prove that, "It was never the gravitational pull, but differensial forces?" Because this article doesn't agree with you, I thought I'd share it with you. By the way, the FAKE force talked about is your differensial force.
 
TIDES
It is true, the farther you are from a massive object, the less the gravitational force. So, the side of the Earth that isn’t facing the moon has a lower gravitational force from the moon than the side facing the moon. It’s easy to claim that this causes the tides. It’s simple and easily digestible. However, the Earth has TWO tides. How do you explain the tide on the far side of the Earth?
 
     

In the above diagram (which is not even close to the correct scale), you can see both of the water bulges from the tides. There are some other important things in this picture. First, the red dot shows the center of mass of the Earth-moon system. If these two objects (Earth and moon) were the only things in the universe, they would both orbit around this center of mass. Second, the moon AND the Earth are both moving in circular orbits. It just so happens that the Earth’s orbital radius is smaller than the radius of the Earth. The fact that the Earth is orbiting is important in an explanation of the tides. When an object moves in a circle, it is accelerating. And how do we handle being on an accelerating surface? The best way is to use a fake force? A fake force is a force that we like to add to a situation to account for an accelerating reference frame. Here is a quick example. Suppose you are in an elevator that is accelerating up.

 
 

There are only two real forces on you in this case. There is the gravitational force pulling down and the floor pushing up. The gravitational force doesn’t change since your mass doesn’t change. The floor has to push up with a larger force than gravity in order for you to accelerate up. However, in the frame of the elevator, it seems like you are at rest. So, in your mind (and in calculations) you can add this fake force pushing down. With the fake force, the net force is zero and you stay at rest (in the elevator). The same thing happens on the far side of the Earth. Since the Earth is moving in a circle (due to the orbit of the moon), this part of the Earth is accelerating towards the moon. The fake force for this acceleration would be in the opposite direction as the acceleration, so it would push AWAY from the moon. This is why there is a second tide. Yes, it’s actually more complicated than that. The point is that it can’t JUST be the differential gravitational force that causes the two tides. Consider the following experiment. Suppose that I take the Earth and the moon and tie a rope to each one like this:



Yes, you would need some serious ropes. But the point is that if the two objects are stationary then all the water on the Earth would be pulled towards the moon. It would just have water on one side. So, it’s not JUST stronger gravity on one side.

Alpha2omega said it well so I wont add much, however I would like to say something about these "fake" forces. Just because its called a fake force does not mean it's not real. Example: centripetal acceleration creates a force called centrifugal force and it's called a fake force because all acceleration happens in the opposite direction, like when you get pushed to your car door while turning sharply. Even tho there is no force acting on you, you still feel it. Hope this helps to understand "fake" forces.
Earth is flat, but Jupiter is the flattest planet in our solar system.

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Yendor

  • 1676
Re: How does the FE explain tide?
« Reply #27 on: October 13, 2015, 08:41:40 AM »
Kogelblitz, did you do your research and can you prove that, "It was never the gravitational pull, but differensial forces?" Because this article doesn't agree with you, I thought I'd share it with you.
Actually, it does agree, it just explains it differently. Can you provide a reference for this article?

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By the way, the FAKE force talked about is your differensial force.
Writers toss terms like "fake force" around too much, IMO, and it confuses people. The one labeled "fake" in the elevator illustration is, in fact, very real. It's due to your inertia opposing the elevator accelerating your mass upward. If you were standing on a spring scale in the elevator, you'd see it.

What causes the tide on the far side is the difference in acceleration toward the Moon between the center of mass of the earth and at the more distant side while the Earth is in free fall. Period.

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Suppose that I take the Earth and the moon and tie a rope to each one like this:



Yes, you would need some serious ropes. But the point is that if the two objects are stationary then all the water on the Earth would be pulled towards the moon. It would just have water on one side. So, it’s not JUST stronger gravity on one side.
The "rope" example is the same as the top drawing in Kogelblitz's link to CWRU with an added arrow at the center the same length as the one already there but pointed the opposite way, representing tension on the rope. Now if you subtract the net force at the center [nb]The net force is zero, since the Earth is not accelerating toward the Moon because it's being restrained by the rope[/nb] from each of the other eight around the circumference, you have the same as the top drawing - all pointing the same direction, and all the water ends up on the same side; the side facing the Moon.

The article Yendor copied goes to great lengths to emphasize that the Earth must be in free fall for us to have the tides we do, but the Earth is in free fall around the Earth-Moon Barycenter, so we do see them. I think the author explains this in a convoluted way, however.

Alpha2Omega, Here is the link to where I found the article:

http://www.wired.com/2013/11/how-do-you-explain-the-tides-in-10-seconds/
"During times of universal deceit, telling the truth becomes a revolutionary act."
                              George Orwell

Re: How does the FE explain tide?
« Reply #28 on: October 14, 2015, 08:15:28 AM »
Me thinks tides are more a matter of geology than the Round Earth fantasy. No Round Earther can even explain tides, and I've tried to get them to. It's become a thread filled with Round Earthers quabbling among themselves, lying, ignoring responses, contradicting one another and themselves, evading and pretending not to understand.
The moon has nothing to do with tides. if the gravity model is accurate, the far stronger force of the Sun shoudl outweigh it.

No, tides are the work of simple geology. Put some water in a bowl, slosh it: look. It's the same thing, just on a large scale.

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Jadyyn

  • 1533
Re: How does the FE explain tide?
« Reply #29 on: October 14, 2015, 10:07:39 AM »
There you have it folks, WeissEdel (aka god) has spoken so it must be true. The RE is a fantasy so it must be... why bother proving it. Got it...

If you really want to know what was said and how WeissEdel refused to believe it, visit his "Solar Tides" thread and make up your own mind.

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Me thinks tides are more a matter of geology than the Round Earth fantasy.

No, tides are the work of simple geology. Put some water in a bowl, slosh it: look. It's the same thing, just on a large scale.
Nice example, except one small detail... the Flat Earth isn't supposed to move.

As this thread is about the Flat Earth model:
  • So how is this tide going around the Flat Earth if it does not move?
  • What causes this sloshing? God spinning the Flat Earth bowl?
  • If the Moon has nothing to do with it, why do tides follow the Moon?
  • On a Flat Earth, why do tides go in a circle around the equator? Geology? Proof?
  • What is so special about the equator?
  • Why not say 30 deg south latitude where there is A LOT more water?
  • In a bowl, the "tide" is biggest around the edges. Have we observed this around Antarctica?
  • Using "simple geology", what causes tides in the oceans? - your proof?
  • Wouldn't the animals on your dome get washed away (see "Disk Moon" thread) by the humongous tide?
See my signature...
“If you can't dazzle them with brilliance, baffle them with bullshit.” W.C. Fields.
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