Questions from an Airline pilot

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Master_Evar

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Re: Questions from an Airline pilot
« Reply #30 on: September 20, 2015, 10:08:56 AM »

Are you blind..?
The Atlantic Ocean and the Arctic Ocean are not do not stretch so much... your view picture has the European Atlantic Coast so far away from the American Atlantic Coast that is unreal... you can only be a joker helping another joker... the distance from Alaska to Siberia is very short through the Arctic Ocean... your image shows a distance between them on a almost 180 degrees angle... just look at the "picture" you're showing... total noncense

(and sorry... some problems typing for keyboard stiff keys)

You can't see the atlantic in my picture, so I have no idea what you're talking about with that.

Quote
the distance from Alaska to Siberia is very short through the Arctic Ocean...
No, it's short through the Bearing Straight. Which it should be, because it is in reality.

Quote
your image shows a distance between them on a almost 180 degrees angle...

A distance between them at almost 180° angle? That didn't make any sense.
Math is the language of the universe.

The inability to explain something is not proof of something else.

We don't speak for reality - we only observe it. An observation can have any cause, but it is still no more than just an observation.

When in doubt; sources!

Re: Questions from an Airline pilot
« Reply #31 on: September 20, 2015, 10:29:35 AM »

Are you blind..?
The Atlantic Ocean and the Arctic Ocean are not do not stretch so much... your view picture has the European Atlantic Coast so far away from the American Atlantic Coast that is unreal... you can only be a joker helping another joker... the distance from Alaska to Siberia is very short through the Arctic Ocean... your image shows a distance between them on a almost 180 degrees angle... just look at the "picture" you're showing... total noncense

(and sorry... some problems typing for keyboard stiff keys)

You can't see the atlantic in my picture, so I have no idea what you're talking about with that.

Quote
the distance from Alaska to Siberia is very short through the Arctic Ocean...
No, it's short through the Bearing Straight. Which it should be, because it is in reality.

Quote
your image shows a distance between them on a almost 180 degrees angle...

A distance between them at almost 180° angle? That didn't make any sense.

Lying here will not take you anywhere, see:



Stop trolling with fake images.
« Last Edit: September 20, 2015, 10:32:35 AM by Zero Point »

Re: Questions from an Airline pilot
« Reply #32 on: September 20, 2015, 10:37:31 AM »
Do you know why a globe map and a flat map are so incompatible? I has mostly to do with edges. On a globe map, there are no edges. On a flat map, there are edges. When projecting a globe onto a flat plane, you have to "rip" the globe at some points and streatch them out to form the edges required. If you want to project a flat map onto a globe you have to compress and bind together the edges, until all are eliminated. This is why it is absolutely impossible for a flat a map and a globe map to achieve the same geography.
Don't forget that the flat map has only one edge: the ice wall. This wouldn't change as much as you think, with minor tilts and shifts and stretches to the interior. Altering the angle of certain landmasses might prove enough of an alteration, without particularly compromising navigation.
It should also be pointed out that ways around this would still exist. I've seen the idea that the Earth is a plane that moves through higher dimensions several times on this forum: they map the wall to a singular point, while maintaining flatness as far as our definition of height goes. Personally I find that too much of a cop-out, but it should be acknowledged.
Here for the scientific development of a Flat Earth model. Happy to be proven wrong, as I hope you are too.

Re: Questions from an Airline pilot
« Reply #33 on: September 20, 2015, 10:46:40 AM »
Do you know why a globe map and a flat map are so incompatible? I has mostly to do with edges. On a globe map, there are no edges. On a flat map, there are edges. When projecting a globe onto a flat plane, you have to "rip" the globe at some points and streatch them out to form the edges required. If you want to project a flat map onto a globe you have to compress and bind together the edges, until all are eliminated. This is why it is absolutely impossible for a flat a map and a globe map to achieve the same geography.
Don't forget that the flat map has only one edge: the ice wall. This wouldn't change as much as you think, with minor tilts and shifts and stretches to the interior. Altering the angle of certain landmasses might prove enough of an alteration, without particularly compromising navigation.
It should also be pointed out that ways around this would still exist. I've seen the idea that the Earth is a plane that moves through higher dimensions several times on this forum: they map the wall to a singular point, while maintaining flatness as far as our definition of height goes. Personally I find that too much of a cop-out, but it should be acknowledged.

The flat map is correct placing an ice wall all around, but only the side facing the Magnetic Pole is circular... if you walk over the barrier you'll reach one of the 4 edges of a square. Just go there and check it... if you can.

?

Master_Evar

  • 3381
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Re: Questions from an Airline pilot
« Reply #34 on: September 20, 2015, 10:51:48 AM »

Are you blind..?
The Atlantic Ocean and the Arctic Ocean are not do not stretch so much... your view picture has the European Atlantic Coast so far away from the American Atlantic Coast that is unreal... you can only be a joker helping another joker... the distance from Alaska to Siberia is very short through the Arctic Ocean... your image shows a distance between them on a almost 180 degrees angle... just look at the "picture" you're showing... total noncense

(and sorry... some problems typing for keyboard stiff keys)

You can't see the atlantic in my picture, so I have no idea what you're talking about with that.

Quote
the distance from Alaska to Siberia is very short through the Arctic Ocean...
No, it's short through the Bearing Straight. Which it should be, because it is in reality.

Quote
your image shows a distance between them on a almost 180 degrees angle...

A distance between them at almost 180° angle? That didn't make any sense.

Lying here will not take you anywhere, see:



Stop trolling with fake images.

Horrible geometry from your point, they are not 180°. Also, that's not the atlantic coasts but the arctic ocean coasts, dummy. Damn, your geography is just too bad for you to be part of this discussion. You even wrote "arctic ocean" there yourself. The atlantic is at the opposite side of the map.
Math is the language of the universe.

The inability to explain something is not proof of something else.

We don't speak for reality - we only observe it. An observation can have any cause, but it is still no more than just an observation.

When in doubt; sources!

Re: Questions from an Airline pilot
« Reply #35 on: September 20, 2015, 11:07:24 AM »

Are you blind..?
The Atlantic Ocean and the Arctic Ocean are not do not stretch so much... your view picture has the European Atlantic Coast so far away from the American Atlantic Coast that is unreal... you can only be a joker helping another joker... the distance from Alaska to Siberia is very short through the Arctic Ocean... your image shows a distance between them on a almost 180 degrees angle... just look at the "picture" you're showing... total noncense

(and sorry... some problems typing for keyboard stiff keys)

You can't see the atlantic in my picture, so I have no idea what you're talking about with that.

Quote
the distance from Alaska to Siberia is very short through the Arctic Ocean...
No, it's short through the Bearing Straight. Which it should be, because it is in reality.

Quote
your image shows a distance between them on a almost 180 degrees angle...

A distance between them at almost 180° angle? That didn't make any sense.

Lying here will not take you anywhere, see:



Stop trolling with fake images.

Horrible geometry from your point, they are not 180°. Also, that's not the atlantic coasts but the arctic ocean coasts, dummy. Damn, your geography is just too bad for you to be part of this discussion. You even wrote "arctic ocean" there yourself. The atlantic is at the opposite side of the map.

Anyone who knows Europe and Asia can see them on that faked image, as they can see the Atlantic Ocean coast line, both on the European side and American side, but making a 180 degrees angle... if you say you can't see it you don't know nothing or you are trying to deceive on purpose.

Re: Questions from an Airline pilot
« Reply #36 on: September 20, 2015, 11:30:04 AM »
The flat map is correct placing an ice wall all around, but only the side facing the Magnetic Pole is circular... if you walk over the barrier you'll reach one of the 4 edges of a square. Just go there and check it... if you can.
What is your evidence?
I find it very unlikely any kind of quadrilateral would form, much less a perfect square. Do you have any hypotheses on how it came to be?
Here for the scientific development of a Flat Earth model. Happy to be proven wrong, as I hope you are too.

?

Master_Evar

  • 3381
  • Well rounded character
Re: Questions from an Airline pilot
« Reply #37 on: September 20, 2015, 11:34:15 AM »

Are you blind..?
The Atlantic Ocean and the Arctic Ocean are not do not stretch so much... your view picture has the European Atlantic Coast so far away from the American Atlantic Coast that is unreal... you can only be a joker helping another joker... the distance from Alaska to Siberia is very short through the Arctic Ocean... your image shows a distance between them on a almost 180 degrees angle... just look at the "picture" you're showing... total noncense

(and sorry... some problems typing for keyboard stiff keys)

You can't see the atlantic in my picture, so I have no idea what you're talking about with that.

Quote
the distance from Alaska to Siberia is very short through the Arctic Ocean...
No, it's short through the Bearing Straight. Which it should be, because it is in reality.

Quote
your image shows a distance between them on a almost 180 degrees angle...

A distance between them at almost 180° angle? That didn't make any sense.

Lying here will not take you anywhere, see:



Stop trolling with fake images.

Horrible geometry from your point, they are not 180°. Also, that's not the atlantic coasts but the arctic ocean coasts, dummy. Damn, your geography is just too bad for you to be part of this discussion. You even wrote "arctic ocean" there yourself. The atlantic is at the opposite side of the map.

Anyone who knows Europe and Asia can see them on that faked image, as they can see the Atlantic Ocean coast line, both on the European side and American side, but making a 180 degrees angle... if you say you can't see it you don't know nothing or you are trying to deceive on purpose.

Sorry, but what describe as europe in that picture is just asia. Asia is not some small country in siberia. Go study some geography.
And what you call a coast is just our atmosphere.
Math is the language of the universe.

The inability to explain something is not proof of something else.

We don't speak for reality - we only observe it. An observation can have any cause, but it is still no more than just an observation.

When in doubt; sources!

?

Master_Evar

  • 3381
  • Well rounded character
Re: Questions from an Airline pilot
« Reply #38 on: September 20, 2015, 11:38:16 AM »
Do you know why a globe map and a flat map are so incompatible? I has mostly to do with edges. On a globe map, there are no edges. On a flat map, there are edges. When projecting a globe onto a flat plane, you have to "rip" the globe at some points and streatch them out to form the edges required. If you want to project a flat map onto a globe you have to compress and bind together the edges, until all are eliminated. This is why it is absolutely impossible for a flat a map and a globe map to achieve the same geography.
Don't forget that the flat map has only one edge: the ice wall. This wouldn't change as much as you think, with minor tilts and shifts and stretches to the interior. Altering the angle of certain landmasses might prove enough of an alteration, without particularly compromising navigation.
It should also be pointed out that ways around this would still exist. I've seen the idea that the Earth is a plane that moves through higher dimensions several times on this forum: they map the wall to a singular point, while maintaining flatness as far as our definition of height goes. Personally I find that too much of a cop-out, but it should be acknowledged.

Quote
Don't forget that the flat map has only one edge: the ice wall. This wouldn't change as much as you think, with minor tilts and shifts and stretches to the interior.

Minor? The outer-most stretch of the ice wall is an infinitely small point on a globe. Australia is stretched by 1.5x it's length or something.

Quote
Altering the angle of certain landmasses might prove enough of an alteration, without particularly compromising navigation.

No. Only if the edge is large on a globe it'll work.
Math is the language of the universe.

The inability to explain something is not proof of something else.

We don't speak for reality - we only observe it. An observation can have any cause, but it is still no more than just an observation.

When in doubt; sources!

Re: Questions from an Airline pilot
« Reply #39 on: September 20, 2015, 11:41:51 AM »
The flat map is correct placing an ice wall all around, but only the side facing the Magnetic Pole is circular... if you walk over the barrier you'll reach one of the 4 edges of a square. Just go there and check it... if you can.
What is your evidence?
I find it very unlikely any kind of quadrilateral would form, much less a perfect square. Do you have any hypotheses on how it came to be?

And what is your evidence that the Earth is flat..? if I'm telling you that you are right saying there is a round barrier of ice surrounding a flat Earth, even when you don't offer me any evidence for it, why is it so hard for you to accept what follows the ice barrier is a square edge because this world is just one of the sides of a cubic Earth..? Should I believe without evidence, but not you..?

The square edge is square but it may be or not be perfect... yet I'm 99% sure is a perfect square.

My "hypothesis" on how it came to be is that it was made.

.

Re: Questions from an Airline pilot
« Reply #40 on: September 20, 2015, 11:44:06 AM »

Minor? The outer-most stretch of the ice wall is an infinitely small point on a globe. Australia is stretched by 1.5x it's length or something.[/qute]
The azimuthal projection is not representative of every possible FE map. To pretend it is, is simply dishonest.

Quote

No. Only if the edge is large on a globe it'll work.
Evidence for the bold?

Quote from: Zero Point
And what is your evidence that the Earth is flat..? if I'm telling you that you are right saying there is a round barrier of ice surrounding a flat Earth, even when you don't offer me any evidence for it, why is it so hard for you to accept what follows the ice barrier is a square edge because this world is just one of the sides of a cubic Earth..? Should I believe without evidence, but not you..?
If you believe the world was made you are not being scientific, until you can offer evidence for a maker.
I am developing a FE hypothesis. Evidence comes from testing, which may only be done when the model is complete. I may be wrong: you appear to be certain, however, so I ask for evidence.
Here for the scientific development of a Flat Earth model. Happy to be proven wrong, as I hope you are too.

?

Master_Evar

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  • Well rounded character
Re: Questions from an Airline pilot
« Reply #41 on: September 20, 2015, 12:08:57 PM »

Minor? The outer-most stretch of the ice wall is an infinitely small point on a globe. Australia is stretched by 1.5x it's length or something.
The azimuthal projection is not representative of every possible FE map. To pretend it is, is simply dishonest.

But in this case you refered to that map, as you refered to the ice wall, which is the antarctic according to FE. I never said anything else.

Quote

No. Only if the edge is large on a globe it'll work.
Evidence for the bold?
The larger the edge is, the less you have to distort it to to "wrap it up". I'll show you tomorrow if you want to.
Math is the language of the universe.

The inability to explain something is not proof of something else.

We don't speak for reality - we only observe it. An observation can have any cause, but it is still no more than just an observation.

When in doubt; sources!

Re: Questions from an Airline pilot
« Reply #42 on: September 20, 2015, 01:01:30 PM »

Minor? The outer-most stretch of the ice wall is an infinitely small point on a globe. Australia is stretched by 1.5x it's length or something.[/qute]
The azimuthal projection is not representative of every possible FE map. To pretend it is, is simply dishonest.

Quote

No. Only if the edge is large on a globe it'll work.
Evidence for the bold?

Quote from: Zero Point
And what is your evidence that the Earth is flat..? if I'm telling you that you are right saying there is a round barrier of ice surrounding a flat Earth, even when you don't offer me any evidence for it, why is it so hard for you to accept what follows the ice barrier is a square edge because this world is just one of the sides of a cubic Earth..? Should I believe without evidence, but not you..?
If you believe the world was made you are not being scientific, until you can offer evidence for a maker.
I am developing a FE hypothesis. Evidence comes from testing, which may only be done when the model is complete. I may be wrong: you appear to be certain, however, so I ask for evidence.

Yes... I'm certain and I have no doubt at all, and I would give you the evidence you need if I had my own satellite on space, but I don't.

If you find it was made following scientific methods you would still see it was
made even without evidence of a maker... and as I said before, like you could
read, I'm only 99% sure it was made... but I'm not 100% certain... I have not
seen the maker or makers.

If you believe in testing, test the information I disclosed for faults
and proceed from that.

.

Re: Questions from an Airline pilot
« Reply #43 on: September 20, 2015, 02:24:34 PM »
Quote from: Evar
But in this case you refered to that map, as you refered to the ice wall, which is the antarctic according to FE. I never said anything else.
You referenced the shape of Australia: this was what I had a problemw ith.

Quote
The larger the edge is, the less you have to distort it to to "wrap it up". I'll show you tomorrow if you want to.
I am aware. My problem is with your claim that the only possible way to do it is to make dramatic distortions, rather than scaled shifts and minor tilts. You are making claims about a map that does not yet exist, based upon a projection not intended to represent distances, and explicitly made by tearing a globe and stretching the Antarctic and having the outer hemiplane be an annulus with the radius of the greater circle being twice that of the inner. This was never going to be realistic.

Quote from: Zero Point
Yes... I'm certain and I have no doubt at all, and I would give you the evidence you need if I had my own satellite on space, but I don't.
If you find it was made following scientific methods you would still see it was
made even without evidence of a maker... and as I said before, like you could
read, I'm only 99% sure it was made... but I'm not 100% certain... I have not
seen the maker or makers.
If you are certain, from where did you get your evidence?
There is no evidence for makers, and to assume them is a grave breach of any reasoned thought. With no makers, something cannot be made. With makers you run into the problems of motive, ability, and sheer convenience.
Here for the scientific development of a Flat Earth model. Happy to be proven wrong, as I hope you are too.

Re: Questions from an Airline pilot
« Reply #44 on: September 20, 2015, 02:32:08 PM »
Quote from: Evar
But in this case you refered to that map, as you refered to the ice wall, which is the antarctic according to FE. I never said anything else.
You referenced the shape of Australia: this was what I had a problemw ith.

Quote
The larger the edge is, the less you have to distort it to to "wrap it up". I'll show you tomorrow if you want to.
I am aware. My problem is with your claim that the only possible way to do it is to make dramatic distortions, rather than scaled shifts and minor tilts. You are making claims about a map that does not yet exist, based upon a projection not intended to represent distances, and explicitly made by tearing a globe and stretching the Antarctic and having the outer hemiplane be an annulus with the radius of the greater circle being twice that of the inner. This was never going to be realistic.

Quote from: Zero Point
Yes... I'm certain and I have no doubt at all, and I would give you the evidence you need if I had my own satellite on space, but I don't.
If you find it was made following scientific methods you would still see it was
made even without evidence of a maker... and as I said before, like you could
read, I'm only 99% sure it was made... but I'm not 100% certain... I have not
seen the maker or makers.
If you are certain, from where did you get your evidence?
There is no evidence for makers, and to assume them is a grave breach of any reasoned thought. With no makers, something cannot be made. With makers you run into the problems of motive, ability, and sheer convenience.

Just test it and forget about makers...
that's all it takes.

?

Master_Evar

  • 3381
  • Well rounded character
Re: Questions from an Airline pilot
« Reply #45 on: September 20, 2015, 02:37:32 PM »
Quote
The larger the edge is, the less you have to distort it to to "wrap it up". I'll show you tomorrow if you want to.
I am aware. My problem is with your claim that the only possible way to do it is to make dramatic distortions, rather than scaled shifts and minor tilts. You are making claims about a map that does not yet exist, based upon a projection not intended to represent distances, and explicitly made by tearing a globe and stretching the Antarctic and having the outer hemiplane be an annulus with the radius of the greater circle being twice that of the inner. This was never going to be realistic.

Take and orange and peel it. Try to recreate the peel but make it flat. It'll work out on about half of the peel, but the rest of the peel is not going to connect in any way. You wont be able to make a circle where the peel is connected where it should be. If you can find a way to recreate the full peel of an orange on a 2D plane as a full circle with the peel only connecting at the original rips I'll change my mind. But this is a perfect example of how incompatible a globe map and a flat map are.
Math is the language of the universe.

The inability to explain something is not proof of something else.

We don't speak for reality - we only observe it. An observation can have any cause, but it is still no more than just an observation.

When in doubt; sources!

Re: Questions from an Airline pilot
« Reply #46 on: September 20, 2015, 02:48:45 PM »
Take and orange and peel it. Try to recreate the peel but make it flat. It'll work out on about half of the peel, but the rest of the peel is not going to connect in any way. You wont be able to make a circle where the peel is connected where it should be. If you can find a way to recreate the full peel of an orange on a 2D plane as a full circle with the peel only connecting at the original rips I'll change my mind. But this is a perfect example of how incompatible a globe map and a flat map are.
Yes: what is your point? This only means something if you assume the world is a globe.
After all, globes are perfect spheres. The Earth is said to be more like:



Globe-maps are only ever meant to be approximately accurate, even in the RE model. That 'approximate' gives me a lot to work with. It's uneven, squashed: and all your orange peel shows is that I'm not infinitely dexterous and it's hard to work with infinitely small lengths. A net of a sphere can be made: ultimately a sphere can be treated as a shape with infinite faces. A net would be a fractal, but it could easily exist in nature: and that's even assuming a perfect sphere, which no one holds.
Here for the scientific development of a Flat Earth model. Happy to be proven wrong, as I hope you are too.

Re: Questions from an Airline pilot
« Reply #47 on: September 20, 2015, 03:10:23 PM »
The Earth is said to be more like:




No, it's not said to be that shape.  That image is a visualisation:

Quote
Nearly a year’s worth of gravitational measurements from the European Space Agency’s Gravity Field and Steady-State Ocean Circulation Explorer (GOCE) have yielded a colourful map portraying the geoid – the shape the Earth’s surface would be if it was entirely covered by water and influenced by gravity alone.

The result is not a smooth sphere because mass is not distributed evenly within the Earth’s mantle. Different parts of the globe exert a different gravitational pull on the ocean, meaning that sea level is lower than expected in some places – represented by blue patches – and higher than expected in others – the red and yellow areas.

In the visualisation, the vertical scale has been exaggerated by a factor of 7000, so the pits and crests are 7000 times shallower or taller, respectively, than depicted here.

Unless you plan to travel round the world via sea beds, it's not relevant.  Though it clearly demonstrates the world is not flat, obviously.
Quote from: mikeman7918
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Master_Evar

  • 3381
  • Well rounded character
Re: Questions from an Airline pilot
« Reply #48 on: September 20, 2015, 03:28:12 PM »
Take and orange and peel it. Try to recreate the peel but make it flat. It'll work out on about half of the peel, but the rest of the peel is not going to connect in any way. You wont be able to make a circle where the peel is connected where it should be. If you can find a way to recreate the full peel of an orange on a 2D plane as a full circle with the peel only connecting at the original rips I'll change my mind. But this is a perfect example of how incompatible a globe map and a flat map are.
Yes: what is your point? This only means something if you assume the world is a globe.
After all, globes are perfect spheres. The Earth is said to be more like:



Globe-maps are only ever meant to be approximately accurate, even in the RE model. That 'approximate' gives me a lot to work with. It's uneven, squashed: and all your orange peel shows is that I'm not infinitely dexterous and it's hard to work with infinitely small lengths. A net of a sphere can be made: ultimately a sphere can be treated as a shape with infinite faces. A net would be a fractal, but it could easily exist in nature: and that's even assuming a perfect sphere, which no one holds.

An orange peel is much less uniform than earth. And it's still a shape with no edges. And it's more or less a globe - a globe is not perfect anyways.

If my point is not clear yet - you can't accurately turn a globe into a flat surface or vice versa. So a globe map of the full earth is not in any way accurately compatible with a flat map of the full earth. Which means if one map is accurate then the other cannot be accurate. Because they are incompatible, you'll have to terribly distort a map to turn it from a flat to a globe or vice versa.
Math is the language of the universe.

The inability to explain something is not proof of something else.

We don't speak for reality - we only observe it. An observation can have any cause, but it is still no more than just an observation.

When in doubt; sources!

Re: Questions from an Airline pilot
« Reply #49 on: September 20, 2015, 04:56:37 PM »
If my point is not clear yet - you can't accurately turn a globe into a flat surface or vice versa. So a globe map of the full earth is not in any way accurately compatible with a flat map of the full earth. Which means if one map is accurate then the other cannot be accurate. Because they are incompatible, you'll have to terribly distort a map to turn it from a flat to a globe or vice versa.
I think what you mean is that you can't turn a globe into a flat surface with any meaningful area in which to have the continents. It would be easy to create a map using infinitely small sections. For example, one sphere map is made up of multiple lens shapes, arcs all joined together: make them arbitrarily thin, you could get a successful map. However, it would be impossible for a person to exist on that, let alone a continent.
What you can do, however, is fill in any gaps. The fact we can't perfectly map a globe to a plane doesn't mean much because if the world is flat, it is not a globe.

Even so, the uneven Earth-shape actually makes it far easier to map to a plane, as it can be described far more easily by means of a shape with distinct edges. Those clearly do have planar nets. A little tilting, maybe minor stretching, you could theoretically gain a planar map.
Here for the scientific development of a Flat Earth model. Happy to be proven wrong, as I hope you are too.

?

Master_Evar

  • 3381
  • Well rounded character
Re: Questions from an Airline pilot
« Reply #50 on: September 20, 2015, 10:10:19 PM »
If my point is not clear yet - you can't accurately turn a globe into a flat surface or vice versa. So a globe map of the full earth is not in any way accurately compatible with a flat map of the full earth. Which means if one map is accurate then the other cannot be accurate. Because they are incompatible, you'll have to terribly distort a map to turn it from a flat to a globe or vice versa.
I think what you mean is that you can't turn a globe into a flat surface with any meaningful area in which to have the continents. It would be easy to create a map using infinitely small sections. For example, one sphere map is made up of multiple lens shapes, arcs all joined together: make them arbitrarily thin, you could get a successful map. However, it would be impossible for a person to exist on that, let alone a continent.
What you can do, however, is fill in any gaps. The fact we can't perfectly map a globe to a plane doesn't mean much because if the world is flat, it is not a globe.

Even so, the uneven Earth-shape actually makes it far easier to map to a plane, as it can be described far more easily by means of a shape with distinct edges. Those clearly do have planar nets. A little tilting, maybe minor stretching, you could theoretically gain a planar map.

No, my point is that the maps would not be compatible.

1. One has edges, the other have none.
2. The lesser the edges, the greater the distortion.

You won't get close to an accurate map. For this I'm assuming edges as an distortion. You could make many edges to avoid distortions, but edges themselves are distortions as they create borders which did not exist, or elliminate borders that did exist:

I am respecting everything, sea bed and every surface. Map's like these work to scale, but they create borders that dont exist.
Math is the language of the universe.

The inability to explain something is not proof of something else.

We don't speak for reality - we only observe it. An observation can have any cause, but it is still no more than just an observation.

When in doubt; sources!

Re: Questions from an Airline pilot
« Reply #51 on: September 21, 2015, 05:18:34 AM »
Quote from: Evar
No, my point is that the maps would not be compatible.

1. One has edges, the other have none.
2. The lesser the edges, the greater the distortion.

You won't get close to an accurate map. For this I'm assuming edges as an distortion. You could make many edges to avoid distortions, but edges themselves are distortions as they create borders which did not exist, or elliminate borders that did exist:
You're still assuming one way of constructing a map: and for that matter assuming Antarctica as a set point. That example would remain drastically different to any proposed FE map.
Close around the Arctic. Tilt the Americas so SA is still pointed towards Africa, while NA moves nearer to Russia. That's a hasty example of a better, if not perfect, map.
Keeping the angles each landmass is poised at constant between each map is purposefully limiting options.

I am aware of edges as errors: I did specifically bring up that problem in my last post. Fill in the gaps between edges with sea and that may help well enough: you'll be left with lots of little distortions from a globe, certainly, but a) that's only relevant if you assume the Earth is a globe, and b) it won't matter on the typical scale journeys occur in.
This is without getting onto the possibility of the Earth being tilted through a higher dimension, which I've seen proposed.
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Master_Evar

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Re: Questions from an Airline pilot
« Reply #52 on: September 21, 2015, 05:42:30 AM »
Quote from: Evar
No, my point is that the maps would not be compatible.

1. One has edges, the other have none.
2. The lesser the edges, the greater the distortion.

You won't get close to an accurate map. For this I'm assuming edges as an distortion. You could make many edges to avoid distortions, but edges themselves are distortions as they create borders which did not exist, or elliminate borders that did exist:
You're still assuming one way of constructing a map: and for that matter assuming Antarctica as a set point. That example would remain drastically different to any proposed FE map.
Close around the Arctic. Tilt the Americas so SA is still pointed towards Africa, while NA moves nearer to Russia. That's a hasty example of a better, if not perfect, map.
Keeping the angles each landmass is poised at constant between each map is purposefully limiting options.

I am aware of edges as errors: I did specifically bring up that problem in my last post. Fill in the gaps between edges with sea and that may help well enough: you'll be left with lots of little distortions from a globe, certainly, but a) that's only relevant if you assume the Earth is a globe, and b) it won't matter on the typical scale journeys occur in.
This is without getting onto the possibility of the Earth being tilted through a higher dimension, which I've seen proposed.

No, I'm not assuming anything. And if you tilt the landmasses, it'll distort the sea bed horribly, and distances between land masses will also be distorted.

If you fill gaps (you can't fill edges, but you can fill space between edges) with any water, you add something which doesn't exist. If you add space which does not exist it is no longer a map of the same place. You can stretch the sea bed out to fill some gaps, but that would, well, stretch them out. And my biggest problem with edges is the fact that on one figure it has to exist, on the other it can't possibly exist. Today, there is no known edge or border of the earth. The proposed antarctica is visited by tourists every year, and can be visited by FE:s themselves. There is obviously no edge there. There is also no edge in the arctic. There is also no edge in the pacific, neither in the atlantic. There is no recorded edge anywhere on earth that is known today. The edge has to go around the whole earth, so it has to be very large/long. It would be very hard to hide something that size. The lack of a border/edge makes perfect sense on a globe, but makes no sense on a flat plane.

Earth being tilted through dimensions has no scientific ground behind it. Might as well say that the edge bends space time, so if you try to cross it you walk through complicated bent space time and go out on the other side of the flat earth.
Math is the language of the universe.

The inability to explain something is not proof of something else.

We don't speak for reality - we only observe it. An observation can have any cause, but it is still no more than just an observation.

When in doubt; sources!

Re: Questions from an Airline pilot
« Reply #53 on: September 21, 2015, 06:56:59 AM »
No, I'm not assuming anything. And if you tilt the landmasses, it'll distort the sea bed horribly, and distances between land masses will also be distorted.
Yes, it will. Multiple small distortions don't mean much. No one's claiming the FE and RE maps will be identical: they're not going to be. All that matters is that the FE map will be more accurate than the RE map. After all, we navigate by globes despite the Earth being oblate, even by the RE model. It isn't perfectly round, and yet the approximation works: all that matters is that the error bars in distance and direction for a map (FE or RE) aren't greater than the natural distortion of scaling down such a large object and factory errors.

Quote
Earth being tilted through dimensions has no scientific ground behind it. Might as well say that the edge bends space time, so if you try to cross it you walk through complicated bent space time and go out on the other side of the flat earth.
Nothing has scientific ground behind it: until it does. Higher dimensions certainly have promise, as far as hypothesizing goes: and they're far from impossible. It's very likely, borderline proven, that such dimensions exist, so it is almost more of a surprise that the Earth wouldn't exist, to some degree, in that direction, than if it did.
Hypothesizing doesn't need to have scientific ground behind it. It merely needs to be possible: then the scientific ground is found by experimentation once the model is complete and can be tested.
Here for the scientific development of a Flat Earth model. Happy to be proven wrong, as I hope you are too.

Re: Questions from an Airline pilot
« Reply #54 on: September 21, 2015, 07:26:21 AM »
No, I'm not assuming anything. And if you tilt the landmasses, it'll distort the sea bed horribly, and distances between land masses will also be distorted.
Yes, it will. Multiple small distortions don't mean much. No one's claiming the FE and RE maps will be identical: they're not going to be. All that matters is that the FE map will be more accurate than the RE map. After all, we navigate by globes despite the Earth being oblate, even by the RE model. It isn't perfectly round, and yet the approximation works: all that matters is that the error bars in distance and direction for a map (FE or RE) aren't greater than the natural distortion of scaling down such a large object and factory errors.

Quote
Earth being tilted through dimensions has no scientific ground behind it. Might as well say that the edge bends space time, so if you try to cross it you walk through complicated bent space time and go out on the other side of the flat earth.
Nothing has scientific ground behind it: until it does. Higher dimensions certainly have promise, as far as hypothesizing goes: and they're far from impossible. It's very likely, borderline proven, that such dimensions exist, so it is almost more of a surprise that the Earth wouldn't exist, to some degree, in that direction, than if it did.
Hypothesizing doesn't need to have scientific ground behind it. It merely needs to be possible: then the scientific ground is found by experimentation once the model is complete and can be tested.
Proven measured distances only work on a round earth.

Re: Questions from an Airline pilot
« Reply #55 on: September 21, 2015, 09:31:08 AM »
Proven measured distances only work on a round earth.
Could you be more specific? Which distances, and proven how?
Here for the scientific development of a Flat Earth model. Happy to be proven wrong, as I hope you are too.

Re: Questions from an Airline pilot
« Reply #56 on: September 21, 2015, 10:18:45 AM »
Proven measured distances only work on a round earth.
Could you be more specific? Which distances, and proven how?
All.  Unless you can prove otherwise.

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Master_Evar

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Re: Questions from an Airline pilot
« Reply #57 on: September 21, 2015, 10:23:35 AM »
Proven measured distances only work on a round earth.
Could you be more specific? Which distances, and proven how?

If you combine all proven distances, you'd need a third dimension to connect them all properly. And guess what shape it becomes  ::)
Math is the language of the universe.

The inability to explain something is not proof of something else.

We don't speak for reality - we only observe it. An observation can have any cause, but it is still no more than just an observation.

When in doubt; sources!

Re: Questions from an Airline pilot
« Reply #58 on: September 21, 2015, 10:48:52 AM »

the Earth being tilted through a higher dimension,
This doesn't mean anything.
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Re: Questions from an Airline pilot
« Reply #59 on: September 21, 2015, 11:59:35 AM »
Proven measured distances only work on a round earth.
Could you be more specific? Which distances, and proven how?
All.  Unless you can prove otherwise.

That's not how it works. You made the claim, you are expected to justify it. I cannot disprove a statement when there is no justification to disprove.
Further, I posed two questions. Which distances, and proven measured how? Even if your response were an answer (it is not), it remains incomplete.


the Earth being tilted through a higher dimension,
This doesn't mean anything.
Could you please be clearer? I thought the intent was obvious: the Earth is flat with respect to our dimensions, but the distances wont match with a 2-D object because it exists in another. Certainly, I am only suggesting this as wild speculation, as an idea it's fraught with convenient assumptions, but even so it is interesting.
Here for the scientific development of a Flat Earth model. Happy to be proven wrong, as I hope you are too.