Your first impression doesn't always reflect reality

The point of this thread is to prove that your first impression of a probelem does not always reflect reality.

Imagine you have a car that has a separate odometer on it's front and back wheels.  If you drive it around for a while which set of wheels will travel further?

I am sure that all of you have had the first impression that they travel an equal distance, but in reality the front wheels go a bit further.  I am not going to tell you why that is for now, and I want to see if anyone can figure it out.

I assume you're referring to how front wheels typically have more power behind them than the back? That way those wheels would rotate slightly more, as they'd be better able to get past friction.

Statements like "Does not always," while generally applicable aren't too sueful unless you can show which camp the subject matter belongs in.

I assume you're referring to how front wheels typically have more power behind them than the back? That way those wheels would rotate slightly more, as they'd be better able to get past friction.

Statements like "Does not always," while generally applicable aren't too sueful unless you can show which camp the subject matter belongs in.

Your explenation is incorrect, but I agree with everything else in your post.

What's an odomater?

What's an odomater?

Probably an alternative spelling of odometer.

Quote from: legion on September 14, 2015, 12:53:15 PM

What's an odomater?

Probably an alternative spelling of odometer.

The same with 'explenation'?

Quote from: markjo on September 14, 2015, 01:13:45 PM

Quote from: legion on September 14, 2015, 12:53:15 PM

What's an odomater?

Probably an alternative spelling of odometer.

The same with 'explenation'?

Legion, I have a $10 bet with a workmate, that you won't be able to answer the initial question correctly.

See if you can prove me wrong.

By the way, I know what the answer is. It's actually quite simple, but I still have grave doubts that you'll know it.

What's an odomater?

The same with 'explenation'?

Addressing spelling errors rather then what I am trying to say ranks pretty low on the hierarchy of disagreement:



Step up your game.

Your explenation is incorrect, but I agree with everything else in your post.

Mm, fun conundrum then.
If we go by strict distance travelled, as a GPS would pick up (barring the front wheel drive pulling the car an atom's length longer, or something similarly minor) the two sets of wheels must have gone the same distance as the distance between the two is always the same. That's obvious in every situation except corners, where pivoting is possible. I'm not sure if that's likely behavior for cars, however.
I assumed you were referring to rotational distances, in which case the front wheels would have rotated slightly more.
Corners seem the best reason, but I'll have to come back to this in the morning.

I think I will do this the same way I did Einstein's riddle (if you remember that).  When someone figures ot out then PM me and I will tell you if you are right.  This time there will be no limit to the number of times you can ask me if something is correct.

If you just want to know the answer then PN me and I will tell you, but keep it under your hat and don't ruin the fun.

The point of this thread is to prove that your first impression of a probelem does not always reflect reality.

Imagine you have a car that has a separate odometer on it's front and back wheels.  If you drive it around for a while which set of wheels will travel further?

I am sure that all of you have had the first impression that they travel an equal distance, but in reality the front wheels go a bit further.  I am not going to tell you why that is for now, and I want to see if anyone can figure it out.

Back wheels rotate more often but front wheels travel 3.5 meters further forward than rears.
This video proves it.
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Oh and by the way, that's how clouds are made!

The point of this thread is to prove that your first impression of a probelem does not always reflect reality.

Imagine you have a car that has a separate odometer on it's front and back wheels.  If you drive it around for a while which set of wheels will travel further?

I am sure that all of you have had the first impression that they travel an equal distance, but in reality the front wheels go a bit further.  I am not going to tell you why that is for now, and I want to see if anyone can figure it out.

If you rule out mechanical differences between the front and back wheels, the only thing I can visualize different is the temperature difference between the front and back wheels and the road. The front tires would always start rolling, from a standstill, into the direct sunlight whereas the rear tires would  start rolling out in the shaded area left by the vehicle setting there creating a cooler spot. If that makes a difference, I don't know.This is as far as my brain can take me.

FEScientist sent my a private message and he figured out the logic puzzle.

Yendor: it is also possible that the Sun is behind the vehicle, and the effect of heat expansion is negligible.  Try considering inherent differences between the front and back wheels in every car.

its the front wheels because when the car turns left and right the back wheels cut the corners, its the same reason articulated lorries have to take a wide approach to corners becuase the back wheels don't follow the same arc. sorry to ruin your thread by being a smart arse but now you know how it feels

its because when the car turns left and right the back wheels cut the corners, its the same reason articulated lorries have to take a wide approach to corners b ecuase the back wheels don't follow the same arc. sorry to ruin your thread but now you know how it feels

I guess the back tires will pivot when you turn sharp and the front tires roll.

its not rocket science, has no one ever parked their car in a tight spot by driving up and over the curb then back onto the road with the front wheels to get the back wheels closer to the curb?

The back wheels  take a short cut

The back wheels  take a short cut

God, you are really smart.

Your front tyres cover a massive amount of distance compared to your back tyres. That's why they wear more quickly.

Quote from: brutal delux on September 15, 2015, 10:39:08 AM

The back wheels  take a short cut

God, you are really smart.

nah, i'm just a backward flat earther with bad parking habbits

its the front wheels because when the car turns left and right the back wheels cut the corners, its the same reason articulated lorries have to take a wide approach to corners becuase the back wheels don't follow the same arc. sorry to ruin your thread by being a smart arse but now you know how it feels

What do you mean "now you know how it feels"?  When have I ever done that?

sorry it must have been a dream i had.

FEScientist sent my a private message and he figured out the logic puzzle.

FEShitehawk claims to be a woman, RETARD.

Not that anyone believes anything either It or You say anyway...

Quote from: mikeman7918 on September 15, 2015, 07:46:31 AM

FEScientist sent my a private message and he figured out the logic puzzle.

FEShitehawk claims to be a woman, RETARD.

Not that anyone believes anything either It or You say anyway...

It doesn't matter.  I am not sexist so I don't care.

Quote from: mikeman7918 on September 15, 2015, 07:46:31 AM

FEScientist sent my a private message and he figured out the logic puzzle.

FEShitehawk claims to be a woman, RETARD.

Not that anyone believes anything either It or You say anyway...

  Hey Papa Legba, you don't have a twin  brother do you? You know, like the challenger crew, (wink wink)

heres a puzzle for you mikeman, if it takes an 80 piece orchestra 8 minutes to play a symphony, how long will it take a 45 piece orchestra?

It doesn't matter.  I am not sexist so I don't care.

I think he was referring to your pronoun use.

You're doing a pretty bad job of ignoring him, by the way. 

heres a puzzle for you mikeman, if it takes an 80 piece orchestra 8 minutes to play a symphony, how long will it take a 45 piece orchestra?

8 minutes.  Nice trick question

Your front tyres cover a massive amount of distance compared to your back tyres. That's why they wear more quickly.

Actually, the front tyres DON'T 'cover a massive amount of distance compared to your back tyres'. In the general course of driving, with a mix of urban and motorway travel, the front tyres will only travel an additional 2-3% compared to the rear.

Even then, this extra 2-3% accounts for only a small percentage of the total extra wear that the front tyres experience compared to the rear.

The main contributors to extra wear of the front tyres are as follows -

1/  Whenever a car breaks, weight transfer is experienced from the rear to the front. The front of the car dips because of this extra weight, therefore this extra weight will cause more forces to be exerted onto the front tyres thereby causing extra wear. Conversely, the rear tyres have less weight on them during braking and experience less wear.

2/  The typical suburban/family car has its engine in the front. This accounts for between an extra 5 to 10 percent of the weight of the car sitting on the front tyres. This extra weight accounts for increased wear on the front tyres.

3/  The front wheels do all the steering, with the resultant extra forces being exerted on the tyres, accounting for a huge amount of wear.

4/   Many cars are front wheel drive, which means all the acceleration forces from the engine are transferred to the tyres, thereby causing extra wear to be encountered by the tyres at the front.

5/  All 4 wheels of a car should be professionally balanced and aligned periodically. It is always the front wheels that typically go out of alignment first due to wear of the steering and suspension components, and this condition drastically accelerates wear of the front tyres compared to the rear.

6/  Due to the extra weight the front tyres have to carry compared to the rear, the temperature of the front tyres is always more. This increased temperature softens the rubber, and soft tyres obviously encounter more wear than the comparatively harder rear tyres.


Conclusion -

The very small percentage of extra distance covered by the front tyres compared to the rear, accounts for a relatively minor amount of extra wear to the front tyres.
The primary and over-riding causes of the extra wear encountered by the front tyres, is due to the increased weight being borne by the front tyres due to the engine being in the front, the extra forces encountered by the front tyres during steering, the likelihood of misalignment of the front wheels, the increased temperature of the front tyres and resulting softness causing increased wear, and the extra accelerations forces being transferred to the front tyres in front-wheel drive vehicles.

Sceptimatic, you might want to actually do some research, before attempting to offer suggestions concerning technical subjects such as tyre wear, as ignorant and simplistic offerings such as the one you have given are easily debunked, in the same fashion by which flat earth theory is also easily debunked.