Fundamental Attractive Forces

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Fundamental Attractive Forces
« on: September 05, 2015, 03:21:50 PM »
One of the major puzzles in Physics is the idea of a Unified Theory: these often relate to the four Fundamental Interactions (electromagnetism, gravity, and the strong and weak nuclear forces). Notably, three of the four (electromagnetism, gravity, and the strong nuclear force) explicitly function as attractive forces: and the weak and electromagnetism forces are themselves unified as the 'electroweak force' at sufficient temperatures, so there is a connection there.

Long story short, attraction is a crucial, fundamental aspect of nature and the physical laws. Similarly, there is the expectation of a Grand Unified Theory, where the forces are all linked (save gravity). The cliche Theory of Everything supposes an epoch where gravity too was connected to them.

The point is, attraction is fundamental to everything. It seems only logical for this to be included in any working theory.

My hypothesis involves combining the electromagnetic force, and gravity. They may be the same force, only varying in what it is they effect. Magnetism holds for particles with charge, gravity for those with mass: the two may be analogous. If so, this would alter gravity somewhat: perhaps not noticably, but if you examine the magnetic fields of two magnets nearby, the fields alter one another: gravity may behave similarly. (We observe the Allais Effect also: when the Sun and moon are in line, both being of comparably size and closeness on a FE, it is possible the gravity on the Earth varies subtly. The evidence is mildly ambiguous, but far from non-existent: any other theory that didn't go against such a fundamental would likely be at best accepted, at worse a common supposition).

This would also cause gravity to not inherently favor spherical shapes; the Earth might form between two orbs (perhaps two Suns, though of course we only see one: the other would no doubt cause geothermal energy).
If electromagnetism and gravity are indeed related, it follows they may be related to the other fundamental forces: other attractive forces, which makes clear that the range and strength of gravity can vary from object to object. While this is pure speculation, that observation likely holds in any case. It is meant only to demonstrate that a ToE may be more approachable under a FE model.

While this is, of course, speculation, it is where my mind is currently going. The theory is clearly full of holes currently: clearly incomplete, but it would allow for what we call gravity, for geothermal energy, for the movement of the Sun, and may also explain some of the odd behavior of light. It also explains the origins of a disc-Earth.

This is currently mere speculation: I can offer no evidence (I am not at that stage yet: a working hypothesis must be formed first), but this feels both neat, and somewhat practical. It is odd to consider that the fundamental forces may vary from that which is commonly taught, but this is unavoidable when rethinking science. I am not adding complications: rather, I am replacing them.

Tl;dr: there are not four fundamental forces, there is one: an attractor. it simply manifests different when dealing with masses, charges, and possibly quantum particles.
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Re: Fundamental Attractive Forces
« Reply #1 on: September 06, 2015, 03:19:48 AM »
Good to see a flattie making an effort for once.  Doesn't make any sense, but it still way better than the usual crap.
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sokarul

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Re: Fundamental Attractive Forces
« Reply #2 on: September 06, 2015, 01:12:20 PM »
Gravity effects light as well.

You lose.
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Re: Fundamental Attractive Forces
« Reply #3 on: September 06, 2015, 01:36:47 PM »
Good to see a flattie making an effort for once.  Doesn't make any sense, but it still way better than the usual crap.
Thank you for the compliment. May I ask what areas do not make sense to you? A theory is fairly useless if it cannot be explained.
The basic notion is that, instead of the four fundamental forces, there is one which depends on mass, charge, and possibly size (the weak nuclear force is not included, as it is not yet fully defined or explained outside of consequence, so it is hard to analyze: temperature may be a variable however as at sufficient heats the weak nuclear and electromagnetic force are in fact the same). This one force is simply an attractive force: it's quite interesting to note that this attraction is, quite literally, fundamental to everything.
If they are all unified under one equation (which I'll work on if this turns out to be useful to my model) then while on the small scale our current knowledge works fine, there may be variations on a large scale. For example, gravity acts on things with mass, electromagnetism on things with charge, and the strong nuclear force on very small objects: and the forces are the same, so when gravity acts on an object, electromagnetism and the strong interaction also are, even if it isn't always noticable (ie: there is insufficient charge, or too much size).
This might also let certain parts of the world attract photons, as magnets attract metal filings, (I'd suspect those with higher refractive indices, as this attraction would likely cause more refraction: it would make light take a longer path through the object).

Gravity effects light as well.

You lose.
I'm not sure when I said it didn't?
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mikeman7918

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Re: Fundamental Attractive Forces
« Reply #4 on: September 06, 2015, 01:49:12 PM »
Electromagnetism is actually both a repulsive and attractive force, depending on the  charges of the particles involved.

You are certainly not the first person to make this hypothesis, but there is currently no evidence to support it.  It is also not the only hypothesis about more fields being unified.
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Re: Fundamental Attractive Forces
« Reply #5 on: September 06, 2015, 01:59:27 PM »
Electromagnetism is actually both a repulsive and attractive force, depending on the  charges of the particles involved.
Very true, thank you for the addition. However, there is discussion in scientific circles on 'repulsove gravity', for example: and it is very hard to gauge what happens at the subatomic level for the other two.

Quote
You are certainly not the first person to make this hypothesis, but there is currently no evidence to support it.  It is also not the only hypothesis about more fields being unified.
From what I can gather, a lot of discussion seems to be on if there was ever an epoch when the forces were one: there is less discussion on seeing if they are unified at present. However, this may be because it wouldn't work on a RE.
The Allais effect may prove evidence for it, as it suggests two massive objects may influence the gravitational field of one another. However, this too would only be effective on a FE. Such experiments are far too inconclusive.
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sokarul

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Re: Fundamental Attractive Forces
« Reply #6 on: September 06, 2015, 03:54:05 PM »
You said
Quote
Magnetism holds for particles with charge, gravity for those with mass
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Re: Fundamental Attractive Forces
« Reply #7 on: September 06, 2015, 04:08:46 PM »
You said
Quote
Magnetism holds for particles with charge, gravity for those with mass
I was referring to what exerted said forces. Magnetism is exerted only by things with charge, gravity by only those with mass.
As such, the laws that govern such things only apply in those cases: you cannot apply the law governing how much gravity is exerted on something with no mass.

I believe it was very clear what I meant. If you have any productive additions, I will be glad to hear them.
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sokarul

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Re: Fundamental Attractive Forces
« Reply #8 on: September 06, 2015, 04:33:02 PM »
I don't really have anything to add. Nothing is going to come of this. Actual scientists are already working on unifying electromagnetic force and gravitation.  I'm not sure why you think you can accomplish it when they haven't yet been able to, especially when you aren't a scientist and don't have a lab.
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Re: Fundamental Attractive Forces
« Reply #9 on: September 06, 2015, 05:56:30 PM »
Gravity effects light as well.

You lose.

You do know there is a difference between "effect" and "affect", right?  I can explain it to you, if you need me to do so. 

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sokarul

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Re: Fundamental Attractive Forces
« Reply #10 on: September 06, 2015, 05:58:16 PM »
Gravity effects light as well.

You lose.

You do know there is a difference between "effect" and "affect", right?  I can explain it to you, if you need me to do so.
Sorry this thread contains general relativity ideas.  You probably should just leave before you say something stupid. We all saw how that went last.
« Last Edit: September 06, 2015, 06:05:56 PM by sokarul »
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Re: Fundamental Attractive Forces
« Reply #11 on: September 06, 2015, 06:04:21 PM »
Gravity effects light as well.

You lose.

You do know there is a difference between "effect" and "affect", right?  I can explain it to you, if you need me to do so.
Sorry this thread contains general relativity ideas.  You probably should just leave before you say some stupid. We all saw how that went last.

I am sorry, I just thought I would help you understand the difference between a noun and verb.  If you don't care to learn the difference, then you may continue being ignorant.  It is your right.  :-\

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sokarul

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Re: Fundamental Attractive Forces
« Reply #12 on: September 06, 2015, 06:07:12 PM »
You got me, I don't know the difference between a noun and verb.
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Re: Fundamental Attractive Forces
« Reply #13 on: September 06, 2015, 06:08:17 PM »
Bases on your history of grammar and spelling, I would say you do not. 

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sokarul

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Re: Fundamental Attractive Forces
« Reply #14 on: September 06, 2015, 06:09:19 PM »
cool
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Re: Fundamental Attractive Forces
« Reply #15 on: September 06, 2015, 06:10:43 PM »
I just wish that was the only thing wrong with you, old friend. 

Re: Fundamental Attractive Forces
« Reply #16 on: September 06, 2015, 06:12:16 PM »
I don't really have anything to add. Nothing is going to come of this. Actual scientists are already working on unifying electromagnetic force and gravitation.  I'm not sure why you think you can accomplish it when they haven't yet been able to, especially when you aren't a scientist and don't have a lab.

We'll see if I succeed. The fact is, this offers some aid in developing a FE model: and as such, unification is far more possible under the FE view.
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sokarul

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Re: Fundamental Attractive Forces
« Reply #17 on: September 06, 2015, 06:22:03 PM »
Well you can search sandokhan's post for his attempts to show they are one in the same. But you will find if you attempt to fact check his claims you will find that he intentionally lies and distorts the truth to fit his needs.
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