The Tropopause

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The Tropopause
« on: September 04, 2015, 02:28:17 PM »
Hello,

I was researching jet streams to determine how they would impact my attempt to find a FE map, and I came onto an interesting fact. There is something known as the tropopause: it is the border between the troposphere (in which we live), and the stratosphere. It serves as a form of 'lid' to a lot of air flow (for example, if air flows over mountains, it can often end up somewhat compressed, to fit between the tops of the mountain range, and the tropopause. Apparently this is used in a lot of meteorological prediction.
Essentially, this marks a discontinuity. While we would expect the smooth decrease in pressure, and the smooth (if uneven with respect to time) application of heat to the atmosphere, to result in a continuous change, this very much isn't the case. if we examine just temperature:



There is quite a sharp, jagged zigzag: the opposite of what we'd expect. A change in direction might be expected, but not quite so sharp, and not quite so often.

What this means, is that there is a very clear division present in the atmosphere (or atmoplane), so much so that air struggles to reach those heights even though there should be far less up there.
While boundaries are to be expected at certain points, these are far more defined by what we would expect in any situation exposed purely to continuous impulses.

(Please don't ask me to explain more about this topic: if all you have to offer is what you research, that's how I unearthed this problem. There are no clear answers to be found like that, I'm hoping someone's studied the topic.
Here for the scientific development of a Flat Earth model. Happy to be proven wrong, as I hope you are too.

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Rayzor

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Re: The Tropopause
« Reply #1 on: September 05, 2015, 01:27:14 AM »
Below the tropopause,  the temperature falls as you go higher,   this leads to the situation where you have an unstable environment,  with colder air over the top of warmer air,  warmer air wants to rise and colder air wants to sink.   Without going into Meteorology 101,  this is one of the drivers of our weather.   Above the tropopause there is much less wind and more stable weather patterns,   the jet streams are below the tropopause.   

It doesn't say on your graph,   but  the boundary is usually around 60-70,000 ft.   Also,  above 60,000 ft is mostly uncontrolled airspace,   You don't need to lodge flight plans,  but you do need radar reflectors for balloons etc..   If you are transiting through controlled air space to reach the stratosphere,  you still need flight plans for aircraft over a certain size and weight.


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XaeXae

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Re: The Tropopause
« Reply #2 on: September 05, 2015, 05:10:59 AM »
Seems that we've got a good explanation here : https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lapse_rate#Significance_in_meteorology

Re: The Tropopause
« Reply #3 on: September 05, 2015, 08:11:51 AM »
Thank you for your replies: however, one crucial detail is present in each of them. They require the pause to already exist, to explain its presence.
There should be no notable discontinuity between cooler and warmer air, however: it would have smoothed out by the warm-air-rises principle already mentioned. Instead, we have two points, adjacent, and yet so drastically different it exerts a major influence on our weather. The rotation of the Earth may make more complicated the flow of pressure, but it wouldn't keep forever such a pause, even if one would come into being in the first place.

And, unless we forget, there is far more than just one.
Here for the scientific development of a Flat Earth model. Happy to be proven wrong, as I hope you are too.

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Rayzor

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Re: The Tropopause
« Reply #4 on: September 05, 2015, 07:02:32 PM »
Thank you for your replies: however, one crucial detail is present in each of them. They require the pause to already exist, to explain its presence.
There should be no notable discontinuity between cooler and warmer air, however: it would have smoothed out by the warm-air-rises principle already mentioned. Instead, we have two points, adjacent, and yet so drastically different it exerts a major influence on our weather. The rotation of the Earth may make more complicated the flow of pressure, but it wouldn't keep forever such a pause, even if one would come into being in the first place.

And, unless we forget, there is far more than just one.

No,   the  drop in temperature as you go higher is caused by the pressure reducing,     remember PV=nRT,   as the pressure goes down the temperature drops,  look up "adiabatic lapse rate",   there is usually a lower altitude inversion,  maybe a few thousand ft,  that one you can see by the height of the cloud base.    ( That's why clouds have flat bottoms )   depending on humidity,   that's where the moisture condenses,   surprise, surprise that's what clouds are.  :)

The tropopause  boundary is where the heating of the atmosphere by the sun becomes greater than the adiabatic lapse rate,  so it starts to get warmer as you get higher, but  the atmosphere is getting pretty thin at that stage and there is no moisture to speak of,  that all condensed out in the troposphere.

Thanks Master Evar for the earlier correction,  but the post by cwtwrone seems to have been deleted.

Stop gilding the pickle, you demisexual aromantic homoflexible snowflake.