Apparently Light=Sound now

Quote from: sokarul on August 11, 2015, 04:08:42 PM

Quote from: Yendor on August 11, 2015, 10:22:42 AM

Okay, I finally realize where everyone is getting confused with what i'm saying. I guess it is my fault, I didn't explain it good enough.

If you look at an EM chart you will find radio frequency waves , light frequency waves and other various frequency waves. However, most charts will not mention audible frequency waves. I have seen some old ones that do but most new ones don't. It seems most of you think when I say audible frequency waves I'm talking about sound waves. I'm not, i'm only talking about the the fact that audible frequencies are EM waves too. They are no different then any other frequency wave. Someone said that you can't transmit audible frequencies and I used the example of the Navy's ELF program. ELF means Extremely Low Frequencies that are in the 40 to 80 Hz range. They used these frequencies to communicate with submarines that are under water. These frequencies are in deed in the audible frequency range.

Yes, there are problems.
1. There is no such thing as "audible frequency waves" on any EMF chart ever made.
2. No one said you couldn't transmit audio.
3. You said sound and EM wave frequencies don't overlap only to post an example where they do.
4. You listed some and had me and other point out the difference between sound waves and EM waves. They are not even close to the same thing.

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Sound is another matter. Sound is produced when something vibrates. When something vibrates it causes friction. light is the result of friction. Grind a piece of metal and you can see sparks of light coming from the grinding wheel, that is the actual metal on fire as it leaves the the grinding wheel. This is one example you can actually see because the light produced is in your vision frequency range and you can also hear it because the sound the grinding makes is in your hearing frequency range. Now, if you were causing something else to vibrate or it was vibrating because of its natural frequency, then it too would cause friction, sound and also light.
You may not hear it or see it, but it still would be there.

You disproved this part when you posted later how a light bulb works. When you grind metal off, it is hot and thus produces light. Friction did heat up the metal but it still glows as it flies away when friction is over.

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Scepi and I are simply saying that everything has either a man made vibrating frequency or a natural vibrating frequency and that that the vibrating frequency causes friction and that friction
causes sound and also light. Now, the sound produced may not be in the audible frequency range so you can't hear it. The same with the light. It may not be in your vision frequency range, so you can't see it.

Which is untrue. You even posted that electrons of hot objects give off light. That is opposite of what this claims. So which is it?

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Getting back to sound. I don't believe neither Scepti or myself said sound does not cause air to move. You know it does because microphones and speakers work because of air moving. Again, If the frequency the air is moving is in the human hearing range, you will hear it. If it not in the human hearing range you will not hear it.

He did. So anyways, how can a pressure wave and an EM wave be the same thing?

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The actual frequency of all this does not matter as long as vibration occurs. That is why I said that the audible frequency range, (20 to 20kHz), not the sound just the frequency should also be listed as a member of the EM frequency spectrum. No, they all say it is just pressure waves and not EM waves. When in fact all frequency waves can be pressure waves not just the audible frequency waves. They are simply the only ones humans can hear.

Negative. The ear cannot pick up EM waves. No matter what you calim, you will never be abel to back up what you just said.

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This is what I believe and you can argue if you want.

Faith again. I'll stick to actual evidence.

Sokarul,

I'm only going to respond to one thing you said at this time because I want to show you a chart that does actually show the actual audible frequency and it even shows a person's ear. See if you can find it.

Your quote:
1. There is no such thing as "audible frequency waves" on any EMF chart ever made.

Hopefully this chart below will prove you are wrong.

They put it on there for comparison, they are not claiming they are EM waves.

Edit: The picture is from a homeopath website. That explains a lot. So yeah sound is still pressure waves and light is still an EM wave.

Quote from: sceptimatic on August 12, 2015, 08:09:02 AM

Quote from: Mainframes on August 12, 2015, 05:19:58 AM

Quote from: sceptimatic on August 12, 2015, 04:10:22 AM

Quote from: mikeman7918 on August 11, 2015, 07:37:34 PM

Quote from: panoslydios on August 11, 2015, 06:26:28 PM

Light is light of the eye.
Sound is light of the ear.

Here is proof that you are wrong:

#" class="bbc_link" target="_blank" rel="noopener noreferrer">! No longer available

The sound gets quieter and eventually inaudible while the light remains unaltered.  And before you inevitably claim that the video is fake I have personally seen a demonstration of this.

You don't even know what's happening with that set up. You think you do but you're wrong.

Tell me what you think is happening from start to finish. Start off with what you think that pump is doing.
Once you spin me the bullshit, I'll happily explain exactly what's happening from start to finish.

So, the removal of gas molecules from the chamber through use of a what is probably a positive displacement pump resulting in the inability of sound waves to propagate due to a lack of medium. Please enlighten us as to why this is wrong, complete will full experimental evidence. I wont hold my breath......

When someone comes along who appears to look like they know, I will explain. You clearly cannot explain what's actually happening.

Well, I could expand by explaining how the positive displacement pump actually works and then go on to describe how a minuscule amount of sound might be able to propagate through the table top but this will be very small compared to the amount of sound that would be generated if air was present.

You couldn't explain your way out of a wet paper bag. Presumably you will go on about how there are no gaps between matter and that vacuums cant be created .....

I'll explain what's really happening inside that chamber. I'm doing this for those who have the ability to grasp what I'm saying, so don't take this as me trying to explain SPECIFICALLY to you, because I'm almost certain you are incapable of understanding the simplicity of it all.


Anyway folks: in that bell jar with the bell inside of it, the reason why you hear the bell before the pump is activated is because the atmospheric pressure inside of it is the same as outside of it and only seperated by the thickness of the actual jar itself.

Ok now I'm going to carefully go over this so the genuine lay people will understand it.
 For those who are not familiar with the bell jar vacuum, let's be absolutely clear that a vacuum does not and cannot exist, as in the removal of air pressure and I'll explain why.

When a pump is switched on, it appears to SUCK out the air inside the jar, right?
Now pay attention to what I'm saying. Seriously pay attention because I'm going to enlighten you as to why it doesn't suck at all nor does the pump drag anything out of the jar. In fact the pumps job is not to do anything inside that jar.

Huh? I hear you all shout.
You saw it correct. The pump does not suck or drag anything out of the jar. What it does do is stops air from entering the jar.

Now I'm starting to confuse you aren't I ?

Keep your eyes peeled and your basic common sense heads on because what's about to come will possibly change your whole aspect on not only this bell in a bell jar but space and all the rest of the crap told to you.

Ok so the pump is connected and you see the pipe and open/shut valve. Now as I explained...before you run that pump, you have a bell jar that is holding the same atmospheric pressure as outside, apart from the actual jar thickness itself that seperates the internal and external pressure.

You noticed I repeated myself, right?....good, I hope you have because this needs drumming into your heads as easy as possible and without mainstream bullshit added.

 Ok, so what exactly is the pump doing if it's not directly playing a part in the bell jar?
Well think of it like this. The pump is the night club bouncers employed to make sure no excess  air (people) gets back in once those doors (valve) are opened to let out the the air (people) inside who are compressed in that jar (nightclub).

So what is happening?
Well...the pump is pushing the air away from itself and as it does this, it means that the atmospheric air molecules which are under severe compression inside the jar can actually expand a little bit and in doing so some will squeeze out of the jar into the pipe.
Confused?
Ok back to the night club.
The bouncers (pump) are told to allow the people in the night club, out. The problem is there is a lot of people pushing against the door trying to get in.
The bouncers use all their energy to push against the inner doors of the night club and in doing so they push the people away who are trying to get in. As they do this, the people inside start to merge with the others, outside because they are managing to expand themselves more to push into the less compressed space the bouncers created.

The bouncers can only do so much to compress the outside crowd whilst allowing the inner crowd to decompress enough to create a less pressurised inner club, meaning the bouncers inside can actually move among them more freely because they are not under as much resistance, because all that extra resistance has been transferred to the outside.
Now if the Bouncers manage to close the doors tight shut (valve) they can keep it like this, except they know that the external pressure has built up and is pushing back with more force onto the doors which are strong enough to hold them back and allow the inner people to expand more freely meaning they do not apply anything like the compression on each other like they did before.

Ok so what this all means is, inside the bell jar the molecules are expanded but still attached like bubbles in a sink, except we cannot see them.
The bell inside that was ringing is not able to create a compressed wave enough to send the vibrations to our ear drums because the molecules are just too flimsy to respond.

Basically the tight as drums molecules under compression against a bell vibration have now turned into a mass of drums that are as soppy as trampoline fabric. Basically they absorb too much vibration and fade out before they move too far in a wave..

Seriously try and think about this, because if you do, you will also understand why water boils in this environment but doesn't actually heat boil, it simply expands in a big way to such an extent that it appears to boil like a kettle but then it starts to freeze. Why?

Because the expansion is such that the molecules start to expand to their max and can't expand much more, so they start to go dormant. they basically cannot force themselves out of the bell jar any more, so they simply stop agitating...or freezing, as you see happening.

I implore you all to seriously think about what I'm telling you because I've spent a while typing this out and I'm not doing it just for the frigging fun of it.

Ok, so why can light still go through this bell jar, low pressure environment?
It's because the external environment is all around it and can reflect through it because the jar still acts as the medium as well as expanded molecules.
We see the reflection/refraction as our eyes see the light waves as they are far far superior in picking up those waves.

So what about making a true vacuum in that bell jar?
If you think about it, you cannot do it because as I explained earlier under this atmospheric environment we live under, there has to be a force and that force always has to be an action and equal and opposite reaction.

Now , as I mentioned about the pump simply pushing back on atmosphere pushing against it and allowing the atmosphere inside the bell jar to expand and push itself out....there has to be an point inside the bell jar when the molecules can't push against each other with any energy, which means that all around the inner jar there  is an equal push of molecules that simply have no expansion left and simply stop trying to expand at all because they are too weak to get out.

To picture this, just imagine you and your friends being trapped in a massive container with a lid on. You are all whining and sweaty and squashed like babies in a womb but then someone pops that lid off meaning those at the top who's heads were pushed against that lid, managed to stand up and hop out ,leaving those below to stand up and get out...and so on  and so on , until all the people that are left are now fully expanded and upright and all they can do is stand on each other's shoulders up to the brim and also managing to outstretch their arms and hands horizontally to just touch the sides...yet that's the lot. None can push against the container anymore and have to hope the container holds up against the extra people that poured out and are not adding pressure externally, or the container collapses.

If it collapses, it no longer classifies as a container, so in effect you could say that the space no longer exists and is now a true vacuum, except that we all know it would make no real sense down here on land but it would make sense up above where the molecules are expanded and dormant as ice and the blackness that ice is against is in actual (possible) reality...what we would really term as a TRUE vacuum.
The absence of all matter that we see as the blackest black that cannot possess any light because it is the total absorbing of all the colour weaves of the spectrum...or quite simply...all light and vibration that makes it.

I fully expect a frenzy of shill like characters jumping on this. I fully expect a massive attempt at ridicule. This bothers me, none.
What I would be bothered about is seeing some really genuine people...those that have the ability to see the potential truth and are willing to try and understand what I'm saying.
Don't do it for me, do it for yourselves because you owe it to yourselves to free your own minds.

Scepti, the fact that vacuum pumps don't suck is a generally accepted scientific fact and for most of us it's not new information.  The only things you said that is not scientifically accepted is that molecules expand and that light and sound are the same thing.

Here is a thought experiment that proves that vacuums are possible.  Imagine you take a container and empty out all but one atom of the air, and then you put in a divider separating the container into two isolated sections.  If the atom splits into two and is still air then by definition it isn't an atom, but if it picks one of the sections then the other one is a perfect vacuum.

When a pump is switched on, it appears to SUCK out the air inside the jar, right?
Now pay attention to what I'm saying. Seriously pay attention because I'm going to enlighten you as to why it doesn't suck at all nor does the pump drag anything out of the jar. In fact the pumps job is not to do anything inside that jar.

Bla Bla Bla
Bla Bla The pump does not suck or drag anything out of the jar. What it does do is stops air from entering the jar.

Are you now going to argue on how a pump works...? A pump is a pump, it's in your cars engine, in your swimming pool, there is even a pump in your chest. It's everywhere!

A pump doesn't stop anything, it moves gas and liquid.

Ok I think I see where you are getting confused.  Friction is the resistance to movement.  When you have resistance you have energy buildup.  Basically you are converting kinetic energy to disordered thermal energy.  As that thermal energy builds up the material heats up.  Thermal energy, or heat, is radiation.  Since thermal radiation spectrum range starts just below the visible spectrum, as the thermal radiation increases it eventually will become visible. This is not the same as saying the vibration is light.

I never said vibration is light. I said that everything vibrates at either a man made frequency or a natural frequency.  The vibrations that are created causes friction and the friction causes a sound and also the friction causes light to be created.
**
The radiation is at a frequency that is visible.  A chemical bond happens between the molecules of the two materials rubbing against each other to produce the friction and causes electrons on individual atoms to change their orbits. If the electron drops to a closer orbit it releases energy in the form of photons.  The photons are released from the atoms as radiation.  It all has to do with atomic charges down at that level.

I never mentioned the word photons because I'm not sure photons really exist. I simply like to think about light as electromagnetic or electron radiation.

Take an LED for instance, it is not light produced by heat.  Since a diode can be doped in a way to make it more receptive to excess electrons , when you force electrons into the material they take up the spaces left open.  The charge of this material is positive (actually its more like the absence of charge but we won't get into that) and the more negative charge you put in it the more photons are released when that excess of electrons (negative charge).  The more photons released, the more intense the light radiation. 
What I am saying is that light is radiation, whether caused by a buildup of energy through friction, current flow, nuclear reaction, etc. Sound is the actual movement of entire molecules in the air causing others to move out of their wave etc. etc.  Audible waves, Humans can hear ranges from 20 Hz to 20 kHz (I see Yendor didn't add the initial Hz in his description). ELF EM radiation is at 40 Hz.  I see that is between 20 Hz and 20kHz.  If your claim is true then we should be able to hear this EM frequency.  EM and audible waves are NOT the same thing, again end of story.

Have you ever been near ELF radiation? how do you know you can't hear it. Have you ever heard a 60 cycle hum in a radio because the filter caps were leaking in the audio section. I certainly have. Have you ever heard a florescent light hum? YES, audible frequency waves are no different then any other frequency wave and some EMF charts show audible frequency waves. If you look further back in this post you will see one. If an audible frequency wave is modulated or compressed at it's given frequency, (20 to 20Khz), then it will produce sound that humans can hear only if it causes enough air pressure to rattle a persons eardrum.

I know it is hard for you to understand since they use the same terminology for both, but they are not the same thing.  Sound is not the cause for light. 

I never said it was. Vibration causes friction and friction causes sound and light.

Now a vibration can produce but light and sound (there you go, you get it) but two different things are happening.  One is an energy release and the other is the compression wave through the medium of something like air reaching your ears.  A sound wave travels much slower due to it having to propagate through a medium than an energy wave, which requires no medium.  In fact, as I stated before, the more "stuff" light radiation has to pass through, the slower it travels.  The more "stuff" a sound wave has to go through the faster it travels (a caveat to this is that it still has to be able to form the compression wave through the material).  The reason for this increased speed through denser material is that the space between the individual molecules is less therefore each molecule pushing on the next has less distance to travel and if you have the same frequency (amount of waves per second) with less space to cover between, then it will actually pass through faster. 
Queue scepti calling this drivel, and Yendor trying to explain how I am misunderstanding his words.
No guys, light and sound are not the same thing.

I never said they were and I can't swear if Scepti did or did not, but I don't recall Scepti ever saying they were. I believe all we both ever did say was that everything has a natural frequency or an artificial frequency, meaning caused by man or something else. Then we said because of this frequency everything vibrates at this frequency. Because everything vibrates, it causes friction. Friction causes things to heat up, cause a sound and also causes light. We went on to say you may not see the light and you may not hear the sound or you may if the light is in you visual frequency spectrum and you may hear the sound if it is in your hearing frequency spectrum. I gave some simple examples of this. To my knowledge, this is it in a nut shell. Honestly I don't see how anyone can argue with this.

Hello mikey,
you are someone I'd like to respond to because I think you and I are on the same wave length, pardon the pun. I will underline some things you wrote above and then I will respond to them.
If I don't disagree or believe you could be correct, I will not respond.
 Please remember I'm only speaking for myself not Scepti too. I never said I absolutely agree with everything he says. Just most of what he says. Please Scepti, respond if you disagree with me in any way.

Scepti,
I don't want to sound mean, but I'm convinced some of the people on this forum, I'm not going to mention names, have a problem comprehending the english language or they simply are not reading what I put out. Trying to understand and keep up with their rebuttals are nerve racking and very confusing. what I wrote, as my opinion, was so easy to understand that a kid in elementary school should be able to understand it. I'm only human, if I wrote something that they don't understand or agree with, simply say so in a easy to understand question. These people would be terrible on a debate team.

It's like trying to tell a mechanic that the reason why the car won't start is because the battery lead is loose. The mechanic has the wiring harnesses hanging out and testers attached whilst going "la la la " to the person trying to tell him to tighten the lead.

Once you walk away after falling on deaf ears, the mechanic then goes and tightens the battery lead but tells all and sundry that it was a wiring harness fault. Basically they will never admit to simplicity because people don't think of them as smart if they don't make stuff look complicated.

Scepti, the fact that vacuum pumps don't suck is a generally accepted scientific fact and for most of us it's not new information.

Just because you pretend to kn ow it all does  not mean that people looking in will know it all and I'm all for helping them against people like you trying to muddy the waters of reality.

  The only things you said that is not scientifically accepted is that molecules expand and that light and sound are the same thing.

Which is why I'm trying to help people see the reality.

Here is a thought experiment that proves that vacuums are possible.  Imagine you take a container and empty out all but one atom of the air, and then you put in a divider separating the container into two isolated sections.  If the atom splits into two and is still air then by definition it isn't an atom, but if it picks one of the sections then the other one is a perfect vacuum.

How do you empty out all but one atom? Didn't you actually read any of what I said?

You don't just empty out a bag of balls and leave one loner in to bob about in nothing. This is why you people will never grasp reality. You refuse to because fantasy fits better for you for some reason.

Quote from: sceptimatic on August 12, 2015, 10:38:12 AM

When a pump is switched on, it appears to SUCK out the air inside the jar, right?
Now pay attention to what I'm saying. Seriously pay attention because I'm going to enlighten you as to why it doesn't suck at all nor does the pump drag anything out of the jar. In fact the pumps job is not to do anything inside that jar.

Bla Bla Bla
Bla Bla The pump does not suck or drag anything out of the jar. What it does do is stops air from entering the jar.

Are you now going to argue on how a pump works...? A pump is a pump, it's in your cars engine, in your swimming pool, there is even a pump in your chest. It's everywhere!

A pump doesn't stop anything, it moves gas and liquid.

You don't even know how a pump works. If you think you do, then explain it properly.

Just because you pretend to kn ow it all does  not mean that people looking in will know it all and I'm all for helping them against people like you trying to muddy the waters of reality.

Good point, physics misconceptions are a common thing.  It's certainly something you are guilty of.

Which is why I'm trying to help people see the reality.

It's not reality if it's not based on experimentation.  In my "explaining quantum mechanics to flat earthers" thread I explained experiments you could prove quantum mechanics yourself as I have.  If you are interested I know a thought experiment that proves quantum randomness and uncertainty given that time exists.

How do you empty out all but one atom? Didn't you actually read any of what I said?

You don't just empty out a bag of balls and leave one loner in to bob about in nothing. This is why you people will never grasp reality. You refuse to because fantasy fits better for you for some reason.

You turn on a vacuum pump.  Atoms in a gas clearly like to push away from each other so if you turn o na pump it will work until you are left with a small handful of particles.  Imagine that there are 100 particles and then you divide the area into 101 isolated segments.  At least one of them would have to be a perfect vacuum.

Wow, scepti; you're definitely onto something here.

Cos the Thought-Police are out in full force, spamming up seven shades of complete & utter shite in the hope they drown you out by the rank force of their collective effluence...

All of which is, of course, very LOL indeed!!!

Cos as a result, I - & any other perceptive neutral - will be keeping a close eye on this thread.

Good work, Shills, Scmucks & Herberts...

LMFAO - at counter-productive YOU!!!

P.s. STFU, 'mikeman'/markjo/et al: nobody wants to eat your greasy Spam fritters, ok?

  If you are interested I know a thought experiment that proves quantum randomness and uncertainty given that time exists.

I'm sure you can dream up a 'Thought Experiment' to prove any & every preposterous fantasy you care to crap out, you ridiculous popinjay.

Really - what is WRONG with you?

Oh, & also this:

Sceptimatic wrote:
Anyway folks: in that bell jar with the bell inside of it, the reason why you hear the bell before the pump is activated is because the atmospheric pressure inside of it is the same as outside of it and only seperated by the thickness of the actual jar itself.

Ok now I'm going to carefully go over this so the genuine lay people will understand it.
 For those who are not familiar with the bell jar vacuum, let's be absolutely clear that a vacuum does not and cannot exist, as in the removal of air pressure and I'll explain why.

When a pump is switched on, it appears to SUCK out the air inside the jar, right?
Now pay attention to what I'm saying. Seriously pay attention because I'm going to enlighten you as to why it doesn't suck at all nor does the pump drag anything out of the jar. In fact the pumps job is not to do anything inside that jar.

Huh? I hear you all shout.
You saw it correct. The pump does not suck or drag anything out of the jar. What it does do is stops air from entering the jar.

Now I'm starting to confuse you aren't I ?

Keep your eyes peeled and your basic common sense heads on because what's about to come will possibly change your whole aspect on not only this bell in a bell jar but space and all the rest of the crap told to you.

Ok so the pump is connected and you see the pipe and open/shut valve. Now as I explained...before you run that pump, you have a bell jar that is holding the same atmospheric pressure as outside, apart from the actual jar thickness itself that seperates the internal and external pressure.

You noticed I repeated myself, right?....good, I hope you have because this needs drumming into your heads as easy as possible and without mainstream bullshit added.

 Ok, so what exactly is the pump doing if it's not directly playing a part in the bell jar?
Well think of it like this. The pump is the night club bouncers employed to make sure no excess  air (people) gets back in once those doors (valve) are opened to let out the the air (people) inside who are compressed in that jar (nightclub).

So what is happening?
Well...the pump is pushing the air away from itself and as it does this, it means that the atmospheric air molecules which are under severe compression inside the jar can actually expand a little bit and in doing so some will squeeze out of the jar into the pipe.
Confused?
Ok back to the night club.
The bouncers (pump) are told to allow the people in the night club, out. The problem is there is a lot of people pushing against the door trying to get in.
The bouncers use all their energy to push against the inner doors of the night club and in doing so they push the people away who are trying to get in. As they do this, the people inside start to merge with the others, outside because they are managing to expand themselves more to push into the less compressed space the bouncers created.

The bouncers can only do so much to compress the outside crowd whilst allowing the inner crowd to decompress enough to create a less pressurised inner club, meaning the bouncers inside can actually move among them more freely because they are not under as much resistance, because all that extra resistance has been transferred to the outside.
Now if the Bouncers manage to close the doors tight shut (valve) they can keep it like this, except they know that the external pressure has built up and is pushing back with more force onto the doors which are strong enough to hold them back and allow the inner people to expand more freely meaning they do not apply anything like the compression on each other like they did before.

Ok so what this all means is, inside the bell jar the molecules are expanded but still attached like bubbles in a sink, except we cannot see them.
The bell inside that was ringing is not able to create a compressed wave enough to send the vibrations to our ear drums because the molecules are just too flimsy to respond.

Basically the tight as drums molecules under compression against a bell vibration have now turned into a mass of drums that are as soppy as trampoline fabric. Basically they absorb too much vibration and fade out before they move too far in a wave..

Seriously try and think about this, because if you do, you will also understand why water boils in this environment but doesn't actually heat boil, it simply expands in a big way to such an extent that it appears to boil like a kettle but then it starts to freeze. Why?

Because the expansion is such that the molecules start to expand to their max and can't expand much more, so they start to go dormant. they basically cannot force themselves out of the bell jar any more, so they simply stop agitating...or freezing, as you see happening.

I implore you all to seriously think about what I'm telling you because I've spent a while typing this out and I'm not doing it just for the frigging fun of it.

Ok, so why can light still go through this bell jar, low pressure environment?
It's because the external environment is all around it and can reflect through it because the jar still acts as the medium as well as expanded molecules.
We see the reflection/refraction as our eyes see the light waves as they are far far superior in picking up those waves.

So what about making a true vacuum in that bell jar?
If you think about it, you cannot do it because as I explained earlier under this atmospheric environment we live under, there has to be a force and that force always has to be an action and equal and opposite reaction.

Now , as I mentioned about the pump simply pushing back on atmosphere pushing against it and allowing the atmosphere inside the bell jar to expand and push itself out....there has to be an point inside the bell jar when the molecules can't push against each other with any energy, which means that all around the inner jar there  is an equal push of molecules that simply have no expansion left and simply stop trying to expand at all because they are too weak to get out.

To picture this, just imagine you and your friends being trapped in a massive container with a lid on. You are all whining and sweaty and squashed like babies in a womb but then someone pops that lid off meaning those at the top who's heads were pushed against that lid, managed to stand up and hop out ,leaving those below to stand up and get out...and so on  and so on , until all the people that are left are now fully expanded and upright and all they can do is stand on each other's shoulders up to the brim and also managing to outstretch their arms and hands horizontally to just touch the sides...yet that's the lot. None can push against the container anymore and have to hope the container holds up against the extra people that poured out and are not adding pressure externally, or the container collapses.

If it collapses, it no longer classifies as a container, so in effect you could say that the space no longer exists and is now a true vacuum, except that we all know it would make no real sense down here on land but it would make sense up above where the molecules are expanded and dormant as ice and the blackness that ice is against is in actual (possible) reality...what we would really term as a TRUE vacuum.
The absence of all matter that we see as the blackest black that cannot possess any light because it is the total absorbing of all the colour weaves of the spectrum...or quite simply...all light and vibration that makes it.

I fully expect a frenzy of shill like characters jumping on this. I fully expect a massive attempt at ridicule. This bothers me, none.
What I would be bothered about is seeing some really genuine people...those that have the ability to see the potential truth and are willing to try and understand what I'm saying.
Don't do it for me, do it for yourselves because you owe it to yourselves to free your own minds.

Thought-Police DENIED!!!

Everyone should make a copy of what Scepti wrote and study it. Maybe even frame it. I know I am.

Scepti, I use to work on air conditioners and when I had to open the system to the atmosphere, because I replaces a hose or something along those lines, I would always use a vacuum pump to evacuate the system before I added freon. I always thought I was removing air and moisture from the system because if I didn't it would freeze up. I'm I correct and that was in fact what I was doing?

Scepti, I use to work on air conditioners and when I had to open the system to the atmosphere, because I replaces a hose or something along those lines, I would always use a vacuum pump to evacuate the system before I added freon. I always thought I was removing air and moisture from the system because if I didn't it would freeze up. I'm I correct and that was in fact what I was doing?

In a way, that's what you are doing. Then the freon is replaced and your conditioner is back to doing  what it does best.

Oh, & also this:

Sceptimatic wrote:
Anyway folks: in that bell jar with the bell inside of it, the reason why you hear the bell before the pump is activated is because the atmospheric pressure inside of it is the same as outside of it and only seperated by the thickness of the actual jar itself.

Ok now I'm going to carefully go over this so the genuine lay people will understand it.
 For those who are not familiar with the bell jar vacuum, let's be absolutely clear that a vacuum does not and cannot exist, as in the removal of air pressure and I'll explain why.

When a pump is switched on, it appears to SUCK out the air inside the jar, right?
Now pay attention to what I'm saying. Seriously pay attention because I'm going to enlighten you as to why it doesn't suck at all nor does the pump drag anything out of the jar. In fact the pumps job is not to do anything inside that jar.

Huh? I hear you all shout.
You saw it correct. The pump does not suck or drag anything out of the jar. What it does do is stops air from entering the jar.

Now I'm starting to confuse you aren't I ?

Keep your eyes peeled and your basic common sense heads on because what's about to come will possibly change your whole aspect on not only this bell in a bell jar but space and all the rest of the crap told to you.

Ok so the pump is connected and you see the pipe and open/shut valve. Now as I explained...before you run that pump, you have a bell jar that is holding the same atmospheric pressure as outside, apart from the actual jar thickness itself that seperates the internal and external pressure.

You noticed I repeated myself, right?....good, I hope you have because this needs drumming into your heads as easy as possible and without mainstream bullshit added.

 Ok, so what exactly is the pump doing if it's not directly playing a part in the bell jar?
Well think of it like this. The pump is the night club bouncers employed to make sure no excess  air (people) gets back in once those doors (valve) are opened to let out the the air (people) inside who are compressed in that jar (nightclub).

So what is happening?
Well...the pump is pushing the air away from itself and as it does this, it means that the atmospheric air molecules which are under severe compression inside the jar can actually expand a little bit and in doing so some will squeeze out of the jar into the pipe.
Confused?
Ok back to the night club.
The bouncers (pump) are told to allow the people in the night club, out. The problem is there is a lot of people pushing against the door trying to get in.
The bouncers use all their energy to push against the inner doors of the night club and in doing so they push the people away who are trying to get in. As they do this, the people inside start to merge with the others, outside because they are managing to expand themselves more to push into the less compressed space the bouncers created.

The bouncers can only do so much to compress the outside crowd whilst allowing the inner crowd to decompress enough to create a less pressurised inner club, meaning the bouncers inside can actually move among them more freely because they are not under as much resistance, because all that extra resistance has been transferred to the outside.
Now if the Bouncers manage to close the doors tight shut (valve) they can keep it like this, except they know that the external pressure has built up and is pushing back with more force onto the doors which are strong enough to hold them back and allow the inner people to expand more freely meaning they do not apply anything like the compression on each other like they did before.

Ok so what this all means is, inside the bell jar the molecules are expanded but still attached like bubbles in a sink, except we cannot see them.
The bell inside that was ringing is not able to create a compressed wave enough to send the vibrations to our ear drums because the molecules are just too flimsy to respond.

Basically the tight as drums molecules under compression against a bell vibration have now turned into a mass of drums that are as soppy as trampoline fabric. Basically they absorb too much vibration and fade out before they move too far in a wave..

Seriously try and think about this, because if you do, you will also understand why water boils in this environment but doesn't actually heat boil, it simply expands in a big way to such an extent that it appears to boil like a kettle but then it starts to freeze. Why?

Because the expansion is such that the molecules start to expand to their max and can't expand much more, so they start to go dormant. they basically cannot force themselves out of the bell jar any more, so they simply stop agitating...or freezing, as you see happening.

I implore you all to seriously think about what I'm telling you because I've spent a while typing this out and I'm not doing it just for the frigging fun of it.

Ok, so why can light still go through this bell jar, low pressure environment?
It's because the external environment is all around it and can reflect through it because the jar still acts as the medium as well as expanded molecules.
We see the reflection/refraction as our eyes see the light waves as they are far far superior in picking up those waves.

So what about making a true vacuum in that bell jar?
If you think about it, you cannot do it because as I explained earlier under this atmospheric environment we live under, there has to be a force and that force always has to be an action and equal and opposite reaction.

Now , as I mentioned about the pump simply pushing back on atmosphere pushing against it and allowing the atmosphere inside the bell jar to expand and push itself out....there has to be an point inside the bell jar when the molecules can't push against each other with any energy, which means that all around the inner jar there  is an equal push of molecules that simply have no expansion left and simply stop trying to expand at all because they are too weak to get out.

To picture this, just imagine you and your friends being trapped in a massive container with a lid on. You are all whining and sweaty and squashed like babies in a womb but then someone pops that lid off meaning those at the top who's heads were pushed against that lid, managed to stand up and hop out ,leaving those below to stand up and get out...and so on  and so on , until all the people that are left are now fully expanded and upright and all they can do is stand on each other's shoulders up to the brim and also managing to outstretch their arms and hands horizontally to just touch the sides...yet that's the lot. None can push against the container anymore and have to hope the container holds up against the extra people that poured out and are not adding pressure externally, or the container collapses.

If it collapses, it no longer classifies as a container, so in effect you could say that the space no longer exists and is now a true vacuum, except that we all know it would make no real sense down here on land but it would make sense up above where the molecules are expanded and dormant as ice and the blackness that ice is against is in actual (possible) reality...what we would really term as a TRUE vacuum.
The absence of all matter that we see as the blackest black that cannot possess any light because it is the total absorbing of all the colour weaves of the spectrum...or quite simply...all light and vibration that makes it.

I fully expect a frenzy of shill like characters jumping on this. I fully expect a massive attempt at ridicule. This bothers me, none.
What I would be bothered about is seeing some really genuine people...those that have the ability to see the potential truth and are willing to try and understand what I'm saying.
Don't do it for me, do it for yourselves because you owe it to yourselves to free your own minds.

Thought-Police DENIED!!!

Hahahahahahahaha. I haven't read such funny fiction in a long time. Thanks for the laugh.

Quote from: mikeman7918 on August 12, 2015, 12:36:37 PM

  If you are interested I know a thought experiment that proves quantum randomness and uncertainty given that time exists.

I'm sure you can dream up a 'Thought Experiment' to prove any & every preposterous fantasy you care to crap out, you ridiculous popinjay.

Really - what is WRONG with you?

I used the term "thought experiment" loosely.  What I meant to say was that time is a direct consequence of quantum randomness and I can prove it:
http://www.theflatearthsociety.org/forum/index.php?topic=64257.0

Sock-arul; SOCK-arul. SOCK-arul; SOCK-arul; SOCK-arul; SOCK-arul; SOCK-arul...


lol.



& STFU 'mikeman'/markjo/m-people/etc: nobody cares what you meant or thought or said or anything at all, ever...

Because YOU DON'T EXIST FFS!!!

So just leave it out, disinfo thing...

Just LMFAO - at YOU!!!

I like you, sokarul because you are a massive help to the free thinking side. When people see you jump in with your spoiled kid like digs, they can see the dishonesty in you.
Your best friend, Mikeman plays the opposite of you. It's like angel and devil like games. Good cop bad cop. Mikeman plays the easy rider. Argue with him and he will still sit there memorising 80 packs of cards whilst being extremely pleasant butg you just can't help but wonder what's really on his mind. 
You on the other hand; you play the Yorkshire terrier that just loves to attack the gate in a nasty manner and barking long after the person's gone. Afraid that they will walk up your path and steal your milk biscuits and rubber chew sausage. 
Mikeman is playing the better card for duping the onlookers, because he's the one at the nut house who keeps a low profile but wants to help. The person who runs to fix nurse ratchet's car tyre so she can get home on a rainy night.... A person who displays a mild manner and a well spoken philosopher mindset that nurse ratchet falls for, only to tell mikeman that tomorrow she will let the warden know of his good deed and clear mild manner, plus rational mind as she pulls away, only for her back window to come crashing in with a huge brick hitting her  on the head, with mikeman standing there shouting "YOU WON'T FORGET TO TELL WARDEN, WILL YOU NURSE RATCHET?"   

Scepti; we're basically up against a day-shift & a night-shift here, all using the sane sock-puppets, or software-assisted managed personae.

The main purpose of these personae is to create the impression we're OUTNUMBERED.

Because perceived peer-pressure is a hugely powerful tool in influencing human behaviour.

But we are NOT outnumbered; quite the opposite, in fact...

This is why I laugh so much; cos I never buy into Lies, ever.

No matter how hard the 'M'-people try to make me do so...

Hmm.. 'M' for military; 'M' for maths...

LOL!!!

'M' for masquerade is closer...

Or 'M' for magic?

LMFAO - at YOU cultist scum!!!

Scepti; we're basically up against a day-shift & a night-shift here, all using the sane sock-puppets, or software-assisted managed personae.

The main purpose of these personae is to create the impression we're OUTNUMBERED.

Because perceived peer-pressure is a hugely powerful tool in influencing human behaviour.

But we are NOT outnumbered; quite the opposite, in fact...

This is why I laugh so much; cos I never buy into Lies, ever.

No matter how hard the 'M'-people try to make me do so...

Hmm.. 'M' for military; 'M' for maths...

LOL!!!

'M' for masquerade is closer...

Or 'M' for magic?

LMFAO - at YOU cultist scum!!!

Agreed. It makes no rational sense for so many people to oppose free thinkers and to simply parrot mainstream science.
It has to be like you say. It's one person per group of stringed puppets.     

Indeed; & to have so many beginning with tyhe letter 'M' is such sloppy field-work; really, markjo, you should be ashamed of yourself...

LOL!!!

LOL, proven troll!

"HA HAAA! THEY HAVE M!!!!!! TROLLS, ALTS!!!!"
Okay, I'm done with this. Going by your logic, you're an alt of Pavarotti.

I know what you guys mean. I'm going at it with a bunch on the general forum  right now. For a bunch of people who claim they know everything about everything, i'm discovering they know nothing about electronics. I show them proof with pictures and the still they don't grasp it. They all try to gang up and come up with dumb reasons why I'm wrong. when I first came to this site I was almost afraid to speak up because I thought all these people where so much smarter then me. Now I believe the REers are not so smart after all. They seem not to use their brain much and they only know what we were all taught in school. They like calling names and trying to humiliate people, but that to me is just a sign of weakness. God help us if all the physicists are dumb as these guys.

Yes Yendor I have been near an ELF broadcasting facility.  Go outside where you can still pick up the ELF signal at pretty much 99.9999% of the strength at the transmitter electronics itself and tell me you can hear the "hum".  You cannot.  Energy moving through a device can cause it to vibrate.  After all there is excess energy there and it has to go somewhere, some is dissipated as heat, some dissipated as kinetic, and the rest is used for the intended purpose.  The same thing is happening in a fluorescent light if the ballast is not close enough to perfectly efficient, none are.  But I would expect someone who designed electronics to understand this about electronic devices.  There is no such thing as an ideal device, there is always an efficiency loss and because you cannot just destroy energy it has to go somewhere.

I see you are saying you do not believe in photons, well if you do not understand those or the difference between energy and compression waves as I tried to describe, I guess there is no point in continuing this discussion. 
Yes I said that vibration could cause light and sound, yet you conveniently did not underline the remainder of the explanation where I said that two very different processes are involved.  There can be different effects from one action.  As I said, basically light is energy movement and sound is matter movement. 

As for the free thinking statements.  If I look at something, experiment with it, decide for myself how it works and it matches what the "mainstream" says, how is that being a sheep?  How is not disagreeing with what 99% of everyone else says not free thinking?  I call it the opposite in fact right now.  If you are just disagreeing and making things up to satisfy your need to be a rebel just for the sake of disagreeing, that is not free thinking.  That is being a slave to your mindset of everyone else must be lying. 
Being trained as an engineer, you are taught to test and question everything.  For example, if you are told this certain device reacts a certain way, you test it thoroughly before incorporating it into your design.  You build models of your design and test it, then you build prototypes of that design.  All of this is tested many many times over to ensure that it does what you want it to do.  You need to know why something fails to work as advertised, because if it isn't the device it is your design.  Also you need to know before hand what each device is going to do and why so you can design it properly.  You have a delicate balancing act you have to do when designing something, cost vs efficiency.  You could possibly design something to never fail but the cost may be overly prohibited.  So you have to actually think about how things work in the real world and then test it to find the best balance.   
Just to distrust is not free thinking.  Conspiracy nuts have been misusing this term forever.  Yeah you are conspiracy nuts.  If you question what is being said and find out that it is in fact true, you do not have to ignore what you found out because it is true.  Screaming think for yourself while ignoring anything that may disagree with you is not free thinking, that my friends is closed mindedness.  It is limiting yourself to never truly understanding anything other than what one guy on the internet said and because you want to distrust everyone else you latch on to what he said and try to prove him right, while ignoring all the signs of incorrectness just because it would mean that you agreed with the "establishment".  So go on touting your ignorance and patting yourselves on the back for "free thinking".  I will just continue to actually think freely and believe what my own experiences have taught me, even if they line up with what everyone else is already saying.
I will give you an example here of what free thinking is not.  I once described a mountain climbing trip I went on while on military leave with some of my family and a couple of military buddies.  I stated that we had to turn back before summiting due to health concerns with my father who was overusing his supplemental air.  I was called a liar by scepti because what I was saying disagreed with what his untested ideas were about how high you could climb in his failed model of a flat Earth using denpressure.  I think his theoretical limit was 18000 ft or so and we surpassed that by a few thousand.  Because it doesn't agree with what he thinks is possible then I must be lying.  How is that free thinking?  That is just closing your mind to the fact that you may be wrong by trying to discredit anything you do not agree with.  That is closed mindedness at its finest.  There are many more examples like this on this forum board.  Anyone not towing the FE line are either sheep or paid shills.  "Oh no you cannot believe them, they are saying something that doesn't agree with my model and you should absolutely believe me because I am saying something against the rest of the rest of the worlds stance."  This is the mindset of pretty much anyone here that is not just here trolling for fun.

Hark ye,children ,to sceptimatic's wisdom.

Listen to the words that bring wisdom.
Cant you see that truth exists in the very above sentence?

Cant you see that words are sound, are vibrations that bring to you light (wisdom).

Cant you see that  light is brought by sound?

Sound is the carrier of light.
Light is the external manifestated power of  sound.

We are carriers of light .We are vibrations that fill cosmos with light.
We are vibrations that carry the olympic torch .
Cant you see that everything is a symbol?

Genuine question: in the bell jar vacuum experiment, why does a candle go out and a mouse die if there is still air in the bell jar, is it to do with pressure ?

I know what you guys mean. I'm going at it with a bunch on the general forum  right now. For a bunch of people who claim they know everything about everything, i'm discovering they know nothing about electronics. I show them proof with pictures and the still they don't grasp it. They all try to gang up and come up with dumb reasons why I'm wrong. when I first came to this site I was almost afraid to speak up because I thought all these people where so much smarter then me. Now I believe the REers are not so smart after all. They seem not to use their brain much and they only know what we were all taught in school. They like calling names and trying to humiliate people, but that to me is just a sign of weakness. God help us if all the physicists are dumb as these guys.

You know, Yendor...it's a simple case of intimidation by mass opinion. It takes a smart person to go up against it and not crack.

The classic example of parrots, parroting the same type of words. Let's be clear on this. If you can stamp your foot at a closing down sale queue consisting of many of these people...the so called smart, rational people...you create bedlam. You create a mass hair pulling and eye poking free for all...then guess what happens?

Once these people have had their frenzy and got what they wanted, they turn the tables and blame the real smart people. Those who chose not to kick a woman in the face to relieve her of her toaster or TV.

The intimidators' get to intimidate and gain on the minority, because of one thing and one thing only. That thing is called unconditional support of the official way. To see that it's done. To follow protocol. To never question what's been fed unless invited to.
For that they get to be called "scientists."

Go and try to talk to a scientist and dare to question just one thing. Ask about that one thing and you'll see a forehead elevation and a smile come at you. Go into questioning mode and that forehead becomes crinkled and then you are labelled a nutcase.
Get irate over it and you are labelled irrational and unstable and should be locked up. If they become irate, it because we provoked them and demeaned their work, which deserves a punch in the face, LEGALLY. Hit back and your next attempt is from a cocoon of a straight jacket. 

Intimidation by mass. If the masses aren't there. "Invent them," as Papa said.

I admire those that dare to say what's on their mind and to fight their own corner and believe in what they're saying against that intimidation technique.
Fight fire with fire but always stay burning with energy. Be that candle on the cake that just won't blow out no matter how many people try to blow on it. Do this and you render most of them mute and in time, some of them actually using their own brains without looking up at the masses for acknowledgement.

We all know we are being bullshitted in many things. We actually really know it. It's not a loop the loop  set of tin foil hat conspiracies.
The people who throw the ridiculous theories at us all aren't chuckling at us. They are chuckling at those that unconditionally believe it all. They are sat there (probably  right now) just taking turns in thinking up the most preposterous garbage and taking turns to spew it out to see how far human gullibility can stretch.

We are being played for our bodies and minds.

Genuine question: in the bell jar vacuum experiment, why does a candle go out and a mouse die if there is still air in the bell jar, is it to do with pressure ?

Our bodies are alive because we fight against compression. We are a vibrating energy source like all living things. We resist atmospheric pressure. We resist being crushed.
Our body molecules/matter are all compressed, including the atmosphere we take into our lungs.
Take away some of that pressure and our bodies have to adapt to it, meaning our bodies expand because the compression has lessened...just like in a bell jar.
Take too much pressure out too quickly and you will not acclimatise, which means death.

A candle goes out because it burns hydrogen and other elements that are trapped within it. the hydrogen is fast tracked into the atmosphere as a massive expansion friction burn = vibration= heat and light.
Place that candle inside a bell jar and you quickly expand that hydrogen, etc elements into the jar which pushes out air by expansion, leaving nothing for  the force of friction to create what you see as a flame...which is actually just a loose friction glow, anyway.

Use your mind and you will grasp it all, slowly but surely.

Think of it in terms of heart function.
When death occurs?It occurs when the heart stopsits beating(and with the heart the lung function
is being stopped because breathing power comes from the heart)

When heart stops its pump,that means it stops its resistance power,because what heart does is
being in a continuous state of pushing .
Heart pushes and is being pushed in a continuous pressure and when it cant push anymore
the body dies.
The body lives on resistance and when the heart cant resist,physical death occurs.