A lie 9+ years in the making

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A lie 9+ years in the making
« on: July 14, 2015, 03:08:52 AM »
New Horizons is on its closest approach to Pluto and its moons. Why would anyone spend 9+ years to create a such elaborate lie? Why would anyone lie about Pluto's distance of 3 billion miles from Earth? Why would lie about a spacecraft that can only travel that distance in 9.5 years?

20th Jan 2006: http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/sci/tech/4629486.stm
14th Jul 2015: http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/science-environment-33517532
Its position: http://www.livecometdata.com/new-horizons-spacecraft/

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sceptimatic

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Re: A lie 9+ years in the making
« Reply #1 on: July 14, 2015, 03:20:25 AM »
9 years is extremely young for a lie. The moon landing lie has been going on for nearly 50 years. That's just one of many things in life that's been ongoing in lies.
Nukes. Mars rover in the 70's. The list is endless and the lies get older and older.

Re: A lie 9+ years in the making
« Reply #2 on: July 14, 2015, 03:36:14 AM »
I don't think you are getting my point scepti. If NASA had lied about sending a probe to Pluto, why would they have waited 9.5 years after the actual launch to tell everyone that the probe finally reaches Pluto.
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sceptimatic

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Re: A lie 9+ years in the making
« Reply #3 on: July 14, 2015, 04:07:16 AM »
I don't think you are getting my point scepti. If NASA had lied about sending a probe to Pluto, why would they have waited 9.5 years after the actual launch to tell everyone that the probe finally reaches Pluto.
If I wanted to lie to you about telling you that my friend set off from my home to walk around the world and end up back at my door but did this feat by walking on his hands which consisted of not only ascending hills and what not, but also walking onto barges and into tunnels and all things needed to achieve this, then I can't tell people I've set him off then the next day tell them he's done it. Right?

I'd have to calculate a load of bullshit up that made enough calculable sense to those wishing to do the math, so that whatever time it took by fictionally calculating the distance and his average speed, I can then shout out (in maybe 9 years) that the man has achieved the goal set out.

Now someone like me would pipe up with, " oh yeah, sure he's done this. what a crock of crap."  You would tell everyone that he has done it because it's took him so long and it makes sense for it to take him that long. So there you are. It's all true.

Come of for crying out loud. Are you really that effing naive?  ::)

Re: A lie 9+ years in the making
« Reply #4 on: July 14, 2015, 04:25:02 AM »
I'd have to calculate a load of bullshit up that made enough calculable sense to those wishing to do the math, so that whatever time it took by fictionally calculating the distance and his average speed, I can then shout out (in maybe 9 years) that the man has achieved the goal set out.

The difference between walking around the world and flying to Pluto is that you can easily lie about the distance to Pluto and how fast a spacecraft can be. So why 3 billion miles in 9.5 years? It could have been 3 billion miles in one year, anyway they could have as well made up a very fast spacecraft or 300 million miles in one year if they had lied about the distance. 9.5 years is a very long waiting game for everyone, some like Venetia Burney, who witnessed the launch did not even make it to see the arrival of the probe.
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Re: A lie 9+ years in the making
« Reply #5 on: July 14, 2015, 04:28:23 AM »
I don't think you are getting my point scepti. If NASA had lied about sending a probe to Pluto, why would they have waited 9.5 years after the actual launch to tell everyone that the probe finally reaches Pluto.
If I wanted to lie to you about telling you that my friend set off from my home to walk around the world and end up back at my door but did this feat by walking on his hands which consisted of not only ascending hills and what not, but also walking onto barges and into tunnels and all things needed to achieve this, then I can't tell people I've set him off then the next day tell them he's done it. Right?

I'd have to calculate a load of bullshit up that made enough calculable sense to those wishing to do the math, so that whatever time it took by fictionally calculating the distance and his average speed, I can then shout out (in maybe 9 years) that the man has achieved the goal set out.

Now someone like me would pipe up with, " oh yeah, sure he's done this. what a crock of crap."  You would tell everyone that he has done it because it's took him so long and it makes sense for it to take him that long. So there you are. It's all true.

Come of for crying out loud. Are you really that effing naive?  ::)

But why would you start the story in the first place?
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sceptimatic

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Re: A lie 9+ years in the making
« Reply #6 on: July 14, 2015, 04:53:02 AM »
I'd have to calculate a load of bullshit up that made enough calculable sense to those wishing to do the math, so that whatever time it took by fictionally calculating the distance and his average speed, I can then shout out (in maybe 9 years) that the man has achieved the goal set out.

The difference between walking around the world and flying to Pluto is that you can easily lie about the distance to Pluto and how fast a spacecraft can be. So why 3 billion miles in 9.5 years? It could have been 3 billion miles in one year, anyway they could have as well made up a very fast spacecraft or 300 million miles in one year if they had lied about the distance. 9.5 years is a very long waiting game for everyone, some like Venetia Burney, who witnessed the launch did not even make it to see the arrival of the probe.
If I want to spin you lies for a long time and amaze you at the same time, I have to play the game carefully.
In time the distances traveled will get faster and shorter, just like the man walking around the world on his hands.
The next time he does something, we add rubber palm pads and then springs and so on so we can knock off so much time.

In your space, they will invent hyper drives and all kids of bollocks that will have mars trips as good as going to the shops, just as soon as they get the Hollywood effects believable for the viewing audience.

Make the distances further away so people cannot challenge it with any authority.
Piss easy to pull off for these people.
Let's face it. In this day and age when people can see the moon landing shit for what it was, the likes of you are gripped to it like a frigging limpet as being 100% true.
If you're going to believe that in this day and age then you'll believe they went to pluto in an inflatable dingy and snorkelling gear.

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sceptimatic

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Re: A lie 9+ years in the making
« Reply #7 on: July 14, 2015, 04:54:23 AM »
I don't think you are getting my point scepti. If NASA had lied about sending a probe to Pluto, why would they have waited 9.5 years after the actual launch to tell everyone that the probe finally reaches Pluto.
If I wanted to lie to you about telling you that my friend set off from my home to walk around the world and end up back at my door but did this feat by walking on his hands which consisted of not only ascending hills and what not, but also walking onto barges and into tunnels and all things needed to achieve this, then I can't tell people I've set him off then the next day tell them he's done it. Right?

I'd have to calculate a load of bullshit up that made enough calculable sense to those wishing to do the math, so that whatever time it took by fictionally calculating the distance and his average speed, I can then shout out (in maybe 9 years) that the man has achieved the goal set out.

Now someone like me would pipe up with, " oh yeah, sure he's done this. what a crock of crap."  You would tell everyone that he has done it because it's took him so long and it makes sense for it to take him that long. So there you are. It's all true.

Come of for crying out loud. Are you really that effing naive?  ::)

But why would you start the story in the first place?
Why does anyone lie?

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Misero

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Re: A lie 9+ years in the making
« Reply #8 on: July 14, 2015, 05:14:40 AM »
YOU NEED TO PROVIDE EVIDENCE OF A CONSPIRACY OR IT CAN BE DISPROVEN WITHOUT EVIDENCE

Is that enough for you to notice?
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Re: A lie 9+ years in the making
« Reply #9 on: July 14, 2015, 05:23:47 AM »
I don't think you are getting my point scepti. If NASA had lied about sending a probe to Pluto, why would they have waited 9.5 years after the actual launch to tell everyone that the probe finally reaches Pluto.
If I wanted to lie to you about telling you that my friend set off from my home to walk around the world and end up back at my door but did this feat by walking on his hands which consisted of not only ascending hills and what not, but also walking onto barges and into tunnels and all things needed to achieve this, then I can't tell people I've set him off then the next day tell them he's done it. Right?

I'd have to calculate a load of bullshit up that made enough calculable sense to those wishing to do the math, so that whatever time it took by fictionally calculating the distance and his average speed, I can then shout out (in maybe 9 years) that the man has achieved the goal set out.

Now someone like me would pipe up with, " oh yeah, sure he's done this. what a crock of crap."  You would tell everyone that he has done it because it's took him so long and it makes sense for it to take him that long. So there you are. It's all true.

Come of for crying out loud. Are you really that effing naive?  ::)

But why would you start the story in the first place?
Why does anyone lie?
That doesn't answer the question, it just avoids it.  Why did they tell this particular lie?
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Re: A lie 9+ years in the making
« Reply #10 on: July 14, 2015, 07:24:44 AM »
If I want to spin you lies for a long time and amaze you at the same time, I have to play the game carefully.
In time the distances traveled will get faster and shorter, just like the man walking around the world on his hands.
The next time he does something, we add rubber palm pads and then springs and so on so we can knock off so much time.

In your space, they will invent hyper drives and all kids of bollocks that will have mars trips as good as going to the shops, just as soon as they get the Hollywood effects believable for the viewing audience.

Make the distances further away so people cannot challenge it with any authority.
Piss easy to pull off for these people.
Let's face it. In this day and age when people can see the moon landing shit for what it was, the likes of you are gripped to it like a frigging limpet as being 100% true.
If you're going to believe that in this day and age then you'll believe they went to pluto in an inflatable dingy and snorkelling gear.

Writing longer doesn't mean it will make more sense. You still don't make any sense. If they can lie about everything that everyone would grip to it like a frigging limpet as being 100% true then why would they take 9.5 years to finish your lie? It just doesn't make any sense at all.
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hoppy

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Re: A lie 9+ years in the making
« Reply #11 on: July 14, 2015, 07:37:44 AM »
I don't think you are getting my point scepti. If NASA had lied about sending a probe to Pluto, why would they have waited 9.5 years after the actual launch to tell everyone that the probe finally reaches Pluto.
If I wanted to lie to you about telling you that my friend set off from my home to walk around the world and end up back at my door but did this feat by walking on his hands which consisted of not only ascending hills and what not, but also walking onto barges and into tunnels and all things needed to achieve this, then I can't tell people I've set him off then the next day tell them he's done it. Right?

I'd have to calculate a load of bullshit up that made enough calculable sense to those wishing to do the math, so that whatever time it took by fictionally calculating the distance and his average speed, I can then shout out (in maybe 9 years) that the man has achieved the goal set out.

Now someone like me would pipe up with, " oh yeah, sure he's done this. what a crock of crap."  You would tell everyone that he has done it because it's took him so long and it makes sense for it to take him that long. So there you are. It's all true.

Come of for crying out loud. Are you really that effing naive?  ::)

But why would you start the story in the first place?
Why does anyone lie?
That doesn't answer the question, it just avoids it.  Why did they tell this particular lie?
This lie is a continuation of all the space travel lies. One lie piled on top of another. The reason is to keep you amazed and baffled, to keep you unaware of the very ground you walk on. You think you are flying through space at unimaginable speeds, actually you are planted on an unmovable earth.
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legion

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Re: A lie 9+ years in the making
« Reply #12 on: July 14, 2015, 12:17:53 PM »
YOU NEED TO PROVIDE EVIDENCE OF A CONSPIRACY OR IT CAN BE DISPROVEN WITHOUT EVIDENCE

Is that enough for you to notice?

MISERO: THAT IS THE BURDEN OF PROOF FALLACY. DO YOU UNDERSTAND?
"Indoctrination [...] is often distinguished from education by the fact that the indoctrinated person is expected not to question or critically examine the doctrine they have learned".

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legion

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Re: A lie 9+ years in the making
« Reply #13 on: July 14, 2015, 12:22:08 PM »
New Horizons is on its closest approach to Pluto and its moons. Why would anyone spend 9+ years to create a such elaborate lie? Why would anyone lie about Pluto's distance of 3 billion miles from Earth? Why would lie about a spacecraft that can only travel that distance in 9.5 years?

20th Jan 2006: http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/sci/tech/4629486.stm
14th Jul 2015: http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/science-environment-33517532
Its position: http://www.livecometdata.com/new-horizons-spacecraft/

Argument from incredulity fallacy. You cannot imagine why they would lie about this, so therefore it must be true? That doesn't wash around here, flatorange.
"Indoctrination [...] is often distinguished from education by the fact that the indoctrinated person is expected not to question or critically examine the doctrine they have learned".

Re: A lie 9+ years in the making
« Reply #14 on: July 14, 2015, 12:27:28 PM »
I doubt logic changes substantially over time. The burden of proof is not a fallacy. Saying that the other person has the burden of proof is, if true, an entirely valid statement.
If you are claiming that something is, then you do have the burden of proof, no fallacy involved.

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legion

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Re: A lie 9+ years in the making
« Reply #15 on: July 14, 2015, 01:02:30 PM »
I doubt logic changes substantially over time. The burden of proof is not a fallacy. Saying that the other person has the burden of proof is, if true, an entirely valid statement.
If you are claiming that something is, then you do have the burden of proof, no fallacy involved.

johntitor, read the following and then ask yourself can anyone disprove the claims that nasa makes? Substitue 'probe' for 'teapot', if that helps.

Quote
Russell's teapot, sometimes called the celestial teapot or cosmic teapot, is an analogy first coined by the philosopher Bertrand Russell (1872–1970) to illustrate that the philosophic burden of proof lies upon a person making scientifically unfalsifiable claims rather than shifting the burden of proof to others, specifically in the case of religion. Russell wrote that if he claims that a teapot orbits the Sun somewhere in space between the Earth and Mars, it is nonsensical for him to expect others to believe him on the grounds that they cannot prove him wrong. Russell's teapot is still referred to in discussions concerning the existence of God.

miseros claim was fallacious: "YOU NEED TO PROVIDE EVIDENCE OF A CONSPIRACY OR IT CAN BE DISPROVEN WITHOUT EVIDENCE."
"Indoctrination [...] is often distinguished from education by the fact that the indoctrinated person is expected not to question or critically examine the doctrine they have learned".

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Misero

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Re: A lie 9+ years in the making
« Reply #16 on: July 14, 2015, 01:47:47 PM »
YOU NEED TO PROVIDE EVIDENCE OF A CONSPIRACY OR IT CAN BE DISPROVEN WITHOUT EVIDENCE

Is that enough for you to notice?

MISERO: THAT IS THE BURDEN OF PROOF FALLACY. DO YOU UNDERSTAND?

So you are claiming something without evidence, and I must prove it wrong with evidence?
Logic at it's finest.
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mikeman7918

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Re: A lie 9+ years in the making
« Reply #17 on: July 14, 2015, 02:02:37 PM »
I doubt logic changes substantially over time. The burden of proof is not a fallacy. Saying that the other person has the burden of proof is, if true, an entirely valid statement.
If you are claiming that something is, then you do have the burden of proof, no fallacy involved.

John, this is a great chance to prove that you are a time traveler.  Tell us what the New Horizons probe will find.
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Rayzor

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Re: A lie 9+ years in the making
« Reply #18 on: July 14, 2015, 06:10:03 PM »
I doubt logic changes substantially over time. The burden of proof is not a fallacy. Saying that the other person has the burden of proof is, if true, an entirely valid statement.
If you are claiming that something is, then you do have the burden of proof, no fallacy involved.

johntitor, read the following and then ask yourself can anyone disprove the claims that nasa makes? Substitue 'probe' for 'teapot', if that helps.

Quote
Russell's teapot, sometimes called the celestial teapot or cosmic teapot, is an analogy first coined by the philosopher Bertrand Russell (1872–1970) to illustrate that the philosophic burden of proof lies upon a person making scientifically unfalsifiable claims rather than shifting the burden of proof to others, specifically in the case of religion. Russell wrote that if he claims that a teapot orbits the Sun somewhere in space between the Earth and Mars, it is nonsensical for him to expect others to believe him on the grounds that they cannot prove him wrong. Russell's teapot is still referred to in discussions concerning the existence of God.

miseros claim was fallacious: "YOU NEED TO PROVIDE EVIDENCE OF A CONSPIRACY OR IT CAN BE DISPROVEN WITHOUT EVIDENCE."

Here's the evidence disproving the conspiracy.   First ever closeup look at Pluto,  before the flyby.  an amazing achievment.   



The conspiracy is a figment in the imagination of a vanishingly small number of paranoid delusional nutters.

PS.   Maybe there is a flat pluto society somewhere,  that just went into denial mode.  ;D
« Last Edit: July 14, 2015, 06:12:13 PM by Rayzor »
Stop gilding the pickle, you demisexual aromantic homoflexible snowflake.

Re: A lie 9+ years in the making
« Reply #19 on: July 14, 2015, 06:20:55 PM »
I don't think you are getting my point scepti. If NASA had lied about sending a probe to Pluto, why would they have waited 9.5 years after the actual launch to tell everyone that the probe finally reaches Pluto.
If I wanted to lie to you about telling you that my friend set off from my home to walk around the world and end up back at my door but did this feat by walking on his hands which consisted of not only ascending hills and what not, but also walking onto barges and into tunnels and all things needed to achieve this, then I can't tell people I've set him off then the next day tell them he's done it. Right?

I'd have to calculate a load of bullshit up that made enough calculable sense to those wishing to do the math, so that whatever time it took by fictionally calculating the distance and his average speed, I can then shout out (in maybe 9 years) that the man has achieved the goal set out.

Now someone like me would pipe up with, " oh yeah, sure he's done this. what a crock of crap."  You would tell everyone that he has done it because it's took him so long and it makes sense for it to take him that long. So there you are. It's all true.

Come of for crying out loud. Are you really that effing naive?  ::)

But why would you start the story in the first place?
Why does anyone lie?
That doesn't answer the question, it just avoids it.  Why did they tell this particular lie?
This lie is a continuation of all the space travel lies. One lie piled on top of another. The reason is to keep you amazed and baffled, to keep you unaware of the very ground you walk on. You think you are flying through space at unimaginable speeds, actually you are planted on an unmovable earth.

I bet if you ask any 100 people what the New Horizons Probe is, less than 10 of them would have the faintest idea. An awful lot of effort for very little payback.
I'm no rocket scientist, but at least I know the Earth is round, Man went to the Moon, and air exists.

“Extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence.” Carl Sagan

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Heiwa

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Re: A lie 9+ years in the making
« Reply #20 on: July 14, 2015, 07:48:36 PM »
This lie is a continuation of all the space travel lies. One lie piled on top of another. The reason is to keep you amazed and baffled, to keep you unaware of the very ground you walk on. You think you are flying through space at unimaginable speeds, actually you are planted on an unmovable earth.

Sounds reasonable to me. Only brainwashed twirps believe in space travel anyway.

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kman

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Re: A lie 9+ years in the making
« Reply #21 on: July 14, 2015, 09:53:03 PM »
This lie is a continuation of all the space travel lies. One lie piled on top of another. The reason is to keep you amazed and baffled, to keep you unaware of the very ground you walk on. You think you are flying through space at unimaginable speeds, actually you are planted on an unmovable earth.

Sounds reasonable to me. Only brainwashed twirps believe in space travel anyway.

You believe that the majority of people brainwashed "twirps"? How stuck up.
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Re: A lie 9+ years in the making
« Reply #22 on: July 15, 2015, 02:17:33 AM »
Below is what New Horizons captured in June 2015 (last month). The pictures look very blurry. Is this what "Hollywood" could do best?



They could have done something as sharp as below (which is a CGI version):



Get real.
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hoppy

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Re: A lie 9+ years in the making
« Reply #23 on: July 15, 2015, 10:39:08 AM »
Come on man. That is not the best they can do. They could have shown you better pictures if they wanted to. The pictures should be better if they were taken from space. For whatever reason, this is the best lie they chose to tell you. You and he world should be amazed at their exploits. Me, I'm not impressed whatsoever, it's total bs.
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mikeman7918

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Re: A lie 9+ years in the making
« Reply #24 on: July 15, 2015, 10:58:28 AM »
The pictures should be better if they were taken from space.

The probe was tens of millions of miles away from Pluto at the time, so it makes sense that they have the quality that they do.
I am having a video war with Jeranism.
See the thread about it here.

Re: A lie 9+ years in the making
« Reply #25 on: July 15, 2015, 01:11:11 PM »
I don't think you are getting my point scepti. If NASA had lied about sending a probe to Pluto, why would they have waited 9.5 years after the actual launch to tell everyone that the probe finally reaches Pluto.
If I wanted to lie to you about telling you that my friend set off from my home to walk around the world and end up back at my door but did this feat by walking on his hands which consisted of not only ascending hills and what not, but also walking onto barges and into tunnels and all things needed to achieve this, then I can't tell people I've set him off then the next day tell them he's done it. Right?

I'd have to calculate a load of bullshit up that made enough calculable sense to those wishing to do the math, so that whatever time it took by fictionally calculating the distance and his average speed, I can then shout out (in maybe 9 years) that the man has achieved the goal set out.

Now someone like me would pipe up with, " oh yeah, sure he's done this. what a crock of crap."  You would tell everyone that he has done it because it's took him so long and it makes sense for it to take him that long. So there you are. It's all true.

Come of for crying out loud. Are you really that effing naive?  ::)

But why would you start the story in the first place?
Why does anyone lie?
That doesn't answer the question, it just avoids it.  Why did they tell this particular lie?
This lie is a continuation of all the space travel lies. One lie piled on top of another. The reason is to keep you amazed and baffled, to keep you unaware of the very ground you walk on. You think you are flying through space at unimaginable speeds, actually you are planted on an unmovable earth.

I bet if you ask any 100 people what the New Horizons Probe is, less than 10 of them would have the faintest idea. An awful lot of effort for very little payback.

This is so true. Less than 10% would have any idea of what it is and even lesser would care for what it does.
I think, therefore I am

Re: A lie 9+ years in the making
« Reply #26 on: July 15, 2015, 01:14:17 PM »
The pictures should be better if they were taken from space.

Are you saying you believe in space travel?
I think, therefore I am

Re: A lie 9+ years in the making
« Reply #27 on: July 15, 2015, 01:18:29 PM »
After 9+ years of waiting, here's the first close up picture of Pluto!



9 years for just a boring mountainous landscape? Come on dudes. Wake up!

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tappet

  • 2162
Re: A lie 9+ years in the making
« Reply #28 on: July 15, 2015, 01:39:35 PM »
After 9+ years of waiting, here's the first close up picture of Pluto!



9 years for just a boring mountainous landscape? Come on dudes. Wake up!
What now, we can not even go to the moon.
So when is Gunnar going Pluto with the non for profit Pluto One.

Re: A lie 9+ years in the making
« Reply #29 on: July 15, 2015, 02:46:41 PM »
I don't think you are getting my point scepti. If NASA had lied about sending a probe to Pluto, why would they have waited 9.5 years after the actual launch to tell everyone that the probe finally reaches Pluto.
If I wanted to lie to you about telling you that my friend set off from my home to walk around the world and end up back at my door but did this feat by walking on his hands which consisted of not only ascending hills and what not, but also walking onto barges and into tunnels and all things needed to achieve this, then I can't tell people I've set him off then the next day tell them he's done it. Right?

I'd have to calculate a load of bullshit up that made enough calculable sense to those wishing to do the math, so that whatever time it took by fictionally calculating the distance and his average speed, I can then shout out (in maybe 9 years) that the man has achieved the goal set out.

Now someone like me would pipe up with, " oh yeah, sure he's done this. what a crock of crap."  You would tell everyone that he has done it because it's took him so long and it makes sense for it to take him that long. So there you are. It's all true.

Come of for crying out loud. Are you really that effing naive?  ::)

But why would you start the story in the first place?
Why does anyone lie?
That doesn't answer the question, it just avoids it.  Why did they tell this particular lie?
This lie is a continuation of all the space travel lies. One lie piled on top of another. The reason is to keep you amazed and baffled, to keep you unaware of the very ground you walk on. You think you are flying through space at unimaginable speeds, actually you are planted on an unmovable earth.

I bet if you ask any 100 people what the New Horizons Probe is, less than 10 of them would have the faintest idea. An awful lot of effort for very little payback.

This is so true. Less than 10% would have any idea of what it is and even lesser would care for what it does.

Exactly. So why make this up??? Nine years of painstaking details. All that work for something pretty darn obscure. Who would care?
I'm no rocket scientist, but at least I know the Earth is round, Man went to the Moon, and air exists.

“Extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence.” Carl Sagan