A lie 9+ years in the making

I don't think you are getting my point scepti. If NASA had lied about sending a probe to Pluto, why would they have waited 9.5 years after the actual launch to tell everyone that the probe finally reaches Pluto.

I'd have to calculate a load of bullshit up that made enough calculable sense to those wishing to do the math, so that whatever time it took by fictionally calculating the distance and his average speed, I can then shout out (in maybe 9 years) that the man has achieved the goal set out.

Quote from: Cartesian on July 14, 2015, 03:36:14 AM

I don't think you are getting my point scepti. If NASA had lied about sending a probe to Pluto, why would they have waited 9.5 years after the actual launch to tell everyone that the probe finally reaches Pluto.

If I wanted to lie to you about telling you that my friend set off from my home to walk around the world and end up back at my door but did this feat by walking on his hands which consisted of not only ascending hills and what not, but also walking onto barges and into tunnels and all things needed to achieve this, then I can't tell people I've set him off then the next day tell them he's done it. Right?

I'd have to calculate a load of bullshit up that made enough calculable sense to those wishing to do the math, so that whatever time it took by fictionally calculating the distance and his average speed, I can then shout out (in maybe 9 years) that the man has achieved the goal set out.

Now someone like me would pipe up with, " oh yeah, sure he's done this. what a crock of crap."  You would tell everyone that he has done it because it's took him so long and it makes sense for it to take him that long. So there you are. It's all true.

Come of for crying out loud. Are you really that effing naive? 

Quote from: sceptimatic on July 14, 2015, 04:07:16 AM

I'd have to calculate a load of bullshit up that made enough calculable sense to those wishing to do the math, so that whatever time it took by fictionally calculating the distance and his average speed, I can then shout out (in maybe 9 years) that the man has achieved the goal set out.

The difference between walking around the world and flying to Pluto is that you can easily lie about the distance to Pluto and how fast a spacecraft can be. So why 3 billion miles in 9.5 years? It could have been 3 billion miles in one year, anyway they could have as well made up a very fast spacecraft or 300 million miles in one year if they had lied about the distance. 9.5 years is a very long waiting game for everyone, some like Venetia Burney, who witnessed the launch did not even make it to see the arrival of the probe.

Quote from: sceptimatic on July 14, 2015, 04:07:16 AM

Quote from: Cartesian on July 14, 2015, 03:36:14 AM

I don't think you are getting my point scepti. If NASA had lied about sending a probe to Pluto, why would they have waited 9.5 years after the actual launch to tell everyone that the probe finally reaches Pluto.

If I wanted to lie to you about telling you that my friend set off from my home to walk around the world and end up back at my door but did this feat by walking on his hands which consisted of not only ascending hills and what not, but also walking onto barges and into tunnels and all things needed to achieve this, then I can't tell people I've set him off then the next day tell them he's done it. Right?

I'd have to calculate a load of bullshit up that made enough calculable sense to those wishing to do the math, so that whatever time it took by fictionally calculating the distance and his average speed, I can then shout out (in maybe 9 years) that the man has achieved the goal set out.

Now someone like me would pipe up with, " oh yeah, sure he's done this. what a crock of crap."  You would tell everyone that he has done it because it's took him so long and it makes sense for it to take him that long. So there you are. It's all true.

Come of for crying out loud. Are you really that effing naive? 

But why would you start the story in the first place?

Quote from: Doglover on July 14, 2015, 04:28:23 AM

Quote from: sceptimatic on July 14, 2015, 04:07:16 AM

Quote from: Cartesian on July 14, 2015, 03:36:14 AM

I don't think you are getting my point scepti. If NASA had lied about sending a probe to Pluto, why would they have waited 9.5 years after the actual launch to tell everyone that the probe finally reaches Pluto.

If I wanted to lie to you about telling you that my friend set off from my home to walk around the world and end up back at my door but did this feat by walking on his hands which consisted of not only ascending hills and what not, but also walking onto barges and into tunnels and all things needed to achieve this, then I can't tell people I've set him off then the next day tell them he's done it. Right?

I'd have to calculate a load of bullshit up that made enough calculable sense to those wishing to do the math, so that whatever time it took by fictionally calculating the distance and his average speed, I can then shout out (in maybe 9 years) that the man has achieved the goal set out.

Now someone like me would pipe up with, " oh yeah, sure he's done this. what a crock of crap."  You would tell everyone that he has done it because it's took him so long and it makes sense for it to take him that long. So there you are. It's all true.

Come of for crying out loud. Are you really that effing naive? 

But why would you start the story in the first place?

Why does anyone lie?

If I want to spin you lies for a long time and amaze you at the same time, I have to play the game carefully.
In time the distances traveled will get faster and shorter, just like the man walking around the world on his hands.
The next time he does something, we add rubber palm pads and then springs and so on so we can knock off so much time.

In your space, they will invent hyper drives and all kids of bollocks that will have mars trips as good as going to the shops, just as soon as they get the Hollywood effects believable for the viewing audience.

Make the distances further away so people cannot challenge it with any authority.
Piss easy to pull off for these people.
Let's face it. In this day and age when people can see the moon landing shit for what it was, the likes of you are gripped to it like a frigging limpet as being 100% true.
If you're going to believe that in this day and age then you'll believe they went to pluto in an inflatable dingy and snorkelling gear.

Quote from: sceptimatic on July 14, 2015, 04:54:23 AM

Quote from: Doglover on July 14, 2015, 04:28:23 AM

Quote from: sceptimatic on July 14, 2015, 04:07:16 AM

Quote from: Cartesian on July 14, 2015, 03:36:14 AM

I don't think you are getting my point scepti. If NASA had lied about sending a probe to Pluto, why would they have waited 9.5 years after the actual launch to tell everyone that the probe finally reaches Pluto.

If I wanted to lie to you about telling you that my friend set off from my home to walk around the world and end up back at my door but did this feat by walking on his hands which consisted of not only ascending hills and what not, but also walking onto barges and into tunnels and all things needed to achieve this, then I can't tell people I've set him off then the next day tell them he's done it. Right?

I'd have to calculate a load of bullshit up that made enough calculable sense to those wishing to do the math, so that whatever time it took by fictionally calculating the distance and his average speed, I can then shout out (in maybe 9 years) that the man has achieved the goal set out.

Now someone like me would pipe up with, " oh yeah, sure he's done this. what a crock of crap."  You would tell everyone that he has done it because it's took him so long and it makes sense for it to take him that long. So there you are. It's all true.

Come of for crying out loud. Are you really that effing naive? 

But why would you start the story in the first place?

Why does anyone lie?

That doesn't answer the question, it just avoids it.  Why did they tell this particular lie?

YOU NEED TO PROVIDE EVIDENCE OF A CONSPIRACY OR IT CAN BE DISPROVEN WITHOUT EVIDENCE

Is that enough for you to notice?

New Horizons is on its closest approach to Pluto and its moons. Why would anyone spend 9+ years to create a such elaborate lie? Why would anyone lie about Pluto's distance of 3 billion miles from Earth? Why would lie about a spacecraft that can only travel that distance in 9.5 years?

20^th Jan 2006: http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/sci/tech/4629486.stm
14^th Jul 2015: http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/science-environment-33517532
Its position: http://www.livecometdata.com/new-horizons-spacecraft/

I doubt logic changes substantially over time. The burden of proof is not a fallacy. Saying that the other person has the burden of proof is, if true, an entirely valid statement.
If you are claiming that something is, then you do have the burden of proof, no fallacy involved.

Russell's teapot, sometimes called the celestial teapot or cosmic teapot, is an analogy first coined by the philosopher Bertrand Russell (1872–1970) to illustrate that the philosophic burden of proof lies upon a person making scientifically unfalsifiable claims rather than shifting the burden of proof to others, specifically in the case of religion. Russell wrote that if he claims that a teapot orbits the Sun somewhere in space between the Earth and Mars, it is nonsensical for him to expect others to believe him on the grounds that they cannot prove him wrong. Russell's teapot is still referred to in discussions concerning the existence of God.

Quote from: Misero on July 14, 2015, 05:14:40 AM

YOU NEED TO PROVIDE EVIDENCE OF A CONSPIRACY OR IT CAN BE DISPROVEN WITHOUT EVIDENCE

Is that enough for you to notice?

MISERO: THAT IS THE BURDEN OF PROOF FALLACY. DO YOU UNDERSTAND?

I doubt logic changes substantially over time. The burden of proof is not a fallacy. Saying that the other person has the burden of proof is, if true, an entirely valid statement.
If you are claiming that something is, then you do have the burden of proof, no fallacy involved.

Quote from: JohnTitor on July 14, 2015, 12:27:28 PM

I doubt logic changes substantially over time. The burden of proof is not a fallacy. Saying that the other person has the burden of proof is, if true, an entirely valid statement.
If you are claiming that something is, then you do have the burden of proof, no fallacy involved.

johntitor, read the following and then ask yourself can anyone disprove the claims that nasa makes? Substitue 'probe' for 'teapot', if that helps.

Quote

Russell's teapot, sometimes called the celestial teapot or cosmic teapot, is an analogy first coined by the philosopher Bertrand Russell (1872–1970) to illustrate that the philosophic burden of proof lies upon a person making scientifically unfalsifiable claims rather than shifting the burden of proof to others, specifically in the case of religion. Russell wrote that if he claims that a teapot orbits the Sun somewhere in space between the Earth and Mars, it is nonsensical for him to expect others to believe him on the grounds that they cannot prove him wrong. Russell's teapot is still referred to in discussions concerning the existence of God.

miseros claim was fallacious: "YOU NEED TO PROVIDE EVIDENCE OF A CONSPIRACY OR IT CAN BE DISPROVEN WITHOUT EVIDENCE."

Quote from: JimmyTheCrab on July 14, 2015, 05:23:47 AM

Quote from: sceptimatic on July 14, 2015, 04:54:23 AM

Quote from: Doglover on July 14, 2015, 04:28:23 AM

Quote from: sceptimatic on July 14, 2015, 04:07:16 AM

Quote from: Cartesian on July 14, 2015, 03:36:14 AM

I don't think you are getting my point scepti. If NASA had lied about sending a probe to Pluto, why would they have waited 9.5 years after the actual launch to tell everyone that the probe finally reaches Pluto.

If I wanted to lie to you about telling you that my friend set off from my home to walk around the world and end up back at my door but did this feat by walking on his hands which consisted of not only ascending hills and what not, but also walking onto barges and into tunnels and all things needed to achieve this, then I can't tell people I've set him off then the next day tell them he's done it. Right?

I'd have to calculate a load of bullshit up that made enough calculable sense to those wishing to do the math, so that whatever time it took by fictionally calculating the distance and his average speed, I can then shout out (in maybe 9 years) that the man has achieved the goal set out.

Now someone like me would pipe up with, " oh yeah, sure he's done this. what a crock of crap."  You would tell everyone that he has done it because it's took him so long and it makes sense for it to take him that long. So there you are. It's all true.

Come of for crying out loud. Are you really that effing naive? 

But why would you start the story in the first place?

Why does anyone lie?

That doesn't answer the question, it just avoids it.  Why did they tell this particular lie?

This lie is a continuation of all the space travel lies. One lie piled on top of another. The reason is to keep you amazed and baffled, to keep you unaware of the very ground you walk on. You think you are flying through space at unimaginable speeds, actually you are planted on an unmovable earth.

This lie is a continuation of all the space travel lies. One lie piled on top of another. The reason is to keep you amazed and baffled, to keep you unaware of the very ground you walk on. You think you are flying through space at unimaginable speeds, actually you are planted on an unmovable earth.

Quote from: hoppy on July 14, 2015, 07:37:44 AM

This lie is a continuation of all the space travel lies. One lie piled on top of another. The reason is to keep you amazed and baffled, to keep you unaware of the very ground you walk on. You think you are flying through space at unimaginable speeds, actually you are planted on an unmovable earth.

Sounds reasonable to me. Only brainwashed twirps believe in space travel anyway.

The pictures should be better if they were taken from space.

Quote from: hoppy on July 14, 2015, 07:37:44 AM

Quote from: JimmyTheCrab on July 14, 2015, 05:23:47 AM

Quote from: sceptimatic on July 14, 2015, 04:54:23 AM

Quote from: Doglover on July 14, 2015, 04:28:23 AM

Quote from: sceptimatic on July 14, 2015, 04:07:16 AM

Quote from: Cartesian on July 14, 2015, 03:36:14 AM

I don't think you are getting my point scepti. If NASA had lied about sending a probe to Pluto, why would they have waited 9.5 years after the actual launch to tell everyone that the probe finally reaches Pluto.

If I wanted to lie to you about telling you that my friend set off from my home to walk around the world and end up back at my door but did this feat by walking on his hands which consisted of not only ascending hills and what not, but also walking onto barges and into tunnels and all things needed to achieve this, then I can't tell people I've set him off then the next day tell them he's done it. Right?

I'd have to calculate a load of bullshit up that made enough calculable sense to those wishing to do the math, so that whatever time it took by fictionally calculating the distance and his average speed, I can then shout out (in maybe 9 years) that the man has achieved the goal set out.

Now someone like me would pipe up with, " oh yeah, sure he's done this. what a crock of crap."  You would tell everyone that he has done it because it's took him so long and it makes sense for it to take him that long. So there you are. It's all true.

Come of for crying out loud. Are you really that effing naive? 

But why would you start the story in the first place?

Why does anyone lie?

That doesn't answer the question, it just avoids it.  Why did they tell this particular lie?

This lie is a continuation of all the space travel lies. One lie piled on top of another. The reason is to keep you amazed and baffled, to keep you unaware of the very ground you walk on. You think you are flying through space at unimaginable speeds, actually you are planted on an unmovable earth.

I bet if you ask any 100 people what the New Horizons Probe is, less than 10 of them would have the faintest idea. An awful lot of effort for very little payback.

The pictures should be better if they were taken from space.

After 9+ years of waiting, here's the first close up picture of Pluto!



9 years for just a boring mountainous landscape? Come on dudes. Wake up!

Quote from: Doglover on July 14, 2015, 06:20:55 PM

Quote from: hoppy on July 14, 2015, 07:37:44 AM

Quote from: JimmyTheCrab on July 14, 2015, 05:23:47 AM

Quote from: sceptimatic on July 14, 2015, 04:54:23 AM

Quote from: Doglover on July 14, 2015, 04:28:23 AM

Quote from: sceptimatic on July 14, 2015, 04:07:16 AM

Quote from: Cartesian on July 14, 2015, 03:36:14 AM

I don't think you are getting my point scepti. If NASA had lied about sending a probe to Pluto, why would they have waited 9.5 years after the actual launch to tell everyone that the probe finally reaches Pluto.

If I wanted to lie to you about telling you that my friend set off from my home to walk around the world and end up back at my door but did this feat by walking on his hands which consisted of not only ascending hills and what not, but also walking onto barges and into tunnels and all things needed to achieve this, then I can't tell people I've set him off then the next day tell them he's done it. Right?

I'd have to calculate a load of bullshit up that made enough calculable sense to those wishing to do the math, so that whatever time it took by fictionally calculating the distance and his average speed, I can then shout out (in maybe 9 years) that the man has achieved the goal set out.

Now someone like me would pipe up with, " oh yeah, sure he's done this. what a crock of crap."  You would tell everyone that he has done it because it's took him so long and it makes sense for it to take him that long. So there you are. It's all true.

Come of for crying out loud. Are you really that effing naive? 

But why would you start the story in the first place?

Why does anyone lie?

That doesn't answer the question, it just avoids it.  Why did they tell this particular lie?

This lie is a continuation of all the space travel lies. One lie piled on top of another. The reason is to keep you amazed and baffled, to keep you unaware of the very ground you walk on. You think you are flying through space at unimaginable speeds, actually you are planted on an unmovable earth.

I bet if you ask any 100 people what the New Horizons Probe is, less than 10 of them would have the faintest idea. An awful lot of effort for very little payback.

This is so true. Less than 10% would have any idea of what it is and even lesser would care for what it does.