new member struggling to come to terms with the nature of reality

Quote from: brutal delux on July 07, 2015, 01:58:09 PM

Thank you Hoppy and Legion, i see my post has already brought out the trolls and to these trolls i say please go away, i did not ask for any advice, nor do i require any, i came here to get away from people like you so i could communicate with people like me, if you believe the earth is a globe i am not going to enter a debate with you, if you try, it is my veiw that you only serve to make a fool of yourself and who wants to talk to a fool apart from another fool. please find another way of starting a pointless argument somewhere else because these are my final words to you, good bye.

Ok, bye. Really, if simply don't want to debate, and just want to close yourself to your chosen hypothesis (no theory, there can only be one theory on something in science at a time), it is fine, really. But then don't pretend to be a freethinker. If you trully want to know whether the Earth is flat or not, I will be happy to answer any questions you may pose to the model, and offer explanations.

I think  there is a question as to whether any thing of flat earth nature is even a hypothesis. Just ideas.

hoyhoy5, Conker Link, myself and  others have tried to make some explanations for you to consider.

Just for your information, most people who work in a lot of fields in the real world don't just BELIEVE the earth is a globe, they KNOW for a fact that the earth is a globe. If the earth was flat they would be out of a job. Since the earth is a globe they do have a lot of jobs. LOL.

Another thing. The question of who is a troll is like the pot calling the kettle black.
Another big LOL.

Another thing. The question of who is a troll is like the pot calling the kettle black.

You are a stated round earther who engages in trolling on the flat earth forum. There is no "question" about who the trolls are on this site.

Well I suppose you're right if trolling is posting the right facts compared to flat earth nonsense.

If all the round earthers left this website to the flat earthers, there would still be a lot of trolls around.

Is anyone else having any trouble with delays in posting ?

Nobody else is. It is probably just your overlords taking their time before approving your posts. Pathetic.

Quote from: Googleotomy on July 08, 2015, 09:51:44 AM

Is anyone else having any trouble with delays in posting ?

Nobody else is. It is probably just your overlords taking their time before approving your posts. Pathetic.

Working OK now. But this website has been notorious . No problems on any other websites.

Quote from: Googleotomy on July 08, 2015, 12:16:06 PM

Another thing. The question of who is a troll is like the pot calling the kettle black.

There is no "question" about who the trolls are on this site.

Well of course not, you're one of them. How could that be questionable?

Let me introduce myself by saying i am and always have considered myself to be an atheist, not overly impressed with the requirements to not let the absence of facts stand in the way of reaching a conclusion was an irreconcilable problem that i had and still have with belief systems so i rely on science to provide me with evidence on which i could build knowledge and understanding because i'm all about truth.

My hunger for truth has led me down many rabbit holes and i've bought in to many conspiracy theories on the strength of the overwhelming available "evidence"  in support of one "theory" compared to the total absence of evidence supporting another but i have avoided the flat earth theory videos on youtube like the plague and why wouldn't i, i'm not a nutter am i?

science tells me that the earth is a globe, revolving on its axis with a moon in its orbit that it takes on its journey around the sun and superficially the theory makes sense to me, there are a few bits i don't understand when i go deeper into the theory but that's just because i lack the imagination and intelligence to understand the complexities of the additional theories like the big bang, relativity and special relativity etc that explain the flaws i encounter in the theory so i just accept it as fact and move on.

unperturbed by my lack of imagination and intelligence i develop an interest in quantum physics and what i discover shook me to the core, apparently every thing we see and cant see is made up of particles and/or waves, two competely different things but when tested particles can appear to be waves and vice versa depending on what the observer is looking to see, how can this be. how can a particle still be a particle while at the same time exist as a wave, something completely different depending on how it is observed, i can't quite get my head around this but i accept it as fact and move on 

Watching an Obama speech the other day he implied that climate change deniers were among the same bunch of nutters as the flat earthers and i thought hey, i'm a climate change denier maybe there is something to this flat earth stuff and if i'm all about truth i ought to at least take a look at the evidence

So i did look at the evidence and what i discovered shook me to the core, there is overwhelming, irrefutable evidence that most if not all that we are told about the earth by science based on the globe earth model can be proven wrong and although the flat earth theory is not without flaws all the verifiable, irrefutable facts point to a stationary flat earth at the centre of the universe.

Accepting the earth is flat and denying the globe is not an easy step to take, the ramifications don't bare thinking about but to accept the globe you must discard all physical evidence to the contrary and "believe"only in the theory, to stop trusting in your own lying eyes and intellect is even harder than accepting the earth could be flat, in order come to terms with the evidence before me i have to settle on the earth existing in two separate dimensions depending on how it is being observed much like the waves and particles of quantum physics,

in one dimension where no verifiable facts are required for something to be considered true just a plausible story, the earth observed only in this dimension is indeed a globe that spins on its axis and orbits the sun and i'll call this dimension theory because that is the only dimension in which the earth is a globe

In  another dimension, where in the absence of a plausible story only the verifiable facts and irrefutable proof are required for something to be considered true. the earth observed in this dimension  which i will call reality, is in "fact" a stationary flat object at the centre of the universe.

In conclusion, i have been deceived. i knew the earth was flat all along, the evidence was starring me in the face every time i opened my eyes but i just couldn't trust my own lying eyes because people smarter than me told me so, snapping out of my trance has changed my hole understanding of the nature of reality. i will never again believe some thing that flies in the face of the evidence purely because i want to believe some one would not lie to me, is the world flat? i know it is but i don't care because in reality it makes no difference where i live, the mere realisation that i was deceived and identifying the methods used to hide it from me have changed the way i will live my life for ever. from  now on if anyone wants me to believe the earth is a globe they are going to have to show me the evidence because just calling me a nutter is not going to work

Whatever convinced you that the Earth is flat, tell me and I will debunk it.  I have been familiar with FET for quite a while now and I have never seen an argument for flat Earth that cannot be debunked easily.  You have to consider both sides of a debate before choosing a side, the problem with flat earthers is that they generally avoid the other side of the debate, which prevents them from being objective.  Anyone objective flat earther doesn't remain a flat earther for long.

In an earlier post, while thanking flat earthers for their input i also addressed round earthers who contributed,  i informed them that i came here to get away from them and i made it clear to any one with a brain that i have not asked them for any advise and i do not require any advise from round earthers (this is a fact that can be checked by going through all my posts and noting the total absence of any questions about a flat earth) this is what i would call "evidence" that i did not ask for nor do i require any advise and this evidence is there if they would just look for it, but they don't, they refuse to look at the evidence, they unshakably  believe (like a religious dogma) that i came here because i have questions and i need answers which only they can provide if only i would ask them but they can not accept that in reality i have no interest in any thing they have to say, no belief in any answers they can offer so i won't ask them anything but still they will not accept this reality for which there is evidence if they would just look for it.
 Based on the evidence available to me at this time regarding the nature of round earthers i can only conclude that the round earth theory would have much more credibility if the people making the most noise about it weren't so blatantly detached from, and persistently  demonstrating a stubborn refusal to accept reality.   

Hello septic.

Based on the evidence available to me at this time regarding the nature of round earthers i can only conclude that the round earth theory would have much more credibility if the people making the most noise about it weren't so blatantly detached from, and persistently  demonstrating a stubborn refusal to accept reality.

I guess you see what you want to see.

Mikeman i like your signature quote "The only source of knowledge is experience."
-Albert Einstein

Flat earthers: keep this in mind when you make up explanations for things.
 
Einstien also said that "two things are infinite, the universe and human stupidity and i'm not sure about the universe"
round earthers keep this in mind  when you accept explanations for things

Einstien also said that "two things are infinite, the universe and human stupidity and i'm not sure about the universe"
round earthers keep this in mind  when you accept explanations for things

I agree.  Flat earthers need to keep it in mind too when they take a non-credible nutter's word on the nature of the universe.

Einstein also said among other things  "the only thing that interferes with my learning is my education" and until people come to terms with this quote will another quote of his "there comes a time when the mind takes a higher plane of knowledge but can never prove how it got there" really be appreciated. 

Einstein also said among other things  "the only thing that interferes with my learning is my education" and until people come to terms with this quote will another quote of his "there comes a time when the mind takes a higher plane of knowledge but can never prove how it got there" really be appreciated.

Fun thing is Sciende and nature don't give a f--- about what Einstein or Newton said.. they still work whether it was said by Einstein or a kid.

i came here to talk to flat earthers but there is no getting away from round earthers so i will for the sake of argument attempt to get some answers to some ball earth questions from some ball  earth experts
 my first question, if the earth travels around the sun in an elliptical orbit, some times we are closer to the sun than at other times when we are farther away and we drag the moon with us around the sun on our elliptical orbit which takes us closer to and farther away from the sun, considering that a total solar eclipse only happens because the moon is exactly 400 times smaller than the sun which is exactly 400 times farther away, assuming the moon can not shrink and grow to compensate for its various distances from the sun just to accommodate a total eclipse. how in an elliptical orbit can the sun always, always be 400 times farther away? or to put it more simply how does an object that moves closer to and farther away from another object always manage to to maintain a fixed distance from that object that never changes?

helloooo, ball earthers, anyone there?

where did everybody go, was it something i said?

i came here to talk to flat earthers but there is no getting away from round earthers so i will for the sake of argument attempt to get some answers to some ball earth questions from some ball  earth experts
 my first question, if the earth travels around the sun in an elliptical orbit, some times we are closer to the sun than at other times when we are farther away and we drag the moon with us around the sun on our elliptical orbit which takes us closer to and farther away from the sun, considering that a total solar eclipse only happens because the moon is exactly 400 times smaller than the sun which is exactly 400 times farther away, assuming the moon can not shrink and grow to compensate for its various distances from the sun just to accommodate a total eclipse. how in an elliptical orbit can the sun always, always be 400 times farther away? or to put it more simply how does an object that moves closer to and farther away from another object always manage to to maintain a fixed distance from that object that never changes?

Simple. Just go to an observatory and talk to an expert in astronomy  for answers to your questions. Or take a course in astronomy.

Quote from: brutal delux on July 09, 2015, 11:06:27 AM

i came here to talk to flat earthers but there is no getting away from round earthers so i will for the sake of argument attempt to get some answers to some ball earth questions from some ball  earth experts
 my first question, if the earth travels around the sun in an elliptical orbit, some times we are closer to the sun than at other times when we are farther away and we drag the moon with us around the sun on our elliptical orbit which takes us closer to and farther away from the sun, considering that a total solar eclipse only happens because the moon is exactly 400 times smaller than the sun which is exactly 400 times farther away, assuming the moon can not shrink and grow to compensate for its various distances from the sun just to accommodate a total eclipse. how in an elliptical orbit can the sun always, always be 400 times farther away? or to put it more simply how does an object that moves closer to and farther away from another object always manage to to maintain a fixed distance from that object that never changes?

Simple. Just go to an observatory and talk to an expert in astronomy  for answers to your questions. Or take a course in astronomy.

Do you know the answer?

where did everybody go, was it something i said?

You told us not to answer to you anymore. Besides, 30 minutes in a forum like this isnt that much.
I'll explain where you got it wrong, though.

considering that a total solar eclipse only happens because the moon is exactly 400 times smaller than the sun

Wrong. If you have two different ecliptical orbits, you can see that the size varies. If the Sun and the Moon where on the same plane, every single month the Moon would occult the Sun, and, depending on the aparent size of both objects, it would be total, or partial.
Since the Moon's orbital plane around the Earth isnt paralel to the Earth's around the Sun (it is about 5º degrees off), then another condition has to happen for an eclipse to occur: depending on the viewer's position, the stereo-angle (angle in 3D) that the Moon has to be has to coincide with the Sun's. Since this depends on the position of both bodies AND the POV, eclipses are very rare. This phenomenon is explained everywhere, I got this explaination back at high school. We even got a nice mobile with a light bulb and diferent sized balls.

conker, i'm sure that all makes sense in your mind but it just sounds like bullshit to me 

" We even got a nice mobile with a light bulb and diferent sized balls." yup that proves it all then doesn't it, close the forum boys, the games up, the earth really is a ball

conker, i'm sure that all makes sense in your mind but it just sounds like bullshit to me

I also forgot to add that the Moon precedes, which means that even at the same time of the same orbit of the same period in the same node, the orbit will vary due to external forces, which causes eclipses to happen at seemingly random dates. They are still predictable though.

" We even got a nice mobile with a light bulb and diferent sized balls." yup that proves it all then doesn't it, close the forum boys, the games up, the earth really is a ball

Wow you really are dense. I didn't say it proved it. I used it as an example, and so did my teacher. The point of science classes is not to prove to you anything and convice you, it is simply to explain the models so you may understand them and THEN and only then you may attempt to prove or disprove them.

EDITED because im an idiot

In an earlier post, while thanking flat earthers for their input i also addressed round earthers who contributed,  i informed them that i came here to get away from them and i made it clear to any one with a brain that i have not asked them for any advise and i do not require any advise from round earthers (this is a fact that can be checked by going through all my posts and noting the total absence of any questions about a flat earth) this is what i would call "evidence" that i did not ask for nor do i require any advise and this evidence is there if they would just look for it, but they don't, they refuse to look at the evidence, they unshakably  believe (like a religious dogma) that i came here because i have questions and i need answers which only they can provide if only i would ask them but they can not accept that in reality i have no interest in any thing they have to say, no belief in any answers they can offer so i won't ask them anything but still they will not accept this reality for which there is evidence if they would just look for it.
 Based on the evidence available to me at this time regarding the nature of round earthers i can only conclude that the round earth theory would have much more credibility if the people making the most noise about it weren't so blatantly detached from, and persistently  demonstrating a stubborn refusal to accept reality.

Your intention has been quite unclear from the start of your post.
a. Do you want to get away from round earthers and engage in discussion with only flat earthers ?
b. You dont want to get into a debate with round earthers ?

If your answers to a or b or both are yes then why dont you post in the flat earth believers discussion board. There is a wealth of information there. Specially the research by Sandokhan in advanced flat earth theory would be more then enough material to end your struggle with the nature of reality!

my apologies, i'm new to this flat earth forum and never realised there was a flat earth section within the flat earth forum thank you for pointing it out to me, i must have stumbled into the piss taking now it all section by mistake

my apologies, i'm new to this flat earth forum and never realised there was a flat earth section within the flat earth forum thank you for pointing it out to me, i must have stumbled into the piss taking now it all section by mistake

Both general and debate are meant as a way of discussion between members, both RE'ers and FEH'ers. That's why they are the only interesting upper fora. Debating is forbidden in the Q&A section and others, which makes them worthless and a waste for time, unless you are interested on learning hinduist time-space-mind relativistic hollow/hole earth/mind quantum penta-dualities.

Quote from: Googleotomy on July 09, 2015, 11:56:30 AM

Quote from: brutal delux on July 09, 2015, 11:06:27 AM

i came here to talk to flat earthers but there is no getting away from round earthers so i will for the sake of argument attempt to get some answers to some ball earth questions from some ball  earth experts
 my first question, if the earth travels around the sun in an elliptical orbit, some times we are closer to the sun than at other times when we are farther away and we drag the moon with us around the sun on our elliptical orbit which takes us closer to and farther away from the sun, considering that a total solar eclipse only happens because the moon is exactly 400 times smaller than the sun which is exactly 400 times farther away, assuming the moon can not shrink and grow to compensate for its various distances from the sun just to accommodate a total eclipse. how in an elliptical orbit can the sun always, always be 400 times farther away? or to put it more simply how does an object that moves closer to and farther away from another object always manage to to maintain a fixed distance from that object that never changes?

Simple. Just go to an observatory and talk to an expert in astronomy  for answers to your questions. Or take a course in astronomy.

Do you know the answer?

I know the general explanation but I would have to go to some expert to get all the details involved. I don't know all the details. Like a lot of persons in the real world, we are just fairly well versed in our little fields or work and have to go those in other fields for answers. Such as experts in the fields of astronomy for the questions about eclipses. There is such a thing as the learning process , you know.

There is an old saying "The only dumb question is the one you don't ask."

But do any of the so-called flat earthers want to learn anything or are they just content to act like trolls ?

i think everyone grew up knowing the earth was a globe and never gave it another thought, some people still know its a globe and refuse to entertain even considering the slightest possibility that they could be wrong and i don't have a problem with them, i have always believed the earth was a globe but i am now open to the idea that i could possibly have been wrong when i was sure that i was right,  surely this puts me in a better position to learn new things than someone who cannot believe they could be wrong, this is why i came here to hear opposing ideas about how the world works and make up my own mind not to have a refresher course in the old theories and have my mind made up for me, i'm not here to try and change any ones views i'm hear looking for a different view on the nature of reallity because i'm bored of the existing one.

let me put it another way, there are two ways of interpreting reality, the way it is and the way we are told that is meant to be and regardless of weather the earth is flat or round, when people believe what they are told is true without question it cultivates a very fertile ground for the seeds of deception to grow, i as i'm as sure many if not all other people have been deceived in the past at some point even if only into believing in Santa Claus as a child and lets face it who would not want to believe in santa as child, if he makes sure you get presents its a better world if he's real, its not until you start to question what you are told does it become clear that santa is not real so maybe the trauma of losing santa because we asked the right questions as a child is why we ask all the wrong questions when we grow up and maybe asking how does the globe earth work is asking the wrong question and maybe, just maybe the right question is how does a globe earth work if its flat?

let me put it another way, there are two ways of interpreting reality, the way it is and the way we are told that is meant to be and regardless of weather the earth is flat or round, when people believe what they are told is true without question it cultivates a very fertile ground for the seeds of deception to grow, i as i'm as sure many if not all other people have been deceived in the past at some point even if only into believing in Santa Claus as a child and lets face it who would not want to believe in santa as child, if he makes sure you get presents its a better world if he's real, its not until you start to question what you are told does it become clear that santa is not real so maybe the trauma of losing santa because we asked the right questions as a child is why we ask all the wrong questions when we grow up and maybe asking how does the globe earth work is asking the wrong question but i'm yet to discover the right question

We are all aware that the universe is still full of incognitos. I don't know about your education, but in myne, my mentors tried to give me knowdlege on the world. Maybe you have been lied to. They didn't. They may had simplified things in order for me to understand them, but they always made clear there was a whole world behind their teachings. They also teached me to apply my knowdlege to explore the world, to find those answers. While my current work doesnt involve physics, I enjoy taking some time into my personal projects that usually revolve around physics (Example: given a series of points, and given the nth and lower deltas of those points [where n is any integer], calculate a ballistic trajectory of a given projectile with frontal drag in order for it to hit the trajectory infered from the points exactly while the target is at the point of the intersection. In other words, given puntual sensor readings, make a cannon hit the target. That's what I'm working on right now). Why do you assume we just "believe" the world is round and not flat? I don't believe the world is round because Im told it is, I believe the world isn't flat because FE can't explain daily phenomenon, and because the Earth seems round when you actually put some effort into it. Watch ships go below the horizon. Watch the stars rotate around you as a sphere. Watch a sunset through a projection telescope. All that I've done as a kid, all that points to a RE.