Gay marriage is now legal in the US

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Re: Gay marriage is now legal in the US
« Reply #1 on: June 26, 2015, 11:16:32 AM »
I'm offended by it simply because I don't think a court should legislate it. I think the States should decide on it. If I were a State that opposed it, I would tell the Court to fuck itself, and refuse to issue the licenses. They would have to send in the military to force my State to do it, if I was the Governor of such a State. And then I would order all State workers to strike, and not allow any one of them to come to work. The military would have to run all the offices of the State indefinitely.

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mikeman7918

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Re: Gay marriage is now legal in the US
« Reply #2 on: June 26, 2015, 11:21:25 AM »
I definitely oppose it.
I am having a video war with Jeranism.
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homo superior

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Re: Gay marriage is now legal in the US
« Reply #3 on: June 26, 2015, 11:36:27 AM »
I'm offended by it simply because I don't think a court should legislate it. I think the States should decide on it. If I were a State that opposed it, I would tell the Court to fuck itself, and refuse to issue the licenses. They would have to send in the military to force my State to do it, if I was the Governor of such a State. And then I would order all State workers to strike, and not allow any one of them to come to work. The military would have to run all the offices of the State indefinitely.

Logical response, albeit carefully constructed.

I definitely oppose it.

Why?

Re: Gay marriage is now legal in the US
« Reply #4 on: June 26, 2015, 11:43:32 AM »
I'm offended by it simply because I don't think a court should legislate it. I think the States should decide on it. If I were a State that opposed it, I would tell the Court to fuck itself, and refuse to issue the licenses. They would have to send in the military to force my State to do it, if I was the Governor of such a State. And then I would order all State workers to strike, and not allow any one of them to come to work. The military would have to run all the offices of the State indefinitely.

Logical response, albeit carefully constructed.

I am, to be honest, uncertain whether you are being serious or mocking.

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I definitely oppose it.

Why?

For the simple reason that Mike is a Mormon, and opposes Gay Marriage based on moral principles. So do I, Mike. But no one is going to force Churches, Synagogues, Temples, Mosques, etc. to perform such marriages. Its only the fact that the Governments themselves must issue the licenses. Who performs the marriage is up to whomever is licensed to perform them and has no moral qualms about doing so. Don't worry. Your Bishop won't being doing it for Time in a chapel, and your Temple Worker won't be doing it for Eternity in a Temple. The LDS Church won't be forced to do it.
« Last Edit: June 26, 2015, 11:47:33 AM by Yaakov ben Avraham »

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homo superior

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Re: Gay marriage is now legal in the US
« Reply #5 on: June 26, 2015, 11:46:00 AM »
I'm being serious, you make a decent point that I can't really refute.

Mike's stance, if what you say is accurate, is more deplorable - but I can't really alter the boy's beliefs. I doubt anything I say will change his mind.

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The Ellimist

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Re: Gay marriage is now legal in the US
« Reply #6 on: June 26, 2015, 11:49:17 AM »
I'm offended by it simply because I don't think a court should legislate it. I think the States should decide on it.
And as usual, many states decided to deny people their basic civil rights, and had to be forced to do the right thing by the federal government.

I mean come on Yaakov. The states (at least some of them) had to be forced to:
1. End slavery
2. End discrimination
3. Give universal suffrage
4. Provide the basic civil rights and liberties stated in the Bill of Rights

At some point you have to admit that until all states are less prejudiced and more educated, they shouldn't be trusted with decisions like this.


Additionally, we cannot entirely rule out the nefarious effects of demons, spirits, gnomes, and wizards on our society's ability to comprehend our flat earth as it really is. 

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The Ellimist

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Re: Gay marriage is now legal in the US
« Reply #7 on: June 26, 2015, 11:53:45 AM »
Well I for one am glad that states can no longer enforce their beliefs and "moral" principles on gays.
Additionally, we cannot entirely rule out the nefarious effects of demons, spirits, gnomes, and wizards on our society's ability to comprehend our flat earth as it really is. 

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Slemon

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Re: Gay marriage is now legal in the US
« Reply #8 on: June 26, 2015, 11:54:26 AM »
About time, really.

Marriage is not necessarily a religious institution: you don't need to be a theist to get a marriage license. If it's the state granting the licenses and granting legal benefits, there's no reason same-sex marriage shouldn't be allowed.
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Re: Gay marriage is now legal in the US
« Reply #9 on: June 26, 2015, 11:57:28 AM »
I'm being serious, you make a decent point that I can't really refute.

Mike's stance, if what you say is accurate, is more deplorable - but I can't really alter the boy's beliefs. I doubt anything I say will change his mind.

Why thank you. As far as Mike's moral concerns, to be honest, HOMO SUPERIOR, I have the same concerns, being as that I am an Orthodox Jew. The difference for me is that I don't choose to impose my morals on anyone else other than fellow Orthodox Jews (and I try to help other non-Orthodox Jews become more Orthodox). I don't think Mike wants to impose his ideas on non-Mormons as such, but I understand how hard accepting the idea of gay marriage is for anyone. I can accept it for non-Jews. I don't know how I would react if I were a morally conservative non-Jew myself.

ELLIMIST, allow me to point out that had I lived during the so-called "Revolution", I would have been a Loyalist, most likely. And even if I had not, I would have certainly been an Anti-Federalist. I don't believe the National Government should even really exist per se. So, you are talking to the entirely wrong person if you want to argue about States' Rights. Slavery should not have been ended by force, but by communication and persuasion. Universal suffrage should have occurred the same way. The only one that I can really agree with you on is #4.

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homo superior

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Re: Gay marriage is now legal in the US
« Reply #10 on: June 26, 2015, 12:15:52 PM »
If you are an anti-federalist, Yaakov, then wouldn't the Bill of Rights be a moot point for you? Wouldn't it make more sense for each individual state to have their own Bill of Rights in that case?

Re: Gay marriage is now legal in the US
« Reply #11 on: June 26, 2015, 12:26:46 PM »
Absolutely, HOMO SUPERIOR. But if you are going to even HAVE a Constitution, then you need to also have a Bill of Rights in it to limit said Constitution. 

Keep in mind that the First Amendment forbidding the establishment of a Religion was actually designed because some States already HAD established religions (Virginia, for example, had the Anglican Church, soon to become the Episcopal Church) and wanted that to continue. The only reason it didn't continue was because it was deemed impractical for each State to have a different Official Church or none at all. Of course, the First Amendment did guarantee Freedom of Worship to all.

Yes, as an Anti-Federalist, I would have much preferred each State to deal with its own Rights issues. And I would prefer that California (my home State, though i don't live there any more) and Texas declare their independence.

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Weatherwax

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Re: Gay marriage is now legal in the US
« Reply #12 on: June 27, 2015, 11:14:56 AM »
I definitely oppose it.

Why? If you are gay, why would you be against it?

If you are not gay, it's got nothing to do with you, so how can you have an opinion?
A delusion is something that someone believes in despite a total lack of evidence - Prof. Richard Dawkins.

Re: Gay marriage is now legal in the US
« Reply #13 on: June 27, 2015, 11:24:04 AM »
WEATHERWAX, my argument is simply that SCOTUS exceeded its authority. The matter should have been left to the Sovereign States to decide.

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Weatherwax

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Re: Gay marriage is now legal in the US
« Reply #14 on: June 27, 2015, 12:32:36 PM »
WEATHERWAX, my argument is simply that SCOTUS exceeded its authority. The matter should have been left to the Sovereign States to decide.

It just seems strange to me that heterosexuals should have a strong opinion on this. There was a referendum in Ireland recently and I saw heterosexual groups campaigning for a no vote - what business is it of theirs?

It makes me angry when people try to project their personal beliefs onto others, which I fear young Mikeman is doing. Just mind your own business!
A delusion is something that someone believes in despite a total lack of evidence - Prof. Richard Dawkins.

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homo superior

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Re: Gay marriage is now legal in the US
« Reply #15 on: June 27, 2015, 12:51:31 PM »
Weatherwax, they're scared. They're in fear that their religious beliefs are becoming irrelevant, and since their religious beliefs are correct they have to assert control over the situation to make them relevant again. After all, there is only one true God, and His views on homosexuality are explicit.

Yaakov doesn't seem to have a problem with homosexual marriage, per se... he has a problem with it being forced on him. He hasn't crossed into full-blown bigotry yet.

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mathsman

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Re: Gay marriage is now legal in the US
« Reply #16 on: June 27, 2015, 01:00:05 PM »
Yaakov doesn't seem to have a problem with homosexual marriage, per se... he has a problem with it being forced on him. He hasn't crossed into full-blown bigotry yet.

How is homosexual marriage forced on people? Are they tied down and sodomized?

Re: Gay marriage is now legal in the US
« Reply #17 on: June 27, 2015, 01:08:30 PM »
I'm offended by it simply because I don't think a court should legislate it. I think the States should decide on it. If I were a State that opposed it, I would tell the Court to fuck itself, and refuse to issue the licenses. They would have to send in the military to force my State to do it, if I was the Governor of such a State. And then I would order all State workers to strike, and not allow any one of them to come to work. The military would have to run all the offices of the State indefinitely.

You feel that seriously about two people falling in love and wanting to get married?

EDIT: States can't refuse certain people a basic civil right. It is the job of the supreme court to decipher what the law is based on the constitution and interpret our basic civil rights.

I definitely oppose it.

Why? Are you against all marriages?

EDIT: Read that you're mormon.

Shouldn't you love your neighbor as you love yourself? And shoudn't you not judge others unless you're without sin?

People want to marry who they love. If you loved your neighbor, you'd want them to marry for love.

I don't get why religious people are so opposed to gay marriage. It's not like if they can't marry they just stop being gay! Marriage is a healthy way to live! They want a monogamous relationship. A stable household. They want to adopt and raise children.

BTW I am a religious person. And it seems to me, it's the religious people that need teaching about what love is.
« Last Edit: June 27, 2015, 01:25:14 PM by FlatOrange »
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homo superior

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Re: Gay marriage is now legal in the US
« Reply #18 on: June 27, 2015, 01:50:47 PM »
I don't get why religious people are so opposed to gay marriage.

Genesis 19:1-13; Leviticus 18:22; 20:13; Romans 1:26-27; 1 Corinthians 6:9

You honestly don't understand why they're against gay marriage?

How is homosexual marriage forced on people? Are they tied down and sodomized?

These are not my sentiments, although I can understand where Yaakov is coming from. I doubt very much that he was involved in the voting process that allowed gay marriage to be legal country-wide.
« Last Edit: June 27, 2015, 02:24:40 PM by homo superior »

Re: Gay marriage is now legal in the US
« Reply #19 on: June 27, 2015, 03:44:31 PM »
In IA it is legal, as legislated by the courts in 2009. Again, inappropriate in my view. The people should have been allowed to vote. I was never offered the chance. Personally, if two dudes want the same rights I have with my wife, I don't mind. I just think it should be called something else. Civil Union, Domestic Partnership, whatever. Just not marriage.

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The Ellimist

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Re: Gay marriage is now legal in the US
« Reply #20 on: June 27, 2015, 04:19:00 PM »
In IA it is legal, as legislated by the courts in 2009. Again, inappropriate in my view. The people should have been allowed to vote. I was never offered the chance. Personally, if two dudes want the same rights I have with my wife, I don't mind. I just think it should be called something else. Civil Union, Domestic Partnership, whatever. Just not marriage.
Why not marriage?
Additionally, we cannot entirely rule out the nefarious effects of demons, spirits, gnomes, and wizards on our society's ability to comprehend our flat earth as it really is. 

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Conker

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Re: Gay marriage is now legal in the US
« Reply #21 on: June 27, 2015, 04:58:06 PM »
Since the diferent religious churches aren't even asked to provide such marriage services, their opinion on the matter is moot. The only important thing is that marriage grants several rights to couples, and since straight couples can benefit from them, it only makes sense gay can, as well. I personally feel like marriage as a whole is something completell foreign to the state, and those rights should just be granted to long-term couples. Nevertheless, since marriage isnt going to get outlawed/ignored by the state any time soon, it can only be good news.
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BJ1234

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Re: Gay marriage is now legal in the US
« Reply #22 on: June 27, 2015, 06:39:26 PM »
We have freedom of religion in this country, why should a religion that opposes same sex marriage prevent another person, who happens to be of a religion(or no religion at all) that accepts same sex marriage, from marrying someone that is acceptable to marry in their religion?

It really comes down to this
If marriage is a religious sacrament/rite/ceremony, why does the government even have their fingers in it to begin with?  They should just pass out Civil Union documents, then after you do that, you go to your place of worship to get married.

Giving someone else the same rights as you, does not take away your rights. 

Re: Gay marriage is now legal in the US
« Reply #23 on: June 27, 2015, 08:35:40 PM »
Marriage, for 25,000 years, has been defined as being between a man and one (or occasionally more than one) woman. Redefining the word to include same gender persons is simply inappropriate. The reason the State has their hands in it is that the State has an interest in keeping track of who is is giving birth to whom, for rights of inheritance, and yada yada yada. Originally, when only one Church existed, they took care of all that, and reported it duly to the Government. The Jews did the same for our small community, of course. But once Christian unity became a thing of the past, that was no longer possible. And once a country was no longer 95% Christian (and 5% Jewish), that could no longer apply either. So the Government had to do it at that point.

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BJ1234

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Re: Gay marriage is now legal in the US
« Reply #24 on: June 27, 2015, 08:50:25 PM »
Marriage, for 25,000 years, has been defined as being between a man and one (or occasionally more than one) woman. Redefining the word to include same gender persons is simply inappropriate. The reason the State has their hands in it is that the State has an interest in keeping track of who is is giving birth to whom, for rights of inheritance, and yada yada yada. Originally, when only one Church existed, they took care of all that, and reported it duly to the Government. The Jews did the same for our small community, of course. But once Christian unity became a thing of the past, that was no longer possible. And once a country was no longer 95% Christian (and 5% Jewish), that could no longer apply either. So the Government had to do it at that point.

Which goes back to my point of why, if the institute of marriage is a religious thing, does the government have their hands in it?  Also, since when was there only 1 church?  And definition of words change over time.  If you went back to when my great grandparents were young, they might tell you that they had a gay marriage.  Even though it was a man and a woman, it simply meant happy.  It now means something else.

Re: Gay marriage is now legal in the US
« Reply #25 on: June 27, 2015, 10:55:25 PM »
I don't get why religious people are so opposed to gay marriage.

Genesis 19:1-13; Leviticus 18:22; 20:13; Romans 1:26-27; 1 Corinthians 6:9

You honestly don't understand why they're against gay marriage?


You took it out of context. Gay marriage is just two people being gay and committing to each other.

I didn't say "I don't understand why religious people are against homosexuality"
No I said "I don't understand why religious people are against gay marriage"

Two people are going to be gay. Are religious people trying to stop all people from being gay? Do they want to make sure gay people are not gay together? No, they're trying to prevent them from marrying. Why? Because they think it will upset God? Who the fuck cares? If it upsets God they'll have to deal with that themselves.  People that want to step in between God and others can fuck themselves.
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Slemon

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Re: Gay marriage is now legal in the US
« Reply #26 on: June 28, 2015, 04:53:44 AM »
Marriage, for 25,000 years, has been defined as being between a man and one (or occasionally more than one) woman. Redefining the word to include same gender persons is simply inappropriate.
And rewind a few years, it had always been between a man and a woman of the same race. Rewind a few more years, and it had always been between a man and a woman he then owned: and if you were at that point in time you could happily make the exact same argument.
The definition of marriage is and has been changing for quite a while. Yes, it's always been defined as between a man and woman (exceptions aside), but before it had always been defined as between a man and woman he owned. All you've done is broaden the definition from what it once was: why wasn't that inappropriate?
It still has much in common: for example, it's a union between two consenting adults.

There are very few things from 25000 years ago that we should sill have unaltered.
We all know deep in our hearts that Jane is the last face we'll see before we're choked to death!

Re: Gay marriage is now legal in the US
« Reply #27 on: June 28, 2015, 05:01:56 AM »
Marriage, for 25,000 years, has been defined as being between a man and one (or occasionally more than one) woman. Redefining the word to include same gender persons is simply inappropriate.
And rewind a few years, it had always been between a man and a woman of the same race. Rewind a few more years, and it had always been between a man and a woman he then owned: and if you were at that point in time you could happily make the exact same argument.
The definition of marriage is and has been changing for quite a while. Yes, it's always been defined as between a man and woman (exceptions aside), but before it had always been defined as between a man and woman he owned. All you've done is broaden the definition from what it once was: why wasn't that inappropriate?
It still has much in common: for example, it's a union between two consenting adults.

There are very few things from 25000 years ago that we should sill have unaltered.

First off, don't give me the Bullshit about men and the women they owned. Men have never owned women as property in the West, although I don't dispute that there were some unfair laws about who could do what in a marriage.

Second off, you have made a mistake by bring up the racial thing. You are assuming that I approve of interracial marriages. I don't. Having been in two interracial relationships myself, one a marriage, and one that was almost a marriage, I learned how stupid the idea was. I actually think SCOTUS exceeded its authority there too. That also should have been left to the States.

So don't push the liberal bullshit. If two people want to marry from separate races, I may have to tolerate it. I don't have to fucking like it. And no, I am not fond of miscegenation in any way, shape, form, or fashion, thank you very much.

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sceptimatic

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Re: Gay marriage is now legal in the US
« Reply #28 on: June 28, 2015, 05:15:15 AM »
 I'm open to argument with all of this gay stuff. I personally have nothing against gay people but I do think they should be denied certain rights that hetro - sexual people are afforded.
 

Re: Gay marriage is now legal in the US
« Reply #29 on: June 28, 2015, 05:27:20 AM »
Like I said, I don't care who sleeps with whom. Its not my business. But I don't think we should be calling it marriage. Call it anything else you like.