Racism

Quote from: mikeman7918 on June 23, 2015, 09:45:33 PM

EJ, sense you seem to think Obama is such a great president and that his skin color somehow makes him superior (you racist), did you know that Obama believes that the Earth is round?

So Obama is a liar and/or the Earth is round.

By the way, I will read your response if you refrain from insulting me.

Mikeman. Since not sense. S-I-N-C-E.

Do you have learning difficulties? I've corrected you like a dozen times, and you still make the same mistake.

My spell checker says otherwise, so I doubted that you were right.  I looked it up and it turns out you are right.  I need to get a new spell checker.

"Sense" and "since" are two separate words. A spellchecker is not going to tell you that either is incorrect, since they are both spelled correctly.

"Sense" and "since" are two separate words. A spellchecker is not going to tell you that either is incorrect, since they are both spelled correctly.

What it meant is that it said that since was not a word.

*Facepalm*
(For the spellcheck)

I have to side with BiJane on this one. Unfortunately her claim is what the statistics show, despite anecdotes (coughhomosuperiorcough)

I have to side with BiJane on this one. Unfortunately her claim is what the statistics suggest, despite anecdotes (coughhomosuperiorcough)

Fix'd that for you. Remember that statistics never show the full picture of what is happening.
Here's a large list of misleading statistics for you. Here's some more. And some more. Learn when to incorporate this data when it's appropriate, but also learn to distance yourself from it when conducting real debates. Like I've said numerous times - statistics never show the full picture. A few pages back I provided studies and statistics that suggest the opposite of what BiJane suggested, which should show you that statistics cannot always be trusted. Use your head.

Before graduating from college, I had a professor who loved to debate. I would debate with him, sometimes using statistics, which he would immediately laugh at and debunk. Statistics are rarely taken seriously when debating the larger issues.




Here's another interesting read, I'll quote the good parts.

First comes the arrest stage. Blacks, who are 12.6% of the U.S. population, currently account for 38.9% of all violent crime arrests nationwide—including 32.5% of all rapes, 55.5% of all robberies, and 33.9% of all aggravated assaults. (Further, blacks are 29.8% of all property-crime arrestees.) Critics charge that these statistics only prove the bias of a system where racism reigns, and where blacks are unfairly targeted by the police.

Thanks to the National Crime Victimization Survey (NCVS)—an extensive, scientific survey of U.S. residents conducted annually by the Bureau of Justice Statistics—we can determine whether or not this charge is valid. Victims of violent crimes (such as robbery, rape, and assault) are usually able to see an attacker well enough to at least identify his or her skin color—along with other distinguishing physical characteristics, like sex, height, weight, and clothing. Since these descriptions are generally what enable the police to make arrests in such cases, even the most racist officer has very little room for discretion; i.e., he cannot arbitrarily arrest a black person if a victim identifies a white offender. NCVS data show that, statistically, the average black is far more likely than the average white to be identified, by a victim, as the perpetrator of a violent crime. This racial gap, moreover, is approximately equal to the racial gap in actual arrest rates. In other words, blacks are arrested for violent crimes at higher rates than whites not because of police racism, but because they commit those crimes at higher rates than whites. The earliest solid evidence for this dates back to 1978, when a study of robbery and aggravated assault in eight cities found that the rates at which victims and witnesses identified blacks and whites, respectively, as perpetrators, were essentially equal to the rates at which blacks and whites were arrested for those particular crimes. As Manhattan Institute scholar Heather MacDonald notes, this finding has been “replicated many times since, across a range of crimes.”

I quote this because I cannot say it better myself. Even assuming that the numbers in this article are made up (they're not, but whatever), we can see that they contradict BiJane's opinions directly. Like I've said plenty of times, what her statistics suggests other statistics debunk, and so on.

I could go on to say that BiJane's cries of racism at the smallest suggestion is a much larger problem than what she is even suggesting. Reverse racism exists, and it exists within BiJane's posts. She is suggesting that the Criminal Justice system in America is run by white supremacists who want to see blacks in prison by any means necessary - is this not a form of racism? Against Caucasians?

Interesting side story. Last night I witnessed someone going through my car. He was black. I called the police, they caught him down the road and I identified him. He is in jail now - his fate none of my concern. I live near the ghetto. This kind of thing happens every day. We can analyze the reasons why until the cows come home, but ultimately... racism doesn't drive black men to commit crimes, black men do.

I have experience. BiJane has none. She is commenting on a matter that is so far removed from her that she ultimately doesn't know what she is talking about.

Well, HOMO SUPERIOR, you have made my point for me, far better than I ever could have made it myself. Sorry to hear about your car, Dude. Glad they caught the bastard. Too bad you weren't carrying. Then you could have shot the bastard and called it a day.

It's time we ditched the over-sensitive polital correctness. We should be past that now and it does damage.

In Rotherham, England, a group of Asian men have been abusing children for years. It turns out that they got away with it for so long because social workers and police (who were aware of it) were terrified of being labelled racist.

Any educated adult knows that skin colour is just a physical trait like eye colour or height; there should be no discrimination either positive or negative, just treat people the same.

Fix'd that for you. Remember that statistics never show the full picture of what is happening.

Yep, we're agreed. However, when they remove all variables except race, guess which has to be responsible?
Are you really still ignoring that fact? The studies I cited removed all variables except for the race of the person involved. No change in income, past experience etc. Guess who still had the advantage?

A few pages back I provided studies and statistics that suggest the opposite of what BiJane suggested, which should show you that statistics cannot always be trusted.

No, the statistics can be trusted: yours just didn't remove variables so there are multiple conclusions to draw from them. Pretty sure I've had to say that before...

I quote this because I cannot say it better myself. Even assuming that the numbers in this article are made up (they're not, but whatever), we can see that they contradict BiJane's opinions directly. Like I've said plenty of times, what her statistics suggests other statistics debunk, and so on.

Except they don't take into account possible discrepancies with reporting a crime when the perpetrator was white, vs when they were black. They don't take into account how people can assume a perpetrator was black. There's the matter of income inequality (which is sustained by external racism). And there's how there are non-violent crimes for which black people are disproprtionately arrested: like drug offences (I linked to sources before. Apparently you enjoy repeating a point which has already been discussed. It's not really a good habit). Oh, and of course consequences of microaggressions: tell someone they're violent, inevitably criminal etc long enough, what do you expect?
You can't insist statistics don't tell the whole story, and then immediately turn around and say they do when theys upport your point of view, especially when ours make no effort to locate a cause, when mine were studies which purposefully removed all variables other than race.

I could go on to say that BiJane's cries of racism at the smallest suggestion is a much larger problem than what she is even suggesting. Reverse racism exists, and it exists within BiJane's posts. She is suggesting that the Criminal Justice system in America is run by white supremacists who want to see blacks in prison by any means necessary - is this not a form of racism? Against Caucasians?

Oh please, when a few annoyed forum posts (which you're misrepresenting, but never mind) have anywhere near the same consequences as centuries of abuse and neglect and ignorance and hate, then you can complain.

I have experience. BiJane has none. She is commenting on a matter that is so far removed from her that she ultimately doesn't know what she is talking about.

Experience in one job in one place where you had access to next to none of the pertinent information doesn't count as experience. Sorry.

Any educated adult knows that skin colour is just a physical trait like eye colour or height; there should be no discrimination either positive or negative, just treat people the same.

I think most people would agree with that: however, it's not exactly easy to enforce.

Common sense and decency shouldn't need to be enforced, and you're right, can't be. It just takes time. I think we are getting there in my country (UK) at least. It seems tobe a lot more deep seated in the US, but they'll catch up eventually!

You're repeating yourself again, BiJane. You've added no good points. Once again, you've failed to convince me that racism is involved.

It's also worth noting that your statistics have just as many problems as mine. They're not 100% accurate, just like mine. Nothing is ever 100% accurate due to the nature of how statistics are gathered. So please stop relying on statistics and ignorance to win debates. It's not cute just because you're a girl, it's just annoying.

USA Today? And National Public Radio? And Oklahoma State University? I'm sure they'll all love being called white supremacy sites. Asshole. What's up, Wig?

Okay fine maybe there not explisitley wite sapremist but there still part of the conservativeley-biased WITE-controled media!!!!!!!!!!! ASSWHOLE!!!!!! BAM!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

So, to summarise 5 pages of rage, America still has big problems over race.

It's no wonder you are getting left behind by the rest of the world now, we all got past this like 30 years ago.

Serousley, America has HUGE race problims!!!!!!!!! Frankley I dont find race ralations much more difrint than they were a hundrid years ago!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! And I ESPECSHALEY feel the afecs of it!!!!!!!!!!!! *drops mike*!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

EJ, sense you seem to think Obama is such a great president and that his skin color somehow makes him superior (you racist), did you know that Obama believes that the Earth is round?

So Obama is a liar and/or the Earth is round.

By the way, I will read your response if you refrain from insulting me.

Its not Obamas falt he was edjewcatid using WITE methids of techeing!!!!!!! The evil wite devil edjewcashinel sistum has tricked the blackman into beleiving the earth is round and these tipes of beleifs are holding the black race down!!!!!!!!!!!! And I will insult you, IDIOT!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! BAM!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Quote from: mikeman7918 on June 23, 2015, 09:45:33 PM

EJ, sense you seem to think Obama is such a great president and that his skin color somehow makes him superior (you racist), did you know that Obama believes that the Earth is round?

So Obama is a liar and/or the Earth is round.

By the way, I will read your response if you refrain from insulting me.

Mikeman. Since not sense. S-I-N-C-E.

Do you have learning difficulties? I've corrected you like a dozen times, and you still make the same mistake.

What the flip do you expec from an idiot?! !!!!!!!!!! Moron cant evan spel "sinse"!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! *drops mike*!!!!!!!!!!

Quote from: Itchy_Arris on June 24, 2015, 03:18:00 AM

Quote from: mikeman7918 on June 23, 2015, 09:45:33 PM

EJ, sense you seem to think Obama is such a great president and that his skin color somehow makes him superior (you racist), did you know that Obama believes that the Earth is round?

So Obama is a liar and/or the Earth is round.

By the way, I will read your response if you refrain from insulting me.

Mikeman. Since not sense. S-I-N-C-E.

Do you have learning difficulties? I've corrected you like a dozen times, and you still make the same mistake.

My spell checker says otherwise, so I doubted that you were right.  I looked it up and it turns out you are right.  I need to get a new spell checker.

Yeh, shore (sarcasim if your pathetic litel mind culdint comprahend it!)! !!!!!!!!! Says the douche!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

*Facepalm*
(For the spellcheck)

!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

You're repeating yourself again, BiJane. You've added no good points.

How can I add new points when you ahven't changed a word of yours?

Once again, you've failed to convince me that racism is involved.

Of course not. There's no convincing someone who's made up their mind.

It's also worth noting that your statistics have just as many problems as mine. They're not 100% accurate, just like mine. Nothing is ever 100% accurate due to the nature of how statistics are gathered. So please stop relying on statistics and ignorance to win debates.

Studies with only one variable available give a valid picture, especially with a large sample size. Statistics are useful. You don't get to reject them just because it damages your preconceptions. Statistics are used in literally every single area of real-world analysis. 100% accurate? No, but they're much closer to it than a biased take on limited experience of a limited area.

There's no convincing someone who's already made up their mind - you're absolutely right.

Quote from: Yaakov ben Avraham on June 22, 2015, 08:06:45 PM

USA Today? And National Public Radio? And Oklahoma State University? I'm sure they'll all love being called white supremacy sites. Asshole. What's up, Wig?

Okay fine maybe there not explisitley wite sapremist but there still part of the conservativeley-biased WITE-controled media!!!!!!!!!!! ASSWHOLE!!!!!! BAM!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Quote from: Itchy_Arris on June 23, 2015, 04:22:24 AM

So, to summarise 5 pages of rage, America still has big problems over race.

It's no wonder you are getting left behind by the rest of the world now, we all got past this like 30 years ago.

Serousley, America has HUGE race problims!!!!!!!!! Frankley I dont find race ralations much more difrint than they were a hundrid years ago!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! And I ESPECSHALEY feel the afecs of it!!!!!!!!!!!! *drops mike*!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Quote from: mikeman7918 on June 23, 2015, 09:45:33 PM

EJ, sense you seem to think Obama is such a great president and that his skin color somehow makes him superior (you racist), did you know that Obama believes that the Earth is round?

So Obama is a liar and/or the Earth is round.

By the way, I will read your response if you refrain from insulting me.

Its not Obamas falt he was edjewcatid using WITE methids of techeing!!!!!!! The evil wite devil edjewcashinel sistum has tricked the blackman into beleiving the earth is round and these tipes of beleifs are holding the black race down!!!!!!!!!!!! And I will insult you, IDIOT!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! BAM!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Quote from: Itchy_Arris on June 24, 2015, 03:18:00 AM

Quote from: mikeman7918 on June 23, 2015, 09:45:33 PM

EJ, sense you seem to think Obama is such a great president and that his skin color somehow makes him superior (you racist), did you know that Obama believes that the Earth is round?

So Obama is a liar and/or the Earth is round.

By the way, I will read your response if you refrain from insulting me.

Mikeman. Since not sense. S-I-N-C-E.

Do you have learning difficulties? I've corrected you like a dozen times, and you still make the same mistake.

What the flip do you expec from an idiot?! !!!!!!!!!! Moron cant evan spel "sinse"!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! *drops mike*!!!!!!!!!!

Quote from: mikeman7918 on June 24, 2015, 09:30:30 AM

Quote from: Itchy_Arris on June 24, 2015, 03:18:00 AM

Quote from: mikeman7918 on June 23, 2015, 09:45:33 PM

EJ, sense you seem to think Obama is such a great president and that his skin color somehow makes him superior (you racist), did you know that Obama believes that the Earth is round?

So Obama is a liar and/or the Earth is round.

By the way, I will read your response if you refrain from insulting me.

Mikeman. Since not sense. S-I-N-C-E.

Do you have learning difficulties? I've corrected you like a dozen times, and you still make the same mistake.

My spell checker says otherwise, so I doubted that you were right.  I looked it up and it turns out you are right.  I need to get a new spell checker.

Yeh, shore (sarcasim if your pathetic litel mind culdint comprahend it!)! !!!!!!!!! Says the douche!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Quote from: Misero on June 24, 2015, 10:49:34 AM

*Facepalm*
(For the spellcheck)

!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

This diatribe brought to you from the letters EJ, who thinks that Big Bird is a horrible slavering racist.

And further brought to you from the guy whose picture shows him clearly to be a white male. Gotta love it. "The Man" gettin' ya down for being 1/32nd Black there, EJ?

Quote from: The Ellimist on June 24, 2015, 05:06:56 PM

I have to side with BiJane on this one. Unfortunately her claim is what the statistics suggest, despite anecdotes (coughhomosuperiorcough)

Fix'd that for you. Remember that statistics never show the full picture of what is happening.
Here's a large list of misleading statistics for you. Here's some more. And some more. Learn when to incorporate this data when it's appropriate, but also learn to distance yourself from it when conducting real debates. Like I've said numerous times - statistics never show the full picture. A few pages back I provided studies and statistics that suggest the opposite of what BiJane suggested, which should show you that statistics cannot always be trusted. Use your head.

Before graduating from college, I had a professor who loved to debate. I would debate with him, sometimes using statistics, which he would immediately laugh at and debunk. Statistics are rarely taken seriously when debating the larger issues.




Here's another interesting read, I'll quote the good parts.

Quote

First comes the arrest stage. Blacks, who are 12.6% of the U.S. population, currently account for 38.9% of all violent crime arrests nationwide—including 32.5% of all rapes, 55.5% of all robberies, and 33.9% of all aggravated assaults. (Further, blacks are 29.8% of all property-crime arrestees.) Critics charge that these statistics only prove the bias of a system where racism reigns, and where blacks are unfairly targeted by the police.

Thanks to the National Crime Victimization Survey (NCVS)—an extensive, scientific survey of U.S. residents conducted annually by the Bureau of Justice Statistics—we can determine whether or not this charge is valid. Victims of violent crimes (such as robbery, rape, and assault) are usually able to see an attacker well enough to at least identify his or her skin color—along with other distinguishing physical characteristics, like sex, height, weight, and clothing. Since these descriptions are generally what enable the police to make arrests in such cases, even the most racist officer has very little room for discretion; i.e., he cannot arbitrarily arrest a black person if a victim identifies a white offender. NCVS data show that, statistically, the average black is far more likely than the average white to be identified, by a victim, as the perpetrator of a violent crime. This racial gap, moreover, is approximately equal to the racial gap in actual arrest rates. In other words, blacks are arrested for violent crimes at higher rates than whites not because of police racism, but because they commit those crimes at higher rates than whites. The earliest solid evidence for this dates back to 1978, when a study of robbery and aggravated assault in eight cities found that the rates at which victims and witnesses identified blacks and whites, respectively, as perpetrators, were essentially equal to the rates at which blacks and whites were arrested for those particular crimes. As Manhattan Institute scholar Heather MacDonald notes, this finding has been “replicated many times since, across a range of crimes.”

I quote this because I cannot say it better myself. Even assuming that the numbers in this article are made up (they're not, but whatever), we can see that they contradict BiJane's opinions directly. Like I've said plenty of times, what her statistics suggests other statistics debunk, and so on.

I could go on to say that BiJane's cries of racism at the smallest suggestion is a much larger problem than what she is even suggesting. Reverse racism exists, and it exists within BiJane's posts. She is suggesting that the Criminal Justice system in America is run by white supremacists who want to see blacks in prison by any means necessary - is this not a form of racism? Against Caucasians?

Interesting side story. Last night I witnessed someone going through my car. He was black. I called the police, they caught him down the road and I identified him. He is in jail now - his fate none of my concern. I live near the ghetto. This kind of thing happens every day. We can analyze the reasons why until the cows come home, but ultimately... racism doesn't drive black men to commit crimes, black men do.

I have experience. BiJane has none. She is commenting on a matter that is so far removed from her that she ultimately doesn't know what she is talking about.

Wow. It's like your assuming like I didn't read any of this thread. Maybe it doesn't just occur to you that even to a casual reader, you've been debunked.

You have anecdotal experience in a small area, which is basically nothing, while BiJane is relying on factual statistics.

Remember that statistics never show the full picture of what is happening.

You keep clinging to that statement. What else is there to the picture if the statistics only variable is race and the statistics show a disproportion of people hired who are of different races?

I quote this because I cannot say it better myself. Even assuming that the numbers in this article are made up (they're not, but whatever), we can see that they contradict BiJane's opinions directly.

Except they don't take into account possible discrepancies with reporting a crime when the perpetrator was white, vs when they were black. They don't take into account how people can assume a perpetrator was black. There's the matter of income inequality (which is sustained by external racism). And there's how there are non-violent crimes for which black people are disproprtionately arrested: like drug offences (I linked to sources before. Apparently you enjoy repeating a point which has already been discussed. It's not really a good habit). Oh, and of course consequences of microaggressions: tell someone they're violent, inevitably criminal etc long enough, what do you expect?
You can't insist statistics don't tell the whole story, and then immediately turn around and say they do when theys upport your point of view, especially when ours make no effort to locate a cause, when mine were studies which purposefully removed all variables other than race.

Like I've said plenty of times, what her statistics suggests other statistics debunk, and so on.

Where are these other magical statisics that you seem to believe exist? You can't just say, "Oh, these statistics don't mean anything, someone statistics somewhere on the internet debunk them." That's lazy at best.

I could go on to say that BiJane's cries of racism at the smallest suggestion is a much larger problem than what she is even suggesting. Reverse racism exists, and it exists within BiJane's posts. She is suggesting that the Criminal Justice system in America is run by white supremacists who want to see blacks in prison by any means necessary - is this not a form of racism? Against Caucasians?

Alright EJ, you blew it.  I am never reading another one of your posts.

I am also relying on factual statistics collected by a legitimate organization, Ellmist. So I don't understand where you're coming from, and I certainly don't understand why my statistics are less meaningful then BiJane's. I have provided a means for you to do your own research, BiJane's points are irrelevant as she's making inaccurate assumptions about the collection of the data.

Stop white knighting for BiJane and use your head. Think for yourself, man!

I am also relying on factual statistics collected by a legitimate organization, Ellmist. So I don't understand where you're coming from, and I certainly don't understand why my statistics are less meaningful then BiJane's.

That's just wilful ignorance at this point.

I have provided a means for you to do your own research, BiJane's points are irrelevant as she's making inaccurate assumptions about the collection of the data.

I'll wait for you to actually say what they are (ideally with more evidence than "It makes me feel uncomfortable.")

Not really. I've explained why your points are irrelevant, if you want to nitpick your way out of it go ahead (but the factors! the overlooked data! the blank and blah blah blah!). Doesn't change the fact that you're a racist, more so than I am. Which I already illustrated in a previous post. All the Ellmist has done is copy/paste your exact reasoning, so I have no interest in debating with him if he's going to be you. And your reasoning is weak, so I barely want to debate with you either because you're obviously an amateur.

Not really. I've explained why you points are irrelevant, if you want to nitpick your way out of it go ahead.

Saying something doesn't make it true. The reason Elimist uses my reasoning is because you've failed to respond to literally all of it. Basic analysis of statistics is far from nitpicking.

Doesn't change the fact that you're a racist, more so than I am.

Acknowledging discrimination exists is not racism. The fact you think it is, is downright dangerous.

I am also relying on factual statistics collected by a legitimate organization, Ellmist. So I don't understand where you're coming from, and I certainly don't understand why my statistics are less meaningful then BiJane's.

they don't take into account possible discrepancies with reporting a crime when the perpetrator was white, vs when they were black. They don't take into account how people can assume a perpetrator was black. There's the matter of income inequality (which is sustained by external racism). And there's how there are non-violent crimes for which black people are disproprtionately arrested: like drug offences (I linked to sources before. Apparently you enjoy repeating a point which has already been discussed. It's not really a good habit). Oh, and of course consequences of microaggressions: tell someone they're violent, inevitably criminal etc long enough, what do you expect?

I have provided a means for you to do your own research, BiJane's points are irrelevant as she's making inaccurate assumptions about the collection of the data.

There was only one variable in each of her statistics. Race. If the disproportion of blacks to whites in the statistics doesn't imply racism, what does it imply?

Stop white knighting for BiJane and use your head. Think for yourself, man!

I examine the evidence and each sides arguments, and I concluded that you are ridiculously wrong and incredibly biased. What else do you want?

There was only one variable in my references and statistics as well: race.

That's what we're discussing, right? 

Yet somehow my statistics are less valid than someone elses'. Lol, alright. I'll concede that you're both amateur 20-somethings that can't admit to being wrong, sure. But my statistics contradict BiJane's, which should tell you something. If you can't draw conclusions from that then I have no interest in continuing to promote your reverse racism by offering responses.

Like I said earlier, I provided a means for you to educate yourself. Links, statistics, info-site about how statistics can be misleading. You know, stuff they teach in college. You have refused to do further research, instead hoping that I write some sort of personal essay on the subject with citations and references, yet BiJane can post a simple link and it's good enough for everyone else. I understand that forum favoritism exists, but it's just so pathetic to watch it in action.

There was only one variable in my references and statistics as well: race.

That's completely untrue. Race is the only stated variable, but nothing else was removed. The studies I gave, however, specifically removed all variables except for race. Yours kept every single alternative is. Eg: the ones I listed.

I understand that forum favoritism exists, but it's just so pathetic to watch it in action.

Losing a debate is nothing to do with favoritism. Blame your arguments, not everyone else. Take some damn responsibility.

If I've lost a debate then I'll admit it. I'm not a child.

You are assuming that eye-wtiness testimony is almost always unreliable. Right? The fact is, statistics show that blacks commit more crime than whites. Are you denying this? If so, please formulate a competent rebuttal. I'm tired of these playground antics on your part, BiJane.


Combined with that fact that the proportion of black suspects arrested by the police tends to match closely the proportion of offenders identified as black by victims in the National Crime Victimization Survey. To the point where, even if it it were off by a large margin, it would still show that blacks are more prone to crime than whites, mostly due to the large amount of blacks stricken by poverty. The statiscs show this, the police records show this, and mostly important your almighty reliance on numbers show this as well.



More sources, showing that blacks commit more crimes than other races.

The arrest rates agree with this for the most part:


There is evidence in police-recorded figures that black Americans are more likely to commit certain types of crime than people of other races. While it would be naďve to suggest that there is no racism in the US criminal justice system, victim reports don’t support the idea that this is because of mass discrimination.
But that's not all, police arrest records support this as well! Homicide rates support this also! There is so much evidence supporting this point of view that simply denying it because "it doesn't remove some variables" or "it's wrong" is simple juvenile. You're afraid of potentially being wrong, I get that - but at least step up and admit it.

So, BiJane. I don't understand your contention. You are simply stating that these statistics are wrong, right? Because you're the expert on the subject, of course - and you can make that judgement call because you're just so much smarter than the average bear, right? Please, grow the fuck up.  Forgive me if I don't take your word for it.

There was only one variable in my references and statistics as well: race.

Nope, as BiJane said, the statistics didn't account for non-violent crimes and reporting discrepancies.

Yet somehow my statistics are less valid than someone elses'.

Yes, because of the reasons state above.

Lol, alright. I'll concede that you're both amateur 20-somethings that can't admit to being wrong, sure.

Or, your argument is just weak and unsupported. It could be that too. Just sayin'

 

But my statistics contradict BiJane's, which should tell you something.

But they don't, so it doesn't tell me anything. How do your statistics contradict her statistic showing that employers are more likely to hire whites than blacks regardless of qualification?

If you can't draw conclusions from that then I have no interest in continuing to promote your reverse racism by offering responses.

Draw conclusions from your lack of relevant data?

Li

ke I said earlier, I provided a means for you to educate yourself. Links, statistics, info-site about how statistics can be misleading.

Which don't mean anything, because the statistics provided literally cannot imply anything else but racism If the statistics on white employment vs. black employment are "misleading", tell me, what else could they mean?
 

You have refused to do further research, instead hoping that I write some sort of personal essay on the subject with citations and references

no I don't

yet BiJane can post a simple link and it's good enough for everyone else.

See above for why her evidence is more credible than yours.

I'll say what I've said before to those exact same statistics. You haven't added anything new, why should I?

Except they don't take into account possible discrepancies with reporting a crime when the perpetrator was white, vs when they were black. They don't take into account how people can assume a perpetrator was black. There's the matter of income inequality (which is sustained by external racism). And there's how there are non-violent crimes for which black people are disproprtionately arrested: like drug offences (I linked to sources before). Oh, and of course consequences of microaggressions: tell someone they're violent, inevitably criminal etc long enough, what do you expect?

Your statistics make no effort to remove variables. We know literally nothing about how any of these were or were not taken into account: as I said, more variables are at play in that case. This is an entirely valid point.
Take just one variable: wealth. The poor by necessity commit more crimes; and black people are disproportionately poor. So, what if we examined the crime rate with respect to relative wealth, rather than just race? After all, if poverty is the key variable, comparison based on race isn't going to get you anywhere.
And what do you know?
And while that's a particularly wordy study, the highlight is: "The results of this analysis showed clearly that the effects of economic inequality on rates of violent crime were consistent with the work of Blau and his associates," where Blau advocated the 'relative deprivation thesis': the idea that increased crime rates are due to a lack of wealth, not race.

So, race is not a relevant variable. This doesn't contradict your study: your study could not possibly make a comment on the issue, because nothing else was taken into account or removed.

And this is one of the many things your statistics did not take into account.

Put it like this: imagine I did a study on comparing violent crime rate, and owning a swimming pool. I'd find that those with swimming pools would commit violent crime less often. Would that imply the two are correlated?
Or, instead, would the important thing be that those with pools are more likely to be wealthy, and so less likely to need to commit a crime?

Hate crime statistics gathered by the FBI also show that blacks commit hate crimes at double the rate of their population precentage as well. I'm sure if I looked up other statics about other types of crimes it would show similar results. It's not just homicides, it's almost all crime.

So you have to assume that the FBI is filled with white supremacists, and that the entire police force is also made up of white supremacists, to make your argument work, BiJane. And honestly, that's a completely unsupported assertion. It's your opinion, and it's wrong according to the data. That's the bare bones of this debate - and I'm sorry, but it shows that you're wrong.

You're not an expert on statistics. You are assuming that the data collected is incorrect but you have no way of determining that. If you are basing your contention on this then you are a very sorry debater. You do understand that your unprofessional opinion means nothing in a debate, right?

Are you reading literally anything I say? When someone provides logic and data that shows what you're insisting is not true, you can't just ignore it. Pretty much nothing in your most recent post is true, and I have already answered those kinds of statistics. You can't just ignore every single possible cause and variable (that are still at play and unreported on, in those observations) and insist race is the cause
Also, people don't need to be consciously racist, to be racist. People internalize all kinds of stereotypes.

And actually I've studied maths for several years now, I have a degree, I'm going to be taking an MSc next year hopefully, and statistics is very much part of maths. I've done several modules on the topic, I do know what I'm talking about.

Are you reading literally anything I say?

Not really. You've been repeating yourself for about 4 pages now, so forgive me if I don't read the entirety of each of your posts. Your points were debunked by the data provided - keep going with your diatribe, though. It's very amusing.

I've provided logic and data from several different sources now, but you keep bringing up the same tired argument about variables. You are assuming that you know better than everyone involved with these statistics, and that is the spine of your contention - so, once again.... forgive me if I don't take your word for you. I'd rather adhere to the solid data that is available than assume that it's completely incorrect - like you're suggesting.

Yes, you fancy yourself smarter than the FBI, the entirety of the police network in the America, the entirety of the federal government - I know. That's a nice fantasy, but it's not going to get you anywhere in a debate. It's fun to believe in yourself, and it provides self-esteem. You're only human, so you cannot fathom that others know what they're talking about more so than yourself - that's understandable. But you're not the homo superior here, acting like you are is just going to get you ridiculed by people who actually know what they're talking about.

Oh, and the data. Did I mention that it contradicts your points? I think I have, but I'll say it again: the data contradicts your entire argument. Find me some data that shows that blacks commit less crimes than other races in America - then we'll talk.