From the east to the west and back

Quote from: Weatherwax on May 24, 2015, 05:14:21 AM

The Sun doesn't get as high in the sky in Denmark as it does in Spain obviously. You'll have to explain your point now, coz I'm bored with this.

Exactly, the arc line will be 'flatter', but we will still see the left-to-right sun path during the day and the right-to-left path during the night (looking at the sun through a transparant earth).

Now we travel to the arctic (pole) circle in Norway on March 21st (spring). There will be a sunrise and a sunset.
What does the sun path look like during the day? A left to right movement on a 'low' arc line.
And during the night? A right to left movement of the sun on a 'low' arc line.
Agreed?

So what will we see on June 21st?

Surprise, during the day a sun path with the sun moving from left to right on an arc line
and during the night a sun path with the sun moving from right to left on an arc line.
However, the sun will be visible during the day and during the night.

So, my question is. Is this correct, there should be a movement of the sun at the artic circle from left to right during 12 hours and from right to left during the next 12 hours?

If not, please explain why the sun path would suddenly change and at what moment exactly?

No. The Sun goes ALL THE WAY ROUND THE HORIZON on June 21st in the Arctic circle.

Quote from: Tom on May 24, 2015, 05:29:23 AM

Quote from: Weatherwax on May 24, 2015, 05:14:21 AM

The Sun doesn't get as high in the sky in Denmark as it does in Spain obviously. You'll have to explain your point now, coz I'm bored with this.

Exactly, the arc line will be 'flatter', but we will still see the left-to-right sun path during the day and the right-to-left path during the night (looking at the sun through a transparant earth).

Now we travel to the arctic (pole) circle in Norway on March 21st (spring). There will be a sunrise and a sunset.
What does the sun path look like during the day? A left to right movement on a 'low' arc line.
And during the night? A right to left movement of the sun on a 'low' arc line.
Agreed?

So what will we see on June 21st?

Surprise, during the day a sun path with the sun moving from left to right on an arc line
and during the night a sun path with the sun moving from right to left on an arc line.
However, the sun will be visible during the day and during the night.

So, my question is. Is this correct, there should be a movement of the sun at the artic circle from left to right during 12 hours and from right to left during the next 12 hours?

If not, please explain why the sun path would suddenly change and at what moment exactly?

No. The Sun goes ALL THE WAY ROUND THE HORIZON on June 21st in the Arctic circle.

Please explain why the sun path will suddenly change and at what moment exactly?

Please explain why the sun path will suddenly change and at what moment exactly?

It doesn't suddenly change direction.    Try this simulator it might help visualize the sun path.   http://astro.unl.edu/naap/motion3/animations/sunmotions.html 

For Christs sake! It doesn't suddenly change. It moves smoothly around the horizon.

For Christs sake! It doesn't suddenly change. It moves smoothly around the horizon.

In Denmark the sun path will be from your position looking at the sky from left to right on an arc line during the day and from right to left on an arc line during the night (upside down); (from your position looking at the sun through a transparant earth).

At the artic circle in Norway on March 21st the sun path will be from your position looking at the sky from left to right on an arc line during the day and from right to left on an arc line during the dark night.

You would expect that at the artic circle in Norway on June 21st the sun path will be from your position looking at the sky from left to right on an arc line during the day and from right to left on an arc line during the light night.

The sun path didn't change, did it?

Stop with the left and right - its subjective and therefore meaningless. The Sun goes around the horizon all the way on June 21st near the north pole, and on December 21st near the south pole. What's the problem here?

Stop with the left and right - its subjective and therefore meaningless. The Sun goes around the horizon all the way on June 21st near the north pole, and on December 21st near the south pole. What's the problem here?

From your not-moving position on a spinning earth looking at the movement of the fixed sun, you will see the sun going from left to right on an arc line during the day and from right to left on an arc line during the night (through a transparant earth).

If this geometric 'abstraction' is too difficult for you, the logical argumentation is futile (no offence)

Maybe someone else who understands the question?

Instead of left right or east west ,  try describing your question as clockwise or anticlockwise.   

Since you are still confused, I assume you didn't  try the simulator?

Instead of left right or east west ,  try describing your question as clockwise or anticlockwise.   

Since you are still confused, I assume you didn't  try the simulator?

Your simulator is useless (no offence) regarding my 2d geometric description of the movement of the sun through the sky from where you are.

Please go outside standing on a tile. Don't move. Wait a few hours looking at the sky where the sun is (on a clear sky after sunrise) and goes travelling.

Do you see the sun moving from left to right on an (illusionary) arc line?

Quote from: Rayzor on May 24, 2015, 06:27:30 AM

Instead of left right or east west ,  try describing your question as clockwise or anticlockwise.   

Since you are still confused, I assume you didn't  try the simulator?

Your simulator is useless (no offence) regarding my 2d geometric description of the movement of the sun through the sky from where you are.

Please go outside standing on a tile. Don't move. Wait a few hours looking at the sky where the sun is (on a clear sky after sunrise) and goes travelling.

Do you see the sun moving from left to right on an (illusionary) arc line?

Not at the moment,  it's night time,  but it  moves from right to left,   anticlockwise.   rising in the east and setting in the west.

Quote from: Weatherwax on May 24, 2015, 06:12:09 AM

Stop with the left and right - its subjective and therefore meaningless. The Sun goes around the horizon all the way on June 21st near the north pole, and on December 21st near the south pole. What's the problem here?

From your not-moving position on a spinning earth looking at the movement of the fixed sun, you will see the sun going from left to right on an arc line during the day and from right to left on an arc line during the night (through a transparant earth).

If this geometric 'abstraction' is too difficult for you, the logical argumentation is futile (no offence)

Maybe someone else who understands the question?

But the horizon isn't 2 dimensional. The Sun goes round the horizon covering 360 degrees, so it travels in all directions across the sky at different times in 24 hours (near the pole in summer).

Quote from: Tom on May 24, 2015, 05:07:05 AM

Quote from: Weatherwax on May 24, 2015, 04:59:20 AM

Left and right isn't the correct terminology, you sound like cikljamas, and that's not good.

The Sun moves across the sky East to West. Always East to West.

When you are standing still for 24 hours, looking at the sky, from your point of view the sun is moving on an arc line from left to right during the day and from right to left during the night.

It is obvious.

Of course Tom, of course, you don't really need their (Satanist's) confirmation, lean on your own reason and logic that God gave to you, that's all you need (besides my ZIGZAG argument).

They are perfectly aware of incontrovertibility of this argument, but since they are perfectly aware of it's consequences, instead of admitting inevitable conclusion, they choose rather to utterly embbarass themselves, by continuously putting forward various different ridiculous and absurd excuses...

There is no escape from such an obvious and blatant truth!!!

Quote

Aha, sorry, now i know what you meant by "five orders of magnitude"...

180 degree of Sun's motion (as we know it from our reality) is possible (in this manner) only because the Sun is few hundreds or few thousands (maximally) km far away from the Earth.

If the Sun were 92 000 000 miles away from the Earth there would be my ass "five orders of magnitude"..., will you finally stop with your ridiculous and repugnant technique of spreading your disgusting lies (mixing different criteria)?



If the Earth rotated on it's axis even in lower latitudes (in summer time (principally)) we could see Sun's ZIGING and ZAGING, that is to say, we would be able to watch as the Sun goes in opposite direction every day:

1. Before 6 AM
2. After 6 PM

What is it exactly that you don't understand here?



Original post : http://www.theflatearthsociety.org/forum/index.php?topic=62346.msg1660449#msg1660449

They manipulate the gullible masses, by selling them (for centuries) their phony heliocentric theory, but ZIGZAG argument is going to put an end to this practice!!!

Nothing will ever be the same after presentation of this SIMPLE, but irrefutable and undeniable argument.

Humanity have long felt the need for such SIMPLE and BLATANT evidence!

If we presented this case in court, we all know (without any shred of doubt) that the jury would come to the verdict in favor of defenders of ZIGZAG argument!!!

This case wouldn't even go to trial (in the first place), because every sane REs would rather get the pretrial deal with the defenders of ZIGZAG argument!

Why?

Do i really need to answer this question?

P.S. Tom, prepare yourself, i am sorry that i have to say this, but this is not going to get you anywhere, because their (REs = Satanists's) profession (and they are professionals) is "beating the dead horse" all the way up until someone else (other than a horse (which is already dead)) dies, also!

The truth is the last thing they care about, better to say, they don't care about the truth AT ALL!!!

You bang on about ZIGZAG for months, then have the nerve to accuse others of flogging a dead horse? Priceless.

Listen. Once and for all:

ZIGZAG is the stupidest thing in the world. Ever.

You didn't answer last time, so I'll ask again.

Just so that I understand what you are saying,  are you actually saying that for the round earth model to work the rotation of the earth has to reverse? 

You bang on about ZIGZAG for months, then have the nerve to accuse others of flogging a dead horse? Priceless.

Listen. Once and for all:

ZIGZAG is the stupidest thing in the world. Ever.

Listen:

You didn't answer last time, so I'll ask again.

Just so that I understand what you are saying,  are you actually saying that for the round earth model to work the rotation of the earth has to reverse?

Read your own words :

http://www.theflatearthsociety.org/forum/index.php?topic=63653.msg1689166#msg1689166

You didn't answer last time, so I'll ask again.   

Just so that I understand what you are saying,  are you actually saying that for the round earth model to work the rotation of the earth has to reverse?

Just a yes or no will suffice.

There is no rotation of the Earth! How stupid you have to be to fail to understand such a simple concept (ZIGZAG)?

If you firstly don't come (in) somewhere, how can you get out of there, so there is no sense to talk about changing the direction of motion of something that is not in motion in the first place.

So, save your stupid questions, and your naive playwords for somebody else...

There is no rotation of the Earth! How stupid you have to be to fail to understand such a simple concept (ZIGZAG)?

If you firstly don't come (in) somewhere, how can you get out of there, so there is no sense to talk about changing the direction of motion of something that is not in motion in the first place.

So, save your stupid questions, and your naive playwords for somebody else...

I take it from your reply that you don't wish to commit your theory to any kind of scrutiny that doesn't assume the earth is flat as the starting point.    You do realise that position makes a mockery of your claim that zigzag disproves rotating earth,   or  are you now retracting that position.

Here is the correct path of the sun, as seen just inside the Arctic Circle  67 N,   on the Summer Solstice  June 21st at midnight.

Notice that the sun almost sets, but just misses going below the horizon at midnight.



At that latitude Before and after the Summer Solstice the sun goes below the horizon at midnight.

No Zigzag.

Of course that there is no ZIGZAG, because the Earth is at rest, and the Sun circles above the motionless Earth!!!

AN ABSENCE OF THE ZIGZAG PHENOMENA (in reality) CONSTITUTES THE CORE OF THE ZIGZAG ARGUMENT!!! - THE ZIGZAG PHENOMENA WOULD HAVE TO EXIST IF THE EARTH ROTATED!!!

THE ZIGZAG argument is a DIRECT proof against the ROTATION of the Earth!

THE ZIGZAG argument is an INDIRECT proof against the Round Earth Theory!

1. http://www.theflatearthsociety.org/forum/index.php?topic=62346.msg1661480#msg1661480

2. http://www.theflatearthsociety.org/forum/index.php?topic=62998.msg1667067#msg1667067

Rayzor, you are professional idiot!!! 

Of course that there is no ZIGZAG, because the Earth is at rest, and the Sun circles above the motionless Earth!!!

AN ABSENCE OF THE ZIGZAG PHENOMENA (in reality) CONSTITUTES THE CORE OF THE ZIGZAG ARGUMENT!!! - THE ZIGZAG PHENOMENA WOULD HAVE TO EXIST IF THE EARTH ROTATED!!!

THE ZIGZAG argument is a DIRECT proof against the ROTATION of the Earth!

THE ZIGZAG argument is an INDIRECT proof against the Round Earth Theory!

1. http://www.theflatearthsociety.org/forum/index.php?topic=62346.msg1661480#msg1661480

2. http://www.theflatearthsociety.org/forum/index.php?topic=62998.msg1667067#msg1667067

Rayzor, you are professional idiot!!! 

You got one part correct,  I'm an idiot for even thinking you could understand simple geometry.   Maybe spatial reasoning is just not in your skill set. 

Do you seriously not understand that diagram of the sun's path?

Quote from: cikljamas on May 24, 2015, 05:20:41 AM

Quote from: Tom on May 24, 2015, 05:07:05 AM

Quote from: Weatherwax on May 24, 2015, 04:59:20 AM

Left and right isn't the correct terminology, you sound like cikljamas, and that's not good.

The Sun moves across the sky East to West. Always East to West.

When you are standing still for 24 hours, looking at the sky, from your point of view the sun is moving on an arc line from left to right during the day and from right to left during the night.

It is obvious.

Of course Tom, of course, you don't really need their (Satanist's) confirmation, lean on your own reason and logic that God gave to you, that's all you need (besides my ZIGZAG argument).

They are perfectly aware of incontrovertibility of this argument, but since they are perfectly aware of it's consequences, instead of admitting inevitable conclusion, they choose rather to utterly embbarass themselves, by continuously putting forward various different ridiculous and absurd excuses...

There is no escape from such an obvious and blatant truth!!!

Quote

Aha, sorry, now i know what you meant by "five orders of magnitude"...

180 degree of Sun's motion (as we know it from our reality) is possible (in this manner) only because the Sun is few hundreds or few thousands (maximally) km far away from the Earth.

If the Sun were 92 000 000 miles away from the Earth there would be my ass "five orders of magnitude"..., will you finally stop with your ridiculous and repugnant technique of spreading your disgusting lies (mixing different criteria)?


If the Earth rotated on it's axis even in lower latitudes (in summer time (principally)) we could see Sun's ZIGING and ZAGING, that is to say, we would be able to watch as the Sun goes in opposite direction every day:

1. Before 6 AM
2. After 6 PM

What is it exactly that you don't understand here?


Original post : http://www.theflatearthsociety.org/forum/index.php?topic=62346.msg1660449#msg1660449

They manipulate the gullible masses, by selling them (for centuries) their phony heliocentric theory, but ZIGZAG argument is going to put an end to this practice!!!

Nothing will ever be the same after presentation of this SIMPLE, but irrefutable and undeniable argument.

Humanity have long felt the need for such SIMPLE and BLATANT evidence!

If we presented this case in court, we all know (without any shred of doubt) that the jury would come to the verdict in favor of defenders of ZIGZAG argument!!!

This case wouldn't even go to trial (in the first place), because every sane REs would rather get the pretrial deal with the defenders of ZIGZAG argument!

Why?

Do i really need to answer this question?

P.S. Tom, prepare yourself, i am sorry that i have to say this, but this is not going to get you anywhere, because their (REs = Satanists's) profession (and they are professionals) is "beating the dead horse" all the way up until someone else (other than a horse (which is already dead)) dies, also!

The truth is the last thing they care about, better to say, they don't care about the truth AT ALL!!!

They didn't explain why the sun path would change suddenly after June 20th at the artic circle in Norway.

This thread was a good exercise for myself to find out what the situation is.

Thank you for your help and kind words.

I will buy a transparent (beach) ball to replicate the spinning/orbiting situation/theory as shown in a planetarium. See what happens during the day and night.

There is a nice planetarium in Holland. I plan to go there. http://www.planetarium-friesland.nl/en

Next is the long distance observing expertiments. I bought a telescope and will do some experiments in two countries in the next few weeks.

Thanks again! 

Quote from: Tom on May 24, 2015, 06:34:39 AM

Quote from: Rayzor on May 24, 2015, 06:27:30 AM

Instead of left right or east west ,  try describing your question as clockwise or anticlockwise.   

Since you are still confused, I assume you didn't  try the simulator?

Your simulator is useless (no offence) regarding my 2d geometric description of the movement of the sun through the sky from where you are.

Please go outside standing on a tile. Don't move. Wait a few hours looking at the sky where the sun is (on a clear sky after sunrise) and goes travelling.

Do you see the sun moving from left to right on an (illusionary) arc line?

Not at the moment,  it's night time,  but it  moves from right to left,   anticlockwise.   rising in the east and setting in the west.

First thing tomorrow. Stand still for a few hours and you will see the sun moving on an (illusionary) arc line from left to right.
Good luck!

Quote from: Tom on May 24, 2015, 03:36:26 AM

Quote from: Weatherwax on May 24, 2015, 03:24:11 AM

Yes.

You would expect the sun path to be going from left to right on an arc line during the day as we can observe and during the night from right to left on an arc line.

Do you agree?

If you could see through the earth at night, yes, although it would still be left to right as you would have had to turn around to see it!

You don't get it.
Stand still, don't turn around, for 24 hours, in The US or Europe, and you will see the sun from sunrise to sunset travelling from left to right on an (illusionary) arc line.

During the night it will (has to) go back from the right sunset point to the left. Through an transparent earth you will see below your feet the movement of the sun from right to the left back to the sunrise point.

Quote from: Rayzor on May 24, 2015, 06:37:45 AM

Quote from: Tom on May 24, 2015, 06:34:39 AM

Quote from: Rayzor on May 24, 2015, 06:27:30 AM

Instead of left right or east west ,  try describing your question as clockwise or anticlockwise.   

Since you are still confused, I assume you didn't  try the simulator?

Your simulator is useless (no offence) regarding my 2d geometric description of the movement of the sun through the sky from where you are.

Please go outside standing on a tile. Don't move. Wait a few hours looking at the sky where the sun is (on a clear sky after sunrise) and goes travelling.

Do you see the sun moving from left to right on an (illusionary) arc line?

Not at the moment,  it's night time,  but it  moves from right to left,   anticlockwise.   rising in the east and setting in the west.

First thing tomorrow. Stand still for a few hours and you will see the sun moving on an (illusionary) arc line from left to right.
Good luck!

I'm in Australia.  The sun goes right to left.

Quote from: Tom on May 24, 2015, 09:13:34 AM

Quote from: Rayzor on May 24, 2015, 06:37:45 AM

Quote from: Tom on May 24, 2015, 06:34:39 AM

Quote from: Rayzor on May 24, 2015, 06:27:30 AM

Instead of left right or east west ,  try describing your question as clockwise or anticlockwise.   

Since you are still confused, I assume you didn't  try the simulator?

Your simulator is useless (no offence) regarding my 2d geometric description of the movement of the sun through the sky from where you are.

Please go outside standing on a tile. Don't move. Wait a few hours looking at the sky where the sun is (on a clear sky after sunrise) and goes travelling.

Do you see the sun moving from left to right on an (illusionary) arc line?

Not at the moment,  it's night time,  but it  moves from right to left,   anticlockwise.   rising in the east and setting in the west.

First thing tomorrow. Stand still for a few hours and you will see the sun moving on an (illusionary) arc line from left to right.
Good luck!

I'm in Australia.  The sun goes right to left.

Now I understand your confusion. Nice country btw.

So you are saying that in Australia during the day the sun moves from right to left on an arc line and during the night you would see below your feet ,if the earth was made of glass, the sun path from left to right on an arc line?

Quote from: Rayzor on May 24, 2015, 09:22:50 AM

I'm in Australia.  The sun goes right to left.

Now I understand your confusion. Nice country btw.

So you are saying that in Australia during the day the sun moves from right to left on an arc line and during the night you would see below your feet ,if the earth was made of glass, the sun path from left to right on an arc line?

If I was lying down with my feet facing north,  I would see the sun rise on the right and set on the left,  then if I rolled over and looked through the transparent earth I would see the sun continue from right to left,  making a full circle.
If I didn't roll over and imagined the sun behind me it would continue around the circle moving from my left to right.

Whether it's left to right,  or right to left depends on which way you are facing.

They didn't explain why the sun path would change suddenly after June 20th at the artic circle in Norway.

What do you mean? The Sun's path doesn't suddenly change after June 20th in Norway. For a few days around the summer solstice, it just peeks above the horizon. Before and after the solstice it's just under the horizon. Because the tilt of the earth is at maximum on the solstice. Why can't you people understand this?

Quote from: Tom on May 24, 2015, 09:08:35 AM

They didn't explain why the sun path would change suddenly after June 20th at the artic circle in Norway.

What do you mean? The Sun's path doesn't suddenly change after June 20th in Norway. For a few days around the summer solstice, it just peeks above the horizon. Before and after the solstice it's just under the horizon. Because the tilt of the earth is at maximum on the solstice. Why can't you people understand this?

Everywhere on the northern hemisphere Europe/US  till at least 80 degrees (above artic circle, during the Spring season) the sun starting at sunrise point has to be at the same sunrise point (about) 24 hours later. Do you agree?