Sun and earth are moving, right?

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Tom

Sun and earth are moving, right?
« on: May 21, 2015, 07:49:38 AM »
The sun together with the earth are moving through the galaxy. Right?
In what direction? In big circles around a center?


The earth is moving around the sun. Right?

Does this mean that sometimes the earth is flying faster than the sun and sometimes slower than the sun?

If the force is about orbiting around a mass object, it would mean that the sun and all the planets are encircling around a massive object/planet in de universe. Do you agree?
« Last Edit: May 21, 2015, 09:14:55 AM by Tom »

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Weatherwax

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Re: Sun and earth are moving, right?
« Reply #1 on: May 21, 2015, 08:00:31 AM »
A delusion is something that someone believes in despite a total lack of evidence - Prof. Richard Dawkins.

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Tom

Re: Sun and earth are moving, right?
« Reply #2 on: May 21, 2015, 08:45:24 AM »
Let me google that for you...

http://astrosociety.org/edu/publications/tnl/71/howfast.html

Is that a yes or a no? Did you understand the last question?

Did you ever see the force?
« Last Edit: May 21, 2015, 09:04:39 AM by Tom »

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sokarul

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Re: Sun and earth are moving, right?
« Reply #3 on: May 21, 2015, 09:14:43 AM »
Yes. The sun and earth can have different speeds.
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Tom

Re: Sun and earth are moving, right?
« Reply #4 on: May 21, 2015, 09:15:40 AM »
Yes. The sun and earth can have different speeds.

If the force is about orbiting around a mass object, it would mean that the sun and all the planets are encircling around a massive object/planet in the universe. Do you agree?
« Last Edit: May 21, 2015, 09:19:54 AM by Tom »

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Rayzor

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Re: Sun and earth are moving, right?
« Reply #5 on: May 21, 2015, 09:18:16 AM »
Yes. The sun and earth can have different speeds.

If the force is about orbiting around a mass object, it would mean that the sun and all the planets are encircling around a massive object/planet in de universe. Do you agree?

Why would you think that?
Stop gilding the pickle, you demisexual aromantic homoflexible snowflake.

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Tom

Re: Sun and earth are moving, right?
« Reply #6 on: May 21, 2015, 09:20:36 AM »
Yes. The sun and earth can have different speeds.

If the force is about orbiting around a mass object, it would mean that the sun and all the planets are encircling around a massive object/planet in the universe. Do you agree?

Why would you think that?

If not, it is a different force.

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Rayzor

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Re: Sun and earth are moving, right?
« Reply #7 on: May 21, 2015, 09:21:43 AM »
Yes. The sun and earth can have different speeds.

If the force is about orbiting around a mass object, it would mean that the sun and all the planets are encircling around a massive object/planet in the universe. Do you agree?

Why would you think that?
If not, it is a different force.

Never heard of dark energy?
Stop gilding the pickle, you demisexual aromantic homoflexible snowflake.

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Tom

Re: Sun and earth are moving, right?
« Reply #8 on: May 21, 2015, 09:25:10 AM »
Yes. The sun and earth can have different speeds.

If the force is about orbiting around a mass object, it would mean that the sun and all the planets are encircling around a massive object/planet in the universe. Do you agree?

Why would you think that?
If not, it is a different force.

Never heard of dark energy?

So, you are talking about a different force that is pulling the sun and the planets around a 'centre' with no mass?

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Rayzor

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Re: Sun and earth are moving, right?
« Reply #9 on: May 21, 2015, 09:35:29 AM »
Yes. The sun and earth can have different speeds.

If the force is about orbiting around a mass object, it would mean that the sun and all the planets are encircling around a massive object/planet in the universe. Do you agree?

Why would you think that?
If not, it is a different force.

Never heard of dark energy?

So, you are talking about a different force that is pulling the sun and the planets around a 'centre' with no mass?

Lots of things moving.    The motion of the solar system around the galactic center,   the motion of the galaxy in the local galactic cluster,  the motion of the local supercluster of galaxies,  towards the great attractor,   the fact that we are on collision course with Andromeda.   The dark energy expansion of the universe as a whole.   

If you are interested in local galactic movement,  the great attractor is interesting.   " class="bbc_link" target="_blank" rel="noopener noreferrer">

Lot's of options.  What's important is relative motion.


Stop gilding the pickle, you demisexual aromantic homoflexible snowflake.

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sokarul

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Re: Sun and earth are moving, right?
« Reply #10 on: May 21, 2015, 09:39:16 AM »
Yes. The sun and earth can have different speeds.

If the force is about orbiting around a mass object, it would mean that the sun and all the planets are encircling around a massive object/planet in the universe. Do you agree?
I believe there is a theory that at either milky way's center there is a black hole. And remember, gravity is said not to be a force.
ANNIHILATOR OF  SHIFTER

It's no slur if it's fact.

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Tom

Re: Sun and earth are moving, right?
« Reply #11 on: May 21, 2015, 09:57:23 AM »
Yes. The sun and earth can have different speeds.

If the force is about orbiting around a mass object, it would mean that the sun and all the planets are encircling around a massive object/planet in the universe. Do you agree?
I believe there is a theory that at either milky way's center there is a black hole. And remember, gravity is said not to be a force.

So, there are at least five different forces at work in the universe:

-1- the pull of objects towards the center of the global earth (gravity on earth)
-2- the force that makes the earth spinning.
-3- the gravitational pull of the heaviest object around (the sun) that makes other 'light' objects orbiting it.
-4- the sideway movements of planets see, http://spaceplace.nasa.gov/review/dr-marc-solar-system/planet-orbits.html
-5- the orbiting of the sun and the planets around a 'reference point' (centre) with no mass (no object).

Hell of a job to make a decent theory about all these different forces and the interaction amongst them.

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Rayzor

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Re: Sun and earth are moving, right?
« Reply #12 on: May 21, 2015, 09:59:18 AM »
Yes. The sun and earth can have different speeds.

If the force is about orbiting around a mass object, it would mean that the sun and all the planets are encircling around a massive object/planet in the universe. Do you agree?
I believe there is a theory that at either milky way's center there is a black hole. And remember, gravity is said not to be a force.

Yes, there is a supermassive black hole in the center of the milky way,  mass of 1 million suns,  chewing up stars.   Not a good neighbourhood to settle in.  Massive Xray bursts etc.

The jury is still out on Gravity,   the BICEP2 telescope at the South Pole, has detected gravitational waves.   I came across the research when looking at South Pole stuff, but haven't taken the time to follow up.
The big mystery with gravity is why is it so weak,  when compared with Strong Nuclear, Weak Nuclear, and Electromagnetic.   One of the experiments at CERN is ALICE, where they are studying the quark gluon plasma that existed only a short time after the big bang,  and the regular forces don't exist at those energy levels.  They only "freeze" out at lower energy levels, so maybe those guys will make the breakthrough on gravity.  They are supposed to reach energy levels where they will be able to detect Super Symmetric particles sometime this year.   I spent a week on campus at CERN last year.  Amazing place.

 
Stop gilding the pickle, you demisexual aromantic homoflexible snowflake.

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Tom

Re: Sun and earth are moving, right?
« Reply #13 on: May 21, 2015, 10:00:49 AM »
Yes. The sun and earth can have different speeds.

If the force is about orbiting around a mass object, it would mean that the sun and all the planets are encircling around a massive object/planet in the universe. Do you agree?
I believe there is a theory that at either milky way's center there is a black hole. And remember, gravity is said not to be a force.

Yes, there is a supermassive black hole in the center of the milky way,  mass of 1 million suns,  chewing up stars.   Not a good neighbourhood to settle in.  Massive Xray bursts etc.

The jury is still out on Gravity,   the BICEP2 telescope at the South Pole, has detected gravitational waves.   I came across the research when looking at South Pole stuff, but haven't taken the time to follow up.
The big mystery with gravity is why is it so weak,  when compared with Strong Nuclear, Weak Nuclear, and Electromagnetic.   One of the experiments at CERN is ALICE, where they are studying the quark gluon plasma that existed only a short time after the big bang,  and the regular forces don't exist at those energy levels.  They only "freeze" out at lower energy levels, so maybe those guys will make the breakthrough on gravity.  They are supposed to reach energy levels where they will be able to detect Super Symmetric particles sometime this year.   I spent a week on campus at CERN last year.  Amazing place.

 

So, there are at least five different forces at work in the universe:

-1- the pull of objects towards the center of the global earth (gravity on earth)
-2- the force that makes the earth spinning.
-3- the gravitational pull of the heaviest object around (the sun) that makes other 'light' objects orbiting it.
-4- the sideway movements of planets see, http://spaceplace.nasa.gov/review/dr-marc-solar-system/planet-orbits.html
-5- the orbiting of the sun and the planets around a 'reference point' (centre) with no mass (no object).

Hell of a job to make a decent theory about all these different forces and the interaction amongst them.

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sokarul

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Re: Sun and earth are moving, right?
« Reply #14 on: May 21, 2015, 10:04:17 AM »
Incorrect. Try again.
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Tom

Re: Sun and earth are moving, right?
« Reply #15 on: May 21, 2015, 10:07:07 AM »
Incorrect. Try again.

What kind of answer is that?

There are five different forces or your so called force is doing five different things (and probably more)

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sokarul

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Re: Sun and earth are moving, right?
« Reply #16 on: May 21, 2015, 10:16:35 AM »
One gravitational field can accomplish all you listed.
ANNIHILATOR OF  SHIFTER

It's no slur if it's fact.

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Tom

Re: Sun and earth are moving, right?
« Reply #17 on: May 21, 2015, 10:50:46 AM »
One gravitational field can accomplish all you listed.

good luck with your belief

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sokarul

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Re: Sun and earth are moving, right?
« Reply #18 on: May 21, 2015, 10:55:45 AM »
One gravitational field can accomplish all you listed.

good luck with your belief
It's not a belief. If you understood gravitation you wouldn't have a problem with it.
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Misero

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Re: Sun and earth are moving, right?
« Reply #19 on: May 21, 2015, 10:59:20 AM »
The sun is going around a supermassive black hole. I mean, it does not work exactly this way, so a type of invisible matter dubbed "Dark Matter" has been included. While not proven, it's effects can be seen.
Sometimes you just can't know everything, I suppose.
I am the worst moderator ever.

Sometimes I wonder: "Why am  I on this site?"
Then I look at threads about clouds not existing and I go back to posting and lurking. Lurk moar.

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Tom

Re: Sun and earth are moving, right?
« Reply #20 on: May 21, 2015, 11:01:29 AM »
One gravitational field can accomplish all you listed.

good luck with your belief
It's not a belief. If you understood gravitation you wouldn't have a problem with it.

you don't understand it, but believe what you want.

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mikeman7918

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Re: Sun and earth are moving, right?
« Reply #21 on: May 21, 2015, 11:08:03 AM »
I fully agree with everything you said in your original post.
I am having a video war with Jeranism.
See the thread about it here.

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sokarul

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Re: Sun and earth are moving, right?
« Reply #22 on: May 21, 2015, 11:15:04 AM »
One gravitational field can accomplish all you listed.

good luck with your belief
It's not a belief. If you understood gravitation you wouldn't have a problem with it.

you don't understand it, but believe what you want.
I don't completely understand it but I know it enough to know it's a good theory.
ANNIHILATOR OF  SHIFTER

It's no slur if it's fact.

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mikeman7918

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Re: Sun and earth are moving, right?
« Reply #23 on: May 21, 2015, 11:36:42 AM »
So, there are at least five different forces at work in the universe:

-1- the pull of objects towards the center of the global earth (gravity on earth)
-2- the force that makes the earth spinning.
-3- the gravitational pull of the heaviest object around (the sun) that makes other 'light' objects orbiting it.
-4- the sideway movements of planets see, http://spaceplace.nasa.gov/review/dr-marc-solar-system/planet-orbits.html
-5- the orbiting of the sun and the planets around a 'reference point' (centre) with no mass (no object).

Hell of a job to make a decent theory about all these different forces and the interaction amongst them.

When you introduced yourself you said that you don't understand physics, and that definitely shows here.  The momentum of the Sun and the Earth and the rotation of the Earth are not forces, it's simply momentum.  A force by definition causes a change in momentum and that means that the only force at work is gravity.  Gravity attracts every object to every other, meaning that as the Earth orbits the Sun it causes the Sun to wobble a bit.  Gravity is proportional to mass, meaning that the acceleration induced on the Earth and the Sun by the black hole at the center of the Galaxy is exactaly the same.  One great example of this is the International Space Station which orbits the Earth at 17,000 miles per hour and gets pulled on by the Earth almost as much as objects on the ground and yet from inside the station there are no indications that it's even moving.  Frames of reference are not absolute and any one is as good as any other, because if this we can ignore the pull of the black hole at the center of the Galaxy and the momentum of the Sun and that would be just as good, in which case it's just the Earth orbiting the stationary Sun and because the Earth is in free fall around the Sun the only force we feel is the Earth's gravity.  This is why we don't feel like we are moving.
I am having a video war with Jeranism.
See the thread about it here.

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Tom

Re: Sun and earth are moving, right?
« Reply #24 on: May 21, 2015, 12:55:18 PM »
So, there are at least five different forces at work in the universe:

-1- the pull of objects towards the center of the global earth (gravity on earth)
-2- the force that makes the earth spinning.
-3- the gravitational pull of the heaviest object around (the sun) that makes other 'light' objects orbiting it.
-4- the sideway movements of planets see, http://spaceplace.nasa.gov/review/dr-marc-solar-system/planet-orbits.html
-5- the orbiting of the sun and the planets around a 'reference point' (centre) with no mass (no object).

Hell of a job to make a decent theory about all these different forces and the interaction amongst them.

When you introduced yourself you said that you don't understand physics, and that definitely shows here.  The momentum of the Sun and the Earth and the rotation of the Earth are not forces, it's simply momentum.  A force by definition causes a change in momentum and that means that the only force at work is gravity.  Gravity attracts every object to every other, meaning that as the Earth orbits the Sun it causes the Sun to wobble a bit.  Gravity is proportional to mass, meaning that the acceleration induced on the Earth and the Sun by the black hole at the center of the Galaxy is exactaly the same.  One great example of this is the International Space Station which orbits the Earth at 17,000 miles per hour and gets pulled on by the Earth almost as much as objects on the ground and yet from inside the station there are no indications that it's even moving.  Frames of reference are not absolute and any one is as good as any other, because if this we can ignore the pull of the black hole at the center of the Galaxy and the momentum of the Sun and that would be just as good, in which case it's just the Earth orbiting the stationary Sun and because the Earth is in free fall around the Sun the only force we feel is the Earth's gravity.  This is why we don't feel like we are moving.

You think you know what gravity is, because you think you know what the results should be in an universe full of balls and because of the movements you think can be observed from the earth, but be honest you don't know what it really is.

Same when you look at a tree. You look at it and think that you know what it is, the thing you call tree which is nothing more than a word you learned at school and some characteristics you learned to recognize. But you don't know what a tree really is.
« Last Edit: May 21, 2015, 12:58:31 PM by Tom »

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Mikey T.

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Re: Sun and earth are moving, right?
« Reply #25 on: May 21, 2015, 01:09:42 PM »
Much like any communication is, sounds we make as animals that we taught each other have meanings.  We then made an alphabet and written words to convey information in that way too.  So your argument about the name of the tree has no bearing on this subject.  The word for gravity, the word for tree, the word for stupid means nothing other than what we were taught they meant.
Keep trying young padawan, you will get that troll badge soon enough.

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Tom

Re: Sun and earth are moving, right?
« Reply #26 on: May 21, 2015, 01:36:08 PM »
Much like any communication is, sounds we make as animals that we taught each other have meanings.  We then made an alphabet and written words to convey information in that way too.  So your argument about the name of the tree has no bearing on this subject.  The word for gravity, the word for tree, the word for stupid means nothing other than what we were taught they meant.
Keep trying young padawan, you will get that troll badge soon enough.

you really think you know everything about Life.

So, what is Life?
What is energy?
What is gravity?

Please don't describe some results you think you see or how you can exploit it or what you can do to manipulate it.

What is it?
« Last Edit: May 21, 2015, 01:41:57 PM by Tom »

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mikeman7918

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Re: Sun and earth are moving, right?
« Reply #27 on: May 21, 2015, 08:21:44 PM »
I never claimed to know everything about gravity, but I have a good enough idea to be able to predict it and I do understand how it works quite well even though nobody know what causes it.
I am having a video war with Jeranism.
See the thread about it here.

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Mikey T.

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Re: Sun and earth are moving, right?
« Reply #28 on: May 21, 2015, 09:27:43 PM »
Much like any communication is, sounds we make as animals that we taught each other have meanings.  We then made an alphabet and written words to convey information in that way too.  So your argument about the name of the tree has no bearing on this subject.  The word for gravity, the word for tree, the word for stupid means nothing other than what we were taught they meant.
Keep trying young padawan, you will get that troll badge soon enough.

you really think you know everything about Life.

So, what is Life?
What is energy?
What is gravity?

Please don't describe some results you think you see or how you can exploit it or what you can do to manipulate it.

What is it?
Why are you bringing up this again?  I pointed out that your question had n bearing on the discussion.  You are trying hard to troll, but are failing. 
You asked in another thread to describe theories without math.  Math is the only thing that can prove anything.  It is not subjective, it is what it is. 
I have also never claimed to know everything about life, I do see that I know a bit more than you do.  I have lived a pretty full life so far and am happy with it.  I clearly have a better understanding about things like physics than you do, since your only motivation seems to be to derail threads and use troll tactics to get into arguments.  Throwing random things into a debate thread just to argue something you think you understand because you do not understand what is being debated is trolling.
So how would you describe gravity without describing the results of it?  It is a force, not some thing you can touch.  Quantum theory tries to unite it into a single field theory with the other fundamental forces, yet a carrier particle still hasn't been discovered for it, so it doesn't fit there as of yet.  It may be something totally different than the other fundamental forces, and if they ever do find that it is a different type of thing than those that fit into the unified field theory, then after much testing and math, they will probably change the theories to match the findings.  This is how science does work.  If there is something that is unknown, you try to figure out the unknowns.  If we knew everything, science would be boring and pretty much non-existent. 
As for energy, that is not a cut and dry what is it question.  Energy an matter are interchangeable.  It is energy.  Asking those type of questions is a never ending loop of why and what.  You can always ask why, or what makes this thing up, on and on into smaller and smaller things until you have no answer.  Just like life.  I could explain it in biological terms, yet you would ask well why does life happen, we could go into discussions about life being the use of energy, then we would be back to the what is energy.  It is not something that you could very well never accept an answer for. 

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Rayzor

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Re: Sun and earth are moving, right?
« Reply #29 on: May 21, 2015, 09:53:17 PM »
you really think you know everything about Life.

So, what is Life?
What is energy?
What is gravity?

Please don't describe some results you think you see or how you can exploit it or what you can do to manipulate it.

What is it?

Too easy,   

Life is what you make it.
Energy is what gets me up in the morning.
Gravity is what will kill you if you step off a high building. 

Here's one for you,   What is the meaning of life the universe and everything?

« Last Edit: May 21, 2015, 09:54:54 PM by Rayzor »
Stop gilding the pickle, you demisexual aromantic homoflexible snowflake.