JackBlack, muddying the water (as well as twisting my words) won't help!
Nope. Not muddying the waters. You do enough of that already. Why would I make it worse?
And no, I haven't been twisting your words at all, but you sure do love twisting other peoples to blatantly lie about things.
1. These 0,04 degrees per hour is still 46 % of the difference between two alleged relative motions of the moon which don't exist. Had these two different DAILY speeds existed we would have known about them, until this day.
No.
Firstly, where did you pull the number from?
These -0.04 degrees per 5 minutes is the apparent angular velocity of the moon when correcting for the solar day and you being offset from the axis of Earth/centre of the moon's circular path. It is not a difference at all.
The difference is 0.016 degrees due to you being offset from the axis of Earth/centre of the moon's circular path.
This means the apparent motion of the moon changes between 1.202 degrees, and 1.218 degrees. This is expected in both models, the HC one and the GC one. The only way to change it is to change the relative sizes or the average speed.
That is not a 46% difference.
The 46% difference comes from correcting for the rotation of Earth (and technically orbit) or the average motion of the sun around Earth.
In this case you go from -0.048 to -0.032 degrees. This is a difference of 50% (I am fine accepting that 46% comes from a more accurate measure).
Again, this is expected in both models.
2. So, if changed direction of earth's motion (Noon time) doesn't matter then how come that we talk about alleged 46 % of the difference between two allegedly different DAILY relative speeds of the moon, in the first place?
So many errors I hardly no where to begin.
Firstly, the direction of Earth's motion does matter, and it does not change.
In both cases it is rotating in the same direction. When viewed from above the north pole, Earth is rotating CCW. This is the same at both midday and midnight.
You are the one repeatedly talking about a 46% difference. I am talking about a much smaller difference in apparent motion of the moon. It is a 1.3% difference.
This is because the translation of the spot of Earth you are on is an insignificant contributor. I say it is insignificant because it's effects are less than 5%. Yes, it still has an effect, but it is very small compared to the more significant effect of the motion of the moon along its orbit and the much more significant effect of Earth's rotation.
So if you wish to discuss the difference, discuss the 1.3% difference, as that is what most people would be looking for.
3. Show me ONE SINGLE peer review article or ANY KIND of article ever published anywhere, which corroborates the existence of such phenomena!
No. It is entirely irrelevant to the argument at hand.
The same phenomenon is expected in both the GC and HC models.
What dictates this phenomenon is the ratio of the distances (i.e. your distance/the moon's distance, both measured from the centre of the moon's path and centre of Earth's axis.
If you wish to claim that the moon is much further away, then we can start discussing if it exists or not.
4. Our motion is much more decisive than moon's alleged eastward motion, that is why the moon supposedly appears to move westward. The amount of displacement of moon's "apparent" westward (CW) motion : 2,5 diameters of moon's apparent angular diameter (or 1,25 degrees/5min.). IF YOU CHANGED THE DIRECTION OF EARTH'S ALLEGED SPIN YOU WILL CHANGE THE DIRECTION OF MOON'S APPARENT MOTION.
Yes, if you changed the direction of Earth's spin but kept everything else the same you will change the direction of the moon's apparent motion. You would also change its magnitude. Ignoring the issue of the solar day changing, the moon's motion in 5 minutes would go from an average of 1.21 degrees to -1.29 degrees.
But who really cares? THAT NEVER HAPPENS!!!
Earth keeps spinning in the same direction. It never magically stops and starts going back the other way.
This is why the moon appears to move westwards when it is on the same side of Earth as you, and why it appears to move eastwards when it is on the opposite side of Earth to you.
Because the Earth's CCW motion makes the moon appear to move in a CW circle around you.
You can muddy the water by calling on circular motion and by doing that you can even achieve your ultimate goal (which is : to confuse other people), but to make this thing absolutely simple i restricted our hypothetical measurement to 5 minutes around Noon and around Midnight (which measurement would have to take place within 24 hours of one single polar Arctic day).
Again, I AM NOT CALLING ON CIRCULAR MOTION!!!!!
I am pointing out that Earth is rotating and that is the most dominant effect.
My goal is to point out your lies and explain what we would actually expect, vs your blatant lies about them.
Within these 5 minutes the moon is going to move 1,25 degrees (which is 2,5 apparent moon's diameters).
No. Within these 5 minutes the moon is going to move roughly 1.21 degrees, when measure along the celestial equator.
The main cause of this is Earth's -1.25 degree rotation.
The next most significant cause is the moon's -0.04 degree motion along its orbit. Note: -(-1.25)-0.04=1.21.
The circular path of the point of Earth you are on has very little to do with it and amounts to a 0.008 degree change (in either direction).
This means the actual apparent motion of the moon will be 1.202 or 1.218 degrees, a difference of 1.3%.
Only this displacement wouldn't be in the same direction at Noon (vs at Midnight) if the earth turned on it's axis, as simple as that.
That all depends upon how you measure it.
If you go for East-West, then that is correct. It wouldn't be in the same direction.
That is because at one time you are facing south, and thus the section of a CW path from above, which is in front of you, would be east-west, and thus the moon would appear to go to the west.
At the other time you are facing north, and thus the section of a CW path from above, which is in front of you, would be west-east, and thus the moon would appear to go to the west.
However, that is not the only way to measure it.
You can also measure that CW motion, or just note that it appears to go to the right.
Why?
Because the same decisive factor (alleged rotation of the earth) would be responsible not only for non-existing opposite outcome regarding 46 % alleged difference in two different relative DAILY moon's motion but it would be also responsible for one other (much more serious) opposite outcome = an apparent displacement of moon's angular diameter would occur in an opposite direction than it would occur at Noon (in relation to the result of our observation which would take place at Midnight).
No. Do you know why?
Because the same device factor(s), Earth's -1.25 degree motion (and the moon's -0.04 degree motion) will still result in the same apparent motion of the moon, i.e. an apparent angular displacement of 1.21 degrees, making the 0.008 degrees unable to effect the moon's apparent direction.
What is the significance of restricting our measurement periods to 5 minutes around Noon and around Midnight?
It means we can treat the translational components as a straight line, making it much simpler to calculate the apparent motion.
Avoiding "circular motion" confusion!!!
You are the only one appealing to circular motion.
Having the piece of dirt you are on travel in a roughly straight line doesn't magically move the rotation.
I repeat :
While 4km distant moon (in our scaled down model) moved 3 m to the LEFT we moved (on our merry go round) 0,5 meter to the LEFT (also), and expecting result of our 0,5 m long motion should be apparent translation of our moon to the RIGHT for 2,5 apparent moon's diameters. While we are traveling these 0,5 m long trip we have to surmount 0,68mm bulge (which is less than 1 fucking mm which is less than 25th part of one fucking inch), and such lateral motion you are still ready to call "circular motion" (due to the fact that we have to overcome less than a whole 25th part of one fucking inch by moving along 0,5 meters (out of 157 m of total circumference) long path of our 50m (in diameter) big merry go round)?
Repeating the strawman wont magically make you right. You are the only one appealing to a strawman.
I repeat, with your 4km distant moon, the mere -1.25 degree rotation of Earth still has you looking (assuming no correction) -1.25 degrees away from where the moon was. Scaled up that means your -1.25 degree rotation has resulted in the moon appearing to move 87 m. This is because you are now looking at a point that is 87 m away from where the moon originally was. This is quite significant compared to your pathetic 3m motion to the left or right.
Again:
THE CIRCULAR PATH HAS NOTHING TO DO WITH IT!!! IT IS THE ROTATION OF EARTH WHICH DOES!!!!In this video you can see lateral and rotational translation
Yes and you make it impossible to tell the difference between them with your pathetic shaky hands.
I have pointed out that the rotation will be the most significant.
Also, rotational translation makes no sense. Translation by definition is just lateral movement, not rotation.
however rotational translation you can disregard since this particular rotational translation happens around the center of the fixed axis (as if we were centered at the north pole), but you can't disregard our lateral translation because you couldn't say the difference between this lateral translation and rotational motion along 0,5 m while turning CCW on our 50 m (in diameter) merry go round which represents our Arctic circle...
NO! You cannot disregard the rotation. That is because a rotation of -1.25 degrees will result in an apparent motion of all objects by 1.25 degrees.
Meanwhile, the lateral motion amounts to a pathetic 0.008 degrees.
If you are going to disregard one, it would be the translation, not the rotation.
If you want to compare the 2 you would need to accurate translate the camera without any rotation and then rotate the camera without any translation.
Or at least do one without the other.
Perhaps a better one would be to simply rotate the camera by a fixed amount while translating it left, and then do the same while translating it right, translating the same amount.
Guess what? Your pathetic attempt at translation failed miserably. That is because as well as translating the camera, you rotated it, as I have pointed out before.
You start with the line running diagonally up to the right for the roof in front, but then after your "translation" to the left, it runs diagonally up to the left.
This indicates you are rotating the camera as well.
But your video sure does show one thing, the rotation produces a very significant effect.
But your comment at the end is a blatant lie.
You haven't bothered showing the close roof. Is that because you know it would allow easy detection of the difference?
At best all it shows is that your translation was insignificant and the dominant factor in the apparent motion in the first case was the rotation.
Perhaps you should get a theodolite app and use that to take pictures so it can show your bearing (even better if you can take a video)?
So, there is no doubt that the final result would be an apparent motion of the moon to the west (in noon HC scenario), that is to say : in the same direction in which the moon travels within HC scenario at noon as observed from the Arctic circle during appropriate Polar Night when the moon is visible 24 hours a day...
No, there is no doubt that the rotation will be the most significant effect and thus for an observer on the artic circle the moon will appear to move roughly 1.25 degree to the right regardless of if it is mid day or mid night. The apparent movement due to their translation will amount to roughly 0.008 degrees.
this would be the result on the basis of what has been recorded in my experiment :
Your experiment is horribly flawed and without control.
You have a combination of rotation and translation, with no easy way to separate them.