# Is horizon always at eye level?

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#### iWitness

• 1173
• If the earth is round then what is your problem?
##### Re: Is horizon always at eye level?
« Reply #60 on: May 19, 2015, 12:26:14 PM »
Disclaimer: I am confused. Everything I say is speculative and not admissible in a court of law; however, I am neither insane nor a threat to myself or others. I am simply curious about everything in life and enjoy talking about crazy shit. Oh, & btw I like turtles.

#### Cartesian

• 1965
##### Re: Is horizon always at eye level?
« Reply #61 on: May 19, 2015, 01:27:13 PM »

I seriously don't know why you think the base of a building has to be higher than the horizon on a round earth. And by the way, you haven't addressed the fact that the horizon is located below eye level which is the point of this thread. The illustration below shows how I saw the building in relation to the horizon. The building is well below the horizon and most importantly the earth is round. Remember, the drawing is not to scale.

I think, therefore I am

#### iWitness

• 1173
• If the earth is round then what is your problem?
##### Re: Is horizon always at eye level?
« Reply #62 on: May 19, 2015, 02:42:33 PM »
But the horizon is at eye level... not looking down 45 degrees as in your diagram.
Disclaimer: I am confused. Everything I say is speculative and not admissible in a court of law; however, I am neither insane nor a threat to myself or others. I am simply curious about everything in life and enjoy talking about crazy shit. Oh, & btw I like turtles.

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#### inquisitive

• 5107
##### Re: Is horizon always at eye level?
« Reply #63 on: May 19, 2015, 02:49:20 PM »
But the horizon is at eye level... not looking down 45 degrees as in your diagram.
If you are above ground level the horizon is below you.

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#### Alpha2Omega

• 4048
##### Re: Is horizon always at eye level?
« Reply #64 on: May 19, 2015, 05:38:44 PM »
hoppy, that was hysterical to read, and a spectacular job of dragging red herrings across the trail!

This horizon is less than 1degree lower than flat.  Within the margin of error for a hand held device.
Even though you were reading the wrong scale, you do bring up a good point here.

Cartesian, is there a way to calibrate that app? Calculate the angle to horizon from 200 meters; it is slightly downward, but a lot less than the 1.8° indicated.

Everything from hoppy after is, as someone said recently "pure comedy gold" and a legendary example of attempting to divert from an uncomfortable topic. You must have held 'em off for a couple hours, at least.

In that same post you move right along to

Quote
Even the the azimuth is reading 90.
Warm 'em up with a good chorus of WTF?...

then into the bafflegab

Either side, left or right will be lower. If you look out of the other sides of the building, you will see that you are on top of a circle. The limiting factor is your eyesight, you can see to the horizon in a radius. For example if you can see 200 miles straight ahead, itwill be a bit shorter to the left and right, as the 200 miles will be diagonal.
The most important factor is the straight ahead azimuth reading. If it reads 90, it is flat.
This is great stuff! Distance to horizon looking left, right, and straight ahead from a building are different! The diagonal of a circle!

Why is 90° azimuth "straight ahead?" Is this the building in Monty Python's The Crimson Permanent Assurance ("Sailing the Accountancy") short[nb]This is a 16 1/2-minute video. It's worth it if you have the time and suitable bandwidth. You were warned. Here's a plot synopsis if you prefer.[/nb]? Given the ending of that story, I can see how it fits your ideas. What if the building is sailing west instead of east? Is the horizon even closer or further away when looking "aft", maybe from the little room with the teakettle or something?

I am trying to tell you that to the left or right side is going to be lower than the straight ahead. If your vision can see 200 miles straight ahead to the horizon, and you can see 200 miles to the right and left. Then you have a semi circle, where anything to the right and left will be lower than straight ahead. That will make a circle, which is different thana sphere.

Now you really flog the 200 miles to horizon from a completely different discussion. There's obviously an MotRH[nb]Master of the Red Herring.[/nb] at work here. The left-right-ahead thing has already been done, but no one is at the top of his game all the time.

IDK why you are trying be difficult.
OK... now a feint. Deflection sometimes works.

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I am just saying the horizon is a circle around you.
One with a diagonal! You don't see those every day! And different distances in different directions! That's some circle.

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Of course the phone app is going to show lower to the left and right. Straight ahead the horizon is eyelevel, pretty much what the app is saying.
So the horizon is lower left and right, and higher straight ahead? And it's still a circle! A circle with a diagonal!

Brilliant! Thanks for the laughs and you wield a ripe herring! Well done!

Who writes your material?

"Everyone is entitled to his own opinion, but not to his own facts." - Daniel Patrick Moynihan

#### Son of Orospu

• Jura's b*tch and proud of it!
• Planar Moderator
• 37834
• I have artificial intelligence
##### Re: Is horizon always at eye level?
« Reply #65 on: May 19, 2015, 05:55:16 PM »
Either side, left or right will be lower. If you look out of the other sides of the building, you will see that you are on top of a circle. The limiting factor is your eyesight, you can see to the horizon in a radius. For example if you can see 200 miles straight ahead, itwill be a bit shorter to the left and right, as the 200 miles will be diagonal.

Please refer to the first link in my forum signature where that notion is debunked.
This notion is true, I saw it from 22nd floor of my oceanfront condo last year. That dude in the vidoe is wrong saying that you should be able to see across the ocean. Everything on earth appears smaller as you increase distance from it. Think about a plane flying. It does not disappear by going around the earth in the atmosphere. It stays high until it is too far away to see, it shrinks in your vision until it vanishes. It does not go around a sphere until it is blocked by the earth.

Yeah, things get smaller as you get further away and THAT'S WHAT HE CALCULATED!  He calculated the angular size of Bew York from across the ocean and determined that it should be visible with the naked eye because it would apear to be almost the size of the Moon does in the sky.  He explained it with small words and explained all his math and yet you still didn't get it.  Why am I not supprised.
That guy sounds like an idiot.  I can hardly see a mountain that is 100 miles away on a clear day.  Not because the Earth is round, but because the air is not perfectly transparent.  Yet, this guy thinks he should be able to see a continent from across the ocean.  What a moron.

#### Rayzor

• 11826
• Looking for Occam
##### Re: Is horizon always at eye level?
« Reply #66 on: May 19, 2015, 09:16:28 PM »
If you are above ground level the horizon is below you.

Plus, you can add that any day above ground is a good day.
Stop gilding the pickle, you demisexual aromantic homoflexible snowflake.

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#### modestman

• 593
##### Re: Is horizon always at eye level?
« Reply #67 on: May 20, 2015, 12:46:33 AM »
Oh rayzor i wait the day you lose your job when nasa admit they can't send the masses to space what they will do then ?
what will you do ? when we meet you in street and know you went all the way just for money you have no morals you bastard.

#### sceptimatic

• Flat Earth Scientist
• 28478
##### Re: Is horizon always at eye level?
« Reply #68 on: May 20, 2015, 01:00:16 AM »
The horizon is always at eye level. It has to be. It cannot be any other way but get this. This would be the case on any shaped Earth so the argument is pointless.

#### Cartesian

• 1965
##### Re: Is horizon always at eye level?
« Reply #69 on: May 20, 2015, 04:22:25 AM »
But the horizon is at eye level... not looking down 45 degrees as in your diagram.

I said it was not drawn to scale. If it was, the building would be just a dot. Tell me you are just being silly right?
I think, therefore I am

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#### inquisitive

• 5107
##### Re: Is horizon always at eye level?
« Reply #70 on: May 20, 2015, 04:30:55 AM »
The horizon is always at eye level. It has to be. It cannot be any other way but get this. This would be the case on any shaped Earth so the argument is pointless.
If you are above the ground it is below the horizontal.

#### Cartesian

• 1965
##### Re: Is horizon always at eye level?
« Reply #71 on: May 20, 2015, 04:31:20 AM »
Cartesian, is there a way to calibrate that app?

There is a way to calibrate the sensors in the phone. I used Bubble Level for Android to calibrate my accelerometer (the sensor used to measure tilt in the smartphones). I think this is more about how steady your hand can be as the sensor is very sensitive. That's why I asked the crowd here to use it and post the result here. Maybe some of you have steadier hands than me.

In a way, I am glad that we cannot calibrate the App because otherwise, we will see pictures where the horizon is at eye level from FE'rs, or where the horizon is above eye level from the proponent of concave earth.
I think, therefore I am

#### mathsman

• 487
• one of the lads
##### Re: Is horizon always at eye level?
« Reply #72 on: May 20, 2015, 07:24:07 AM »
The horizon is always at eye level. It has to be. It cannot be any other way but get this. This would be the case on any shaped Earth so the argument is pointless.

Surely the horizon is below eye level? If you are standing on a beach your feet are on much the same level as the water and your eyes are a few feet above that. The horizon comes into your field of view because it is far away.

#### iWitness

• 1173
• If the earth is round then what is your problem?
##### Re: Is horizon always at eye level?
« Reply #73 on: May 20, 2015, 08:41:18 AM »
The only reason the horizon appears at eye level is because the earth is really really flat.

Disclaimer: I am confused. Everything I say is speculative and not admissible in a court of law; however, I am neither insane nor a threat to myself or others. I am simply curious about everything in life and enjoy talking about crazy shit. Oh, & btw I like turtles.

#### Rayzor

• 11826
• Looking for Occam
##### Re: Is horizon always at eye level?
« Reply #74 on: May 20, 2015, 09:10:37 AM »
The only reason the horizon appears at eye level is because the earth is really really flat.
No, the only reason there is a horizon at all is because the earth is round,  on a flat earth at the vanishing point all you would have is a fuzzy blue boundary,  and  with a good telescope you could see up to about 300 km on a perfectly clear day, and with atmospheric aerosols and other pollutants  the limit of visibility would be much less,  maybe  40 or 50 km, on an average day.  Probably a lot less in downtown Beijing.

The fact that there is a clearly delineated horizon at all is proof of the earth's curvature.

Those balloon pictures with the fuzzy blue boundary show what the ground level horizon would look like if the earth was flat.
« Last Edit: May 20, 2015, 09:12:58 AM by Rayzor »
Stop gilding the pickle, you demisexual aromantic homoflexible snowflake.

#### Cartesian

• 1965
##### Re: Is horizon always at eye level?
« Reply #75 on: May 20, 2015, 09:16:07 AM »
The only reason the horizon appears at eye level is because the earth is really really flat.

Your eyes can deceive you, don't trust them. The horizon looks round to me in that picture. Once again, technology proves that the earth is round. Ahaaa!!!

I think, therefore I am

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#### modestman

• 593
##### Re: Is horizon always at eye level?
« Reply #76 on: May 20, 2015, 10:03:37 AM »
The only reason the horizon appears at eye level is because the earth is really really flat.

Your eyes can deceive you, don't trust them. The horizon looks round to me in that picture. Once again, technology proves that the earth is round. Ahaaa!!!

oh man this is a new level of deceiving wow man you should be in jail for your lying.

#### Cartesian

• 1965
##### Re: Is horizon always at eye level?
« Reply #77 on: May 20, 2015, 10:44:52 AM »
oh man this is a new level of deceiving wow man you should be in jail for your lying.

Embrace Round Earth brother, and your sin will be forgiven. That is the only way for your salvation.
I think, therefore I am

#### mikeman7918

• 5431
• Round Earther
##### Re: Is horizon always at eye level?
« Reply #78 on: May 22, 2015, 11:57:32 AM »
But the horizon is at eye level... not looking down 45 degrees as in your diagram.

Where did you get 45 degrees from?  Do you have actual math or did you just make it up?
I am having a video war with Jeranism.

#### mikeman7918

• 5431
• Round Earther
##### Re: Is horizon always at eye level?
« Reply #79 on: May 22, 2015, 12:01:54 PM »
That guy sounds like an idiot.  I can hardly see a mountain that is 100 miles away on a clear day.  Not because the Earth is round, but because the air is not perfectly transparent.  Yet, this guy thinks he should be able to see a continent from across the ocean.  What a moron.

He addresses that in the video.  The atmosphere cannot block all wavelengths of light and the only way it could is if it were denser then bricks, which it obviously isn't because bricks don't float like balloons.  Quote from the video: "There is a reason why radar has a range limit.  Let me give you a hint, it's not because the Earth is flat.".
I am having a video war with Jeranism.

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#### Steve-O

• 51
##### Re: Is horizon always at eye level?
« Reply #80 on: May 24, 2015, 10:45:58 AM »
Two parallel lines can never intersect.  The horizon at sea level will always be below eye level.  The only way the horizon would end up at eye level is if the sea curves up at the horizon to the same level as your eyes.  Is this the Lip Theory?  There wasn't any info in the Wiki.

However, wouldn't the Ice Wall make the horizon appear to be above eye level (assuming you have a telescope powerful enough to see the Ice Wall)?

#### mikeman7918

• 5431
• Round Earther
##### Re: Is horizon always at eye level?
« Reply #81 on: May 24, 2015, 10:53:51 AM »
Two parallel lines can never intersect.  The horizon at sea level will always be below eye level.  The only way the horizon would end up at eye level is if the sea curves up at the horizon to the same level as your eyes.  Is this the Lip Theory?  There wasn't any info in the Wiki.

However, wouldn't the Ice Wall make the horizon appear to be above eye level (assuming you have a telescope powerful enough to see the Ice Wall)?

Actually you wouldn't even need a telescope to see the ice wall if the Earth were really flat.
I am having a video war with Jeranism.

?

#### Steve-O

• 51
##### Re: Is horizon always at eye level?
« Reply #82 on: May 24, 2015, 11:05:02 AM »
Depends on how far away the ice wall is.  If it's far enough out, you wouldn't necessarily be able to see it.  The Hubble Deep Field photos, show that.  What looked like empty space was actually filled with billions of galaxies.

Since the FE'ers don't know how far away the Ice Wall really is, it may be out far enough that it's too small to see.

#### Rayzor

• 11826
• Looking for Occam
##### Re: Is horizon always at eye level?
« Reply #83 on: May 24, 2015, 07:59:15 PM »
Two parallel lines can never intersect.  The horizon at sea level will always be below eye level.  The only way the horizon would end up at eye level is if the sea curves up at the horizon to the same level as your eyes.  Is this the Lip Theory?  There wasn't any info in the Wiki.

However, wouldn't the Ice Wall make the horizon appear to be above eye level (assuming you have a telescope powerful enough to see the Ice Wall)?

Actually you wouldn't even need a telescope to see the ice wall if the Earth were really flat.

I already mentioned this a couple of times,  but I don't think you saw it,  to repeat,  you can't see past about 300 km,  because of Rayleigh Scattering.  That guy in the video that's in your signature got it wrong.

"At sea level, the Rayleigh atmosphere has an extinction coefficient of approximately 13.2 × 10−6 m−1 at a wavelength of 520 nm. This means that in the cleanest possible atmosphere, visibility is limited to about 296 km."

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Visibility

What this means is that the horizon on a flat earth will look like a fuzzy blue line dissapearing into the distance.   Not the sharp line we see on a round earth.
Stop gilding the pickle, you demisexual aromantic homoflexible snowflake.

#### iWitness

• 1173
• If the earth is round then what is your problem?
##### Re: Is horizon always at eye level?
« Reply #84 on: May 25, 2015, 03:33:53 AM »
I took another shot of the horizon from 40th floor today:

Oh look the horizon is below eye level again. I love this app!!

[/flatearth]
This horizon is less than 1degree lower than flat.  Within the margin of error for a hand held device. Honestly, you know that is flat. Even the the azimuth is reading 90.

I find it absolutely hilarious that Cartesian tried to prove the earth a ball using this app. It's time for some airplane window photos. Let's see this CURVE lol
Disclaimer: I am confused. Everything I say is speculative and not admissible in a court of law; however, I am neither insane nor a threat to myself or others. I am simply curious about everything in life and enjoy talking about crazy shit. Oh, & btw I like turtles.

#### mikeman7918

• 5431
• Round Earther
##### Re: Is horizon always at eye level?
« Reply #85 on: May 25, 2015, 11:14:11 AM »
I took another shot of the horizon from 40th floor today:

Oh look the horizon is below eye level again. I love this app!!

[/flatearth]
This horizon is less than 1degree lower than flat.  Within the margin of error for a hand held device. Honestly, you know that is flat. Even the the azimuth is reading 90.

I find it absolutely hilarious that Cartesian tried to prove the earth a ball using this app. It's time for some airplane window photos. Let's see this CURVE lol

If curvature is seen from an airplane window then would you become a round earther?
I am having a video war with Jeranism.

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#### modestman

• 593
##### Re: Is horizon always at eye level?
« Reply #86 on: May 25, 2015, 11:17:29 AM »
I took another shot of the horizon from 40th floor today:

Oh look the horizon is below eye level again. I love this app!!

[/flatearth]
This horizon is less than 1degree lower than flat.  Within the margin of error for a hand held device. Honestly, you know that is flat. Even the the azimuth is reading 90.

I find it absolutely hilarious that Cartesian tried to prove the earth a ball using this app. It's time for some airplane window photos. Let's see this CURVE lol

If curvature is seen from an airplane window then would you become a round earther?
You are truly idiot,your english is messed up although you are native american and my english is messed up as well and you didn't understand this app is like a airplane window ?
you are liar and probably not american.

#### mikeman7918

• 5431
• Round Earther
##### Re: Is horizon always at eye level?
« Reply #87 on: May 25, 2015, 05:21:29 PM »
I took another shot of the horizon from 40th floor today:

Oh look the horizon is below eye level again. I love this app!!

[/flatearth]
This horizon is less than 1degree lower than flat.  Within the margin of error for a hand held device. Honestly, you know that is flat. Even the the azimuth is reading 90.

I find it absolutely hilarious that Cartesian tried to prove the earth a ball using this app. It's time for some airplane window photos. Let's see this CURVE lol

If curvature is seen from an airplane window then would you become a round earther?
You are truly idiot,your english is messed up although you are native american and my english is messed up as well and you didn't understand this app is like a airplane window ?
you are liar and probably not american.

Please point out one thing wrong with that sentence.
I am having a video war with Jeranism.

?

#### DarkStar

• 12
##### Re: Is horizon always at eye level?
« Reply #88 on: September 30, 2016, 03:09:18 PM »
Here is the simple experiment that almost anyone with a smart phone taking a flight can perform and can verify that the horizon is NOT "rising up to eye-level".

And, as a bonus, if you measure the angle between level and the horizon with your Theodolite app you can get a pretty good approximation of the radius and circumference of the Earth, where h is your altitude (feet or meters, answer will be in the same units) and β is your angle, which would be about 3.25° at 33,700 feet.

Earth Radius:   R = (h*cos(β))/(1-cos(β))
Earth Circumference = R·2π

See the link for a detailed derivation of the formula but it was originally worked out at least as far back as the 11 century by Al-Biruni -- so hopefully you modern, educated folks shouldn't have any problem with it.  I also cover how measuring the height using triangulation proves the ground itself isn't flat, which you can also do yourself but it requires a little more work (find a mountain, measure the angle to the peak at different points and measure the distances between those points -- and you can show that with greater distance something is making the mountain shorter and shorter -- in exactly the amount we would expect on a curved Earth).

#### N30

• 592
• I can only show you the door.
##### Re: Is horizon always at eye level?
« Reply #89 on: September 30, 2016, 03:16:43 PM »
Earth Radius:   R = (h*cos(β))/(1-cos(β))
Earth Circumference = R·2π

Earth is not a perfect sphere, so stop calculating it as such! Try this!