NASA owes us an apology for Werner Von Braun

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kman

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Re: NASA owes us an apology for Werner Von Braun
« Reply #60 on: June 07, 2015, 10:28:26 AM »
is this forum the only human contact you have?

Poor scepti, little does he realize that all the users on this forum aren't real people, but government robots. Scepti is the only living human in this forum, which is specially designed to keep scepti occupied and not stirring up trouble. .... MAYBE
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Re: NASA owes us an apology for Werner Von Braun
« Reply #61 on: June 07, 2015, 10:31:49 AM »

Show me these 100's of intact v2's.
Weirdly, I saw one with my own eyes this morning.  I visited the Imperial War Museum and there it was:



And you can see it next to a V1 (and a Spitfire) here:

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Re: NASA owes us an apology for Werner Von Braun
« Reply #62 on: June 07, 2015, 11:27:09 AM »
The photo you showed does not resemble a launching v2 size...
That's because the photo showed the wreckage of a V2 rocket engine after it exploded in England.

...so it's things like this, plus fuel and guidance that make maybe's, possibilities and probabilities, then maybe a fact; in time.
What about the several hundred intact V2s and dozens of German rocket scientists and engineers that were recovered by the US and Soviets at the end of the war?
Wreckage after it exploded. Really?  ::)
Really.

The first solid lead after the Oklahoma City bombing was the rear axle of the truck bomb, which landed a couple blocks away from the blast. It was very sturdy (it's a truck axle), so it survived the blast. Because it was stamped with a serial number, it was matched to the VIN of the truck, and that was traced to the agency that rented the truck, and then to Mr. McVeigh, who happened to be in jail a few counties away on what seemed, at the time, unrelated charges.

If you doubt the reality of that event, please track down and interview some survivors and family members of the victims. It was recent enough that there are still a lot of them around. I'm sure they'll be fascinated by your "skepticism".

It turns out that part of the truck's license plate also survived the blast and matched the vehicle identified by the axle. License plates aren't particularly sturdy, but parts can survive an enormous explosion, anyway. Rocket engines are sturdy.

Quote
Show me these 100's of intact v2's.
Most of them were, as they say, "expended". Here are some chunks from a couple. These are on display outside the New Mexico Museum of Space History in Alamogordo, NM, USA. There's no charge for the outside exhibit.




Here's one of the few remaining mostly-complete ones. It's at the White Sands Missile Range Museum, also in NM, across the valley maybe 50 miles west of Alamogordo.




V-2 guidance gyroscope.



This museum is just inside the main gate of WSMR, an active USAF base and missile test range. You will need to stop at base security (at the gate) and get a pass to get to the museum. This shouldn't be a problem for US citizens (you may have to prove citizenship - can't remember if proof was needed), but I don't know about foreign nationals. If you're interested, check ahead to see what's required for entry. No charge.

You can look up fuel, more information about the guidance system and stuff on line and in history books if you want. You probably don't.


"Everyone is entitled to his own opinion, but not to his own facts." - Daniel Patrick Moynihan

Re: NASA owes us an apology for Werner Von Braun
« Reply #63 on: June 07, 2015, 12:33:01 PM »
Von Braun was probably no more than a Walt Disney mouthpiece aiding in promoting the fantasy of space travel,along with other like-minded bullshit artists of the sci-fi world.
Let's face it; Von Braun had one hell of an accent and it wasn't nazi.
Can I just ask then if you think the v2 was a fully functioning rocket?
The V2 could well have been a rocket of some description and also functioning to a degree. I don't believe it done anything more than jump into the sea after a very short take off.
Basically, I suspect that it was a propaganda piece ,maybe.

To think those things could fly from one country to another and land on or close to a target after leaving the lower atmosphere in those times, is pathetic in the extreme.
The thing is a fat dart with no guidance ability. Our history is littered with a lot of bullshit, in my opinion.
Are you British out of interest?
Yes. I don't see what difference it makes to my thoughts. I question many things that has nothing to do with Britain.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2750353/Interactive-map-reveals-hundreds-sites-Hitler-s-V2-rockets-killed-thousands-British-civilians-final-months-WW2.html

You could go and find some of the sites,  ask the locals in the area  and verify the facts for yourself.    Over 1500 V2's hit England.
Do you think the sites will have intact V2 rockets?
How would anyone know what was what?

The places were evacuated in the main, so anything dropped from the sky could have been said to be a v2 or whatever  and people simply told about them.
Let's face it, it's easy as piss  in this day and age to fool the masses. Imagine how easy it was in the earlier times when people simply relied on a newspaper and a radio, plus gossip.

Remember war of the worlds with invading martians?
Using emotion as an argument I see. You have heard of bombs dropped by planes, right?
Or are you telling me that everyone simply knew about  V2.
Did you know that England had an early warning RADAR system that warned then when German bombers were headed their way?  Did you know that you can hear bombers as they're dropping their bombs on you?  Well, the V2s pretty much came out of nowhere with no warning.  That's one way that they could tell the difference.  Not to mention the wreckage of the V2 itself.
Picture of policeman standing next to mostly-intact remnant of V-2 engine
Did you know that santa doesn't make a noise when he and his hoof laden reindeers, plus sleigh full of presents clatter people's roof's. Just come out of nowhere and leave presents intact. A bit like this so called silent v2 effigy that lands with a dent and doesn't even disturb the ground.  :P ::) ;D
I am double posting this from the tfes.org site.
Do you still think this was a good idea? If you ever actually do anything more about about your campaign than talk about it here, when your "friends" come out of the woodwork in support, your involvement with them and the flat-earth "movement" will become obvious, and your opinions will be met with ridicule (or even more ridicule, depending on how you start pleading your case).

The range of the V2 ended up being only about 200 miles, which is what I think is accurate for a ballistic missile on a Flat Earth, but insignificant compared to what the US Government is claiming their ballistic and intercontinental missiles can do today under the explanation that they take advantage of earth orbit.

Von Braun would have proposed capabilities of the V2 assuming the earth is round, and would have gave different numbers to Hitler.
Be sure to emphasize that.

But what's the new-found revelation, Tom? Surely you'd heard of this before? Those citations in the OP were published more than a dozen years ago, and most of the information in them has been generally known for decades. Isn't this going to take valuable time that could be used to make at least one convincing argument that the Earth is flat, or have you given up on that?

By the way, did anyone look at Neufield's paper (first link in the OP) in enough detail to notice Footnote 42?

Quote
42 Since the pioneering work of Alan Beyerchen in Scientists under Hitler (New Haven,
1977), there has been an outpouring of literature on physics and physicists, most notably
on Heisenberg and the German atomic bomb. Recently three major books have been
published on that topic, spanning the full range from Heisenberg as heroic resister to
Heisenberg as incompetent Nazi dupe...
Anyone else get the irony? Even the number is ironic in a way.

If the source of Tom's sudden "outrage", and the suffering at the receiving end weren't so grim, this conversation would be merely ridiculous. As it is, it's sad and insulting. A nobody is desperately trying to score points for an idea as preposterous as the Earth is flat on the basis of unimaginable suffering by a lot people on the launch end of the V-2 trajectories. He demands that NASA should express shame, yet he himself has none. Adding to the insult, another bozo belittles the tragedy suffered at the receiving end. What a place.
"Everyone is entitled to his own opinion, but not to his own facts." - Daniel Patrick Moynihan

Re: NASA owes us an apology for Werner Von Braun
« Reply #64 on: June 07, 2015, 03:21:00 PM »
Tom,just out of curiosity how you explain the phenomena that when you climb higher you see further
i don't claim like rayzor that it mean that the earth is round because the curve don't get bigger at high altitudes but how can you explain that ? 

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markjo

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Re: NASA owes us an apology for Werner Von Braun
« Reply #65 on: June 07, 2015, 03:37:18 PM »
Tom,just out of curiosity how you explain the phenomena that when you climb higher you see further
I don't know about Tom, but I think that the phenomenon has nothing to do with the topic of this thread.  Please take your off topic question elsewhere.
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Re: NASA owes us an apology for Werner Von Braun
« Reply #66 on: June 07, 2015, 03:39:15 PM »
Tom,just out of curiosity how you explain the phenomena that when you climb higher you see further
I don't know about Tom, but I think that the phenomenon has nothing to do with the topic of this thread.  Please take your off topic question elsewhere.
The Sheriff is here to enforce the law ? this thread is almost comical and has no future and i won't open entire thread to ask tom a question but maybe i send him pm.