Thought Experiment Confirms the Earth is Flat

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Itchy_Arris

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Thought Experiment Confirms the Earth is Flat
« on: May 01, 2015, 09:57:25 AM »
This is just a thought experiment. Please don't post about practical issues.

I am building a giant snooker table in space. It's very big, let's say the size of Kansas. It's is absolutely level. I've used lasers to ensure that it is flat, and there are no centres of gravity nearby to affect the light. It is the flattest thing in the universe.

I land my table on the flat earth, in a specially prepared area that is also as flat as measurably possible. No problem, the balls run true on every part of the table.

I land my table on a spherical earth, in a specially prepared area that is also as flat as measurably possible. Problem. My flat table is nothing like level with the flattened ground.

This doesn't make any sense, but according to round earth theory this what would happen. What a joke! The earth cannot be spherical. It's flat.

(for American viewers, a snooker table is like a pool table)
What goes up, must come down.

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Slemon

  • Flat Earth Researcher
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Re: Thought Experiment Confirms the Earth is Flat
« Reply #1 on: May 01, 2015, 10:23:16 AM »

Re: Thought Experiment Confirms the Earth is Flat
« Reply #2 on: May 01, 2015, 10:26:33 AM »
You did it. Flat earth confirmed.
all the mountains are fake even mount sinai mountains are not natural and the himilayas dont exist while maybe they do but Ive never seen them. probably they are photoshop

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sokarul

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Re: Thought Experiment Confirms the Earth is Flat
« Reply #3 on: May 01, 2015, 10:27:13 AM »
So, because you can't put the square peg through the round hole the earth is flat. I'm convinced.
ANNIHILATOR OF  SHIFTER

It's no slur if it's fact.

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Itchy_Arris

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Re: Thought Experiment Confirms the Earth is Flat
« Reply #4 on: May 01, 2015, 10:33:59 AM »
You did it. Flat earth confirmed.

I know right! So glad to have converted you. Send me $1000 by PayPal and you can have the very first Gold Membership of the Infinite Earth Church.
What goes up, must come down.

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Itchy_Arris

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Re: Thought Experiment Confirms the Earth is Flat
« Reply #5 on: May 01, 2015, 10:38:56 AM »
This doesn't make any sense,

Why?

The point is, we do have things on earth that are designed to be very flat. Like, well, snooker tables. But if you introduce something that is truly flat into the equation, all the Mathis breaks down into nonsense. Proving that it can't be true.
What goes up, must come down.

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mikeman7918

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Re: Thought Experiment Confirms the Earth is Flat
« Reply #6 on: May 01, 2015, 10:51:56 AM »
This thought experiment doesn't disprove round Earth.  Let's say you have a sphere that somehow uses magnetism or something to make object attract to it's surface and then you take a perfectly flat object and put it on that sphere.  That flat object is not the same shape as the sphere (duh) and so it doesn't pay flat against it.  So tell me, why would this small scale experiment be impossible?  I don't see math breaking down, just a plane touching a sphere.

An interesting example of how this is not impossible is in a realistic Newtonian space flight game called Kerbal Space Program.  The Earth in that game is round and at the space center there is a long runway that's perfectly strait and doesn't follow the curvature of the Earth.  If you put a plane with low friction wheels on one end of the runway then it will start slowly rolling towards the center, but it doesn't crash the game due to math breaking down.

Edit: fixed typo.
« Last Edit: May 01, 2015, 11:49:03 AM by mikeman7918 »
I am having a video war with Jeranism.
See the thread about it here.

Re: Thought Experiment Confirms the Earth is Flat
« Reply #7 on: May 01, 2015, 11:35:32 AM »
You did it. Flat earth confirmed.

I know right! So glad to have converted you. Send me $1000 by PayPal and you can have the very first Gold Membership of the Infinite Earth Church.

Better yet, I'll fly to Kansas to hand-deliver a cheque. Afterwards, I can just keep flying in any direction and eventually discover wonderful new lands and previously extinct creatures!
all the mountains are fake even mount sinai mountains are not natural and the himilayas dont exist while maybe they do but Ive never seen them. probably they are photoshop

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Itchy_Arris

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Re: Thought Experiment Confirms the Earth is Flat
« Reply #8 on: May 01, 2015, 11:45:19 AM »
Hang on, I'll try to come up another one.
What goes up, must come down.

Re: Thought Experiment Confirms the Earth is Flat
« Reply #9 on: May 01, 2015, 02:13:27 PM »
Good idea. That one failed pretty badly.
"Everyone is entitled to his own opinion, but not to his own facts." - Daniel Patrick Moynihan

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Itchy_Arris

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Re: Thought Experiment Confirms the Earth is Flat
« Reply #10 on: May 01, 2015, 02:45:14 PM »
Good idea. That one failed pretty badly.

Only because roundies couldn't grasp the concept.
What goes up, must come down.

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mikeman7918

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  • Round Earther
Re: Thought Experiment Confirms the Earth is Flat
« Reply #11 on: May 01, 2015, 03:12:49 PM »
Good idea. That one failed pretty badly.

Only because roundies couldn't grasp the concept.

No, it's you that can't grasp the fact that a sphere touching a plane is not physically impossible.
I am having a video war with Jeranism.
See the thread about it here.

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Itchy_Arris

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Re: Thought Experiment Confirms the Earth is Flat
« Reply #12 on: May 01, 2015, 03:40:42 PM »
Good idea. That one failed pretty badly.

Only because roundies couldn't grasp the concept.

No, it's you that can't grasp the fact that a sphere touching a plane is not physically impossible.

Okay then, answer this:
We place our absolutely flat huge table on spherical earth. Where do the balls run?
What goes up, must come down.

Re: Thought Experiment Confirms the Earth is Flat
« Reply #13 on: May 01, 2015, 03:49:37 PM »
Good idea. That one failed pretty badly.

Only because roundies couldn't grasp the concept.

Nope. No problem with the concept, it just doesn't prove anything. As mikeman7918 already said, there's no problem with a plane tangent to a sphere. Mathematically or otherwise.

Best move on to your next idea. Maybe it'll be better.

[I see you're still going with this one. Oh, well.]
"Everyone is entitled to his own opinion, but not to his own facts." - Daniel Patrick Moynihan

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mikeman7918

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Re: Thought Experiment Confirms the Earth is Flat
« Reply #14 on: May 01, 2015, 04:01:39 PM »
Good idea. That one failed pretty badly.

Only because roundies couldn't grasp the concept.

Nope. No problem with the concept, it just doesn't prove anything. As mikeman7918 already said, there's no problem with a plane tangent to a sphere. Mathematically or otherwise.

Best move on to your next idea. Maybe it'll be better.

[I see you're still going with this one. Oh, well.]

He has already posted his next idea and trust me, it isn't any better.
I am having a video war with Jeranism.
See the thread about it here.

Re: Thought Experiment Confirms the Earth is Flat
« Reply #15 on: May 01, 2015, 04:13:33 PM »
Good idea. That one failed pretty badly.

Only because roundies couldn't grasp the concept.

No, it's you that can't grasp the fact that a sphere touching a plane is not physically impossible.

Okay then, answer this:
We place our absolutely flat huge table on spherical earth. Where do the balls run?

*Sigh* Won't give up, will you?

Assuming a surface with almost no rolling (or other) friction[nb]If it were perfectly frictionless, the balls would roll back and forth through the point nearest the center of the Earth and never stop.[/nb] and perfectly spherical balls (hey, it's a thought experiment, right...), the balls would end up at the point closest to the center of the Earth. And, before you trip all over yourself responding "but that's not what we see", remember, it's a thought experiment. A real snooker table 1) isn't even remotely big enough for this to present itself because, 2) it isn't a perfect plane, 3) the surface is far from frictionless, and 4) the balls aren't perfectly spherical.

I haven't run the numbers, but in an area the size of a regulation snooker table, the difference between a plane and surface of a sphere 8,000 miles in diameter is minuscule. We're talking about changes on the order of the thickness of a human hair, if that much. Feel free to do the calculations if you want.

[Edit] Add "or other" friction for completeness.

[Edit to add] A back of the envelope calculation gives the change in elevation in the middle of an arc with 6400 km radius and a straight line the length of the diagonal of a 12' X 6' table (slightly larger than a full-size snooker table) is about 8 nanometers. This is about 1/10000 the thickness of a human hair! Munuscule. Someone please check this.
 
« Last Edit: May 01, 2015, 04:37:20 PM by Alpha2Omega »
"Everyone is entitled to his own opinion, but not to his own facts." - Daniel Patrick Moynihan

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Scroto Gaggins

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Re: Thought Experiment Confirms the Earth is Flat
« Reply #16 on: May 01, 2015, 05:32:13 PM »
why do flat heads always bring up the flatness of Kansas?
With the same technology, why isn't there an additional experiment showing that the earth is flat?
Maybe because it isn't. The earth isn't Kansas. the flatness of Kansas has no bearing on the shape of the earth.
They are taking the hobbits to Isengard.

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Rayzor

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Re: Thought Experiment Confirms the Earth is Flat
« Reply #17 on: May 02, 2015, 12:02:51 AM »
What a stupid idea,  you can't play billiards or pool without gravity,   the balls would just float around and wouldn't go into the pockets.   And then to make matters worse when you get close to the earth  all the balls will roll towards the center.   Imagine trying to pot a ball at the far end of the table,  you'd need a saturn V to launch it.   Not one of Itchy Arse's better ideas.   

Stop gilding the pickle, you demisexual aromantic homoflexible snowflake.

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Itchy_Arris

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Re: Thought Experiment Confirms the Earth is Flat
« Reply #18 on: May 02, 2015, 05:19:26 AM »
why do flat heads always bring up the flatness of Kansas?
With the same technology, why isn't there an additional experiment showing that the earth is flat?
Maybe because it isn't. The earth isn't Kansas. the flatness of Kansas has no bearing on the shape of the earth.

Actually, I only used Kansas because it is square, and as there are a lot of US members here, thought it would be easy to relate to. It's flatness is completely irrelevant here.
What goes up, must come down.

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Itchy_Arris

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Re: Thought Experiment Confirms the Earth is Flat
« Reply #19 on: May 02, 2015, 05:25:47 AM »
Good idea. That one failed pretty badly.

Only because roundies couldn't grasp the concept.

No, it's you that can't grasp the fact that a sphere touching a plane is not physically impossible.

Okay then, answer this:
We place our absolutely flat huge table on spherical earth. Where do the balls run?

*Sigh* Won't give up, will you?

Assuming a surface with almost no rolling (or other) friction[nb]If it were perfectly frictionless, the balls would roll back and forth through the point nearest the center of the Earth and never stop.[/nb] and perfectly spherical balls (hey, it's a thought experiment, right...), the balls would end up at the point closest to the center of the Earth. And, before you trip all over yourself responding "but that's not what we see", remember, it's a thought experiment. A real snooker table 1) isn't even remotely big enough for this to present itself because, 2) it isn't a perfect plane, 3) the surface is far from frictionless, and 4) the balls aren't perfectly spherical.

I haven't run the numbers, but in an area the size of a regulation snooker table, the difference between a plane and surface of a sphere 8,000 miles in diameter is minuscule. We're talking about changes on the order of the thickness of a human hair, if that much. Feel free to do the calculations if you want.

[Edit] Add "or other" friction for completeness.

[Edit to add] A back of the envelope calculation gives the change in elevation in the middle of an arc with 6400 km radius and a straight line the length of the diagonal of a 12' X 6' table (slightly larger than a full-size snooker table) is about 8 nanometers. This is about 1/10000 the thickness of a human hair! Munuscule. Someone please check this.

Yes, that's what I thought. Our huge snooker table would pivot in the centre - ie the very centre of the table would be touching the ground - and the balls would run towards the centre.

So, round earth theory says, that on an ABSOLUTELY FLAT table, the balls would run to the centre of their own accord! Impossible!

Round earth theory completely busted. Glad I didn't abandon this idea after all!
What goes up, must come down.

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Slemon

  • Flat Earth Researcher
  • 11690
Re: Thought Experiment Confirms the Earth is Flat
« Reply #20 on: May 02, 2015, 05:28:35 AM »
So, round earth theory says, that on an ABSOLUTELY FLAT table, the balls would run to the centre of their own accord! Impossible!
Why?

Let's alter the analogy. An absolutely flat surface, no friction, metal balls, and a spherical magnet in the middle of the table.
The balls would go towards the middle of the table, but it's still completely flat. Is that impossible too?

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Itchy_Arris

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Re: Thought Experiment Confirms the Earth is Flat
« Reply #21 on: May 02, 2015, 05:52:31 AM »
So, round earth theory says, that on an ABSOLUTELY FLAT table, the balls would run to the centre of their own accord! Impossible!
Why?

Let's alter the analogy. An absolutely flat surface, no friction, metal balls, and a spherical magnet in the middle of the table.
The balls would go towards the middle of the table, but it's still completely flat. Is that impossible too?

Classic roundie tactic. Your precious magic ball earth has been debunked, so you try to muddy the waters by adding magnets!
What goes up, must come down.

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Slemon

  • Flat Earth Researcher
  • 11690
Re: Thought Experiment Confirms the Earth is Flat
« Reply #22 on: May 02, 2015, 06:00:48 AM »
Classic roundie tactic. Your precious magic ball earth has been debunked, so you try to muddy the waters by adding magnets!

Not at all. You're saying it's impossible for balls on a flat surface to move towards the cetre: I'm showing that's not the case.

Re: Thought Experiment Confirms the Earth is Flat
« Reply #23 on: May 02, 2015, 06:18:55 AM »
Good idea. That one failed pretty badly.

Only because roundies couldn't grasp the concept.

No, it's you that can't grasp the fact that a sphere touching a plane is not physically impossible.

Okay then, answer this:
We place our absolutely flat huge table on spherical earth. Where do the balls run?

*Sigh* Won't give up, will you?

Assuming a surface with almost no rolling (or other) friction[nb]If it were perfectly frictionless, the balls would roll back and forth through the point nearest the center of the Earth and never stop.[/nb] and perfectly spherical balls (hey, it's a thought experiment, right...), the balls would end up at the point closest to the center of the Earth. And, before you trip all over yourself responding "but that's not what we see", remember, it's a thought experiment. A real snooker table 1) isn't even remotely big enough for this to present itself because, 2) it isn't a perfect plane, 3) the surface is far from frictionless, and 4) the balls aren't perfectly spherical.

I haven't run the numbers, but in an area the size of a regulation snooker table, the difference between a plane and surface of a sphere 8,000 miles in diameter is minuscule. We're talking about changes on the order of the thickness of a human hair, if that much. Feel free to do the calculations if you want.

[Edit] Add "or other" friction for completeness.

[Edit to add] A back of the envelope calculation gives the change in elevation in the middle of an arc with 6400 km radius and a straight line the length of the diagonal of a 12' X 6' table (slightly larger than a full-size snooker table) is about 8 nanometers. This is about 1/10000 the thickness of a human hair! Munuscule. Someone please check this.

Yes, that's what I thought. Our huge snooker table would pivot in the centre - ie the very centre of the table would be touching the ground - and the balls would run towards the centre.

So, round earth theory says, that on an ABSOLUTELY FLAT table, the balls would run to the centre of their own accord! Impossible!

Round earth theory completely busted. Glad I didn't abandon this idea after all!

Oh, dear. Didn't you read the post you quoted?

This was preemptively answered. It's highlighted in the quote above to make it easier for you to see.

Your idea still fails. Although a snooker table the size of Kansas would indeed be a sight to behold, it's not practical to build one, so this will, alas, have to remain in the realm of "thought experiment". Time to move on.

"Everyone is entitled to his own opinion, but not to his own facts." - Daniel Patrick Moynihan

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mikeman7918

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  • Round Earther
Re: Thought Experiment Confirms the Earth is Flat
« Reply #24 on: May 02, 2015, 08:17:17 AM »
Yes, that's what I thought. Our huge snooker table would pivot in the centre - ie the very centre of the table would be touching the ground - and the balls would run towards the centre.

So, round earth theory says, that on an ABSOLUTELY FLAT table, the balls would run to the centre of their own accord! Impossible!

Round earth theory completely busted. Glad I didn't abandon this idea after all!

What would make that impossible?  I'm not following your logic.
I am having a video war with Jeranism.
See the thread about it here.

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Art

  • 133
Re: Thought Experiment Confirms the Earth is Flat
« Reply #25 on: May 02, 2015, 08:35:19 AM »
It depends on the mass of the table and balls, if the mass of the table was insignificant gravity would attract the balls
assuming there’s nothing else of significant mass around it.

Who is saying the Earth is a perfect sphere to conduct your experiment?
« Last Edit: May 02, 2015, 08:41:59 AM by Art »
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