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It's 2015 and you aren't even close to owning a Spaceship

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sceptimatic

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Re: It's 2015 and you aren't even close to owning a Spaceship
« Reply #480 on: May 14, 2015, 11:38:22 AM »
Quote from: markjo on May 14, 2015, 11:33:56 AM
Quote from: sceptimatic on May 14, 2015, 10:13:07 AM
Quote from: markjo on May 14, 2015, 09:49:22 AM
Quote from: sceptimatic on May 14, 2015, 08:02:05 AM
Quote from: markjo on May 14, 2015, 07:44:40 AM
Quote from: sceptimatic on May 14, 2015, 07:11:07 AM
You can't do this with space and are reliant on peopl;e telling you about it. Your trust is put into those people to tell you space stories as if they are experts.
It doesn't make you an expert until you can show people that what you learned, is physically true, otherwise you're storytelling.
Who here has ever claimed to be an expert on space?  ???
You all appear to know all about space. If you don't, then why the hell are you people answering questions about space as if you are experts?

If it's because you naively believe what you are told, then fair enough.
No, it isn't naivety, it's called research.  One of the funny things about space travel is that you don't need to personally go to space in order to figure out if it's possible or not.  Some of us have actually taken lab physics courses where we personally tested some of the fundamental principles that can be applied to space flight and have found that NASA's claims seem to be consistent with what we have personally experienced.
I bet physics can be helpful in determining how to sharpen a unicorn's horn without damaging it. What do you think?

That's basically what you are implying and you can't see how stupid it sounds.
Is that any more stupid that claiming that hydrogen and helium can freeze into a giant dome covering the earth?
Far from stupid. You can see what happens in a bell jar. You just can't or refuse to understand it.
Your busy mind believing in a spinning ball in a vacuum has warped it to such an extent that you are probably beyond help or too ashamed to dare to deviate from it, because mainstream science is your comfort blanket.
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mikeman7918

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Re: It's 2015 and you aren't even close to owning a Spaceship
« Reply #481 on: May 14, 2015, 11:58:07 AM »
Quote from: sceptimatic on May 14, 2015, 11:33:24 AM
I'm all ears, I'm all ears. Or should I say, I'm all eyes.

Ok, so tell me about your rocket and fuel and stuff for your space.

I still need to know how you figure out the space stuff, as in how you determine where space begins and the exact speed of your Earth for your space ship to do all it's stuff.

Come on, out with it because there's not a lot to go on from what I see and your rocket and space are looking like a scribble on your school book.

The edge of space is actually a political border, flying a plane in enemy airspace could be considered an act of war while flying a spaceship over enemy territory often cannot be avoided because if the nature if space travel.  In reality the atmosphere fades away gradually like a gradient, it's not a distinct border.  The International Space Station is actually slightly in the atmosphere which is why it has to boost it's self sometimes to stay in orbit.

One thing you red to know about velocity is that it's not absolute, it's relative.  If you are in a car going 80 miles per hour on the freeway it would be just as correct to say that you and the car are stationary while the Earth is moving past you at 80 miles per hour.  Frames of reference commonly used in soace travel are the Earth and the Sun.  When dealing with soace crafts orbiting Earth you can just use the Earth as a frame of reference and so Earth is stationary, but if you are doing interplanetary travel and using the Sun as a frame of reference the Earth is moving at 30 kilometers per second.  A space craft usually figures out it's position by finding 2 celestial bodies and a star and then using that to triangulate it's position and if it does that twice it can determine it's velocity.

As for the mathematics involved, Scott Manley can explain it a lot better then I can:
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Papa Legba

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Re: It's 2015 and you aren't even close to owning a Spaceship
« Reply #482 on: May 14, 2015, 12:37:12 PM »
YET AGAIN, I'M NOTICING A LOT OF SPACE EXPERTISE HERE!!!

BUT, HAVE ANY OF YOU GALOOTS ACTUALLY BEEN THERE?

NO, YOU HAVE NOT.

SO KNOCK IT OFF, OKAY?

COS IF YOU HAVE NOT BEEN TO SPACE THEN YOUR WORD ON THE SUBJECT IS WORTHLESS.

Constant repetition of Hearsay Evidence does not constitute Proof, no matter how much you Wish it so.

Try it in a courtroom & see how far it gets you...
 
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legion

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Re: It's 2015 and you aren't even close to owning a Spaceship
« Reply #483 on: May 14, 2015, 12:50:55 PM »
Quote from: mikeman7918 on May 14, 2015, 11:58:07 AM
One thing you red to know about velocity is that it's not absolute, it's relative.  If you are in a car going 80 miles per hour on the freeway it would be just as correct to say that you and the car are stationary while the Earth is moving past you at 80 miles per hour. 

Do you have any idea how retarded the garbage you spew is?

Father and son travelling down a road in the family car

son_of_mikeman: How fast are we going, dad?

mikeman: Son, we aren't actually moving. It's the earth that is moving. We are stationary.

son_of_mikeman: What about the cars going in the opposite direction, dad? Does the earth move in both directions at once? Or if four cars set off in four different directions, the earth would be moving in the opposite direction to each of them, whilst they remain at rest. Dad, are you a retard?

mikeman: I'm not sure son. I'll have to go on wikipedia.


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mikeman7918

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Re: It's 2015 and you aren't even close to owning a Spaceship
« Reply #484 on: May 14, 2015, 12:58:35 PM »
Quote from: Papa Legba on May 14, 2015, 12:37:12 PM
COS IF YOU HAVE NOT BEEN TO SPACE THEN YOUR WORD ON THE SUBJECT IS WORTHLESS.

Under that logic a marine biologist knows nothing about marine biology until they have personally seen the bottom of the ocean in a sub even if they study samples on the surface, A soldier can't know anything about combat until they have been in a battle even though they have been through boot camp, a historian can't know anything about Egypt until they have visited it even though they study it, and a doctor can't know anything about cancer until they have it even though they went to medical school.  Do you seriously not see the flaws in that logic?

Quote from: Papa Legba on May 14, 2015, 12:37:12 PM
Try it in a courtroom & see how far it gets you...

The word of a doctor on medical things, the word of a historian on history, the word of a marine biologist on the ocean, and the word of a soldier on combat are are things that a court would accept.
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mikeman7918

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Re: It's 2015 and you aren't even close to owning a Spaceship
« Reply #485 on: May 14, 2015, 01:06:21 PM »
Quote from: legion on May 14, 2015, 12:50:55 PM
Quote from: mikeman7918 on May 14, 2015, 11:58:07 AM
One thing you red to know about velocity is that it's not absolute, it's relative.  If you are in a car going 80 miles per hour on the freeway it would be just as correct to say that you and the car are stationary while the Earth is moving past you at 80 miles per hour. 

Do you have any idea how retarded the garbage you spew is?

Father and son travelling down a road in the family car

son_of_mikeman: How fast are we going, dad?

mikeman: Son, we aren't actually moving. It's the earth that is moving. We are stationary.

son_of_mikeman: What about the cars going in the opposite direction, dad? Does the earth move in both directions at once? Or if four cars set off in four different directions, the earth would be moving in the opposite direction to each of them, whilst they remain at rest. Dad, are you a retard?

mikeman: I'm not sure son. I'll have to go on wikipedia.

Saying that the Earth is moving and the car is stationary is not as useful for practical purposes, so here is another example:

Say you are in a moving car and you take an object and throw it backwards.  That ball would still be moving forward relative to the Earth but someone else in the car would say that the object was clearly moving backwards.  In fact, if you were in a car moving in a strait line at a constant speed with no windows or speedometer (and somehow don't crash it) there would be no experiment you could do that would tell you that you are moving.  This is one of the most basic principals in physics, how much of your physics class did you sleep through?
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Papa Legba

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Re: It's 2015 and you aren't even close to owning a Spaceship
« Reply #486 on: May 14, 2015, 01:09:37 PM »
mikeman: Yup; legion got it right.

You are a total retard & made of Fail.

Let's hope you never have to appear as a Defendant in any court that accepts YOUR definition of what constitutes a reliable witness, as well as conclusive evidence for absolute proof...

No, actually; let's DO!

LOL!

&, as ever, FAIL!
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Lemmiwinks

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Re: It's 2015 and you aren't even close to owning a Spaceship
« Reply #487 on: May 14, 2015, 01:11:03 PM »
Quote from: Papa Legba on May 14, 2015, 01:09:37 PM
mikeman: Yup; legion got it right.

You are a total retard & made of Fail.

Let's hope you never have to appear as a Defendant in any court that accepts YOUR definition of what constitutes a reliable witness, as well as conclusive evidence for absolute proof...

No, actually; let's DO!

LOL!

&, as ever, FAIL!

Mike, this guy is a troll. No need to engage him.
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Quote from: sceptimatic on September 22, 2014, 08:33:23 AM
I have 13 [academic qualifications] actually. I'll leave it up to you to guess which, or simply call me a  liar. Either is fine.

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Papa Legba

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Re: It's 2015 and you aren't even close to owning a Spaceship
« Reply #488 on: May 14, 2015, 01:17:46 PM »
Sock-puppet FAIL!

& you call me a troll?

LOL!
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legion

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Re: It's 2015 and you aren't even close to owning a Spaceship
« Reply #489 on: May 14, 2015, 01:18:26 PM »
Quote from: mikeman7918 on May 14, 2015, 01:06:21 PM
Quote from: legion on May 14, 2015, 12:50:55 PM
Quote from: mikeman7918 on May 14, 2015, 11:58:07 AM
One thing you red to know about velocity is that it's not absolute, it's relative.  If you are in a car going 80 miles per hour on the freeway it would be just as correct to say that you and the car are stationary while the Earth is moving past you at 80 miles per hour. 

Do you have any idea how retarded the garbage you spew is?

Father and son travelling down a road in the family car

son_of_mikeman: How fast are we going, dad?

mikeman: Son, we aren't actually moving. It's the earth that is moving. We are stationary.

son_of_mikeman: What about the cars going in the opposite direction, dad? Does the earth move in both directions at once? Or if four cars set off in four different directions, the earth would be moving in the opposite direction to each of them, whilst they remain at rest. Dad, are you a retard?

mikeman: I'm not sure son. I'll have to go on wikipedia.

Quote
Saying that the Earth is moving and the car is stationary is not as useful for practical purposes, so here is another example:

In other words, you were wrong. Say it. It will make you look like less of an idiot.

Quote
Say you are in a moving car and you take an object and throw it backwards.  That ball would still be moving forward relative to the Earth but someone else in the car would say that the object was clearly moving backwards.


How do you know that? How would it be measured?

Quote
In fact, if you were in a car moving in a strait straight line at a constant speed with no windows or speedometer (and somehow don't crash it) there would be no experiment you could do that would tell you that you are moving.  This is one of the most basic principals principles in physics, how much of your physics class did you sleep through?

Yes, that's because you have formed a closed system. One can't determine movement unless one can perceive movement in relation to something else. That's not the same as the error you made earlier though, is it?


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mikeman7918

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Re: It's 2015 and you aren't even close to owning a Spaceship
« Reply #490 on: May 14, 2015, 01:19:14 PM »
Quote from: Papa Legba on May 14, 2015, 01:09:37 PM
mikeman: Yup; legion got it right.

You are a total retard & made of Fail.

Let's hope you never have to appear as a Defendant in any court that accepts YOUR definition of what constitutes a reliable witness, as well as conclusive evidence for absolute proof...

No, actually; let's DO!

LOL!

&, as ever, FAIL!

I am seriously considering starting a thread where we will decide weather space travel is real the way a court does it.  The problem is finding an impartial jury, I might just have to use flat earthers as the jury to give them a fighting chance.
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legion

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Re: It's 2015 and you aren't even close to owning a Spaceship
« Reply #491 on: May 14, 2015, 01:24:04 PM »
Quote from: Lemmiwinks on May 14, 2015, 01:11:03 PM
Quote from: Papa Legba on May 14, 2015, 01:09:37 PM
mikeman: Yup; legion got it right.

You are a total retard & made of Fail.

Let's hope you never have to appear as a Defendant in any court that accepts YOUR definition of what constitutes a reliable witness, as well as conclusive evidence for absolute proof...

No, actually; let's DO!

LOL!

&, as ever, FAIL!

Mike, this guy is a troll. No need to engage him.

If you smell a troll, you should realise that the stench is almost certainly from yourself. I can smell you from here.
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Papa Legba

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Re: It's 2015 and you aren't even close to owning a Spaceship
« Reply #492 on: May 14, 2015, 01:27:36 PM »
Really; I have no idea what mikeman is trying to say any more.

He has not been to space, yet is expert in every single aspect of it, bar none.

His buddies come riding to the rescue whenever he paints himself into a corner -which is often - attempting to claim those who point out his loopiness are 'trolls'.

Now he wants to start a thread about 'weather', space travel & the judicial system...

I thought friday was your meltdown day, mikeman.nasa.gov; are you 'coming on' early this week?
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legion

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Re: It's 2015 and you aren't even close to owning a Spaceship
« Reply #493 on: May 14, 2015, 01:34:44 PM »
Quote from: Papa Legba on May 14, 2015, 01:27:36 PM
Really; I have no idea what mikeman is trying to say any more.

He has not been to space, yet is expert in every single aspect of it, bar none.

His buddies come riding to the rescue whenever he paints himself into a corner -which is often - attempting to claim those who point out his loopiness are 'trolls'.

Now he wants to start a thread about 'weather', space travel & the judicial system...

I thought friday was your meltdown day, mikeman.nasa.gov; are you 'coming on' early this week?

mikey claims to be a Mormon. I'm fine with religious people. I find many of iWitness's threads interesting (including this one). But mikey considers himself scientific as well. You know, with his 2D software modelling activities and the like.

The problem is, he hasn't got a clue about science! And it shows. The fact that he asked if I "fell asleep in physics class", as though a classroom is the only place to gain knowledge and understanding about the world.
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Slemon

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Re: It's 2015 and you aren't even close to owning a Spaceship
« Reply #494 on: May 14, 2015, 01:38:06 PM »
Quote from: Papa Legba on May 14, 2015, 01:27:36 PM
He has not been to space, yet is expert in every single aspect of it, bar none.
You've never been to NASA's launch sites and centers, apparently, and yet you claim to be enough of an expert to dismiss everything they've done out of hand.
Funny how that works.
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legion

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Re: It's 2015 and you aren't even close to owning a Spaceship
« Reply #495 on: May 14, 2015, 01:40:16 PM »
Quote from: BiJane on May 14, 2015, 01:38:06 PM
Quote from: Papa Legba on May 14, 2015, 01:27:36 PM
He has not been to space, yet is expert in every single aspect of it, bar none.
You've never been to NASA's launch sites and centers, apparently, and yet you claim to be enough of an expert to dismiss everything they've done out of hand.
Funny how that works.

If someone visited a nasa launch site or centre, would they then become an expert in space travel? Is that what you are suggesting?
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Slemon

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Re: It's 2015 and you aren't even close to owning a Spaceship
« Reply #496 on: May 14, 2015, 01:41:20 PM »
Quote from: legion on May 14, 2015, 01:40:16 PM
If someone visited a nasa launch site or centre, would they then become an expert in space travel? Is that what you are suggesting?

Nope, I don't think someone has to go somewhere to learn about it. I'm not the one saying that.
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Quote from: Crouton on December 02, 2022, 08:48:03 AM
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legion

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Re: It's 2015 and you aren't even close to owning a Spaceship
« Reply #497 on: May 14, 2015, 01:42:24 PM »
Quote from: BiJane on May 14, 2015, 01:41:20 PM
Quote from: legion on May 14, 2015, 01:40:16 PM
If someone visited a nasa launch site or centre, would they then become an expert in space travel? Is that what you are suggesting?

Nope, I don't think someone has to go somewhere to learn about it. I'm not the one saying that.

So, what would be achieved by visiting?
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mikeman7918

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Re: It's 2015 and you aren't even close to owning a Spaceship
« Reply #498 on: May 14, 2015, 01:45:04 PM »
Quote from: Papa Legba on May 14, 2015, 01:27:36 PM
Really; I have no idea what mikeman is trying to say any more.

What I am trying to explain is basic physics which are easy to prove and I am explaining it in the same way I explained it to my sister when she was 7.  If your brain cell still has problems comprehending it it's not my fault.

Quote from: Papa Legba on May 14, 2015, 01:27:36 PM
He has not been to space, yet is expert in every single aspect of it, bar none.

Posting this again because you apparently didn't read it last time:

Under that logic a marine biologist knows nothing about marine biology until they have personally seen the bottom of the ocean in a sub even if they study samples on the surface, A soldier can't know anything about combat until they have been in a battle even though they have been through boot camp, a historian can't know anything about Egypt until they have visited it even though they study it, and a doctor can't know anything about cancer until they have it even though they went to medical school.

Do you seriously not see the flaws in that logic?

Quote from: Papa Legba on May 14, 2015, 01:27:36 PM
His buddies come riding to the rescue whenever he paints himself into a corner -which is often - attempting to claim those who point out his loopiness are 'trolls'.

"'paints' himself into a corner"

You point out every spelling mistake I make as if it proves something, so I will do the same just to show you how annoying it is.

Also, please point out just one time when I "painted" myself into a corner (whatever that means).

I also rarely call people trolls and the only people who have pointed out my """"""""""loopiness"""""""""" are people who don't know the first thing about what I am talking about.

Quote from: Papa Legba on May 14, 2015, 01:27:36 PM
Now he wants to start a thread about 'weather', space travel & the judicial system...

That's a spelling mistake.  I don't see how that proves anything.

Quote from: Papa Legba on May 14, 2015, 01:27:36 PM
I thought friday was your meltdown day, mikeman.nasa.gov; are you 'coming on' early this week?

And you say that I don't make any sense...
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Papa Legba

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Re: It's 2015 and you aren't even close to owning a Spaceship
« Reply #499 on: May 14, 2015, 01:48:06 PM »
Dammit. Legion, you're stealing my bedtime comedy gold!

Now; bijane - explain again how Australia is like Space...

& mikeman: ROFLCOPTER!!!!!!
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Slemon

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Re: It's 2015 and you aren't even close to owning a Spaceship
« Reply #500 on: May 14, 2015, 01:52:56 PM »
Quote from: legion on May 14, 2015, 01:42:24 PM
So, what would be achieved by visiting?

You tell me, you're the one saying you have to go somewhere to know anything about it.

Quote from: Papa Legba on May 14, 2015, 01:48:06 PM
Now; bijane - explain again how Australia is like Space...
1. You haven't been there. 2. Not talking about Australia, haven't for a while. 3. Your turn, what differences stop your 'logic' holding?
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Quote from: Crouton on December 02, 2022, 08:48:03 AM
We all know deep in our hearts that Jane is the last face we'll see before we're choked to death!
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Papa Legba

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Re: It's 2015 and you aren't even close to owning a Spaceship
« Reply #501 on: May 14, 2015, 01:55:20 PM »
Meh... not as funny as you used to be.

Legion can have you.

Goodnight.
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Slemon

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Re: It's 2015 and you aren't even close to owning a Spaceship
« Reply #502 on: May 14, 2015, 01:58:24 PM »
Quote from: Papa Legba on May 14, 2015, 01:55:20 PM
Goodnight.
Night! Try to come back with an answer sometime.
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Quote from: Crouton on December 02, 2022, 08:48:03 AM
We all know deep in our hearts that Jane is the last face we'll see before we're choked to death!
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Papa Legba

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Re: It's 2015 and you aren't even close to owning a Spaceship
« Reply #503 on: May 14, 2015, 02:03:23 PM »
I already have. Repeatedly.

But I didn't mind cos it was you...

Now, however, the thrill is gone.

So STFU & get back in your ocd Cape Canaveral-spamming hugbox, okay?
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Lemmiwinks

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Re: It's 2015 and you aren't even close to owning a Spaceship
« Reply #504 on: May 14, 2015, 02:08:00 PM »
Quote from: legion on May 14, 2015, 01:24:04 PM
Quote from: Lemmiwinks on May 14, 2015, 01:11:03 PM
Quote from: Papa Legba on May 14, 2015, 01:09:37 PM
mikeman: Yup; legion got it right.

You are a total retard & made of Fail.

Let's hope you never have to appear as a Defendant in any court that accepts YOUR definition of what constitutes a reliable witness, as well as conclusive evidence for absolute proof...

No, actually; let's DO!

LOL!

&, as ever, FAIL!

Mike, this guy is a troll. No need to engage him.

If you smell a troll, you should realise that the stench is almost certainly from yourself. I can smell you from here.

Is a new trolling technique to try and pin "troll" on other people? I don't think you're a troll legion, just an idiot.

I was saying Papa is a troll, which he clearly is.
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Quote from: sceptimatic on September 22, 2014, 08:33:23 AM
I have 13 [academic qualifications] actually. I'll leave it up to you to guess which, or simply call me a  liar. Either is fine.

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markjo

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Re: It's 2015 and you aren't even close to owning a Spaceship
« Reply #505 on: May 14, 2015, 05:43:18 PM »
Quote from: Papa Legba on May 14, 2015, 12:37:12 PM
YET AGAIN, I'M NOTICING A LOT OF SPACE EXPERTISE HERE!!!
Ummm...  No.  It's more like scientific competence.  I don't need to go into space to see how things work in a vacuum or study gravity.

Quote from: Papa Legba on May 14, 2015, 12:37:12 PM
Constant repetition of Hearsay Evidence does not constitute Proof, no matter how much you Wish it so.

Try it in a courtroom & see how far it gets you...
Scientific evidence does not employ the same burden of proof as legal evidence.  In science, you are allowed to learn from other people's experiences, no matter how much you wish it wasn't so.
« Last Edit: May 14, 2015, 05:46:44 PM by markjo »
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Papa Legba

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Re: It's 2015 and you aren't even close to owning a Spaceship
« Reply #506 on: May 14, 2015, 09:54:01 PM »
Well, the problem is that there's 'science' & then there's 'science-fiction' & then there's 'scientism'; & you lot can't tell the difference between them.

Which is how we're in the mess we are.

So maybe a better standard of evidence would help separate the wheat from the chaff?

Bringing me neatly to: Have any of you actually been to space yet? Because if you have not, then you have no direct, unambiguous empirical evidence for what it's like.

So STFU about it.

Bye-bye space-goons.
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I got Trolled & Shilled at the CIA Troll/Shill Society and now I feel EPIC!!!
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mikeman7918

  • 5431
  • Round Earther
Re: It's 2015 and you aren't even close to owning a Spaceship
« Reply #507 on: May 14, 2015, 10:46:27 PM »
Quote from: Papa Legba on May 14, 2015, 09:54:01 PM
Well, the problem is that there's 'science' & then there's 'science-fiction' & then there's 'scientism'; & you lot can't tell the difference between them.

Which is how we're in the mess we are.

So maybe a better standard of evidence would help separate the wheat from the chaff?

Bringing me neatly to: Have any of you actually been to space yet? Because if you have not, then you have no direct, unambiguous empirical evidence for what it's like.

So STFU about it.

Bye-bye space-goons.

Again, does this mean that a doctors word on the symptoms of cancer is wrong if the doctor hasn't had cancer?  Is a marine biologist's word on what like is like under the sea wrong because he hasn't been to the bottom of the ocean in a submarine?  Is a historian's word on history wrong even though they havn't traveled back in time?  If you answer no to any of these questions then what makes space different?  If you answered yes to any of these questions then you have some serious trust issues.
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See the thread about it here.
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markjo

  • Content Nazi
  • The Elder Ones
  • 42529
Re: It's 2015 and you aren't even close to owning a Spaceship
« Reply #508 on: May 15, 2015, 05:33:32 AM »
Quote from: Papa Legba on May 14, 2015, 09:54:01 PM
Well, the problem is that there's 'science' & then there's 'science-fiction' & then there's 'scientism'; & you lot can't tell the difference between them.
Actually, some of us can.  I'm sorry if you can't, but that's your problem, not ours.

Quote from: Papa Legba on May 14, 2015, 09:54:01 PM
Which is how we're in the mess we are.
And just what mess would that be?

Quote from: Papa Legba on May 14, 2015, 09:54:01 PM
So maybe a better standard of evidence would help separate the wheat from the chaff?
How many innocent people has the legal system sent to jail or to their death because the "wheat" didn't get separated from the "chaff"?

Quote from: Papa Legba on May 14, 2015, 09:54:01 PM
Bringing me neatly to: Have any of you actually been to space yet? Because if you have not, then you have no direct, unambiguous empirical evidence for what it's like.
Which brings me neatly back to: what makes you think that personal experience is the only way to gain "direct, unambiguous empirical evidence for what it's like"?

Quote from: Papa Legba on May 14, 2015, 09:54:01 PM
So STFU about it.[/b]
Not until you do.

Quote from: Papa Legba on May 14, 2015, 09:54:01 PM
Bye-bye space-goons.
Good riddance, jerk.
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Quote from: Robosteve
Besides, perhaps FET is a conspiracy too.
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hoppy

  • Flat Earth Believer
  • 11803
Re: It's 2015 and you aren't even close to owning a Spaceship
« Reply #509 on: May 15, 2015, 07:07:10 AM »
Good job Papa and legion. Mikey Mike is just babbling about historians and oceanographers, and probably reconsidering his position.
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God is real.                                         
http://www.scribd.com/doc/9665708/Flat-Earth-Bible-02-of-10-The-Flat-Earth
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