It's 2015 and you aren't even close to owning a Spaceship

Why are you talking about soldering, Walter Mitty?

In fact, why are you talking at all about a subject it is abundantly clear you have no knowledge of whatsoever?

Or have you been to an Imaginary University, existing only in the privacy of your own tiny mind, since your last stinking dump of an ignorant shitpost, & attained an Imaginary Qualification in Underwater Welding?

I said you'd do this; lo & behold, you have not disappointed...

You are the most ridiculous & implausible troll-entity on this forum.

However, as you continually undermine your 'shpaayze-ecksplurayshun' cause by indulging in such clownish antics, all I can say is: LMFAO - at YOU!!!

Quote from: markjo on November 18, 2015, 05:51:18 PM

Apparently tappet has never tried to solder a pipe joint when the pipe still has water in it either.  I can tell you from personal experience that it doesn't work.

Stop bullshitting. Any plumber knows if you have a leak in copper pipe with water in it you put a cut with a hacksaw further down the line to relieve steam pressure then weld your leak, then turn around and weld your cut. You can not get rid of all of the water.

Thanks for agreeing that you can't solder a pipe that has water anywhere near where you want to solder.

Why are you now talking about solder?

Because using a torch flame to heat a pipe with water in it is similar to regenerativly cooling a rocket engine.

Have you not seen underwater welding on ships?

Irrelevant.

using a torch flame to heat a pipe with water in it is similar to regenerativly cooling a rocket engine.

LULZ!!!

Oh, dear, this just gets better & better...

Anyhoo; you derfers seem to like referring to something called an 'acetylene torch' or 'acetylene cutter' that is used for welding.

My friends & I are very interested in this item; would you please explain to us precisely how an 'acetylene cutter' is set up & operated?

Don't worry about going into too much detail for our poor, simple brains to cope with; just tell us all you know...

We'll try to keep up!

Oh; & please don't just post a link to a youtube or website; tell us in your own words, eh?

You don't understand acetylene fueled cutters?

Quote from: markjo on November 19, 2015, 05:33:11 AM

using a torch flame to heat a pipe with water in it is similar to regenerativly cooling a rocket engine.

LULZ!!!

Oh, dear, this just gets better & better...

And your rebuttals get worse and worse.

Anyhoo; you derfers seem to like referring to something called an 'acetylene torch' or 'acetylene cutter' that is used for welding.

As I recall, you brought up acetylene torches, not us.

My friends & I are very interested in this item; would you please explain to us precisely how an 'acetylene cutter' is set up & operated?

If you don't understand them, then you shouldn't have brought them up.

Don't worry about going into too much detail for our poor, simple brains to cope with; just tell us all you know...

We'll try to keep up!

I doubt that.  You seem to deliberately misrepresent just about everything else, so why should this be any different?

Oh; & please don't just post a link to a youtube or website; tell us in your own words, eh?

Why should we bother when all you do is call us liars anyways?

LULZ!!!

You can't do it, can you?

You have simply no idea whatsoever what you are talking about...

Raown Derfers - RETREAT!!!

RUN AWAY!!!

FLEE!!!

Damn; we were all really looking forward to finding out what an 'acetylene cutter' is...

Life is full of little disappointments, isn't it?

Perhaps I'll explain what OA cutting actually entails later; but for now I just wish to savour the sweet smell of defeated derfer-poop emanating from your shamefully soiled britches.

You're probably savouring it yourself, too, markjo; though for somewhat different reasons, I wager...

Toodle-pip, Losers; don't forget to change your pants!

An oxy/acetylene cutter isn't anything terribly special.  It's pretty much just using a regular oxy/acetylene torch with an appropriate tip and adjusting the oxy/gas mix to make an intense, concentrated flame.

Now would you care to explain what that has to do with regenerative cooling in a rocket engine?

Or am I destined to be disappointed again?

Cutting torches focus the flame on a single spot.  Rocket engines do not.

Your turn.

LULZ!!!

You can't do it, can you?

You have simply no idea whatsoever what you are talking about...

Raown Derfers - RETREAT!!!

RUN AWAY!!!

FLEE!!!

Damn; we were all really looking forward to finding out what an 'acetylene cutter' is...

Life is full of little disappointments, isn't it?

Perhaps I'll explain what OA cutting actually entails later; but for now I just wish to savour the sweet smell of defeated derfer-poop emanating from your shamefully soiled britches.

You're probably savouring it yourself, too, markjo; though for somewhat different reasons, I wager...

Toodle-pip, Losers; don't forget to change your pants!

An oxyacetylene cutter has three output pipes. One for acetylene mix, one for oxygen mix and one for oxygen injection.

The acetylene and oxygen mix valves are opened, ignited, and adjusted to gain correct mix and flame. This flame is used to heat the steel to red hot temperature. Once this is achieved the oxygen injection is activated to blast the metal with pure oxygen. This oxidises the heated metal and significantly reduces its melting point and enables a cut to be made. Acetylene cutting relies on this oxidisation process to allow cutting to take place.

The combustion chamber is constructed from Stainless Steel. The chromium component prevents the steel from oxidising and means that Acetylene torches are not appropriate for cutting Stainless Steel. The torch will just gradually heats the metal up until it hits its melting point. The combustion chamber is however a highly efficient heat exchange system being cooled by cryogenic liquid and therefore does not hit its melting point.

Oh no you don't, Humpty Dumptys; you were talking about 'acetylene torches' - look:

I guarantee that the acetylene torch will not cut the metal as too much heat will be drawn away into the water. Once the water has boiled off then the acetylene will cut the metal.

So don't go trying to sneak the 'Oxygen' part back in with your copypasta wiki-spam after the fact, by now Definitively Proven Shitposting Liars.

Focusing the torch creates a tip with a temperature of 3,500C; exactly the same temp as in a 'spayze-rokkit' combustion chamber.

The tip also needs to be Oxygen-rich; a mix of about 6:1 LOX to Fuel.

& funnily enough, the mix the J2 engine uses is 5.5:1 LOX to Fuel... near enough identical again.

All of which is allegedly being blasted at hypersonic speed & enormous pressure against a steel tube, one third of a millimetre thick & filled with highly combustible pressurised gas, for 8 solid minutes.

Now; you can tell me that flimsy little tube would not melt like butter as long, loud & often as you like; but I am used to your brainwashing ways by now so will simply ignore you.

Because it is Physically Impossible; there is no 'cooling system' imaginable that could protect it from such extreme temperatures.

Of course, you will spam me for ever on this stupid subject if I allow you; so I will not.

Expect nothing but mockery & derision if you persist.

Oh; one last thing - you know the welder mates I had checking this thread earlier?

They thought YOU lot were the Flat Earthers, because your answers were so completely deluded & wrong...

And if that ain't worth a heart-felt ROFLMFAO!!! I don't know what is.

Toodle-pip, LOSERS.

Oh no you don't, Humpty Dumptys; you were talking about 'acetylene torches' - look:

Quote from: Mainframes on November 17, 2015, 07:49:58 AM

I guarantee that the acetylene torch will not cut the metal as too much heat will be drawn away into the water. Once the water has boiled off then the acetylene will cut the metal.

So don't go trying to sneak the 'Oxygen' part back in with your copypasta wiki-spam after the fact, by now Definitively Proven Shitposting Liars.

Focusing the torch creates a tip with a temperature of 3,500C; exactly the same temp as in a 'spayze-rokkit' combustion chamber.

The tip also needs to be Oxygen-rich; a mix of about 6:1 LOX to Fuel.

& funnily enough, the mix the J2 engine uses is 5.5:1 LOX to Fuel... near enough identical again.

All of which is allegedly being blasted at hypersonic speed & enormous pressure against a steel tube, one third of a millimetre thick & filled with highly combustible pressurised gas, for 8 solid minutes.

Now; you can tell me that flimsy little tube would not melt like butter as long, loud & often as you like; but I am used to your brainwashing ways by now so will simply ignore you.

*sigh*  First of all, the rocket's thrust is not focused on the combustion chamber walls like a cutting torch. 

Secondly, the coolant running through the tubes is a cryogenic liquid, not a gas.  Please get your facts straight.

Thirdly, the gasses don't go supersonic until they pass through the throat.  Being an expert on De Laval nozzles, you should know this.

Because it is Physically Impossible; there is no 'cooling system' imaginable that could protect it from such extreme temperatures.

Is that what your welder buddies told you?

Of course, you will spam me for ever on this stupid subject if I allow you; so I will not.

Expect nothing but mockery & derision if you persist.

Yes, because mockery and derision strengthens your position among neutrals.

Oh; one last thing - you know the welder mates I had checking this thread earlier?

They thought YOU lot were the Flat Earthers, because your answers were so completely deluded & wrong...

Perhaps you should get one of your welder mates to sign up and educate us himself.

Yes, because mockery and derision strengthens your position among neutrals.

Indeed it does; the welder mates that you seem to think I should not be allowed to have were both pissing themselves at how I poked fun at the nonsense you were spouting.

While we're on this subject, could you please provide a comprehensive list of all the trades & tradesmen that I'm NOT allowed to be mates with, bizarro Fascist Thought-Policeman markjo?

Cos, you know, being in construction I have to know quite a lot of them?

Do please reply promptly; I know that you are the Mighty King of Nothing hereabouts & He Who Must be Obeyed, so am ever so desperate to alter my entire professional existence to suit your every psychotic & unstable whim...

LOL!!!

Jesus Christ, markjo; you are so f**ked in the head it's not even funny - this is why the welder mates you won't allow me to have thought YOU were the mental-as-owt 'flat earther'.

Seriously; think on what I just wrote, markjo; cos you are screwing the pooch big-time here...

Which, as ever, is very, very, VERY LOL!!! indeed.

Quote from: markjo on November 19, 2015, 08:35:46 AM

Yes, because mockery and derision strengthens your position among neutrals.

Indeed it does; the welder mates that you seem to think I should not be allowed to have were both pissing themselves at how I poked fun at the nonsense you were spouting.

While we're on this subject, could you please provide a comprehensive list of all the trades & tradesmen that I'm NOT allowed to be mates with, bizarro Fascist Thought-Policeman markjo?

  What are you talking about?  When did I say anything even remotely like that?  You can have all the tradesman buddies that you want, I couldn't possibly care any less.  Then again, with your charming personality, I'd be surprised if you actually had any friends insider or outside of work.

However, if your welder buddies think that we're spouting nonsense, then I'd rather hear it from them than from you, seeing as you are hardly an impartial party.

Papa:

What is the heat transfer rate into the pipe from the combustion?
What is the heat transfer rate out of the pipe from the cryogenic fuel?

if your welder buddies think that we're spouting nonsense, then I'd rather hear it from them than from you

I already told you, Humpty Dumpty; they think you're a nutter.

They don't care what you think.

Because you talk like a nutter.

All of you raown derfers do; look at what mainframes wrote:

Have you ever tries welding a piece of metal that has the other end stuck in a bucket of ice cold water? Try it. I guarantee that the acetylene torch will not cut the metal as too much heat will be drawn away into the water. Once the water has boiled off then the acetylene will cut the metal.

Pure nutter-talk.

Why would a professional welder join a flat earth forum just to try & talk sense into nutters who write nutter-stuff like that?

Really; please try living in reality for just one - maybe two - minutes, King Shitposter markjo.

Do I need to post the "boiling water in a paper cup" video? What do your buddies say about it?

No; you need to STFU & GTFO.

Btw, & I just got a text from one of the welder mates markjo doesn't think I should be allowed to have...

He told me to point out this stinky nugget of Troll-poo:

Secondly, the coolant running through the tubes is a cryogenic liquid, not a gas. 

Apprently, the LOX will only be liquid when under the extreme high pressure found within the fuel tank.

As soon as it is released from the high-pressure tank it will immediately revert to gaseous form.

So it will be in gaseous, not liquid, form when running through the steel tubes forming the combustion chamber.

There you go, markjo; seems that - regardless of what you think about the shape of the earth - to know you is to hate you.

He also told me to inform mainframes that he is a f**kwit.

I ain't arguing...

Are u and your fellow welders also aerospace engineer?
Cause Space Flight implies design problem that the majority of us wouldn't even think about and requires solution that have been developed in university and research center and took a huge amount of highly educated people and resources.

As an example I will suggest to look at friction stir welding(welding without actually melting the material), I think your friends would found it strange but it's being used in aerospace industry

Bottom line, there all trolls and people who just say stupid stuff in this forum, but I could also be the occasion to inform ourselves in something we've considered strange or impossible

Bottom line, there all trolls and people who just say stupid stuff in this forum

Yes; & you're one of them, thus proving your own hypothesis...

Well done!

In case you've all forgotten, here is the crux of the 'debate':

Focusing an oxy-acetylene torch creates a tip with a temperature of 3,500C; exactly the same temp as in a 'spayze-rokkit' combustion chamber.

The tip also needs to be Oxygen-rich; a mix of about 6:1 LOX to Fuel.

& funnily enough, the mix the J2 engine uses is 5.5:1 LOX to Fuel... near enough identical again.

All of which is allegedly being blasted at hypersonic speed & enormous pressure against a steel tube, one third of a millimetre thick & filled with highly combustible pressurised gas, for 8 solid minutes.

Now; you can tell me that flimsy little tube would not melt like butter as long, loud & often as you like; but I am used to your brainwashing ways by now so will simply ignore you.

Because it is Physically Impossible; there is no 'cooling system' imaginable that could protect it from such extreme temperatures.

luckyfred's 'stir-fry' welding is thus utterly irrelevant to the matter at hand, as are his nebulous references to strange or impossible design solutions nobody has yet thought of...

This is Reality, unluckyfred, not the X-Files...

Have you ever tries welding a piece of metal that has the other end stuck in a bucket of ice cold water? Try it. I guarantee that the acetylene torch will not cut the metal as too much heat will be drawn away into the water. Once the water has boiled off then the acetylene will cut the metal.

Now we will go back to what Mainframes said before Markjo used his usual tactics trolled and then changed the subject to solder.
Yes you can cut metal with oxy that has the other end stuck in water.

Was just trying to point out the fact that construction workerks don't know almost anything about space flight, maybe u should inform a little bit more before saying something is impossible when actually it's real. Ok just hypotesis that space flights doesn't exist but rocket do leave the launch pad(or are u doubting even the existence of rocket in the first place?) then how it's possible that a very thin foil of steel withstand those temperatures even for a couple of seconds without some sort of cooling?

Shut up, unluckyfred; nobody cares.

Tappet, like every other welder who has seen this thread, is good & mad & rightly so...

Now face the music, Lying derfers.

Quote from: Mainframes on November 17, 2015, 07:49:58 AM

Have you ever tries welding a piece of metal that has the other end stuck in a bucket of ice cold water? Try it. I guarantee that the acetylene torch will not cut the metal as too much heat will be drawn away into the water. Once the water has boiled off then the acetylene will cut the metal.

Now we will go back to what Mainframes said before Markjo used his usual tactics trolled and then changed the subject to solder.
Yes you can cut metal with oxy that has the other end stuck in water.

Quote from: Mainframes on November 17, 2015, 07:49:58 AM

Have you ever tries welding a piece of metal that has the other end stuck in a bucket of ice cold water? Try it. I guarantee that the acetylene torch will not cut the metal as too much heat will be drawn away into the water. Once the water has boiled off then the acetylene will cut the metal.

Now we will go back to what Mainframes said before Markjo used his usual tactics trolled and then changed the subject to solder.
Yes you can cut metal with oxy that has the other end stuck in water.

That was a bad example, maybe a better example could be "have u ever tried to cut a hole in the bottom of a thin pot full of water? U won't be able to do that untill the water has evaporated cause the interiore side of the pot we'll remain at about 100 degrees celsius still there's water and since metal are very weel thermal conductive material the exterior of the pot though it's been subjected to the torch won't be able to reach the melting point". In this case the thinner the better, less material means less difference of temperature between the inside and outside

Quote from: markjo on November 19, 2015, 05:33:11 AM

using a torch flame to heat a pipe with water in it is similar to regenerativly cooling a rocket engine.

Oh; & please don't just post a link to a youtube or website; tell us in your own words, eh?

What is the problem with providing links to other sites with explanations? 

Is it just you want to have an argument and score points?  That's not how the real world works.  Look for some links and tell us why they are wrong.  There is no need for detailed explanations here.

Shut up, unluckyfred; nobody cares.

Tappet, like every other welder who has seen this thread, is good & mad & rightly so...

Now face the music, Lying derfers.

Quote from: tappet on November 19, 2015, 12:34:20 PM

Quote from: Mainframes on November 17, 2015, 07:49:58 AM

Have you ever tries welding a piece of metal that has the other end stuck in a bucket of ice cold water? Try it. I guarantee that the acetylene torch will not cut the metal as too much heat will be drawn away into the water. Once the water has boiled off then the acetylene will cut the metal.

Now we will go back to what Mainframes said before Markjo used his usual tactics trolled and then changed the subject to solder.
Yes you can cut metal with oxy that has the other end stuck in water.

U haven't answeres my question which was  inherent to u're claim against space flight

Are u and your fellow welders also aerospace engineer?
Cause Space Flight implies design problem that the majority of us wouldn't even think about and requires solution that have been developed in university and research center and took a huge amount of highly educated people and resources.

As an example I will suggest to look at friction stir welding(welding without actually melting the material), I think your friends would found it strange but it's being used in aerospace industry

Bottom line, there all trolls and people who just say stupid stuff in this forum, but I could also be the occasion to inform ourselves in something we've considered strange or impossible

From Wikipedia:

The solid-state nature of FSW leads to several advantages over fusion welding methods as problems associated with cooling from the liquid phase are avoided. Issues such as porosity, solute redistribution, solidification cracking and liquation cracking do not arise during FSW. In general, FSW has been found to produce a low concentration of defects and is very tolerant of variations in parameters and materials.

Nevertheless, FSW is associated with a number of unique defects. Insufficient weld temperatures, due to low rotational speeds or high traverse speeds, for example, mean that the weld material is unable to accommodate the extensive deformation during welding. This may result in long, tunnel-like defects running along the weld which may occur on the surface or subsurface. Low temperatures may also limit the forging action of the tool and so reduce the continuity of the bond between the material from each side of the weld. The light contact between the material has given rise to the name "kissing-bond". This defect is particularly worrying since it is very difficult to detect using nondestructive methods such as X-ray or ultrasonic testing. If the pin is not long enough or the tool rises out of the plate then the interface at the bottom of the weld may not be disrupted and forged by the tool, resulting in a lack-of-penetration defect. This is essentially a notch in the material which can be a potential source of fatigue cracks.

No wonder it has failed to replace conventional welding methods. If you knew anything about welding, you'd know that NDT is essential to verify the weld is free from surface / subsurface defects.

Quote from: luckyfred on November 19, 2015, 12:15:52 PM

Are u and your fellow welders also aerospace engineer?
Cause Space Flight implies design problem that the majority of us wouldn't even think about and requires solution that have been developed in university and research center and took a huge amount of highly educated people and resources.

As an example I will suggest to look at friction stir welding(welding without actually melting the material), I think your friends would found it strange but it's being used in aerospace industry

Bottom line, there all trolls and people who just say stupid stuff in this forum, but I could also be the occasion to inform ourselves in something we've considered strange or impossible

From Wikipedia:

Quote

The solid-state nature of FSW leads to several advantages over fusion welding methods as problems associated with cooling from the liquid phase are avoided. Issues such as porosity, solute redistribution, solidification cracking and liquation cracking do not arise during FSW. In general, FSW has been found to produce a low concentration of defects and is very tolerant of variations in parameters and materials.

Nevertheless, FSW is associated with a number of unique defects. Insufficient weld temperatures, due to low rotational speeds or high traverse speeds, for example, mean that the weld material is unable to accommodate the extensive deformation during welding. This may result in long, tunnel-like defects running along the weld which may occur on the surface or subsurface. Low temperatures may also limit the forging action of the tool and so reduce the continuity of the bond between the material from each side of the weld. The light contact between the material has given rise to the name "kissing-bond". This defect is particularly worrying since it is very difficult to detect using nondestructive methods such as X-ray or ultrasonic testing. If the pin is not long enough or the tool rises out of the plate then the interface at the bottom of the weld may not be disrupted and forged by the tool, resulting in a lack-of-penetration defect. This is essentially a notch in the material which can be a potential source of fatigue cracks.

No wonder it has failed to replace conventional welding methods. If you knew anything about welding, you'd know that NDT is essential to verify the weld is free from surface / subsurface defects.

FSW it's not meant to replace conventional welding, it,s a method of welnding introduce in aerospace industry in which traditional welding techniques it's not well suited  to join the alloy usually used in this industry. Traditional welding is still the best for steel but for particular titanium and alluminium alloy it's not always possible

Quote from: markjo on November 19, 2015, 09:36:46 AM

if your welder buddies think that we're spouting nonsense, then I'd rather hear it from them than from you

I already told you, Humpty Dumpty; they think you're a nutter.They don't care what you think.

And we only have your word for that.

Because you talk like a nutter.

Yeah, you talk like a nutter too, so I guess that makes us even.

Why would a professional welder join a flat earth forum just to try & talk sense into nutters who write nutter-stuff like that?

I don't know.  Why did you join?

Quote from: markjo on November 19, 2015, 08:35:46 AM

Secondly, the coolant running through the tubes is a cryogenic liquid, not a gas. 

Apprently, the LOX will only be liquid when under the extreme high pressure found within the fuel tank.

As soon as it is released from the high-pressure tank it will immediately revert to gaseous form.

Yup, LOX is only ever a liquid when under pressure.
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It seems like your welder buddy is an idiot too.

Papa - could you explain why exactly the LOX undergoes a large enough pressure drop to vaporise?

Mainframes: answer tappet's question, ignoramus.

Markjo: how does your unpressurised & cryogenically frozen LOX get out of the cylinder for use in welding?

Magic?

Tell you what - knock the valve off a cylinder of welders LOX & see whether a gas or a liquid comes out...

Hopefully it'll kill you, but in the event you survive here is the latest text from the 'idiot' welder you seem so obsessively determined to refuse to allow me to have as a mate:

'Paris 13/11 - NEVAR BAGUETTE!'

Oh; & if you think that your b.s. cryogenic LOX can survive being pumped through a paper-thin steel tube heated to 3500C without becoming a gas lickety-spit you're even more insane than everyone thinks you are.

Which is very insane indeed.

& we ain't even started on the hydrogen yet; most combustible gas around - perfect for cooling an engine!

It'll work juuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuust FINE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!