Earth's Magnetic Field

Quote from: JRoweSkeptic on April 28, 2015, 05:24:18 AM

Quote from: Mainframes on April 28, 2015, 05:21:20 AM

Quote from: JRoweSkeptic on April 28, 2015, 05:13:23 AM

Quote from: Mainframes on April 28, 2015, 05:08:02 AM

Quote from: JRoweSkeptic on April 28, 2015, 04:47:39 AM

the first thing i would say is that if you correct your map so it is the same shape as the dual earth model (and so the shape of the world in reality), those magnetic lines would seem to match the lines of the aetheric whirlpools. that's an interesting observation, if not an argument.
my only question would be how exactly you determine that those lines represent the earth's magnetic field. typically, they are calculated by theory: that doesn't make them true in practise.

Magnetic field lines have been both observed directly by actually measuring them; this is pretty simple, and also historically by looking at the geology of earths crust.

those aren't the lines rayzor depicted in his most recent illustration.

Yes they are. Quite clearly they are. That is esentially how that diagram came to be completed, due to measured evidence.

i suggest you actually look at the 'recent illustration' i was referring to and tell me how on earth lines that far from the earth's surface could be found by direct obseration and geology. i am still actually waiting for a description of how they're measured. you've just handwaved it and said they are. how?

The field line direction in the Earths crust is measured. From those measurements it is very easy to extrapolate a bar magnet diagram, as we have a very good understanding of how magnetic fields behave.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Earth%27s_magnetic_field#Measurement_and_analysis

ahh, more evasion. have fun with that.

Quote from: Mainframes on April 28, 2015, 05:33:18 AM

Quote from: JRoweSkeptic on April 28, 2015, 05:24:18 AM

Quote from: Mainframes on April 28, 2015, 05:21:20 AM

Quote from: JRoweSkeptic on April 28, 2015, 05:13:23 AM

Quote from: Mainframes on April 28, 2015, 05:08:02 AM

Quote from: JRoweSkeptic on April 28, 2015, 04:47:39 AM

the first thing i would say is that if you correct your map so it is the same shape as the dual earth model (and so the shape of the world in reality), those magnetic lines would seem to match the lines of the aetheric whirlpools. that's an interesting observation, if not an argument.
my only question would be how exactly you determine that those lines represent the earth's magnetic field. typically, they are calculated by theory: that doesn't make them true in practise.

Magnetic field lines have been both observed directly by actually measuring them; this is pretty simple, and also historically by looking at the geology of earths crust.

those aren't the lines rayzor depicted in his most recent illustration.

Yes they are. Quite clearly they are. That is esentially how that diagram came to be completed, due to measured evidence.

i suggest you actually look at the 'recent illustration' i was referring to and tell me how on earth lines that far from the earth's surface could be found by direct obseration and geology. i am still actually waiting for a description of how they're measured. you've just handwaved it and said they are. how?

The field line direction in the Earths crust is measured. From those measurements it is very easy to extrapolate a bar magnet diagram, as we have a very good understanding of how magnetic fields behave.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Earth%27s_magnetic_field#Measurement_and_analysis

ahh, more evasion. have fun with that.

You don't have to believe my diagram,   just go out and buy yourself a compass,   probably will cost you less that $1,   now place it on a flat surface ( away from any other magnets or magnetic material ) and observe the needle from the side,  you will notice that the needle doesn't sit flat, it is tilted.   The amount of tilt and the direction of the tilt depends where you are on earth since the compass lines up with the magnetic field lines, which not only run north and south but intersect the earth at an angle,  and in the southern hemisphere the compass needle tilts one way and northern hemisphere it tilts the other way.   The closer you get to the poles the more pronounced the tilt will be.
In the dual earth model the field lines are going to be at right angles to the surface, so this is an easy test to prove the dual earth model does not reflect reality,  in fact I'll go one step further, and point out that compasses would not work at all on your dual earth model, since they will be mostly point straight up and down,  rather than mostly north south.

So over to you for a diagram of the dual earth magnetic field that explains what anyone can observe with a $1 compass.   Do I need to point out that the spherical earth model matches observations perfectly. 

Here's one on ebay for $1 free postage http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/Mini-Pocket-Button-Design-Compass-Derection-for-Hiking-Camping-Outdoor-Sport-/121630013890?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_15&hash=item1c51b6b9c2
Will someone explain how they can make and sell that with free postage for less than the cost of a stamp... WTF.
 

the compass would point towards the poles on the dual earth model, because that is where the magetic field exists.

you raise a good point with tilting, however: i will say that. the problem is that is still explained simply by angle. the source of the magnetic field comes from directly below the pole: when you are not directly above the pole, the compass needle will have to tilt to be drawn towards it.

the compass would point towards the poles on the dual earth model, because that is where the magetic field exists.

Umm no,  that's  incorrect,   the compass  needle lines up with the magnetic field lines,  it just happens the field lines on earth run mostly north/south, in a dual earth model the field lines are vertical not horizontal.   
Ergo,   the dual earth fails to explain what we observe with a $1 compass.   

The flat earth disk magnet model with south pole all around the outside edge is a nice try, except that fails when we notice the south magnetic pole is a single location, so the disk magnet theory collapses, thus the flat earth model collapses,  since a flat earth can't have two poles.

Maybe you can clarify the dual earth model by showing what you think is the magnetic field diagram

Just a follow up on magnetic inclination,  I found out that  some good quality compasses come pre-balanced to cancel the inclination, some companies  sell them in different version depending on the region where you live.   There are also some compass manufactures that have come up with global balancing schemes to cancel inclination  http://www.recta.ch/en/declination-and-inclination   

as requested, i have made a diagram of the north pole. you can easily deduce how the south will act. i would also ask that you take into account the dual earth map: proportions will not be exactly the same as your round earth.

The south will be a mirror image of the north.   But that's going to be a problem for the dual earth model,   it will still mean the force lines are vertical on the earth surface,   I'm not sure it can be fixed to match reality without making it into a globe.   ( That would be my answer,   wrap the top and bottom of the dual earth around a sphere   )  But I can understand your reluctance to go with that solution.

What about having a disk of magnetic material between the two halves of the dual earth, that distorts the magnetic field to behave in exactly the way we see in reality?   

Of course that might be seen by some as cheating...   wouldn't it,   then we would have to come up with detailed explanations of what the magnetic material was, why it focussed the field  in a particular way etc..

What other choices are there?

Well, congratulations.  You may have just given birth to aetheric magnets.  Aether will now gain this property since it can do everything else and because we can claim it alone can do all these different things supposedly makes it simpler. 
Yep heated and compressed aether in between the two discs has a magnetic field.  Why it must have, we observe the magnetic field, I suspect it will aid in the light bending and transportation also.  It will also probably help in explaining the force of gravity.  Such a magical substance... oops not a substance unless it gets dense enough.. wait how does a massless substance,  no wait massless space, become more dense?  No matter, we observe the effects we claim it has so it must be true.

face meet palm.

The south will be a mirror image of the north.   But that's going to be a problem for the dual earth model,   it will still mean the force lines are vertical on the earth surface,   I'm not sure it can be fixed to match reality without making it into a globe.   ( That would be my answer,   wrap the top and bottom of the dual earth around a sphere   )  But I can understand your reluctance to go with that solution.

What about having a disk of magnetic material between the two halves of the dual earth, that distorts the magnetic field to behave in exactly the way we see in reality?   

Of course that might be seen by some as cheating...   wouldn't it,   then we would have to come up with detailed explanations of what the magnetic material was, why it focussed the field  in a particular way etc..

What other choices are there?

the force lines are vertical at the pole. they are not elsewhere, why would they be? they come to earth at an angle. given that when we use compasses it tends not to be at the pole...
i do not overcomplicate my theory. dual earth theory is inherently a simpler model, with less assumptions, than the others.

Quote from: Rayzor on April 29, 2015, 08:34:41 AM

The south will be a mirror image of the north.   But that's going to be a problem for the dual earth model,   it will still mean the force lines are vertical on the earth surface,   I'm not sure it can be fixed to match reality without making it into a globe.   ( That would be my answer,   wrap the top and bottom of the dual earth around a sphere   )  But I can understand your reluctance to go with that solution.

What about having a disk of magnetic material between the two halves of the dual earth, that distorts the magnetic field to behave in exactly the way we see in reality?   

Of course that might be seen by some as cheating...   wouldn't it,   then we would have to come up with detailed explanations of what the magnetic material was, why it focussed the field  in a particular way etc..

What other choices are there?

the force lines are vertical at the pole. they are not elsewhere, why would they be? they come to earth at an angle. given that when we use compasses it tends not to be at the pole...
i do not overcomplicate my theory. dual earth theory is inherently a simpler model, with less assumptions, than the others.

Apart from the masses of assumptions you've had to make about the properties of aether with absolutely no evidence to support those assumptions whatsoever.

as requested, i have made a diagram of the north pole. you can easily deduce how the south will act. i would also ask that you take into account the dual earth map: proportions will not be exactly the same as your round earth.

No, that's not going to work,  the field lines are symmetrical,  about the central axis,  so you need to draw the field lines below the dual earth as a mirror image of those above the dual earth. 

We know the earth has two poles,  like a giant bar magnet,  so you need to start with the field of a bar magnet, and try to come up with an arrangement that somehow distorts the bar magnet field into the intersection angles of a spherical surface.   



Could you increase the separation between the top and bottom disks?

Quote from: JRoweSkeptic on April 29, 2015, 12:46:07 PM

Quote from: Rayzor on April 29, 2015, 08:34:41 AM

The south will be a mirror image of the north.   But that's going to be a problem for the dual earth model,   it will still mean the force lines are vertical on the earth surface,   I'm not sure it can be fixed to match reality without making it into a globe.   ( That would be my answer,   wrap the top and bottom of the dual earth around a sphere   )  But I can understand your reluctance to go with that solution.

What about having a disk of magnetic material between the two halves of the dual earth, that distorts the magnetic field to behave in exactly the way we see in reality?   

Of course that might be seen by some as cheating...   wouldn't it,   then we would have to come up with detailed explanations of what the magnetic material was, why it focussed the field  in a particular way etc..

What other choices are there?

the force lines are vertical at the pole. they are not elsewhere, why would they be? they come to earth at an angle. given that when we use compasses it tends not to be at the pole...
i do not overcomplicate my theory. dual earth theory is inherently a simpler model, with less assumptions, than the others.

Apart from the masses of assumptions you've had to make about the properties of aether with absolutely no evidence to support those assumptions whatsoever.

if you have zero knowledge about my theory, as your bs just there has made clear, refrain from commenting on it. amazing how you think assertion is somehow a valid argument, especially assertion about something you know absolutely nothing about.

rotate your diagram ninety degrees. the north pole is at the top, the south is at the bottom. it looks very similar.
the only distortions would come from the aetheric whirlpools (as clearly alterations in space will alter seeming distance and so angle).

rotate your diagram ninety degrees. the north pole is at the top, the south is at the bottom. it looks very similar.
the only distortions would come from the aetheric whirlpools (as clearly alterations in space will alter seeming distance and so angle).

I tried that and  with shrinking and stretching  I still can't get away from the field lines running vertically through the dual earth model,  one thing that would help is to move the two halves of the dual earth  a long way further apart.     But it's your model,  so you should see if you can make the field lines intersect properly,  maybe multiple magnets are needed?

All I really wanted to point out is the inconsistency of all the models with the exception of the spherical earth model with the observed magnetic fields.

Quote from: JRoweSkeptic on April 30, 2015, 06:19:28 AM

rotate your diagram ninety degrees. the north pole is at the top, the south is at the bottom. it looks very similar.
the only distortions would come from the aetheric whirlpools (as clearly alterations in space will alter seeming distance and so angle).

I tried that and  with shrinking and stretching  I still can't get away from the field lines running vertically through the dual earth model,  one thing that would help is to move the two halves of the dual earth  a long way further apart.     But it's your model,  so you should see if you can make the field lines intersect properly,  maybe multiple magnets are needed?

All I really wanted to point out is the inconsistency of all the models with the exception of the spherical earth model with the observed magnetic fields.

Then he should make the two sides of duel Earth into hemispheres andconnect them together so he doesn't need that aether portal nonsense.

Quote from: Rayzor on April 30, 2015, 07:22:17 AM

Quote from: JRoweSkeptic on April 30, 2015, 06:19:28 AM

rotate your diagram ninety degrees. the north pole is at the top, the south is at the bottom. it looks very similar.
the only distortions would come from the aetheric whirlpools (as clearly alterations in space will alter seeming distance and so angle).

I tried that and  with shrinking and stretching  I still can't get away from the field lines running vertically through the dual earth model,  one thing that would help is to move the two halves of the dual earth  a long way further apart.     But it's your model,  so you should see if you can make the field lines intersect properly,  maybe multiple magnets are needed?

All I really wanted to point out is the inconsistency of all the models with the exception of the spherical earth model with the observed magnetic fields.

Then he should make the two sides of duel Earth into hemispheres andconnect them together so he doesn't need that aether portal nonsense.

don't talk about a theory you clearly understand nothing about. there are no portals, and no nonsense. everything is well explained and logical.

the round earth model has been shredded multiple times on this forum. i'm amazed you still cling to it.

Quote from: JRoweSkeptic on April 30, 2015, 06:19:28 AM

rotate your diagram ninety degrees. the north pole is at the top, the south is at the bottom. it looks very similar.
the only distortions would come from the aetheric whirlpools (as clearly alterations in space will alter seeming distance and so angle).

I tried that and  with shrinking and stretching  I still can't get away from the field lines running vertically through the dual earth model,  one thing that would help is to move the two halves of the dual earth  a long way further apart.     But it's your model,  so you should see if you can make the field lines intersect properly,  maybe multiple magnets are needed?

All I really wanted to point out is the inconsistency of all the models with the exception of the spherical earth model with the observed magnetic fields.

the line swill be vertical to the pole no matter what shape the world is. the fact is, you can't directly measure behavior at the pole when you're not at the pole. you measure only the magnetic field that reaches you: which does point you to the pole, but it does more than just that.

Quote from: mikeman7918 on April 30, 2015, 09:00:11 AM

Quote from: Rayzor on April 30, 2015, 07:22:17 AM

Quote from: JRoweSkeptic on April 30, 2015, 06:19:28 AM

rotate your diagram ninety degrees. the north pole is at the top, the south is at the bottom. it looks very similar.
the only distortions would come from the aetheric whirlpools (as clearly alterations in space will alter seeming distance and so angle).

I tried that and  with shrinking and stretching  I still can't get away from the field lines running vertically through the dual earth model,  one thing that would help is to move the two halves of the dual earth  a long way further apart.     But it's your model,  so you should see if you can make the field lines intersect properly,  maybe multiple magnets are needed?

All I really wanted to point out is the inconsistency of all the models with the exception of the spherical earth model with the observed magnetic fields.

Then he should make the two sides of duel Earth into hemispheres andconnect them together so he doesn't need that aether portal nonsense.

don't talk about a theory you clearly understand nothing about. there are no portals, and no nonsense. everything is well explained and logical.

the round earth model has been shredded multiple times on this forum. i'm amazed you still cling to it.

So are you saying that there is an edge to the Earth on the equator that nobody notices?  Also, I have never seen a decent argument from you against a round Earth and my forum signature links to sources proving the Earth is round.

Quote from: Rayzor on April 30, 2015, 07:22:17 AM

Quote from: JRoweSkeptic on April 30, 2015, 06:19:28 AM

rotate your diagram ninety degrees. the north pole is at the top, the south is at the bottom. it looks very similar.
the only distortions would come from the aetheric whirlpools (as clearly alterations in space will alter seeming distance and so angle).

I tried that and  with shrinking and stretching  I still can't get away from the field lines running vertically through the dual earth model,  one thing that would help is to move the two halves of the dual earth  a long way further apart.     But it's your model,  so you should see if you can make the field lines intersect properly,  maybe multiple magnets are needed?

All I really wanted to point out is the inconsistency of all the models with the exception of the spherical earth model with the observed magnetic fields.

the line swill be vertical to the pole no matter what shape the world is. the fact is, you can't directly measure behavior at the pole when you're not at the pole. you measure only the magnetic field that reaches you: which does point you to the pole, but it does more than just that.

Best answer is if you could draw a diagram,  showing how compass needles point to north  ( and not up and down )  on a dual earth.   I tried and can't do it.   

Quote from: JRoweSkeptic on May 01, 2015, 08:52:04 AM

Quote from: mikeman7918 on April 30, 2015, 09:00:11 AM

Quote from: Rayzor on April 30, 2015, 07:22:17 AM

Quote from: JRoweSkeptic on April 30, 2015, 06:19:28 AM

rotate your diagram ninety degrees. the north pole is at the top, the south is at the bottom. it looks very similar.
the only distortions would come from the aetheric whirlpools (as clearly alterations in space will alter seeming distance and so angle).

I tried that and  with shrinking and stretching  I still can't get away from the field lines running vertically through the dual earth model,  one thing that would help is to move the two halves of the dual earth  a long way further apart.     But it's your model,  so you should see if you can make the field lines intersect properly,  maybe multiple magnets are needed?

All I really wanted to point out is the inconsistency of all the models with the exception of the spherical earth model with the observed magnetic fields.

Then he should make the two sides of duel Earth into hemispheres andconnect them together so he doesn't need that aether portal nonsense.

don't talk about a theory you clearly understand nothing about. there are no portals, and no nonsense. everything is well explained and logical.

the round earth model has been shredded multiple times on this forum. i'm amazed you still cling to it.

So are you saying that there is an edge to the Earth on the equator that nobody notices?  Also, I have never seen a decent argument from you against a round Earth and my forum signature links to sources proving the Earth is round.

you clearly know nothing about dual earth theory. please, at least try to read the basics. the very, very basics. space is thin at the equator, meaning there seems to be no distance crossed at the equator (so light also is transferred: it moves through space). please, seriously, try to educate yourself before you asks uch stupid questions. do you really think you're the first person to have asked that?!
and look at that, you're back to your pathetic argument from exhaustion and mastubatory self-reference and acting like dual earth theory has the same weaknesses as classical flat earth theory. educate yourself. seriously.

Quote from: JRoweSkeptic on May 01, 2015, 08:54:53 AM

Quote from: Rayzor on April 30, 2015, 07:22:17 AM

Quote from: JRoweSkeptic on April 30, 2015, 06:19:28 AM

rotate your diagram ninety degrees. the north pole is at the top, the south is at the bottom. it looks very similar.
the only distortions would come from the aetheric whirlpools (as clearly alterations in space will alter seeming distance and so angle).

I tried that and  with shrinking and stretching  I still can't get away from the field lines running vertically through the dual earth model,  one thing that would help is to move the two halves of the dual earth  a long way further apart.     But it's your model,  so you should see if you can make the field lines intersect properly,  maybe multiple magnets are needed?

All I really wanted to point out is the inconsistency of all the models with the exception of the spherical earth model with the observed magnetic fields.

the line swill be vertical to the pole no matter what shape the world is. the fact is, you can't directly measure behavior at the pole when you're not at the pole. you measure only the magnetic field that reaches you: which does point you to the pole, but it does more than just that.

Best answer is if you could draw a diagram,  showing how compass needles point to north  ( and not up and down )  on a dual earth.   I tried and can't do it.

how to compass needles know where to point?
answer that. to my knowledge they follow the magnetic field, in which case dual earth theory matches observations.

Jrowe, fuel Earth still has many of the weaknesses of FET including the lack of an explenation for sunsets and time zones.  Also, you clearly don't know how magnetic field lines work because it would mean that on a duel Earth compases would point up or down.

Jrowe, fuel Earth still has many of the weaknesses of FET including the lack of an explenation for sunsets and time zones.  Also, you clearly don't know how magnetic field lines work because it would mean that on a duel Earth compases would point up or down.

more lies. seriously, educate yourself on a theory. i've even specifically addressed sunsets lately. this is getting tedious.

Quote from: mikeman7918 on May 02, 2015, 08:54:50 AM

Jrowe, fuel Earth still has many of the weaknesses of FET including the lack of an explenation for sunsets and time zones.  Also, you clearly don't know how magnetic field lines work because it would mean that on a duel Earth compases would point up or down.

more lies. seriously, educate yourself on a theory. i've even specifically addressed sunsets lately. this is getting tedious.

Mikeman has got it right.   You need to  modify your dual earth theory to explain magnetic fields we can easily observe.   Or just admit the earth is round.

Quote from: JRoweSkeptic on May 02, 2015, 08:56:29 AM

Quote from: mikeman7918 on May 02, 2015, 08:54:50 AM

Jrowe, fuel Earth still has many of the weaknesses of FET including the lack of an explenation for sunsets and time zones.  Also, you clearly don't know how magnetic field lines work because it would mean that on a duel Earth compases would point up or down.

more lies. seriously, educate yourself on a theory. i've even specifically addressed sunsets lately. this is getting tedious.

Mikeman has got it right.   You need to  modify your dual earth theory to explain magnetic fields we can easily observe.   Or just admit the earth is round.

And also, just by saying a is right just because i think so, and b is right because of a deduction of an a which is obviously right (because i said so), is wrong.

more lies. seriously, educate yourself on a theory. i've even specifically addressed sunsets lately. this is getting tedious.

What do you mean "more lies"?  Are you suggesting that magnetism doesn't work like we think despite many experiments I can do in my own house that can prove you wrong?  Iron filings clump together along magnetic field lines when you place a magnet next to them and this is what it looks like:


Magnets tend to align to be parallel to the magnetic field lines.  This means that on an Earth the shape you propose compasses would point up or down while on a round Earth they point north.  No lies involved, that's just how magnets work.

Quote from: JRoweSkeptic on May 02, 2015, 08:56:29 AM

more lies. seriously, educate yourself on a theory. i've even specifically addressed sunsets lately. this is getting tedious.

What do you mean "more lies"?  Are you suggesting that magnetism doesn't work like we think despite many experiments I can do in my own house that can prove you wrong?  Iron filings clump together along magnetic field lines when you place a magnet next to them and this is what it looks like:


Magnets tend to align to be parallel to the magnetic field lines.  This means that on an Earth the shape you propose compasses would point up or down while on a round Earth they point north.  No lies involved, that's just how magnets work.

you were lying abotu dual earth theory. are you capable of reading posts? look at what i quoted. read it. radical thought: maybe i am responding to the post which i quoted.
seriously.

if you want to talk about magnets, remember that the magnetic pole is inside the earth. look at the magnetic field above the magnet.

Quote from: mikeman7918 on May 02, 2015, 04:50:51 PM

Quote from: JRoweSkeptic on May 02, 2015, 08:56:29 AM

more lies. seriously, educate yourself on a theory. i've even specifically addressed sunsets lately. this is getting tedious.

What do you mean "more lies"?  Are you suggesting that magnetism doesn't work like we think despite many experiments I can do in my own house that can prove you wrong?  Iron filings clump together along magnetic field lines when you place a magnet next to them and this is what it looks like:


Magnets tend to align to be parallel to the magnetic field lines.  This means that on an Earth the shape you propose compasses would point up or down while on a round Earth they point north.  No lies involved, that's just how magnets work.

you were lying abotu dual earth theory. are you capable of reading posts? look at what i quoted. read it. radical thought: maybe i am responding to the post which i quoted.
seriously.

if you want to talk about magnets, remember that the magnetic pole is inside the earth. look at the magnetic field above the magnet.

So if the red part is at the North and the blue bit is at the South then the field lines would coming straight up out of the ground which is precisely what we don't see.

how to compass needles know where to point?
answer that. to my knowledge they follow the magnetic field, in which case dual earth theory matches observations.

Sketch it then (with full field lines, not just half). Currently there is no way the observed field lines match up with how you are explaining the field lines for a dual-earth.