Earth's Magnetic Field

The flat earth Q&A tells me that the earth's magnetic field is like a speaker magnet with North Pole in the center, and South Pole all around the rim,  this theory doesn't agree with the observations of magnetic declination.



Image from here..  http://www.ngdc.noaa.gov/geomag/WMM/data/WMM2010/WMM2010_D_MERC.pdf

This shows clearly that the ring magnet theory can't be correct.   Maps show clearly that the earth has two poles.   This is not possible on a flat earth.

Explanations welcome.

No, No, No, you can't just jump in to the pool head first like that.  They will attack. 
Start off small, work your way into something more meaty, otherwise they will do their best to aggravate you into leaving.

Interesting stuff though.
They will however distort it or claim it is a government paid for map so it must be part of the conspiracy
 

No, No, No, you can't just jump in to the pool head first like that. 

Didn't jump,  I was pushed..       now I'm trying to get out without drowning in stupid conspiracies...

Its ok, relax, it's late and jroa doesn't seem to be interested.  You may be safe.  I'll throw you a lifeline if possible. 
So with what he said, I personally believe that this shows a hole in the flat Earth idea's explanation of the magnetic field.  Anyone care to elaborate?
The magnetic North and South poles are not at the axis of rotation which is why we have to use magnetic declination if you use paper maps and a good ole compass to navigate by.
With the disc flat Earth map where is the North and South magnetic poles? 
With the infinity flat Earth map where would these be also?


There I'll act like bait till you get safely to shore, they like to bite at me anyway.

The map does not show the northern magnetic pole, only the southern one.  And, the only part of that magnetic field map that would not work on a flat Earth (with the conventional layout and basic shape of the flat Earth) is the location of this southern magnetic pole.  As you and I and virtually everyone else on this Earth will never go to the southern magnetic pole, much less go there with any kind of scientific equipment to verify its location, then we are only left either taking NASA's word that this is where it is located or we can question the intention of those who try to make us believe this.  Could there be an ulterior motive for them to tell you that this is where the southern magnetic pole is located?  Perhaps it is to perpetuate the Round Earth Myth?  Think about that for a moment. 

If you were to go there yourself and find the magnetic South Pole is in fact a single location,  would that be sufficient to disprove the flat earth theory?   

If you were to go there yourself and find the magnetic South Pole is in fact a single location,  would that be sufficient to disprove the flat earth theory?   

No, it would only mean that a small portion of the flat Earth theory needs to be reevaluated. 

Quote from: Rayzor on April 24, 2015, 06:50:00 AM

If you were to go there yourself and find the magnetic South Pole is in fact a single location,  would that be sufficient to disprove the flat earth theory?   

No, it would only mean that a small portion of the flat Earth theory needs to be reevaluated.

Fair enough,   I could ask how the flat Earth theory would need to be modified,  but instead  I'd rather know  what would you regard as definitive proof one way or another.    To my mind a picture of the edge would be the clincher proving a flat earth,   what would you regard as definitive proof of a round earth? 

Oh,  if you had have answered yes, I would have suggested you book a ticket on this flight.  http://www.antarcticaflights.com.au/What-To-Expect

dual earth theory allows for the existence of two poles.

could you please explain your diagram? what is it the contours and colors represent? presentinga  technical image with no explanation is not going to help you getting answers.

dual earth theory allows for the existence of two poles.

could you please explain your diagram? what is it the contours and colors represent? presentinga  technical image with no explanation is not going to help you getting answers.

He was not asking for answers, he was saying what is presented is impossible on a FE.

dual earth theory allows for the existence of two poles.

could you please explain your diagram? what is it the contours and colors represent? presentinga  technical image with no explanation is not going to help you getting answers.

The diagram shows that the South Magnetic Pole is a point,  it shows that point is located somewhere around lattitude 65 degrees south,   since the flat earth theory has the north pole in the center, and the south pole as the edge this diagram disproves that model.   

Since the South Magnetic Pole is a single point, that means there is no edge,  ergo flat earth theory is dead. 

Of course, the diehards will say the data is faked, which is why I point out that anyone,  ANYONE, can book a flight on the new years eve Qantas Antarctic flight,  that does in fact fly over the south magnetic pole.  So you can take your own compass and verify it for yourself.

Dual earth theory is a desperate and confused attempt to hang onto the impossible.  Sorry.

The southern magnetic pole is not at the edge in FET.  It is located directly below the north magnetic pole. 

Also, if someone did book this flight over the southern magnetic pole and brought a compass with them, what would you expect the compass to do and how would this show that you are actually at the southern magnetic pole? 

Dual earth theory is a desperate and confused attempt to hang onto the impossible. 

It answers your question. Ergo, flat earth theory is still easily true. Sorry.

you answered none of my questions. try again, this time actually reading the post you're responding to.

Your compass needle would be sucked down and then point towards the pole again. Put a magnet on a table, and slowly move a compass over it.

Dual earth theory is a desperate and confused attempt to hang onto the impossible. 

It answers your question. Ergo, flat earth theory is still easily true. Sorry.

you answered none of my questions. try again, this time actually reading the post you're responding to.

I'll try,  in baby steps.  I'm surprised you didn't read my answer already

1. The earth is a magnet. 
2. Magnets have two poles,  a North Pole and a South Pole.
3. Flat earth Wiki tells me that in Flat Earth theory the earth's magnetic field is like a disc magnet with North Pole in the center, and South Pole all around the edge.
4. The map posted shows lines of magnetic declination,  which clearly shows the South Pole as a single point, and shows the location as about 65 S.
5. This means the Flat Earth model is wrong,   The concave earth model likewise is wrong**.  The spherical model still works perfectly.
6.  FIrst response to the question, was, that the data must be faked. 
7.  The Qantas antarctic flights go over the South Magnetic Pole,  so you can easily verify for yourself.   The compass will flip 180 as you fly over the pole.

8. So that leaves the Dual Earth model,  which relies on magic aether and teleportation at the equator,   how does this model explain the earths magnetic field,  compass needles still point north even when in the southern hemisphere.   

You can's just make the assertion that dual earth explains everything without offering any clarification,  or what evidence exists for any part of the aetheric magic teleportation theory.

How about starting with your dual earth diagram of the earth's magnetic field.

** I didn't elaborate why the concave model is wrong,  compass needles point towards the poles,  ( we all know that )  what is less well known is that the magnetic lines of force are at an angle to the earth depending on your lattitude,  a compass needle at the pole will align vertically straight up and down.  This agrees with the magnetic field coming from inside the earth.   

Quote from: JRoweSkeptic on April 25, 2015, 09:11:17 AM

Dual earth theory is a desperate and confused attempt to hang onto the impossible. 

It answers your question. Ergo, flat earth theory is still easily true. Sorry.

you answered none of my questions. try again, this time actually reading the post you're responding to.

I'll try,  in baby steps.  I'm surprised you didn't read my answer already

1. The earth is a magnet. 
2. Magnets have two poles,  a North Pole and a South Pole.
3. Flat earth Wiki tells me that in Flat Earth theory the earth's magnetic field is like a disc magnet with North Pole in the center, and South Pole all around the edge.
4. The map posted shows lines of magnetic declination,  which clearly shows the South Pole as a single point, and shows the location as about 65 S.
5. This means the Flat Earth model is wrong,   The concave earth model likewise is wrong**.  The spherical model still works perfectly.
6.  FIrst response to the question, was, that the data must be faked. 
7.  The Qantas antarctic flights go over the South Magnetic Pole,  so you can easily verify for yourself.   The compass will flip 180 as you fly over the pole.

8. So that leaves the Dual Earth model,  which relies on magic aether and teleportation at the equator,   how does this model explain the earths magnetic field,  compass needles still point north even when in the southern hemisphere.   

You can's just make the assertion that dual earth explains everything without offering any clarification,  or what evidence exists for any part of the aetheric magic teleportation theory.

How about starting with your dual earth diagram of the earth's magnetic field.

** I didn't elaborate why the concave model is wrong,  compass needles point towards the poles,  ( we all know that )  what is less well known is that the magnetic lines of force are at an angle to the earth depending on your lattitude,  a compass needle at the pole will align vertically straight up and down.  This agrees with the magnetic field coming from inside the earth.

the wiki is out of date, and dual earth theory is simply a refinement of flat earth theory.
the evidence for aetheric transmission is that we can cross the equator. in the dual earth model, aether is space: it clearly exists, the only query you could make is whether space possesses specific properties, but all of those i give are logical deductions. you can disagree if you want, that's your choice, but it is possible. the transmission at the equator is simply to do with thinner space. my favorite analogy is of a spring. the length along the metal is constant, but you can stretch it or compress it so it seems to occupy different distances. as for why space is thinner there, that's to do with the creation of the earth, but that's a long story. i have a 'my flat earth model' thread in the repository which, starting at the bottom of page two, begins to explain things in detail. there is a lot to the theory.

on magnetic fields, specifically, they do come from the center of the earth. the sun exists in the center of the earth (long story, again, i refer you to the model thread), and as superheated metal, rotating, set between the poles, it provides the magnetic field of the earth.

the evidence for aetheric transmission is that we can cross the equator.

Huh?  are you seriously putting that forward as evidence?   
 When I stand on the equator and look north, I see polaris on the horizon, and stars rotating anticlockwise,  and then without moving I look south and I see the south celestial pole on the horizon and stars rotating clockwise,  did I just magically flip from one side to the other without moving?  Now again without moving I look up and observe stars travelling east to west overhead..   

Conclusion... the earth is a sphere.

My apologies,   the topic here was magnetic fields,  I'm drifting off on other topics,  but the objection to instantaneous flipping still stands.

Quote from: JRoweSkeptic on April 26, 2015, 05:17:31 AM

the evidence for aetheric transmission is that we can cross the equator.

Huh?  are you seriously putting that forward as evidence?   
 When I stand on the equator and look north, I see polaris on the horizon, and stars rotating anticlockwise,  and then without moving I look south and I see the south celestial pole on the horizon and stars rotating clockwise,  did I just magically flip from one side to the other without moving?  Now again without moving I look up and observe stars travelling east to west overhead..   

Conclusion... the earth is a sphere.

My apologies,   the topic here was magnetic fields,  I'm drifting off on other topics,  but the objection to instantaneous flipping still stands.

do you really think you're the first person to propose that? it's a feeble objection, and does not even begin to work. why wouldn't light be transmitted as people are? we are talking about space. light goes through space, did you forget that?
please don't act as though the most obvious objections are instat disproofs. they've been said and disregarded before.

it is valid evidence, because scientific theories are founded on two principles: 1. explaining observations. 2. relies on fewest assumptions.
dual earth theory achieves 1, and in this way the fact we can cross the equator is indeed evidence. i would happily argue it achieves 2, but that is a lengthy topic. the only complex elements are conclusions, but conclusions are not assumptions, so that renders it more reliable.

why does that objection stand? both poles exist on the dual earth model.

Ok,  let's  kill off this dual  earth model.   The magnetic field is not observed to do a flip at the equator.

The magnetic field of earth is at an angle to the surface,  depending on lattitude,  if you have two flat surfaces with the sun generating the magnetic field between them ( your diagram ) then the magnetic field lines will be at right angles to the surface on top and bottom earth.   Since we observe that the field lines are at angles varying smoothly with lattitude,   and generally somewhat horizontal,  this pattern is only consistent with one model, and I'll leave you to guess which one that is.

Of course I'm expecting that you will just keep modifying your dual earth theory.   Looking forward to the next incarnation.

Ok,  let's  kill off this dual  earth model.   The magnetic field is not observed to do a flip at the equator.

The magnetic field of earth is at an angle to the surface,  depending on lattitude,  if you have two flat surfaces with the sun generating the magnetic field between them ( your diagram ) then the magnetic field lines will be at right angles to the surface on top and bottom earth.   Since we observe that the field lines are at angles varying smoothly with lattitude,   and generally somewhat horizontal,  this pattern is only consistent with one model, and I'll leave you to guess which one that is.

Of course I'm expecting that you will just keep modifying your dual earth theory.   Looking forward to the next incarnation.

why would the dual earth model require a flip at the equator? the northward magnetic pull acts through space, it still crosses the equator. similarly for the south pole.

i don't need to modify the theory, the increased distance from the pole explains observations.

Quote from: Rayzor on April 26, 2015, 09:24:34 AM

Ok,  let's  kill off this dual  earth model.   The magnetic field is not observed to do a flip at the equator.

The magnetic field of earth is at an angle to the surface,  depending on lattitude,  if you have two flat surfaces with the sun generating the magnetic field between them ( your diagram ) then the magnetic field lines will be at right angles to the surface on top and bottom earth.   Since we observe that the field lines are at angles varying smoothly with lattitude,   and generally somewhat horizontal,  this pattern is only consistent with one model, and I'll leave you to guess which one that is.

Of course I'm expecting that you will just keep modifying your dual earth theory.   Looking forward to the next incarnation.

why would the dual earth model require a flip at the equator? the northward magnetic pull acts through space, it still crosses the equator. similarly for the south pole.

i don't need to modify the theory, the increased distance from the pole explains observations.

Your explanation said the magnetic field is generated by the sun acting as a magnet  located between the two earths...   This was how you got the North and South Pole that the flat earth model lacked.. So the magnetic field lines in the dual earth model would be vertical through the two planes and so North would be straight up and South would be straight down,  Standing on the North side of the equator the compass would point upwards,  as you cross to the south side the needle would flip and point directly down. 

Maybe you could do a diagram showing how the magnetic field lines are in the dual earth model.

Quote from: JRoweSkeptic on April 26, 2015, 11:37:20 AM

Quote from: Rayzor on April 26, 2015, 09:24:34 AM

Ok,  let's  kill off this dual  earth model.   The magnetic field is not observed to do a flip at the equator.

The magnetic field of earth is at an angle to the surface,  depending on lattitude,  if you have two flat surfaces with the sun generating the magnetic field between them ( your diagram ) then the magnetic field lines will be at right angles to the surface on top and bottom earth.   Since we observe that the field lines are at angles varying smoothly with lattitude,   and generally somewhat horizontal,  this pattern is only consistent with one model, and I'll leave you to guess which one that is.

Of course I'm expecting that you will just keep modifying your dual earth theory.   Looking forward to the next incarnation.

why would the dual earth model require a flip at the equator? the northward magnetic pull acts through space, it still crosses the equator. similarly for the south pole.

i don't need to modify the theory, the increased distance from the pole explains observations.

Your explanation said the magnetic field is generated by the sun acting as a magnet  located between the two earths...   This was how you got the North and South Pole that the flat earth model lacked.. So the magnetic field lines in the dual earth model would be vertical through the two planes and so North would be straight up and South would be straight down,  Standing on the North side of the equator the compass would point upwards,  as you cross to the south side the needle would flip and point directly down. 

Maybe you could do a diagram showing how the magnetic field lines are in the dual earth model.

how many poles do magnets have again?
i fail to see what it is you're trying to achieve. the north pole is the north pole, the south pole is the south. why would the compass needle flip at the equator?

why would the dual earth model require a flip at the equator? the northward magnetic pull acts through space, it still crosses the equator. similarly for the south pole.

i don't need to modify the theory, the increased distance from the pole explains observations.

I'm starting to think you don't know what a magnetic field looks like.   Here I've superimposed the earth's magnetic field on the dual earth model.


That image is from here http://www.unc.edu/depts/oceanweb/turtles/geomag.html

The first thing to note is that on the spherical earth model the angle of the magnetic field lines to the surface varies with lattitude,  this is in fact what we observe in practice, you can do it yourself,  get a compass and you will see that the needle doesn't sit flat, it is at an angle which varies with lattitude.   At the equator the needle will be horizontal, and at the poles the needle will be vertical. 

In the dual earth model, the needle will always be vertical since the field lines are at right angles to the surface.   When you cross the equator, on the North side the needle will be pointing directly up, as you cross to the south side the needle will flip over and point directly down.   A 180 degree flip that is not observed to happen in practice. 

The flat earth single pole model doesn't work,   the dual flat earth dual pole model doesn't work either,  the concave earth model fails also.   The only one which correctly matches the observations is the spherical model.

The observed compass tilt caused by the earth's magnetic field eliminates the concave earth model.   For the following reason,   the tilt is observed to tilt down in the northern hemisphere, and tilt upwards in the souther hemisphere,  in a concave earth model the compass needle tilt would be the other way around.   Thus the earth is not concave, it is convex.

the first thing i would say is that if you correct your map so it is the same shape as the dual earth model (and so the shape of the world in reality), those magnetic lines would seem to match the lines of the aetheric whirlpools. that's an interesting observation, if not an argument.
my only question would be how exactly you determine that those lines represent the earth's magnetic field. typically, they are calculated by theory: that doesn't make them true in practise.

the first thing i would say is that if you correct your map so it is the same shape as the dual earth model (and so the shape of the world in reality), those magnetic lines would seem to match the lines of the aetheric whirlpools. that's an interesting observation, if not an argument.
my only question would be how exactly you determine that those lines represent the earth's magnetic field. typically, they are calculated by theory: that doesn't make them true in practise.

Magnetic field lines have been both observed directly by actually measuring them; this is pretty simple, and also historically by looking at the geology of earths crust.

Quote from: JRoweSkeptic on April 28, 2015, 04:47:39 AM

the first thing i would say is that if you correct your map so it is the same shape as the dual earth model (and so the shape of the world in reality), those magnetic lines would seem to match the lines of the aetheric whirlpools. that's an interesting observation, if not an argument.
my only question would be how exactly you determine that those lines represent the earth's magnetic field. typically, they are calculated by theory: that doesn't make them true in practise.

Magnetic field lines have been both observed directly by actually measuring them; this is pretty simple, and also historically by looking at the geology of earths crust.

those aren't the lines rayzor depicted in his most recent illustration.

Quote from: Mainframes on April 28, 2015, 05:08:02 AM

Quote from: JRoweSkeptic on April 28, 2015, 04:47:39 AM

the first thing i would say is that if you correct your map so it is the same shape as the dual earth model (and so the shape of the world in reality), those magnetic lines would seem to match the lines of the aetheric whirlpools. that's an interesting observation, if not an argument.
my only question would be how exactly you determine that those lines represent the earth's magnetic field. typically, they are calculated by theory: that doesn't make them true in practise.

Magnetic field lines have been both observed directly by actually measuring them; this is pretty simple, and also historically by looking at the geology of earths crust.

those aren't the lines rayzor depicted in his most recent illustration.

Yes they are. Quite clearly they are. That is esentially how that diagram came to be completed, due to measured evidence.

Quote from: JRoweSkeptic on April 28, 2015, 05:13:23 AM

Quote from: Mainframes on April 28, 2015, 05:08:02 AM

Quote from: JRoweSkeptic on April 28, 2015, 04:47:39 AM

the first thing i would say is that if you correct your map so it is the same shape as the dual earth model (and so the shape of the world in reality), those magnetic lines would seem to match the lines of the aetheric whirlpools. that's an interesting observation, if not an argument.
my only question would be how exactly you determine that those lines represent the earth's magnetic field. typically, they are calculated by theory: that doesn't make them true in practise.

Magnetic field lines have been both observed directly by actually measuring them; this is pretty simple, and also historically by looking at the geology of earths crust.

those aren't the lines rayzor depicted in his most recent illustration.

Yes they are. Quite clearly they are. That is esentially how that diagram came to be completed, due to measured evidence.

i suggest you actually look at the 'recent illustration' i was referring to and tell me how on earth lines that far from the earth's surface could be found by direct obseration and geology. i am still actually waiting for a description of how they're measured. you've just handwaved it and said they are. how?

Quote from: Mainframes on April 28, 2015, 05:21:20 AM

Quote from: JRoweSkeptic on April 28, 2015, 05:13:23 AM

Quote from: Mainframes on April 28, 2015, 05:08:02 AM

Quote from: JRoweSkeptic on April 28, 2015, 04:47:39 AM

the first thing i would say is that if you correct your map so it is the same shape as the dual earth model (and so the shape of the world in reality), those magnetic lines would seem to match the lines of the aetheric whirlpools. that's an interesting observation, if not an argument.
my only question would be how exactly you determine that those lines represent the earth's magnetic field. typically, they are calculated by theory: that doesn't make them true in practise.

Magnetic field lines have been both observed directly by actually measuring them; this is pretty simple, and also historically by looking at the geology of earths crust.

those aren't the lines rayzor depicted in his most recent illustration.

Yes they are. Quite clearly they are. That is esentially how that diagram came to be completed, due to measured evidence.

i suggest you actually look at the 'recent illustration' i was referring to and tell me how on earth lines that far from the earth's surface could be found by direct obseration and geology. i am still actually waiting for a description of how they're measured. you've just handwaved it and said they are. how?

The field line direction in the Earths crust is measured. From those measurements it is very easy to extrapolate a bar magnet diagram, as we have a very good understanding of how magnetic fields behave.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Earth%27s_magnetic_field#Measurement_and_analysis