The real conspiracy and how flat earthers are contributing to it

As I said, virtually everyone around me owns firearms.  And, guess what?  Nobody ever breaks into houses around here.  I have only locked my doors a couple of times since I moved here, and that was simply because I was leaving for an extended amount of time.  I don't even lock my car doors.  Do you think that people might just be too afraid to risk getting lead poisoning to do such things?

Also, if you took every firearm away from everyone in the US, people would just improvise firearms if they really want to kill someone and need a little reach.  Please, research Zip Guns. 

It's almost as if BiJane thinks that violence is only caused by firearms. 

Quote from: Vauxhall on April 21, 2015, 10:38:56 AM

Quote from: BiJane on April 21, 2015, 10:34:30 AM

Some people can be: not everyone. Some people do indeed just shoot each other

I thought you didn't like that image?

http://shootingtracker.com/wiki/Mass_Shootings_in_2014

92% of mass shootings sense 2009 have occurred in gun free zones and the other 8% usually ended in the shooter being shot.

Quote from: BiJane on April 21, 2015, 10:41:49 AM

Quote from: Vauxhall on April 21, 2015, 10:38:56 AM

Quote from: BiJane on April 21, 2015, 10:34:30 AM

Some people can be: not everyone. Some people do indeed just shoot each other

I thought you didn't like that image?

http://shootingtracker.com/wiki/Mass_Shootings_in_2014

92% of mass shootings sense 2009 have occurred in gun free zones and the other 8% usually ended in the shooter being shot.

If you weren't so biased, you would realize that gun free zones are dangerous. Mass shooters would be taken down if someone had a gun to use.

hoppy has a point.  It makes sense that someone who wants to kill a lot of people would go to a place where people are not allowed to be armed. 

I am not going to deny that school shootings do happen, and they are tragic. But, I think that maybe some school shootings may be avoided by giving the children guns to use for self-defense. Of course, the children would need to be trained on how to use guns as well, and I believe this training should be provided in the US state-wide by state government.

Obama has been using these shootings as leverage to enforce more gun control by scaring everyone and leaving out important information like that most shootings happen in gun free zones.

I am not going to deny that school shootings do happen, and they are tragic. But, I think that maybe some school shootings may be avoided by giving the children guns to use for self-defense. Of course, the children would need to be trained on how to use guns as well, and I believe this training should be provided in the US state-wide by state government.

No, many children can be quite unresponsive and unsafe with guns, especially elementary school kids.  I vote slowing the more responsible teachers to have guns.

Quote from: Vauxhall on April 21, 2015, 11:10:46 AM

I am not going to deny that school shootings do happen, and they are tragic. But, I think that maybe some school shootings may be avoided by giving the children guns to use for self-defense. Of course, the children would need to be trained on how to use guns as well, and I believe this training should be provided in the US state-wide by state government.

No, many children can be quite unresponsive and unsafe with guns, especially elementary school kids.  I vote slowing the more responsible teachers to have guns.

Citation needed. I think, with proper training, children can learn to use guns safely and effectively. There's no way to know unless we give them the chance. Children should be able to carry concealed firearms.

I am not going to deny that school shootings do happen, and they are tragic. But, I think that maybe some school shootings may be avoided by giving the children guns to use for self-defense. Of course, the children would need to be trained on how to use guns as well, and I believe this training should be provided in the US state-wide by state government.

Oh, how we've missed you! 

Quote from: mikeman7918 on April 21, 2015, 11:14:39 AM

Quote from: Vauxhall on April 21, 2015, 11:10:46 AM

I am not going to deny that school shootings do happen, and they are tragic. But, I think that maybe some school shootings may be avoided by giving the children guns to use for self-defense. Of course, the children would need to be trained on how to use guns as well, and I believe this training should be provided in the US state-wide by state government.

No, many children can be quite unresponsive and unsafe with guns, especially elementary school kids.  I vote slowing the more responsible teachers to have guns.

Citation needed. I think, with proper training, children can learn to use guns safely and effectively. There's no way to know unless we give them the chance. Children should be able to carry concealed firearms.

I don't think that should be allowed for the same reason I support only letting people have a drivers license until they are 16.  A school has many teachers and letting teachers Cary guns would be enough to scare away or stop a school shooter.

I don't think that should be allowed for the same reason I support only letting people have a drivers license until they are 16.  A school has many teachers and letting teachers Cary guns would be enough to scare away or stop a school shooter.

Except teachers work in high-stress environments which could easily lead to them using the firearms on the children. I don't think that's a good idea at all.

"In case of emergency unlock door"
The teachers who are given that key, would be able to grab a lightweight pistol. And, of course, it is solid metal. No glass to break for a student to get a hold of the gun, they would simply assume it's a drawer or something for a fire extinguisher.

"In case of emergency unlock door"
The teachers who are given that key, would be able to grab a lightweight pistol. And, of course, it is solid metal. No glass to break for a student to get a hold of the gun, they would simply assume it's a drawer or something for a fire extinguisher.

Not a good idea.  A mass murderer could also break into the container holding the gun and use it to extend their shooting spree.

Arming the children with guns is probably a better idea because they would be able to defend themselves immediately, and it would teach them basic gun safely at a young age. Everyone in the United States needs to know how to use a gun, and learning younger is always better. Schools should also have some sort of mandatory 'Gun Safety' course and 'Marksmanship Class' each school year, starting in Elementary School.

Except teachers work in high-stress environments which could easily lead to them using the firearms on the children. I don't think that's a good idea at all.

If a teacher were that crazy then they would have been fired a ling time ago.  Teachers don't just go from being nice one day to shooting their students the next.

Because mass murderers who are in a big hurry can smash steel?

Because mass murderers who are in a big hurry can smash steel?

Think about this for a moment. A school shooter will already have a gun. There are numerous guns that can shoot through steel. If the gunner was running out of rifle ammo then they could easily shoot through a steel container, open it, and then get a free gun to extend their spree.

Thank god you are not the one implementing these safety measures.

Quote from: Misero on April 21, 2015, 11:59:38 AM

"In case of emergency unlock door"
The teachers who are given that key, would be able to grab a lightweight pistol. And, of course, it is solid metal. No glass to break for a student to get a hold of the gun, they would simply assume it's a drawer or something for a fire extinguisher.

Not a good idea.  A mass murderer could also break into the container holding the gun and use it to extend their shooting spree.

Arming the children with guns is probably a better idea because they would be able to defend themselves immediately, and it would teach them basic gun safely at a young age. Everyone in the United States needs to know how to use a gun, and learning younger is always better. Schools should also have some sort of mandatory 'Gun Safety' course and 'Marksmanship Class' each school year, starting in Elementary School.

A shooter couldn't break into the gun safe because it's made of metal and it won't even be obvious what it is because it would look unsuspecting.  Learning how to use a gun is rather important in the U.S., but if you have any experience with little kids then you would know that they would treat them like toys.  Also, why is it that you think teachers can't be trusted with guns and yet students can?

Quote from: Misero on April 21, 2015, 12:06:51 PM

Because mass murderers who are in a big hurry can smash steel?

Think about this for a moment. A school shooter will already have a gun. There are numerous guns that can shoot through steel. If the gunner was running out of rifle ammo then they could easily shoot through a steel container, open it, and then get a free gun to extend their spree.

Thank god you are not the one implementing these safety measures.

If the shooter had enough time to empty their magazine then surely the teachers will have enough time to grab that gun.

Quote from: Vauxhall on April 21, 2015, 12:04:07 PM

Quote from: Misero on April 21, 2015, 11:59:38 AM

"In case of emergency unlock door"
The teachers who are given that key, would be able to grab a lightweight pistol. And, of course, it is solid metal. No glass to break for a student to get a hold of the gun, they would simply assume it's a drawer or something for a fire extinguisher.

Not a good idea.  A mass murderer could also break into the container holding the gun and use it to extend their shooting spree.

Arming the children with guns is probably a better idea because they would be able to defend themselves immediately, and it would teach them basic gun safely at a young age. Everyone in the United States needs to know how to use a gun, and learning younger is always better. Schools should also have some sort of mandatory 'Gun Safety' course and 'Marksmanship Class' each school year, starting in Elementary School.

A shooter couldn't break into the gun safe because it's made of metal and it won't even be obvious what it is because it would look unsuspecting.  Learning how to use a gun is rather important in the U.S., but if you have any experience with little kids then you would know that they would treat them like toys.  Also, why is it that you think teachers can't be trusted with guns and yet students can?

I guarantee you if you give children guns and a school shooter walks through their classroom door, that shooter will be shot several times before being able to harm them. I think the children will be more willing to use the guns than the teachers.

If the shooter had enough time to empty their magazine then surely the teachers will have enough time to grab that gun.

Not necessarily.

As I said, virtually everyone around me owns firearms.  And, guess what?  Nobody ever breaks into houses around here.  I have only locked my doors a couple of times since I moved here, and that was simply because I was leaving for an extended amount of time.  I don't even lock my car doors.  Do you think that people might just be too afraid to risk getting lead poisoning to do such things?

You do realize how poor an example anecdotal evidence is? Stats have already been provided by Mike, which actually do a very good job of defeating your argument.

Also, if you took every firearm away from everyone in the US, people would just improvise firearms if they really want to kill someone and need a little reach.  Please, research Zip Guns.

'Really want', you've hit the nail on the head. No one has ever proposed crimes are exclusively caused by guns: what guns do, is make it accessible.

most shootings happen in gun free zones.

And all shootings happen because the shooters had access to guns. Why make it easier for them?

Which situation would you prefer, two people with guns having it out, which would likely end in two fatalities, or someone who's far more likely to have a knife: short range, less often lethal, harder (psychologically) to use?

Got to love how Vauxhall thinks traumatizing a generation of children is a good idea. Adults can need therapy after killing someone. Kids, they'll be rather less prepared.

Children generally lack empathy on the level of adults, which is why they would be more willing than an adult to shoot at an attacker.

Quote from: mikeman7918 on April 21, 2015, 12:10:31 PM

Quote from: Vauxhall on April 21, 2015, 12:04:07 PM

Quote from: Misero on April 21, 2015, 11:59:38 AM

"In case of emergency unlock door"
The teachers who are given that key, would be able to grab a lightweight pistol. And, of course, it is solid metal. No glass to break for a student to get a hold of the gun, they would simply assume it's a drawer or something for a fire extinguisher.

Not a good idea.  A mass murderer could also break into the container holding the gun and use it to extend their shooting spree.

Arming the children with guns is probably a better idea because they would be able to defend themselves immediately, and it would teach them basic gun safely at a young age. Everyone in the United States needs to know how to use a gun, and learning younger is always better. Schools should also have some sort of mandatory 'Gun Safety' course and 'Marksmanship Class' each school year, starting in Elementary School.

A shooter couldn't break into the gun safe because it's made of metal and it won't even be obvious what it is because it would look unsuspecting.  Learning how to use a gun is rather important in the U.S., but if you have any experience with little kids then you would know that they would treat them like toys.  Also, why is it that you think teachers can't be trusted with guns and yet students can?

I guarantee you if you give children guns and a school shooter walks through their classroom door, that shooter will be shot several times before being able to harm them. I think the children will be more willing to use the guns than the teachers.

Quote from: mikeman7918 on April 21, 2015, 12:12:04 PM

If the shooter had enough time to empty their magazine then surely the teachers will have enough time to grab that gun.

Not necessarily.

What if the gun lockers were in the teachers' desks?  The teachers could have them ready within seconds of hearing that a shooter was in the school.  Also, do you know what shooting a man does to your concience?  I can't speak from experience here but they say that even if it's a killer that you killed you will still be eaten alive by the guilt and you will never be the same.  Do you want kids to have to go through that?

Children generally lack empathy on the level of adults

They don't lack empathy, they lack understanding. Most aren't entirely aware of what death is, hence why most people who had a pet as kids heard it went to some special home.
So, you've got three possibilities: one, they lack understanding of seriousness so much they'd shoot each other or themselves as a prank without realizing what it means. Two, they'd have the seriousness hammered in so hard they'd never pick up a gun even in a bad situation. Three, they'd have so much understanding they'd face the same trauma without the same abilities to cope.
Everything about a gun is upsetting. The sudden noise, the reaction when it hits... You don't need empathy to be terrified of them.

One of your more outlandish, and so amusing, trolls though, well done. You're still just behind JRowe though, fairies were a much better topic.

Also, do you know what shooting a man does to your concience?  I can't speak from experience here but they say that even if it's a killer that you killed you will still be eaten alive by the guilt and you will never be the same.  Do you want kids to have to go through that?

Do you want untrained, unprepared civilians and everyday homeowners and parents and students and... to go through that?

Quote from: Vauxhall on April 21, 2015, 12:17:32 PM

Children generally lack empathy on the level of adults

They don't lack empathy, they lack understanding. Most aren't entirely aware of what death is, hence why most people who had a pet as kids heard it went to some special home.
So, you've got three possibilities: one, they lack understanding of seriousness so much they'd shoot each other or themselves as a prank without realizing what it means. Two, they'd have the seriousness hammered in so hard they'd never pick up a gun even in a bad situation. Three, they'd have so much understanding they'd face the same trauma without the same abilities to cope.
Everything about a gun is upsetting. The sudden noise, the reaction when it hits... You don't need empathy to be terrified of them.

One of your more outlandish, and so amusing, trolls though, well done. You're still just behind JRowe though, fairies were a much better topic.

I didn't really read much of your post, but I read the first sentence since that seems to be your contention here and your only real coherent thought.

Almost every child I know would love to use a gun, and they clearly lack empathy on an adult level. I don't think you have  a degree in Child psychology, so I don't think you're really qualified to speak on this matter... but a lot of this information simply comes from wikipedia, which you obviously have not perused. I would suggest doing a little research on children and their mentality, because they do lack empathy. Children are like little psychopaths. They would love to shoot a guy, believe me. Every child I've known dreams of carrying and using a gun.

Rather than die and never feel that way?

Children generally lack empathy on the level of adults, which is why they would be more willing than an adult to shoot at an attacker.

I don't know anyone who would hesitate for long to shoot someone who you know might shoot you back as well as a few kids.  Also, the lack of empathy in many kids is another reason they shouldn't have guns because in events other then rare school shootings.

I loved my BB gun as a kid, but I always knew the danger of what exactly would happen if I used a real gun and did what I did with my BB gun. I was 8.

I loved my BB gun as a kid, but I always knew the danger of what exactly would happen if I used a real gun and did what I did with my BB gun. I was 8.

Knowing the danger has nothing to do with it. Children know that shooting someone is going to hurt them and/or kill them. They will not hesitate to do it, however, if someone is pointing a gun at them... and they are far less likely to feel as bad about it as adults would.