How do flat earthers explain satellite radio?

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Re: How do flat earthers explain satellite radio?
« Reply #60 on: March 22, 2015, 04:02:38 PM »
Satellite TV works strange in my opinion. The receiving dish has to be pointing almost exactly at a certain point in the sky, but yet the satellite has to transmit such a broad area to cover the entire country. I would think you could receive a good signal pointing simply in the vicinity of the satellite, but you can't. It works like a microwave link where you have to exactly aim the Rx and Tx antennas together. Just a thought.
You not understanding does not prove they do not work.  Look it up.

Re: How do flat earthers explain satellite radio?
« Reply #61 on: March 22, 2015, 04:04:56 PM »
The main service uses satellites.

Or, so you are lead to believe.

Why, jroa, would SiriumXM lie about using satellites? 

To cover the true shape of the Earth, and perpetuate the myth of sustained space orbit.

SiriusXM is a company that, like all companies, cares only about making as much money as possible.  How will they make more money by lying to their customers about non-existent satellites?
Sceptimatic is a proven liar - he claims to have authored several books but won't reveal their names.

Re: How do flat earthers explain satellite radio?
« Reply #62 on: March 22, 2015, 04:05:32 PM »
The main service uses satellites.

Or, so you are lead to believe.

Why, jroa, would SiriumXM lie about using satellites? 

To cover the true shape of the Earth, and perpetuate the myth of sustained space orbit. 

It seems thing are not high tech enough unless it uses a satellite to work. I have not really found anything that can't work just as well or better using an old fashion land based system. The big key is the antennas. The more you have the better it works, lord knows we have plenty of them in the U.S.
Receiving multi channel TV uses satellites.  Look at the angle of dishes.

Think about how live news tv is transmitter from war zones and other locations.  Vehicles are called sat trucks.

*

Yendor

  • 1676
Re: How do flat earthers explain satellite radio?
« Reply #63 on: March 22, 2015, 04:38:07 PM »
Satellite TV works strange in my opinion. The receiving dish has to be pointing almost exactly at a certain point in the sky, but yet the satellite has to transmit such a broad area to cover the entire country. I would think you could receive a good signal pointing simply in the vicinity of the satellite, but you can't. It works like a microwave link where you have to exactly aim the Rx and Tx antennas together. Just a thought.
You not understanding does not prove they do not work.  Look it up.

I understand how RF works. The E-field of a single transmitting antenna has to be wide to cover the entire U.S. That means receiving antennas should be able to receive a signal not necessary pointing at the satellite transmitting antenna. In fact, the receiving antenna could almost be an omni antenna not a directional antenna. It should be like A GPS receiver antenna. That is how it should be able to work. But it doesn't. It works different than my experience as an engineer, unless the TV signals are not coming from satellites.










"During times of universal deceit, telling the truth becomes a revolutionary act."
                              George Orwell

Re: How do flat earthers explain satellite radio?
« Reply #64 on: March 22, 2015, 04:44:58 PM »
Satellite TV works strange in my opinion. The receiving dish has to be pointing almost exactly at a certain point in the sky, but yet the satellite has to transmit such a broad area to cover the entire country. I would think you could receive a good signal pointing simply in the vicinity of the satellite, but you can't. It works like a microwave link where you have to exactly aim the Rx and Tx antennas together. Just a thought.
You not understanding does not prove they do not work.  Look it up.

I understand how RF works. The E-field of a single transmitting antenna has to be wide to cover the entire U.S. That means receiving antennas should be able to receive a signal not necessary pointing at the satellite transmitting antenna. In fact, the receiving antenna could almost be an omni antenna not a directional antenna. It should be like A GPS receiver antenna. That is how it should be able to work. But it doesn't. It works different than my experience as an engineer, unless the TV signals are not coming from satellites.
Low field strength requires highly directional, high gain, receiver dishes.  Basic stuff.  Look it up.

*

Yendor

  • 1676
Re: How do flat earthers explain satellite radio?
« Reply #65 on: March 22, 2015, 04:46:20 PM »
The main service uses satellites.


Or, so you are lead to believe.

Why, jroa, would SiriumXM lie about using satellites? 

To cover the true shape of the Earth, and perpetuate the myth of sustained space orbit. 

It seems thing are not high tech enough unless it uses a satellite to work. I have not really found anything that can't work just as well or better using an old fashion land based system. The big key is the antennas. The more you have the better it works, lord knows we have plenty of them in the U.S.
Receiving multi channel TV uses satellites.  Look at the angle of dishes.

Think about how live news tv is transmitter from war zones and other locations.  Vehicles are called sat trucks.

Have you ever heard of microwave links? They may be transmitting to a relay tower some place.
"During times of universal deceit, telling the truth becomes a revolutionary act."
                              George Orwell

?

BJ1234

  • 1931
Re: How do flat earthers explain satellite radio?
« Reply #66 on: March 22, 2015, 05:04:22 PM »
The main service uses satellites.


Or, so you are lead to believe.

Why, jroa, would SiriumXM lie about using satellites? 

To cover the true shape of the Earth, and perpetuate the myth of sustained space orbit. 

It seems thing are not high tech enough unless it uses a satellite to work. I have not really found anything that can't work just as well or better using an old fashion land based system. The big key is the antennas. The more you have the better it works, lord knows we have plenty of them in the U.S.
Receiving multi channel TV uses satellites.  Look at the angle of dishes.

Think about how live news tv is transmitter from war zones and other locations.  Vehicles are called sat trucks.

Have you ever heard of microwave links? They may be transmitting to a relay tower some place.

I live south of Chicago by about 20 miles.  Why would all the satellite dishes be pointed towards the south at a fairly steep angle.  If you are not familiar with the area, there is not much super high buildings or towers to the south of Chicago.  Also, back in the late 80's early 90's our family had a TV service that utilized a directional antenna that the signal came from the Sears Tower, wish I could remember the name so I could look it up.  The antenna pointed almost due north and was almost completely horizontal.

I guess my question would be, why would the directional dishes of satellite companies all point away from the highest structures around?  The tall buildings in Chicago all have radio and other antenna on them to increase the service area.  Makes no sense why the satallie companies wouldn't utilize the tall buildings that are available.

*

Yendor

  • 1676
Re: How do flat earthers explain satellite radio?
« Reply #67 on: March 22, 2015, 05:19:28 PM »
Satellite TV works strange in my opinion. The receiving dish has to be pointing almost exactly at a certain point in the sky, but yet the satellite has to transmit such a broad area to cover the entire country. I would think you could receive a good signal pointing simply in the vicinity of the satellite, but you can't. It works like a microwave link where you have to exactly aim the Rx and Tx antennas together. Just a thought.
You not understanding does not prove they do not work.  Look it up.

I understand how RF works. The E-field of a single transmitting antenna has to be wide to cover the entire U.S. That means receiving antennas should be able to receive a signal not necessary pointing at the satellite transmitting antenna. In fact, the receiving antenna could almost be an omni antenna not a directional antenna. It should be like A GPS receiver antenna. That is how it should be able to work. But it doesn't. It works different than my experience as an engineer, unless the TV signals are not coming from satellites.
Low field strength requires highly directional, high gain, receiver dishes.  Basic stuff.  Look it up.

Please don't keep saying look it up, I was an RF engineer for over 20 years. I know how RF works. An  antenna is made to transmit or receive certain directions with certain gain. The transmitting antenna on a  TV satellite has to be cut or made to transmit the energy field to cover the entire U.S., a very wide area. That means it is working like any antenna that is made to transmit most power in certain direction. The receiving antenna should not have to be pointing directly at the satellite. In fact the antenna could simply be an omni type antenna. You should not have to point a directional antenna at the satellite, simply near its direction. Because you do have to point the receiving antenna directly at it, probably means you are pointing at a antenna on a tower a few hundred miles away. Just my opinion.
"During times of universal deceit, telling the truth becomes a revolutionary act."
                              George Orwell

Re: How do flat earthers explain satellite radio?
« Reply #68 on: March 22, 2015, 05:26:41 PM »
Satellite TV works strange in my opinion. The receiving dish has to be pointing almost exactly at a certain point in the sky, but yet the satellite has to transmit such a broad area to cover the entire country. I would think you could receive a good signal pointing simply in the vicinity of the satellite, but you can't. It works like a microwave link where you have to exactly aim the Rx and Tx antennas together. Just a thought.
You not understanding does not prove they do not work.  Look it up.

I understand how RF works. The E-field of a single transmitting antenna has to be wide to cover the entire U.S. That means receiving antennas should be able to receive a signal not necessary pointing at the satellite transmitting antenna. In fact, the receiving antenna could almost be an omni antenna not a directional antenna. It should be like A GPS receiver antenna. That is how it should be able to work. But it doesn't. It works different than my experience as an engineer, unless the TV signals are not coming from satellites.
Low field strength requires highly directional, high gain, receiver dishes.  Basic stuff.  Look it up.

Please don't keep saying look it up, I was an RF engineer for over 20 years. I know how RF works. An  antenna is made to transmit or receive certain directions with certain gain. The transmitting antenna on a  TV satellite has to be cut or made to transmit the energy field to cover the entire U.S., a very wide area. That means it is working like any antenna that is made to transmit most power in certain direction. The receiving antenna should not have to be pointing directly at the satellite. In fact the antenna could simply be an omni type antenna. You should not have to point a directional antenna at the satellite, simply near its direction. Because you do have to point the receiving antenna directly at it, probably means you are pointing at a antenna on a tower a few hundred miles away. Just my opinion.

You worked as an RF engineer for over 20 years and yet you believe the Earth is flat?
Sceptimatic is a proven liar - he claims to have authored several books but won't reveal their names.

*

Yendor

  • 1676
Re: How do flat earthers explain satellite radio?
« Reply #69 on: March 22, 2015, 05:28:32 PM »
The main service uses satellites.


Or, so you are lead to believe.

Why, jroa, would SiriumXM lie about using satellites? 

To cover the true shape of the Earth, and perpetuate the myth of sustained space orbit. 

It seems thing are not high tech enough unless it uses a satellite to work. I have not really found anything that can't work just as well or better using an old fashion land based system. The big key is the antennas. The more you have the better it works, lord knows we have plenty of them in the U.S.
Receiving multi channel TV uses satellites.  Look at the angle of dishes.

Think about how live news tv is transmitter from war zones and other locations.  Vehicles are called sat trucks.

Have you ever heard of microwave links? They may be transmitting to a relay tower some place.

I live south of Chicago by about 20 miles.  Why would all the satellite dishes be pointed towards the south at a fairly steep angle.  If you are not familiar with the area, there is not much super high buildings or towers to the south of Chicago.  Also, back in the late 80's early 90's our family had a TV service that utilized a directional antenna that the signal came from the Sears Tower, wish I could remember the name so I could look it up.  The antenna pointed almost due north and was almost completely horizontal.

I guess my question would be, why would the directional dishes of satellite companies all point away from the highest structures around?  The tall buildings in Chicago all have radio and other antenna on them to increase the service area.  Makes no sense why the satallie companies wouldn't utilize the tall buildings that are available.

Because they want you to believe you are pointing at a satellite. Companies do not invest billions of dollars on a project the is not serviceable. Anything satellites can do can be done with Earth base systems.
"During times of universal deceit, telling the truth becomes a revolutionary act."
                              George Orwell

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kman

  • 990
  • Pastafarian
Re: How do flat earthers explain satellite radio?
« Reply #70 on: March 22, 2015, 05:40:40 PM »
They would have to reach nearly out of the atmosphere to get above all the hills, valleys, to still be coming in at a steep enough angle to be above trees in your local vicinity.  It has to come from an angle that is basically above you.   Even on a flat Earth model it would need to reach thousands of miles high.  Just much easier to have it in orbit.

Considering the middle of the U.S. is flat and there are mountain ranges precisely in the locations pointed out on the map, it's not that outrageous of an explanation. They could have one Super-duper top-o-the-line digital radio tower on top of the Rocky Mountains and another on the Appalachian Mountains.



There are places in the rockies and the appalacians where people can't get signal.
Quote from: Excelsior John
[USA TODAY and NPR] are probaley just a bunch of flippin wite sapremist websites you RASCIST
Quote from: modestman
i don't understand what you are saying=therfore you are liar

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Yendor

  • 1676
Re: How do flat earthers explain satellite radio?
« Reply #71 on: March 22, 2015, 05:45:18 PM »
Satellite TV works strange in my opinion. The receiving dish has to be pointing almost exactly at a certain point in the sky, but yet the satellite has to transmit such a broad area to cover the entire country. I would think you could receive a good signal pointing simply in the vicinity of the satellite, but you can't. It works like a microwave link where you have to exactly aim the Rx and Tx antennas together. Just a thought.
You not understanding does not prove they do not work.  Look it up.

I understand how RF works. The E-field of a single transmitting antenna has to be wide to cover the entire U.S. That means receiving antennas should be able to receive a signal not necessary pointing at the satellite transmitting antenna. In fact, the receiving antenna could almost be an omni antenna not a directional antenna. It should be like A GPS receiver antenna. That is how it should be able to work. But it doesn't. It works different than my experience as an engineer, unless the TV signals are not coming from satellites.
Low field strength requires highly directional, high gain, receiver dishes.  Basic stuff.  Look it up.

Please don't keep saying look it up, I was an RF engineer for over 20 years. I know how RF works. An  antenna is made to transmit or receive certain directions with certain gain. The transmitting antenna on a  TV satellite has to be cut or made to transmit the energy field to cover the entire U.S., a very wide area. That means it is working like any antenna that is made to transmit most power in certain direction. The receiving antenna should not have to be pointing directly at the satellite. In fact the antenna could simply be an omni type antenna. You should not have to point a directional antenna at the satellite, simply near its direction. Because you do have to point the receiving antenna directly at it, probably means you are pointing at a antenna on a tower a few hundred miles away. Just my opinion.

You worked as an RF engineer for over 20 years and yet you believe the Earth is flat?

I didn't say the Earth is flat, I don't know what it is. I've never seen a picture of it until NASA came along. And yes I've even designed microwave filters, coaxial switches, PIN and MMIC microwave , switches what was suppose to go on satellites.  Along with uplink and downlink communication systems for UAVS, (Drones) and plent of other things.
I just took for granted what I was working on was for satellites, after joining this site and started to really think about everything I've seen for the past 65 years raises a lot of questions in my mind. Everyone on this site who thinks the Earth is round should really think about it for real and not just say those who think other wise is crazy.
"During times of universal deceit, telling the truth becomes a revolutionary act."
                              George Orwell

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Mikey T.

  • 2399
Re: How do flat earthers explain satellite radio?
« Reply #72 on: March 22, 2015, 06:12:50 PM »
Try to think of the satellite as the focal point of a cone of signal coming down.  The signal is still travelling in a straight line to the receiver.  Just because the beam has a wide dispersal to cover the entire spot beam area doesn't mean that the receiver antenna can be in the general direction.  Actually you can only be out of alignment only a couple of degrees on the receiver dish before it loses signal.  The reason behind this is the shape of the dish, since the reflector is designed to concentrate the bounced signal to the focal point on the LNB.  If the reflector isn't catching as much signal as possible, there isn't enough signal strength to read the data from it. 



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BJ1234

  • 1931
Re: How do flat earthers explain satellite radio?
« Reply #73 on: March 23, 2015, 07:12:36 AM »
The main service uses satellites.


Or, so you are lead to believe.

Why, jroa, would SiriumXM lie about using satellites? 

To cover the true shape of the Earth, and perpetuate the myth of sustained space orbit. 

It seems thing are not high tech enough unless it uses a satellite to work. I have not really found anything that can't work just as well or better using an old fashion land based system. The big key is the antennas. The more you have the better it works, lord knows we have plenty of them in the U.S.
Receiving multi channel TV uses satellites.  Look at the angle of dishes.

Think about how live news tv is transmitter from war zones and other locations.  Vehicles are called sat trucks.

Have you ever heard of microwave links? They may be transmitting to a relay tower some place.

I live south of Chicago by about 20 miles.  Why would all the satellite dishes be pointed towards the south at a fairly steep angle.  If you are not familiar with the area, there is not much super high buildings or towers to the south of Chicago.  Also, back in the late 80's early 90's our family had a TV service that utilized a directional antenna that the signal came from the Sears Tower, wish I could remember the name so I could look it up.  The antenna pointed almost due north and was almost completely horizontal.

I guess my question would be, why would the directional dishes of satellite companies all point away from the highest structures around?  The tall buildings in Chicago all have radio and other antenna on them to increase the service area.  Makes no sense why the satallie companies wouldn't utilize the tall buildings that are available.

Because they want you to believe you are pointing at a satellite. Companies do not invest billions of dollars on a project the is not serviceable. Anything satellites can do can be done with Earth base systems.
But there are no buildings or terrestrial antennas tall enough in the path of the dishes.
And actually, companies DO spend billions on projects that are not servcable.  It is called Research and Development.

Also, by your argument, anything cars can do can be done by a man powered system.  Therefore cars don't exist.   ::)

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Yendor

  • 1676
Re: How do flat earthers explain satellite radio?
« Reply #74 on: March 23, 2015, 08:03:48 AM »
The main service uses satellites.


Or, so you are lead to believe.

Why, jroa, would SiriumXM lie about using satellites? 

To cover the true shape of the Earth, and perpetuate the myth of sustained space orbit. 

It seems thing are not high tech enough unless it uses a satellite to work. I have not really found anything that can't work just as well or better using an old fashion land based system. The big key is the antennas. The more you have the better it works, lord knows we have plenty of them in the U.S.
Receiving multi channel TV uses satellites.  Look at the angle of dishes.

Think about how live news tv is transmitter from war zones and other locations.  Vehicles are called sat trucks.

Have you ever heard of microwave links? They may be transmitting to a relay tower some place.

I live south of Chicago by about 20 miles.  Why would all the satellite dishes be pointed towards the south at a fairly steep angle.  If you are not familiar with the area, there is not much super high buildings or towers to the south of Chicago.  Also, back in the late 80's early 90's our family had a TV service that utilized a directional antenna that the signal came from the Sears Tower, wish I could remember the name so I could look it up.  The antenna pointed almost due north and was almost completely horizontal.

I guess my question would be, why would the directional dishes of satellite companies all point away from the highest structures around?  The tall buildings in Chicago all have radio and other antenna on them to increase the service area.  Makes no sense why the satallie companies wouldn't utilize the tall buildings that are available.

Because they want you to believe you are pointing at a satellite. Companies do not invest billions of dollars on a project the is not serviceable. Anything satellites can do can be done with Earth base systems.
But there are no buildings or terrestrial antennas tall enough in the path of the dishes.
And actually, companies DO spend billions on projects that are not servcable.  It is called Research and Development.

Also, by your argument, anything cars can do can be done by a man powered system.  Therefore cars don't exist.   ::)

You lost me about cars. Of course I've seen cars.I said, anything done by satellites can be done by Earth based systems. I just don't see why we really need them.
"During times of universal deceit, telling the truth becomes a revolutionary act."
                              George Orwell

Re: How do flat earthers explain satellite radio?
« Reply #75 on: March 23, 2015, 09:02:19 AM »
The main service uses satellites.


Or, so you are lead to believe.

Why, jroa, would SiriumXM lie about using satellites? 

To cover the true shape of the Earth, and perpetuate the myth of sustained space orbit. 

It seems thing are not high tech enough unless it uses a satellite to work. I have not really found anything that can't work just as well or better using an old fashion land based system. The big key is the antennas. The more you have the better it works, lord knows we have plenty of them in the U.S.
Receiving multi channel TV uses satellites.  Look at the angle of dishes.

Think about how live news tv is transmitter from war zones and other locations.  Vehicles are called sat trucks.

Have you ever heard of microwave links? They may be transmitting to a relay tower some place.

I live south of Chicago by about 20 miles.  Why would all the satellite dishes be pointed towards the south at a fairly steep angle.  If you are not familiar with the area, there is not much super high buildings or towers to the south of Chicago.  Also, back in the late 80's early 90's our family had a TV service that utilized a directional antenna that the signal came from the Sears Tower, wish I could remember the name so I could look it up.  The antenna pointed almost due north and was almost completely horizontal.

I guess my question would be, why would the directional dishes of satellite companies all point away from the highest structures around?  The tall buildings in Chicago all have radio and other antenna on them to increase the service area.  Makes no sense why the satallie companies wouldn't utilize the tall buildings that are available.

Because they want you to believe you are pointing at a satellite. Companies do not invest billions of dollars on a project the is not serviceable. Anything satellites can do can be done with Earth base systems.
But there are no buildings or terrestrial antennas tall enough in the path of the dishes.
And actually, companies DO spend billions on projects that are not servcable.  It is called Research and Development.

Also, by your argument, anything cars can do can be done by a man powered system.  Therefore cars don't exist.   ::)

You lost me about cars. Of course I've seen cars.I said, anything done by satellites can be done by Earth based systems. I just don't see why we really need them.
You may not, many others do.  Multi-channel HD TV to complete countries?  World-wide navigation?

*

Yendor

  • 1676
Re: How do flat earthers explain satellite radio?
« Reply #76 on: March 23, 2015, 09:37:27 AM »
The main service uses satellites.


Or, so you are lead to believe.

Why, jroa, would SiriumXM lie about using satellites? 

To cover the true shape of the Earth, and perpetuate the myth of sustained space orbit. 

It seems thing are not high tech enough unless it uses a satellite to work. I have not really found anything that can't work just as well or better using an old fashion land based system. The big key is the antennas. The more you have the better it works, lord knows we have plenty of them in the U.S.
Receiving multi channel TV uses satellites.  Look at the angle of dishes.

Think about how live news tv is transmitter from war zones and other locations.  Vehicles are called sat trucks.

Have you ever heard of microwave links? They may be transmitting to a relay tower some place.

I live south of Chicago by about 20 miles.  Why would all the satellite dishes be pointed towards the south at a fairly steep angle.  If you are not familiar with the area, there is not much super high buildings or towers to the south of Chicago.  Also, back in the late 80's early 90's our family had a TV service that utilized a directional antenna that the signal came from the Sears Tower, wish I could remember the name so I could look it up.  The antenna pointed almost due north and was almost completely horizontal.

I guess my question would be, why would the directional dishes of satellite companies all point away from the highest structures around?  The tall buildings in Chicago all have radio and other antenna on them to increase the service area.  Makes no sense why the satallie companies wouldn't utilize the tall buildings that are available.

Because they want you to believe you are pointing at a satellite. Companies do not invest billions of dollars on a project the is not serviceable. Anything satellites can do can be done with Earth base systems.
But there are no buildings or terrestrial antennas tall enough in the path of the dishes.
And actually, companies DO spend billions on projects that are not servcable.  It is called Research and Development.

Also, by your argument, anything cars can do can be done by a man powered system.  Therefore cars don't exist.   ::)

You lost me about cars. Of course I've seen cars.I said, anything done by satellites can be done by Earth based systems. I just don't see why we really need them.
You may not, many others do.  Multi-channel HD TV to complete countries?  World-wide navigation?

Have you wondered how they can do localized programming to just that particular area? They only have a certain amount of transponders per satellite.
"During times of universal deceit, telling the truth becomes a revolutionary act."
                              George Orwell

*

iWitness

  • 1173
  • If the earth is round then what is your problem?
Re: How do flat earthers explain satellite radio?
« Reply #77 on: March 23, 2015, 10:33:35 AM »
They also use repeaters on cell towers.
Proof please. 

http://4wheeldrive.about.com/od/autoparts4x4accessories/a/satelliteradio_5.htm

"Both XM and Sirius use a network of land repeaters (usually cell phone towers) to enhance reception in urban locations and/or locations with tall buildings"

"Satellite radio broadcasts are not subject to the same FCC rules as regular radio broadcasts are."

How convenient, if they lie about using Satellites they can bypass a bunch of laws and restrictions.
Disclaimer: I am confused. Everything I say is speculative and not admissible in a court of law; however, I am neither insane nor a threat to myself or others. I am simply curious about everything in life and enjoy talking about crazy shit. Oh, & btw I like turtles.

*

Mikey T.

  • 2399
Re: How do flat earthers explain satellite radio?
« Reply #78 on: March 23, 2015, 10:45:40 AM »
The main service uses satellites.


Or, so you are lead to believe.

Why, jroa, would SiriumXM lie about using satellites? 

To cover the true shape of the Earth, and perpetuate the myth of sustained space orbit. 

It seems thing are not high tech enough unless it uses a satellite to work. I have not really found anything that can't work just as well or better using an old fashion land based system. The big key is the antennas. The more you have the better it works, lord knows we have plenty of them in the U.S.
Receiving multi channel TV uses satellites.  Look at the angle of dishes.

Think about how live news tv is transmitter from war zones and other locations.  Vehicles are called sat trucks.

Have you ever heard of microwave links? They may be transmitting to a relay tower some place.

I live south of Chicago by about 20 miles.  Why would all the satellite dishes be pointed towards the south at a fairly steep angle.  If you are not familiar with the area, there is not much super high buildings or towers to the south of Chicago.  Also, back in the late 80's early 90's our family had a TV service that utilized a directional antenna that the signal came from the Sears Tower, wish I could remember the name so I could look it up.  The antenna pointed almost due north and was almost completely horizontal.

I guess my question would be, why would the directional dishes of satellite companies all point away from the highest structures around?  The tall buildings in Chicago all have radio and other antenna on them to increase the service area.  Makes no sense why the satallie companies wouldn't utilize the tall buildings that are available.

Because they want you to believe you are pointing at a satellite. Companies do not invest billions of dollars on a project the is not serviceable. Anything satellites can do can be done with Earth base systems.
But there are no buildings or terrestrial antennas tall enough in the path of the dishes.
And actually, companies DO spend billions on projects that are not servcable.  It is called Research and Development.

Also, by your argument, anything cars can do can be done by a man powered system.  Therefore cars don't exist.   ::)

You lost me about cars. Of course I've seen cars.I said, anything done by satellites can be done by Earth based systems. I just don't see why we really need them.
You may not, many others do.  Multi-channel HD TV to complete countries?  World-wide navigation?

Have you wondered how they can do localized programming to just that particular area? They only have a certain amount of transponders per satellite.
Multiple satellites in the same orbital positions actually, narrower spot beams for locals.  And no you cannot do everything with terrestrial based systems that you can with satellite based simply because of the nature of microwave signals.  LOS (line of sight) if you were an rf engineer as you claimed you would understand the concept of obstructions to that type of signal.  There actually were and probably are some microwave terrestrial systems for TV.  The required you to put a directional antenna in a tree of on a tower higher than the local tree line and then it was only used for local areas(basically withing 75 mile diameter depending on terrain, height of broadcast tower etc.)  Those had major issues with tind and the tree swaying and proved to have more problems than it was worth and most if not all of those companies folded. 
Satellite TV antenna are not omni-directional like the old VHF and UHF TV types.  Well they weren't really omni-directional either really to get the most channels you had to have a rotor and a very high antenna so you could turn the antenna towards the broadcast towers.  I could put your DirecTV or Dishnet antenna in a hole as long as it had the right opening towards the Satellite orbital position.  The width of the frequency wave, or the period of the wave if it works better for you, of the microwave band used for most satellite TV signals (usually Ku or Ka band) is about as wide as a normal raindrop.  This is why you lose signal due to heavy rain, and if your installer was any good he could zero in on the best signal therefore maximizing the bounce off of the reflector with the most power and that would cut down those instances quite a lot. 
If you have a Sat antenna, go out to it and turn it about 3 degrees to the left or right and see what happens to your signal.  Mark the positions first, don't get up on your roof if its up there, and take a 7/16, 3/8, or 1/2 inch wrench with you to loosen the collar bolts.  Try not to mess with the elevation as it is harder to set back. 
You can block off the left, right, and bottom of the reflector and it will still work (as long as you don't get in front of it). 

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Mikey T.

  • 2399
Re: How do flat earthers explain satellite radio?
« Reply #79 on: March 23, 2015, 10:54:52 AM »
They also use repeaters on cell towers.
Proof please. 

http://4wheeldrive.about.com/od/autoparts4x4accessories/a/satelliteradio_5.htm

"Both XM and Sirius use a network of land repeaters (usually cell phone towers) to enhance reception in urban locations and/or locations with tall buildings"

"Satellite radio broadcasts are not subject to the same FCC rules as regular radio broadcasts are."

How convenient, if they lie about using Satellites they can bypass a bunch of laws and restrictions.

Just because they are not subject to the same rules, does not mean they aren't subject to rules and laws.  My vehicle isn't subject to the same rules and laws that my Fathers lawn equipment is, but that doesn't mean it is free from regulations.  Actually Satellite broadcasters have more regulation than your standard local broadcasting towers and Cable companies do, thanks to lobbyists for the cable companies.  Have you ever seen a cable company lose rights to broadcast locals networks?  I bet you've heard about satellite broadcasters losing that due to contract negotiations.  That is because they have to buy the rights every few years to rebroadcast the locals to an area.  They can't broadcast Baltimore locals to Cleveland, even though you would probably be able to pick it up, because of the regulations put in place about local markets.

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Yendor

  • 1676
Re: How do flat earthers explain satellite radio?
« Reply #80 on: March 23, 2015, 12:30:16 PM »
The main service uses satellites.


Or, so you are lead to believe.

Why, jroa, would SiriumXM lie about using satellites? 

To cover the true shape of the Earth, and perpetuate the myth of sustained space orbit. 

It seems thing are not high tech enough unless it uses a satellite to work. I have not really found anything that can't work just as well or better using an old fashion land based system. The big key is the antennas. The more you have the better it works, lord knows we have plenty of them in the U.S.
Receiving multi channel TV uses satellites.  Look at the angle of dishes.

Think about how live news tv is transmitter from war zones and other locations.  Vehicles are called sat trucks.

Have you ever heard of microwave links? They may be transmitting to a relay tower some place.

I live south of Chicago by about 20 miles.  Why would all the satellite dishes be pointed towards the south at a fairly steep angle.  If you are not familiar with the area, there is not much super high buildings or towers to the south of Chicago.  Also, back in the late 80's early 90's our family had a TV service that utilized a directional antenna that the signal came from the Sears Tower, wish I could remember the name so I could look it up.  The antenna pointed almost due north and was almost completely horizontal.

I guess my question would be, why would the directional dishes of satellite companies all point away from the highest structures around?  The tall buildings in Chicago all have radio and other antenna on them to increase the service area.  Makes no sense why the satallie companies wouldn't utilize the tall buildings that are available.

Because they want you to believe you are pointing at a satellite. Companies do not invest billions of dollars on a project the is not serviceable. Anything satellites can do can be done with Earth base systems.
But there are no buildings or terrestrial antennas tall enough in the path of the dishes.
And actually, companies DO spend billions on projects that are not servcable.  It is called Research and Development.

Also, by your argument, anything cars can do can be done by a man powered system.  Therefore cars don't exist.   ::)

You lost me about cars. Of course I've seen cars.I said, anything done by satellites can be done by Earth based systems. I just don't see why we really need them.
You may not, many others do.  Multi-channel HD TV to complete countries?  World-wide navigation?

Have you wondered how they can do localized programming to just that particular area? They only have a certain amount of transponders per satellite.
Multiple satellites in the same orbital positions actually, narrower spot beams for locals.  And no you cannot do everything with terrestrial based systems that you can with satellite based simply because of the nature of microwave signals.  LOS (line of sight) if you were an rf engineer as you claimed you would understand the concept of obstructions to that type of signal.  There actually were and probably are some microwave terrestrial systems for TV.  The required you to put a directional antenna in a tree of on a tower higher than the local tree line and then it was only used for local areas(basically withing 75 mile diameter depending on terrain, height of broadcast tower etc.)  Those had major issues with tind and the tree swaying and proved to have more problems than it was worth and most if not all of those companies folded. 
Satellite TV antenna are not omni-directional like the old VHF and UHF TV types.  Well they weren't really omni-directional either really to get the most channels you had to have a rotor and a very high antenna so you could turn the antenna towards the broadcast towers.  I could put your DirecTV or Dishnet antenna in a hole as long as it had the right opening towards the Satellite orbital position.  The width of the frequency wave, or the period of the wave if it works better for you, of the microwave band used for most satellite TV signals (usually Ku or Ka band) is about as wide as a normal raindrop.  This is why you lose signal due to heavy rain, and if your installer was any good he could zero in on the best signal therefore maximizing the bounce off of the reflector with the most power and that would cut down those instances quite a lot. 
If you have a Sat antenna, go out to it and turn it about 3 degrees to the left or right and see what happens to your signal.  Mark the positions first, don't get up on your roof if its up there, and take a 7/16, 3/8, or 1/2 inch wrench with you to loosen the collar bolts.  Try not to mess with the elevation as it is harder to set back. 
You can block off the left, right, and bottom of the reflector and it will still work (as long as you don't get in front of it). 

Everything you just said is true. But it still does not mean I can't have a microwave dish antenna pointing towards another dish antenna located on a tower in Baltimore from where I live and receive perfect TV signals. No satellite has to be involved. I'm not saying satellites can't or aren't used, I'm simply saying they are not absolutely necessary. Explain, (with a few words), why I can't.
"During times of universal deceit, telling the truth becomes a revolutionary act."
                              George Orwell

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Mikey T.

  • 2399
Re: How do flat earthers explain satellite radio?
« Reply #81 on: March 23, 2015, 12:39:54 PM »
You actually could do that, if you have no obstructions in the path between the transmitter and the receiver (for this type of signal).  The part where the satellites come in to being a much better way of doing this is to have much more options of receiver location, since they only need a view of the sky, thus also being able to reach a much wider customer base.  With a round Earth you have to take into account the curvature of the Earth when dealing with LOS signals too.  So for a spherical Earth, the best way by far to broadcast a high frequency signal to the most people would be from orbit. 
If you are on a ranch, in say West Texas, and the nearest city with broadcast capabilities to you is 250 miles away, you would have a problem getting a tower tall enough to reach that far.  With a satellite in orbit, you can use this little dish mounted on a pole in your backyard that's basically 5 ft tall, surrounded by 40 ft tall trees, as long as you have a clear enough view over those trees to the orbital location.

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Yendor

  • 1676
Re: How do flat earthers explain satellite radio?
« Reply #82 on: March 23, 2015, 01:29:49 PM »
You actually could do that, if you have no obstructions in the path between the transmitter and the receiver (for this type of signal).  The part where the satellites come in to being a much better way of doing this is to have much more options of receiver location, since they only need a view of the sky, thus also being able to reach a much wider customer base.  With a round Earth you have to take into account the curvature of the Earth when dealing with LOS signals too.  So for a spherical Earth, the best way by far to broadcast a high frequency signal to the most people would be from orbit. 
If you are on a ranch, in say West Texas, and the nearest city with broadcast capabilities to you is 250 miles away, you would have a problem getting a tower tall enough to reach that far.  With a satellite in orbit, you can use this little dish mounted on a pole in your backyard that's basically 5 ft tall, surrounded by 40 ft tall trees, as long as you have a clear enough view over those trees to the orbital location.

Okay. I had to point my old dish 38 degree elevation. It was just barely over the horizon, in fact it actually pointed through the trees. The Azimuth was 232 degrees almost directly SW. I received great TV signals.
It is hard for me to believe a satellite that is transmitting with 50 Watts of rf power into a directional antenna that has an E-field foot print wide enough to cover the entire U.S., (wider the foot print weaker the concentrated signal), and give me such great TV reception. Remember, The satellite has to transmit at a low horizontal angle through thousands of miles of Earths atmosphere, because it is parked over the equator. It all leads me to believe the signal is locally originated and told it is from a satellite.
"During times of universal deceit, telling the truth becomes a revolutionary act."
                              George Orwell

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Mikey T.

  • 2399
Re: How do flat earthers explain satellite radio?
« Reply #83 on: March 23, 2015, 01:39:37 PM »
ok 38 degrees elevation, on the sat dish itself.  You must be fairly north in the states.  Also were you looking down the LNB arm to see what it was pointing at or from the angle of the reflector where it would bounce the signal from.  Its actually about 20 or so degrees higher than the dish shows since that is a measurement for the LNB arm.  Down here we set the dish at around 45 to 50.  If you have a smartphone there are free satfinder apps that will let you see a representation of the Sat through your camera so you can determine if you have LOS.  It uses your GPS, internal compass, and downloads the location to look from your location.  I am still not sure why they use the angle of the LNB arm for setting the elevation instead of the signal source but hey.  Also a digital signal is either crystal clear or not there, so unless you have rain fade (pixelation) then you have enough signal to build the picture and sound from the data. 
Try the satfinder app, its pretty cool.

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Yendor

  • 1676
Re: How do flat earthers explain satellite radio?
« Reply #84 on: March 23, 2015, 03:15:51 PM »
ok 38 degrees elevation, on the sat dish itself.  You must be fairly north in the states.  Also were you looking down the LNB arm to see what it was pointing at or from the angle of the reflector where it would bounce the signal from.  Its actually about 20 or so degrees higher than the dish shows since that is a measurement for the LNB arm.  Down here we set the dish at around 45 to 50.  If you have a smartphone there are free satfinder apps that will let you see a representation of the Sat through your camera so you can determine if you have LOS.  It uses your GPS, internal compass, and downloads the location to look from your location.  I am still not sure why they use the angle of the LNB arm for setting the elevation instead of the signal source but hey.  Also a digital signal is either crystal clear or not there, so unless you have rain fade (pixelation) then you have enough signal to build the picture and sound from the data. 
Try the satfinder app, its pretty cool.

I've not seen the apps you speak of. I no longer have satellite TV, cable now. So, I guess you've never questioned the validity of satellite TV and just accept what they tell you? I never did either. I've never calculated the power requirements, I just know it takes a lot of rf energy to transmit a signal through the atmosphere and the ionosphere will reflect signals in the microwave region given a wide transmission angle, thousands of miles and I find it hard to believe 25 Watts or so can do it. Maybe I'm wrong.


"During times of universal deceit, telling the truth becomes a revolutionary act."
                              George Orwell

*

sokarul

  • 16105
  • Discount Chemist
Re: How do flat earthers explain satellite radio?
« Reply #85 on: March 23, 2015, 03:16:41 PM »
Just a reminder, satellite dishes on houses are receiving a signal at a greater angle than what it looks like.
Sokarul

ANNIHILATOR OF  SHIFTER

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Mikey T.

  • 2399
Re: How do flat earthers explain satellite radio?
« Reply #86 on: March 23, 2015, 03:49:40 PM »
ok 38 degrees elevation, on the sat dish itself.  You must be fairly north in the states.  Also were you looking down the LNB arm to see what it was pointing at or from the angle of the reflector where it would bounce the signal from.  Its actually about 20 or so degrees higher than the dish shows since that is a measurement for the LNB arm.  Down here we set the dish at around 45 to 50.  If you have a smartphone there are free satfinder apps that will let you see a representation of the Sat through your camera so you can determine if you have LOS.  It uses your GPS, internal compass, and downloads the location to look from your location.  I am still not sure why they use the angle of the LNB arm for setting the elevation instead of the signal source but hey.  Also a digital signal is either crystal clear or not there, so unless you have rain fade (pixelation) then you have enough signal to build the picture and sound from the data. 
Try the satfinder app, its pretty cool.

I've not seen the apps you speak of. I no longer have satellite TV, cable now. So, I guess you've never questioned the validity of satellite TV and just accept what they tell you? I never did either. I've never calculated the power requirements, I just know it takes a lot of rf energy to transmit a signal through the atmosphere and the ionosphere will reflect signals in the microwave region given a wide transmission angle, thousands of miles and I find it hard to believe 25 Watts or so can do it. Maybe I'm wrong.

Actually I am very well versed in the workings of satellite TV.  I installed the things for DirecTV and Dishnetwork for about  4 years before I became a regional trainer for new installers, teaching the SBCA certification testing for it, then went back to install part time while I was in school getting my computer engineering and electronics engineering degrees.  I have traveled around the southeast region of the United States doing training and troubleshooting problematic systems.  It has been a few years since I trained the SBCA to installers, I will look through my stuff and see if I can get you the reported signal strengths.  I can probably get my hands on a good meter again and do the calculations myself to give you the power at the receiving end too.  It will just take me some doing to get in touch with a couple of my old students and see if they are still installing and if any are in my area.  I think the last time I taught a class in the Baton Rouge area was in 2008 though. 
I never accepted "what they told me".  I prided myself in being able to make a Satellite dish disappear on someones property.  This meant having to know a pretty good deal about the signal and its origin.  I also installed a ton of internet satellite dishes and actually started my own company for a short time, but when I found out how the customer service and billing options were for my customers, I refused to continue.  I had spent hours going back and retuning a dish that didn't need it just because Hughesnet decided that my customer had went over his/her limit and either throttled them or cut them off without any warning, then to hear their stories of how customer service treated them, I just felt like I didn't want any part of it. 
Actually I think that the frequency used (around 12.7 GHz for Ku band and 27 to 40 GHz for Ka band) is particularly resistant to ionosphere, but don't take my word for it (it has been a little while since I dealt with it in serious terms)
Yes i agree with you, if the source signal is only 25 watts, it would have issues getting to its location.

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Vauxhall

  • 5914
  • dark matter does not exist
Re: How do flat earthers explain satellite radio?
« Reply #87 on: March 23, 2015, 03:54:51 PM »
I don't get all this debate about satellites. Stratellites exists and they are responsible for anything satellite based.
Read the FAQS.

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Yendor

  • 1676
Re: How do flat earthers explain satellite radio?
« Reply #88 on: March 23, 2015, 04:14:15 PM »
ok 38 degrees elevation, on the sat dish itself.  You must be fairly north in the states.  Also were you looking down the LNB arm to see what it was pointing at or from the angle of the reflector where it would bounce the signal from.  Its actually about 20 or so degrees higher than the dish shows since that is a measurement for the LNB arm.  Down here we set the dish at around 45 to 50.  If you have a smartphone there are free satfinder apps that will let you see a representation of the Sat through your camera so you can determine if you have LOS.  It uses your GPS, internal compass, and downloads the location to look from your location.  I am still not sure why they use the angle of the LNB arm for setting the elevation instead of the signal source but hey.  Also a digital signal is either crystal clear or not there, so unless you have rain fade (pixelation) then you have enough signal to build the picture and sound from the data. 
Try the satfinder app, its pretty cool.

I've not seen the apps you speak of. I no longer have satellite TV, cable now. So, I guess you've never questioned the validity of satellite TV and just accept what they tell you? I never did either. I've never calculated the power requirements, I just know it takes a lot of rf energy to transmit a signal through the atmosphere and the ionosphere will reflect signals in the microwave region given a wide transmission angle, thousands of miles and I find it hard to believe 25 Watts or so can do it. Maybe I'm wrong.

Actually I am very well versed in the workings of satellite TV.  I installed the things for DirecTV and Dishnetwork for about  4 years before I became a regional trainer for new installers, teaching the SBCA certification testing for it, then went back to install part time while I was in school getting my computer engineering and electronics engineering degrees.  I have traveled around the southeast region of the United States doing training and troubleshooting problematic systems.  It has been a few years since I trained the SBCA to installers, I will look through my stuff and see if I can get you the reported signal strengths.  I can probably get my hands on a good meter again and do the calculations myself to give you the power at the receiving end too.  It will just take me some doing to get in touch with a couple of my old students and see if they are still installing and if any are in my area.  I think the last time I taught a class in the Baton Rouge area was in 2008 though. 
I never accepted "what they told me".  I prided myself in being able to make a Satellite dish disappear on someones property.  This meant having to know a pretty good deal about the signal and its origin.  I also installed a ton of internet satellite dishes and actually started my own company for a short time, but when I found out how the customer service and billing options were for my customers, I refused to continue.  I had spent hours going back and retuning a dish that didn't need it just because Hughesnet decided that my customer had went over his/her limit and either throttled them or cut them off without any warning, then to hear their stories of how customer service treated them, I just felt like I didn't want any part of it. 
Actually I think that the frequency used (around 12.7 GHz for Ku band and 27 to 40 GHz for Ka band) is particularly resistant to ionosphere, but don't take my word for it (it has been a little while since I dealt with it in serious terms)
Yes i agree with you, if the source signal is only 25 watts, it would have issues getting to its location.

I'm not an expert on satellite TV like yourself. I have sold and installed them myself. Even the old C-band ones. I've had to deal with rf transmitters, receivers with very low SNR and antennas with enough gain and correct E-field for many years. I know the atmosphere resistance is something you have to consider too. I've read that the GPS satellite rf amps are around 80 Watts and the engineers say they actually find find it hard to believe they work with such low power.  I'm not saying satellites don't exist, I'm simply saying everything may not be working like they tell us. If I had never worked in electronics, i wouldn't think a thing about it.
"During times of universal deceit, telling the truth becomes a revolutionary act."
                              George Orwell

Re: How do flat earthers explain satellite radio?
« Reply #89 on: March 23, 2015, 04:19:31 PM »
I don't get all this debate about satellites. Stratellites exists and they are responsible for anything satellite based.

What evidence do you have for the existence of stratellites?
Sceptimatic is a proven liar - he claims to have authored several books but won't reveal their names.