The Conclusive Categorical Conspiracy Compendium

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GeoGuy

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« Reply #120 on: December 30, 2006, 04:31:10 PM »
Quote from: "Yeah, sure..."

Would be great as well

Try Samuel Rowbotham's Earth not a Globe.

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Dioptimus Drime

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« Reply #121 on: December 30, 2006, 06:02:45 PM »
Quote from: "Yeah, sure..."
No, the point is: If the earh is a globe it can't be flat. And the earth is a globe. If you want to doubt that, you need something that shows that it isn't. Explanations how it could be another shape are worth n o t h i n g.

I disagree. There are plenty of doubts on either side of the argument. The Round Earth Theory, however, relies on a completely biased argument, running on theories that have just been assumed to be correct for hundreds of years without re-tests. The Flat Earth Theory relies more on a zetetic outlook, discarding all previous assumptions and testing results with an unbiased objectivism.


~D-Draw

Re: The Conclusive Categorical Conspiracy Compendium
« Reply #122 on: December 30, 2006, 06:21:30 PM »
Quote from: "DiegoDraw"
The Conclusive Categorical Conspiracy Compendium
Honestly, by the way it seems on TV, those things are so unstable, no one would ever EVER doubt that someone died while in space due to some random accident (add a bunch of jargon and you've got an incredibly convincing reason for death).


The way it seems on TV- TV which is controlled by the nasty, nasty government. You trust them on this I take it?

 (add a bunch of jargon and you've got an incredibly convincing reason for death)-  Just because you do not understand something so complex as the varying degrees of danger involved with space travel, you can't write it off as 'a bunch of jargon'.

You are actually making me physically sick due to your rather overwhwlming ignorance. Please stop hindering the development of the intellectual world.

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Dioptimus Drime

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Re: The Conclusive Categorical Conspiracy Compendium
« Reply #123 on: December 30, 2006, 06:54:02 PM »
Quote from: "Explain Electric"
The way it seems on TV- TV which is controlled by the nasty, nasty government. You trust them on this I take it?

Who ever said that anyone involved with the conspiracy has ever touched a television in their life? Or is it that you just prefer to come off as a pretentious douche.

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(add a bunch of jargon and you've got an incredibly convincing reason for death)-  Just because you do not understand something so complex as the varying degrees of danger involved with space travel, you can't write it off as 'a bunch of jargon'.

I don't know if you know what jargon means. Any sort of esoteric phrase can be considered jargon if the general populous has a hard time comprehending it. Professional jargon is jargon, regardless of who understands it and who doesn't. Nevertheless, I understand the danger involved with space travel, and I also understand that this is absolutely why we don't do it. ;)


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You are actually making me physically sick due to your rather overwhwlming ignorance. Please stop hindering the development of the intellectual world.

You're so conceitedly arrogant, I almost felt like smiling, but I decided to refrain, because it would waste valuble time and energy that I could devote to developing my own theories (which truthfully aren't as different as you think), rather than presuming that everything everybody has ever told me is correct without further study.

~D-Draw

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« Reply #124 on: December 31, 2006, 04:11:50 AM »
Congratulations for the most ridiculous but- still-serious thread in a long time.
quot;Earth is flat because there is a conspiracy, and there is a conspiracy because the Earth is flat" - Makes sense, duh.

http://theflatearthsociety.org/forum/index.php?topic=2955.0

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« Reply #125 on: January 23, 2007, 08:19:53 AM »
Quote from: "EnragedPenguin"
Rr332211, gravity has nothing to do with how fast Earth is moving, it all depends on Earth's acceleration. If you jump up into the air, the gap between you and the ground will close at an increasing rate of 9.8m/s^2. Every time you jump. No matter how many times you jump.


ROFL

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Masterchef

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« Reply #126 on: January 23, 2007, 08:21:04 AM »
Quote from: "daniel_is_not_flat"
ROFL

Do you disagree?

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« Reply #127 on: January 23, 2007, 08:24:01 AM »
Quote from: Masterchief2219
Quote from: "daniel_is_not_flat"

Quote from: "daniel_is_not_flat"
Quote from: "EnragedPenguin"
Rr332211, gravity has nothing to do with how fast Earth is moving, it all depends on Earth's acceleration. If you jump up into the air, the gap between you and the ground will close at an increasing rate of 9.8m/s^2. Every time you jump. No matter how many times you jump.

ROFL

Do you disagree?


no, i have finally found the universal truth and i started to laugh uncontrollably.

i just wish you could see it too man.

Re: The Conclusive Categorical Conspiracy Compendium
« Reply #128 on: February 06, 2007, 10:52:41 PM »
Quote from: "DiegoDraw"

How Does The Conspiracy Benefit?

This is not easily answered, but I've taken some insight into this and made some estimates on how the conspiracy could be making money:

Government Paychecks:
It's very possible that the conspiracy runs by just sucking money out of the government that they are underneath. Seeing as the head honchos in those governments don't have to know about the conspiracy, it'd be pretty easy to take money from the government. Also, even if the leaders DID know, it's tax money that's going into the space exploration research, so really, they'd still be pulling profit. Basically, if you chose to believe this option, the leaders of the conspiracy are taking tax money and getting filthy stinking rich off of it. Sounds like a motive to me.  

So, are the current and past "top three" of NASA stinking rich? How about their russian and chinese counterparts? How they could cover up for decades that they are stinking rich, and at the same time enjoy the benefits? Secret holiday oasis for them and their families in the heavily guarded Antarctica?

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Display of Power:
Some people are control freaks. Maybe they get a rush from showing that they can change everyone's mind about the true shape of the Earth.

Showing to who? To the couple of dozen other ppl that are in it too? Must be a real rush.

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Embarrassment:
So, the government messed up at a really bad time to mess up, and they've been pooling all of the already-angry tax-payers' money into research that eventually led to a less-than-exciting discovery: The Earth is flat. Everyone was wrong. Millions (probably billions) of dollars of money that didn't really belong to them had been basically tossed down the drain for research of the round Earth, when, in fact it was flat. So, instead of angering people and possibly even sparking a revolt of some sort, they made up some stuff. And you know how lies tend to roll and get bigger and bigger until they're inescapable? I'd say a worldwide conspiracy is that concept...to the max.

They suddenly found out that Earth is actually flat, and thought "this is a less-than-exciting discovery"? Rrright... how many scientists would cover up a finding that would basically guarantee a Nobel prize and pretty much change the world forever?

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Recruitment/Faithfulness:
Similar to the one above. Maybe the future-conspirators were ashamed that they hadn't reached out to space yet, and they felt that the people were getting hasty and impatient with them, so they decided to say they did it, and qualm the welling resentment of them, so they could ACTUALLY send people into space on a later date, without a bunch of morons knocking on their doorstep asking when they would be done with their space ship.

This part is actually plausible, but it applies to RE as well.

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Unfortunately, they later realized that they were wrong the whole time, and therefore had to uphold the conspiracy, lest they be accused of lying, and therefore reverting the resentment to its original state.

That's actually just a repeat of the "Embarrassment" reasoning...

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As you can see, the conspiracy is not only logical, but it's, in its own way, actually quite plausible. With all of these concepts in your face, it's hard to refute AT LEAST the possibility of a conspiracy covering up the shape of the Earth.


Actually, with these concepts it's not hard at all to refute the possibility of a conspiracy of this type. The motives alone would be sub-par even for a b-movie. No wonder there hasn't been a movie about the FE conspiracy; it's too ridiculous even for Hollywood. :lol:
hen one person suffers from a delusion it is called insanity. When many people suffer from a delusion it is called conspiracy.

The Conclusive Categorical Conspiracy Compendium
« Reply #129 on: February 07, 2007, 12:51:49 PM »
Educated guessing, totally conclusive. I'm convinced.

--Ticky
sarcasm is my friend, we live together...
ave fun, you have been warned.

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Dioptimus Drime

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Re: The Conclusive Categorical Conspiracy Compendium
« Reply #130 on: February 07, 2007, 11:08:39 PM »
Quote from: "Grigori Rasputin"
So, are the current and past "top three" of NASA stinking rich? How about their russian and chinese counterparts? How they could cover up for decades that they are stinking rich, and at the same time enjoy the benefits? Secret holiday oasis for them and their families in the heavily guarded Antarctica?

Yup. And I guess they're just good about not spending their money all in one place.


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Showing to who? To the couple of dozen other ppl that are in it too? Must be a real rush.

Themselves. There are plenty of psychological theories which tell that control of anything leads to pleasure (even bowels...Freud is kind of a weirdo), even if it's completely unimportant. How about controlling the entire world population? It's like anal-retentiveness on crack, for God's sake.



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They suddenly found out that Earth is actually flat, and thought "this is a less-than-exciting discovery"? Rrright... how many scientists would cover up a finding that would basically guarantee a Nobel prize and pretty much change the world forever?

Plenty, seeing as they wouldn't get the prize because they were so hard-set on the fact that the Earth was round. Not to mention never did I say it was just one of these motives. Actually, if this motive is one of them, it's probably combined with all the others.



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That's actually just a repeat of the "Embarrassment" reasoning...


Basically.


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Actually, with these concepts it's not hard at all to refute the possibility of a conspiracy of this type. The motives alone would be sub-par even for a b-movie. No wonder there hasn't been a movie about the FE conspiracy; it's too ridiculous even for Hollywood. :lol:


What does the entertainment-value of a theory have to do with its validity? :?

~D-Draw

The Conclusive Categorical Conspiracy Compendium
« Reply #131 on: February 07, 2007, 11:49:44 PM »
uh, I'm a round earther through and through, and as much as I disagree with FE theory, don't try and 'ruin' it with false information. No one knows what causes gravity. The closest theory is  curvature of space, but even then its not very concrete yet. Sum it up? no one knows

Re: The Conclusive Categorical Conspiracy Compendium
« Reply #132 on: February 08, 2007, 12:25:29 AM »
Quote from: "DiegoDraw"
I guess they're just good about not spending their money all in one place.

:lol:

Hmm... I have a billion dollars, but I must appear to have only a normal income of a NASA executive... hey, I got it, I'll just make sure I won't buy my next Ferrari from the same town I bought my Lamborghini from. Brilliant! :D

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What does the entertainment-value of a theory have to do with its validity? :?


Nothing. Just tried to point out how ridiculous your claims sound to anyone who has a clue.
hen one person suffers from a delusion it is called insanity. When many people suffer from a delusion it is called conspiracy.

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BOGWarrior89

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Re: The Conclusive Categorical Conspiracy Compendium
« Reply #133 on: February 08, 2007, 12:34:57 AM »
Quote from: "Grigori Rasputin"

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What does the entertainment-value of a theory have to do with its validity? :?


Nothing. Just tried to point out how ridiculous your claims sound to anyone who has a clue.


Logic doesn't judge based on ridiculousness.

The Conclusive Categorical Conspiracy Compendium
« Reply #134 on: February 08, 2007, 08:07:37 AM »
No offense but this is by far the dumbest thing I have ever seen. When you are making a conspiracy theory (bubuubu the world is flat) you need real, solid evidence to prove the common ideology wrong. You guys have none of that though.

 So let me get this straight... the world is flat, the government knows about it. The Earth is the center of the universe and the sun is directly on top of it, only thousands of miles away? Where is the proof? Where is the proof that decades of research and discovery by NASA and other countries space programs, scientists and astronomers around the world are all wrong? Do you have any answer besides "oh its all fake LOLZ".

 The government is spending billions of dollars to keep this thing a secret because.... they're embarrassed about being wrong? Are you kidding? And what... every single nation in the world felt the same way and decided to band together to form an alliance to keep the world from knowing the awful truth that the world is flat? If they can come together for such a trivial, stupid cause like that then why do we have wars? Oh wait let me guess, just for show huh? I'd love to see one of you guys go to the house of a widow or parent of someone who died in Iraq and tell them "your loved one died in a fake war to cover up the fact that the world is flat." Seems whoever brainstormed this piece of **** decided to toss logic to the wind.

 My grandmother is in the Army, her and her fiance sailed around the world 3 years ago. So... I guess she is lying, and at some point armed guards made them turn around and go back the other way? How much is she getting paid now to keep her mouth shut? How many people have to be working on this thing, patrolling the seas, skies and land at all time making sure an entire continent of ice around the entire world is never seen? Also, if the sun is centered above us, why do the seasons change? If it's always in one spot, why would winter and summer happen? Why does nightfall come? Why not a full moon every single night? Where are the facts backing all of this up?

 About this huge wall of ice surrounding the world... even if our governments worldwide formed some sort of alliance (we'll call it Icewall Defense Initiative Of The Sovereignty ... or IDIOTS for short) how far back to the IDIOTS go? Do you have solid proof of these IDIOTS existing in the past? Exactly when did the IDIOTS come about? Was Nostradamus one of the IDIOTS? How did past civilizations have the technology to be IDIOTS? How did the IDIOTS prevent any sort of proof of this ice wall fro ever coming out? Furthermore why would the IDIOTS even be so obsessed about it? Our current office administration has admitted to being wrong about Iraq and WMD. Why would these IDIOTS be so uptight over the globe? Do the IDIOTS have a website? Who is the top member of the IDIOTS?

 We who believe the Earth is round have loads of evidence and proof to back us up. If you are trying to convince people otherwise you need strong facts and strong evidence and you have neither. Is this a joke site or something? You're worse than all of the 9/11 nutjobs, but hey, at least they try to get scholars and qualified people on their side.

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Rick_James

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« Reply #135 on: February 08, 2007, 01:36:20 PM »
Quote from: "ULTIMA-W"
When you are making a conspiracy theory  you need real, solid evidence to prove the common ideology wrong. You guys have none of that though.



 :shock:

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« Reply #136 on: February 08, 2007, 05:25:12 PM »
Quote from: "Rick_James"
Quote from: "ULTIMA-W"
When you are making a conspiracy theory  you need real, solid evidence to prove the common ideology wrong. You guys have none of that though.



 :shock:


 Instead of just posting a smily or a link to your "FAQ" filled with excuses, where is some scientific evidence? Got any pics of this ice wall besides random pics of ice in Antarctica? Got any pics of this army of guards in action on the 150ft high wall? Any credible astronomers publish articles agreeing with you? ANY EVIDENCE WHATSOEVER  :lol:

 bububuub read the faq  :cry:

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Rick_James

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« Reply #137 on: February 08, 2007, 05:57:25 PM »
How did you get "Read the FAQ" out of " :shock: "?

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« Reply #138 on: February 08, 2007, 06:15:01 PM »
Why ask me a question if you're just going to delete the answer?  :lol:

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Rick_James

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« Reply #139 on: February 08, 2007, 06:16:09 PM »
Quote from: "ULTIMA-W"
Why ask me a question if you're just going to delete the answer?  :lol:


What makes you think I'd delete the answer? (providing it wasn't inappropriate or offensive [as stated in the forum rules])

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Dioptimus Drime

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« Reply #140 on: February 08, 2007, 06:18:20 PM »
For your information, I wasn't trying to "prove" the conspiracy with this thread. Obviously, that would be impossible to do with the information given. HOWEVER, what I WAS trying to to was to prove the PLAUSIBILITY of a conspiracy. I've shown that the idea of a conspiracy hiding the flat Earth is POSSIBLE, not TRUE.


~D-Draw

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persona

The Conclusive Categorical Conspiracy Compendium
« Reply #141 on: February 16, 2007, 02:41:35 PM »
Hi. I just found this site and I'm curious as to why you believe what you do. I haven't read the entire thread (that would take hours), but I do have one question: If money is a factor in the conspiracy, if the people who are in charge of the conspiracy have so much power that they can remove money from the government without anyone noticing (as is stated above), why do they need to go to the trouble of creating a conspiracy? Why not let everyone know the world is flat and still take money without their noticing? It's not as though the world being round is a distraction, since everyone takes it for granted.

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Marcis

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« Reply #142 on: February 17, 2007, 02:28:43 AM »
Just a few things I was curious about.

You say that the after the ice wall is space ie a vacuum?

When ice is placed in a vacuum it undergoes a change known as 'outgassing'. All materials, solid or liquid, have a small vapour pressure, and their outgassing becomes important when the vacuum pressure falls below this vapour pressure. Solids and liquids sublime into gasses.

So the wall would need atmosphere on the other side to keep from being boiled away very very quickly.

This leaves the necessity for the ice wall to almost nothing. Besides the fact that the Guards would never be able to survive for extended amounts of time on the top of the wall due to nil/low atmospheric.

You ask for a definition of gravity

Mass curves space-time. This curvature pulls more mass into it. Imagine a ball rolling on the inside of a bowl. If you get the speed and angle right the ball will 'orbit' inside the bowl. If something does not orbit, it falls to the bottom of the bowl.

You assume a moving mass going at 1g would act like gravity.

If there was no gravity, then by rights, the movement of the plane at 1g would mean everything on the plane would be moving at that same speed. Meaning? There would be no gravity sensation.

The only way to achieve 'gravity' in your scenario is to have a constant acceleration. That in itself would mean that we would be gaining speed at 10m/s/s. If I took into account the biblical 6000 years of the universe we would be moving at approximately 688746240000000m/s by now and growing. Plus the rest of the universe would have to be moving at that exact speed to make up for that.

The money that could be gained from the conspiracy

Your assumptions of the manpower are naive at best. What about every astrologer on the planet? What about every University with a Physics Professor in it? What about the adventure junkies in their boats going around the world. How do you explain their seeming ability to move from one side of the plane to the other in a shorter span than is available by your theory?

I would place the conspiracy at the level of the hundreds of thousands of people required to pull something of this scale off.

Who created the plane and its 'spot-light' for a sun and moon and made them have real effects on the plane?

Why make a moon that isnt there yet have its gravity affect the tides somehow? That just adds to the complexity.


Look people, conspiracy's aside, we need to look at one fact.

Occam's/Ockham's Razor

"All things being equal, the simplest solution tends to be the best one."

The need for all of the extra touches required to pull this off makes it a very complex engine.

Hence its probability is very low, to the point of being infinitesmally improbable.

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TheEngineer

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« Reply #143 on: February 17, 2007, 06:47:19 AM »
Quote from: "Marcis"

So the wall would need atmosphere on the other side to keep from being boiled away very very quickly.

Then I guess it's a good thing it's made of rock.
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You ask for a definition of gravity

No, we ask for the cause, the mechanism, for gravity.
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You assume a moving mass going at 1g would act like gravity.

If there was no gravity, then by rights, the movement of the plane at 1g would mean everything on the plane would be moving at that same speed.

Nice to see you know what 1g is.
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Meaning? There would be no gravity sensation.

The only way to achieve 'gravity' in your scenario is to have a constant acceleration. That in itself would mean that we would be gaining speed at 10m/s/s.

That's why we say the earth is accelerating at 1g.
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If I took into account the biblical 6000 years of the universe we would be moving at approximately 688746240000000m/s by now and growing.

What?  That's faster then light.  That's not even possible.  You should read up on this thing called Relativity.
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"All things being equal, the simplest solution tends to be the best one."

All things are not equal, so Occam's Razor does not apply.


"I haven't been wrong since 1961, when I thought I made a mistake."
        -- Bob Hudson

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Marcis

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« Reply #144 on: February 17, 2007, 12:40:48 PM »
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If I took into account the biblical 6000 years of the universe we would be moving at approximately 688746240000000m/s by now and growing.

What?  That's faster then light.  That's not even possible.  You should read up on this thing called Relativity.


The impossibility of it was what I was trying to show.

The constant acceleration would fail at the speed of light as nothing can provide enough power to cross the infinite plane required.

Remembering that Relativity is tied directly into our Theory of Gravity, I assumed you ignored it and went for the big numbers.

Just exactly what parts of Einsteinian Science are you using and ignoring?

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Tom Bishop

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« Reply #145 on: February 17, 2007, 12:44:42 PM »
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The constant acceleration would fail at the speed of light as nothing can provide enough power to cross the infinite plane required.


Nope. The accelerating earth will continue to approach the speed of light without reaching it. Take a few basic Physics courses at your local community college before posting here again.

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Marcis

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« Reply #146 on: February 17, 2007, 01:14:16 PM »
Quote from: "Tom Bishop"
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The constant acceleration would fail at the speed of light as nothing can provide enough power to cross the infinite plane required.


Nope. The accelerating earth will continue to approach the speed of light without reaching it. Take a few basic Physics courses at your local community college before posting here again.


Lol!

To continue 'accelerating' your need to go faster is prevalent. The speed of light isn't a moving scale that you can never reach, its a constant that cannot be reached because of the massive amounts of energy required.

Besides, we have already figured that Relativity cannot exist because Gravity doesnt, so crossing the speed of light threshold shouldn't be a problem.

(Add edit)

Speed of light = 299,792,458m/s
Acceleration needed = 9.8m/s/s

So every second it needs to move 9.8m faster than the previous second. Why dont you go take a few lessons before making assumptions?
(B.Phy, UTAS)

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« Reply #147 on: February 17, 2007, 01:16:23 PM »
Quote from: "Tom Bishop"
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The constant acceleration would fail at the speed of light as nothing can provide enough power to cross the infinite plane required.


Nope. The accelerating earth will continue to approach the speed of light without reaching it. Take a few basic Physics courses at your local community college before posting here again.


Basic physics classes teach nothing about flat earth theories, sorry.

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BOGWarrior89

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« Reply #148 on: February 17, 2007, 01:44:18 PM »
Quote from: "Marcis"
Quote from: "Tom Bishop"
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The constant acceleration would fail at the speed of light as nothing can provide enough power to cross the infinite plane required.


Nope. The accelerating earth will continue to approach the speed of light without reaching it. Take a few basic Physics courses at your local community college before posting here again.


Lol!

To continue 'accelerating' your need to go faster is prevalent. The speed of light isn't a moving scale that you can never reach, its a constant that cannot be reached because of the massive amounts of energy required.

Besides, we have already figured that Relativity cannot exist because Gravity doesnt, so crossing the speed of light threshold shouldn't be a problem.

(Add edit)

Speed of light = 299,792,458m/s
Acceleration needed = 9.8m/s/s

So every second it needs to move 9.8m faster than the previous second. Why dont you go take a few lessons before making assumptions?
(B.Phy, UTAS)


OMFG You idiots seriously need to stop using Galilean velocity transformations near the speed of light.  Use Lorentz like the rest of us.

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Marcis

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« Reply #149 on: February 17, 2007, 02:07:34 PM »
Quote from: "BOGWarrior89"
Quote from: "Marcis"
Quote from: "Tom Bishop"
Quote
The constant acceleration would fail at the speed of light as nothing can provide enough power to cross the infinite plane required.


Nope. The accelerating earth will continue to approach the speed of light without reaching it. Take a few basic Physics courses at your local community college before posting here again.


Lol!

To continue 'accelerating' your need to go faster is prevalent. The speed of light isn't a moving scale that you can never reach, its a constant that cannot be reached because of the massive amounts of energy required.

Besides, we have already figured that Relativity cannot exist because Gravity doesnt, so crossing the speed of light threshold shouldn't be a problem.

(Add edit)

Speed of light = 299,792,458m/s
Acceleration needed = 9.8m/s/s

So every second it needs to move 9.8m faster than the previous second. Why dont you go take a few lessons before making assumptions?
(B.Phy, UTAS)


OMFG You idiots seriously need to stop using Galilean velocity transformations near the speed of light.  Use Lorentz like the rest of us.


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Matter becomes more massive as it accelerates, and at the speed of light, an object would have infinite mass.
To accelerate an object of non-zero rest mass to c would require infinite time with any finite acceleration, or infinite acceleration for a finite amount of time
Either way, such acceleration requires infinite energy. Going beyond the speed of light in a homogeneous space would hence require more than infinite energy, which is not a sensible notion.


Remind me again where I am using Galilean Transformations again?